you think the banjo series was better then super mario 64? ok well you are entitled to your opinion but to me and lots of other people that is complete crap. Mario 64 was revolutionary for moe then just one reason not becaus eit was the first fully 3D platform but becayse it was fun and challenging and just a overal great game. The DS one is also awesome and they did a great job putting that on the DS.

The 32bit (which is actually running at 16.78MHz) CPU clock of the GBA doesn' t, and never did mean that the games would look like the Playstation. Only ill educated people would think that, since the Playstation ran at 33.87MHz . The difference in the hardware is the amount of RAM available in each unit, with 2MB in the Playstation and 32KB onboard, 256KB external for the GBA.

And the PSP is 128bit and clocks in at 333MHz.

Bajoe Tooie, the better of the 2, was nowhere near as good as Mario 64, which incidently is still considered by many to be the finest example of a platform game yet. But my point was that there wasn' t and isn' t a platform game on any Sony hardware that is as good.

Timesplitters 3 is good, the other 2 weren' t.

Sony haven' t GIVEN us anything worthwhile other tha the hardware. What really great 1st party titles other than; God of War, ICO, Shadows of the Colossus and GT3/4 have Sony GIVEN us?! They would be nowhere without 3rd party developer support, so you should be praising the devlopers of your favourite games for making things what they are. Sure PS2 is what they are running on, but although running at less power Dreamcast games looked nicer (clearer) due to the consoles full screen anti-aliasing and better light sourcing.

You want FPS' s?! Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 were released on DC before PS2.

I always wished that Sega and Nintendo would merge and crush the opposition...

if u guys want some cool original games, look into IGF (Independent Games Festival) Compilation. I' ve seen some shows on TV and read and watched trailers of some of the games of this year and last year and I have to say I' m really impressed.

Unreal Tournament on PS2 is soooooo bad. You get like 5 fps when you play 2 player split screen. Runs smoother on Dreamcast when you play 4 player split screen.

NO platform game is better than Super Mario 64, with the only game coming close being the DS version. No RPG series is better than FF with if i' m correct started life on Nintendo hardware, with the only thing coming close being Zelda games.

Any 2D mario game is better for me - but when it comes to 3D Banjo games were much closer than Mario DS

They' ve relied on exclusive 3rd party support to be succesful, and now they have lost several key franchises to Microsoft

You' re going to far with it - they don' t need MArio and Crew , they have MGS and other games like that , and still they didn' t loose anyone to MS for sure.

It' s too early to tell how things will go, but slating Sega and Nintendo like that wasn' t called for.

More than that it was lame and noobish :)

i didn' t say nintendo was a bad company, of course they are genius but sometimes they make stupid decisions , decisions that crash everything...

Is it just me or do you sound silly? :)

outrun haha i enjoyed wipeout more than outrun

Hey I' m not the cure for your ignorance (outrun 2 has good reviews and some like me - enjoy it a lot), but what I meant is that Timesplitters is on all 3 systems.That kind of makes you silly again doesn' t it?

i am definately a harcore gamers, and take it for granted

That' s what you wrote lately :" yesterday i had the urge to throw my controler out of the window, a boss killed me 7 times and i had to restart from a saving a point that is in a town!!! yes no saving in a dungeon!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr developers when you want me to kill you !!!" - Dragon Quest 8-

Yeah Hardcore to the bone - I didn' t die even once and I don' t go screaming I' m HC on forums :)

you say sony is all about lies , but how about nintendo when hey claimed that gameboy advanced was 32bits, well may be , but people when they heared 32 bits, they expected psone graphics

Oh please hahaha you' re killing me man please stop heheh

i am definately a harcore gamers, and take it for granted , i played so many games , sure a lot more than you have experienced in your whole life , why i say so ??

YES I agree - " WHY SAY SO ?"
I mean that just proves how right he is treating you like a n00by little fellow.You don' t know him so how do you know that?

Oh that' s simple - YOU DON' T.

And bad English is worse that 1337 speak! It makes you sound about 12...

Actually this type of comments won' t make you many friends here - many people here use english as their second or third language and since it is an international forum people tend to respect that.

Abasoufiane - even though I said that ,It really is hard at times to understand what you mean - you should check your posts after you write them - that' s what I do.

They would be nowhere without 3rd party developer support, so you should be praising the devlopers of your favourite games for making things what they are

But they buy exclusives for their gamers and it doesn' t matter if they made them themselves.Actually that means they are really smart - they just sit back and relax and make money while 3rd party rocks the stage and with great results

Sony haven' t GIVEN us anything worthwhile other tha the hardware.

No that' s the funny part - the hardware they gave us is not worth anything - thank god some developers can use magic to make fantastic games for it.

And FPP games don' t need incredible graphics to be fun - killzone looks very nice but has low gameplay and that' s it.

you think the banjo series was better then super mario 64? ok well you are entitled to your opinion

I thought : yeah that' s cool - he respects other guys opinion and then ...

but to me and lots of other people that is complete crap

nice :) How many people are there with you phoenix? :)

I always wished that Sega and Nintendo would merge and crush the opposition...

I know what you mean ...

Ok, i appologise about the bad english is worse than 1337 speak comment, i was out of line.

The thing about Sony is that they' re marketable, and since it' s not the developers opinion that counts when it comes to exclusive games, it' s the publishers, and as we all saw with Dreamcast, it' s all about making money.

But, it' s going to be different this time since Microsoft are pushing for more and more exclusive games and developers really don' t want to be tied to just one format because of Revolution..

Ang MGS games appeared on Gamecube and Xbox too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah loco, i know what you mean about Unreal Tournament on PS2. Dreamcast was a really good piece of hardware. It was easy to develop for, had a decent pad, but Sega lacked the marketability that Sony had.

Gimme Shenmue Online for 360!

But, it' s going to be different this time since Microsoft are pushing for more and more exclusive games and developers really don' t want to be tied to just one format because of Revolution..

Ang MGS games appeared on Gamecube and Xbox too.

It actually is great how many great games are on schedule for 360 - It' s impossible to disagree.

However I remember waiting for many " Huge" games on Xbox and being dissapointed playing them. (Jade Empire , KOTOR2 ,Halo 2 - not as much as they hyped for IMHO,FORZA,FarCry).

On the other hand some silent games just kicked my ass - Half-Life2 (not that silent but not really hyped for Xbox) , Outrun 2 ( Yeah ,I know that many of you don' t get it) , OTOGI 2 , Doom3 (maybe this one wasn' t that silent after all) , Splinter Cell 3 ,Rallisport challenge 2 and so much more :)

Idon' t want Shenmue Online - not untill Shenmue 3 lands on Next Gen with Shen 1 and 2 included with remade graphics and quick load times (preferably for Revolution with some insanely cool ideas)


About MGS - same goes for GTA , but since both games appeared on other systems after a long time it kind of makes them time exclusives and people see it as " A PS2 game on Xbox" .

But yes you' re 100% right I have to agree.

I' m going to comment pretty much everything being said in this thread so this might be long:
I have to agree that there is a lot of hatred towards Sony in these forums, especially from a small group of individuals who keep saying the same thing over and over again in different threads. I can understand if you dislike some of the decisions Sony has made as a company but this dislike has turned into some crazy, hateful anti-Sony attitude where Sony takes the blame for every wrong step in the industry. The motivations for these accusations are often vague, based on rumours on unfinished hardware and personal preferences being manipulated to seem as general opinion.
Some poeple already hates the PS3 to the fullest, a product that does not yet exist, because of their hatred towards Sony as a company. May I remind you that you can like the PS3 without having to like Sony. Sonys bad mistakes in the past is being used as a manipulative tool to show that Sonys upcoming product sucks, and thereby Microsoft fans and supporters can easily turn the minds of the readers in this forum to buy the 360 instead of the PS3even though we do not know anything about PS3. Also, some people show no will to change their opinions even if the PS3 would turn out to be good. I' ve read comments that clearly show that people doesn' t want the PS3 to be as good as what the E3 trailers would give you the idea off. I think it' s very bad to have that kind of hopes for the future. They' d rather have failing hardware distributed, than a new great console, just for the purpose of showing how bad Sony is.
Someone said Nintendo was No. 1 in the aspect of profit. Well, for your information, what profit a company makes is not related to the quality and appreciation of the companys products. Sony isn' t making as much money as Nintendo (?) but their products are in the end more appreciated by the general public since they sell larger numbers. Large sales means expannding the industry and making it grow. This is good not only for Sony but other companies as well.
Saying the PS2s library of games is generic or bad shows that you haven' t been researching enough. This is not about personal preference, some games are different enough to be called innovative and such, and some are not. The PS2 clearly has got a lot of games that can be called innovative, ground-breaking and such.
If you think Shenmue was technically more advanced than GTA3 I beg you to reconsider. In design and looks, Shenmue appeared to be visually´better but GTA has a lot more things going on in large areas without major slowdowns.
Personally, I never liked Mario64 (what' s so special?). What I did like was Crash Bandicoot (I' ll never forget the first time I saw it) and Sonic adventure.
People says that Sony has no/little good 1st party titles. This is a strange opinion since MS doesn' t have that many either. What, Halo and PGR? What else? Besides, Sony is a hardware company unlike MS and Nintendo who base half/most of their efforts on software.
Another thing, being a hardcore gamer has nothing to do with skill, or lack of skill in certain games.

I love Shenmue man, but Yu Suzuki said he wanted to develop specifically on the harware with the most horsepower and called Revolution toylike.

Taken form IGN' s ' Japan' s Biggest Developers Comment on 2006' article...

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/678/678280p1.aspx

Which sucks really because Revolution would lend itself to the 3rd part of the story. Actually Gangsta, will it end at 3? I heard it went to 6 or so...

Gangsta you should be a lawyer or something

majikdragon, there is a misunderstanding between us, or may be you do that in purpose but

No RPG series is better than FF with if i' m correct started life on Nintendo hardware, with the only thing coming close being Zelda games.

what' s your point ?? when i say sony , i' m not talking about the developer , i' m talking as a company that owns ps2, so i don' t see the meaning of your comment because i didn' t say otherwise, what i said is that sony (ps2) has final fantasy while the others don' t , if you understood my point, you' re not going to say that there is a final fantasy on GBA. keep handhelds consoles out of this.

i didn' t say nintendo was a bad company, of course they are genius but sometimes they make stupid decisions , decisions that crash everything

1) the wrong storage for games
2) not enough mature games (things have changed recently because they trying to correct their mistakes)

outrun haha i enjoyed wipeout more than outrun

my point was, outrun isn' t a major racing game to compare it to GT4 or forza, ok this is arcad the others are simulation and so you don' t have to list outrun in the first place, the game got 8.2 on gamespot, and that' s not a game to remember, i enjoyed it for few hours because i owned the original outrun... the game get really boring after. if it wasn' t boring and if it was fun it' ll get about the same score as burnout scored, which of course is impossible.

That' s what you wrote lately :" yesterday i had the urge to throw my controler out of the window, a boss killed me 7 times and i had to restart from a saving a point that is in a town!!! yes no saving in a dungeon!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr developers when you want me to kill you !!!" - Dragon Quest 8-

and that' s what shows that i' m not a hardcore gamer a lot of people complain in this forum about games they play, so what they are no hardcore gamers ?? or did you say that just because i " died" 7 times... i believe that if i had this difficulty , that' s because i didn' t fight enough before to have enough exeperience, i have a life as well, i' m during exams and shit , and i was playing Resident evil 4 simultaniously, after all you comment has nothing to do with hardcore gamer, you can lack a skill in certain area or a game or type of game so what???

you say sony is all about lies , but how about nintendo when they claimed that gameboy advanced was 32bits, well may be , but people when they heared 32 bits, they expected psone graphics

they fooled me and fooled a lot of my friends , at the time i didn' t have even internet, i was reading magazines and on teh first page it was " the first handheld 32 bits!!!" then articles that will talk about final fantasy in GBA with psone quality, or you see CG and other stuff, people start dreaming.... nintendo didn' t lie of course but they fooled us, they fooled gamers who don' t know about hardware, and at the time what i considered as many many gamers around the world is " bits" , do you really think that most people will go to see the cpu frequency come on !!!! genesis was 16bits , and when sony released psone , it dodn' t really state the cpu requency in the first page, what it stated is " 32 bits" , now you understand ???

YES I agree - " WHY SAY SO ?"
I mean that just proves how right he is treating you like a n00by little fellow.You don' t know him so how do you know that?

Oh that' s simple - YOU DON' T.

i was sure you going to have an answer like this one, THIS IS NOT FOR BRAGING but to make my point, as you don' t know me , i don' t have to show up, majikdragon is from england , the probability of him having a moded xbox, ps2, psone, PC games, and play DC copies is very low... that made me own a huuuuuuuge amount of games, and try so many games just to have a look at them+ i beat the few exclusive games on gamecube except for RPG' s + i played all great games on N64 and beat 80% of them + i owned genesis and snes and i played almost all their major great games + the huge amount of crap games at the time + nes or family cmp + spectrum and lately emulation to play some old games i missed.... will all this make me a hardcore gamer ?? not necesseraly but at least it ' ll give you idea that i have a very good exeprience in video games and i know most of the time when the game sucks and when it doesn' t.... .... anyway think whatever you like about me , i just made sure my point is clear.

i agree definatly with ginijirou, if i decided to write my first post that' s because there are a lot of sony haters although they don' t admit it , they are all into " stereotypes" and repeating the same thing over and over again. sad but true.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

Which sucks really because Revolution would lend itself to the 3rd part of the story. Actually Gangsta, will it end at 3? I heard it went to 6 or so...

From what I understand, the story has a bunch of episodes (probably around 6) but they felt that it was becoming a bit drawn out and wanted to tie it all up in the 3rd release.

Someone correct me if I' m wrong.

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

They' d rather have failing hardware distributed, than a new great console, just for the purpose of showing how bad Sony is.

Sad huh? Yeah, I was kinda like that too, with the PS2. I can be honest about it. I probably still wouldn' t have it if my girlfriend didn' t buy it for me. But then I would' ve missed out on Rumble Roses, God of War, and Guitar Hero! Perish the thought! Can' t forget about Final Fantasy X, either! I' d say it' s been worth it. Honestly, the only system I could' ve done without was the Cube.

Man this is getting so stupid...

I DON' T HATE SONY! If i did then i wouldn' t keep buying their bloody products would i?!

My comments are directed towards Sony' s appraoch to PS3, and even developers are getting frustrated with Sony at the moment. Sony DO have some great 1st party titles, but 1st party titles on other consoles are of a higher caliber.

Sony' s reliance on 3rd party exclusivity during the PS2' s lifespan could easily be their downfall with regard to PS3 since they are already losing ground to the competition (Final Fantasy 12 on 360, Square Enix hinting at developing for multiple platforms, Konami developing for 360 and Kojima talking about doing so...). The reasons for owning a PS2 won' t carry forward and apply to the PS3.

Personally i' m looking forward to Blue Dragon more than i am the next Final Fantasy game! Oh look, it' s by the guy who created Final Fantasy and is 360 exclusive...huh!

I' m not attacking PS2' s catalogue, that would be rediculous. But i' d rather have a few really high quality titles than loads and loads of watered down clones any day of the week!

This thread is supposed to be about PS3' s price. Some people will say yes and some will say no, and both sides will explain why. Personally i think that the much speculated $500 price tag would be way too high, especially when many developers will be putting out multi-platform titles and the same games will be available on opposition hardware that would cost less.

Sony completely fucked up with the PSX (not referring to the codename for Playstation), and it' s no wonder the thing wasn' t released worldwide. Look how much they charged for that! The cheapest model retailed at 691.189 USD!!!

Again, i' m not attacking Sony, i' m putting my opinion accross. Y' know, you talk about mistakes that Nintendo made with using carts for N64 and the GameCube Optical Disc, but the same could easily be said of Sony and their Mini-Disc and Betamax formats. While they weren' t used for games, it' s the companies approach to controling what hardware you HAVE to buy to be able to use their products. They' re doing exactly the same thing with Blu-Ray now!

AND WHAT THE HELL DOES ME LIVING IN THE UNITED KINGDOM HAVE TO DO WITH ANYONE BEING LESS LIKELY TO PLAY COPIED/PIRATED GAMES ON MODDED CONSOLES?!

FOR THE RECORD, I DO NOT SUPPORT PIRACY. I CAN MORE THAN AFFORD WHATEVER HARDWARE/GAMES I WISH TO PLAY, LIKE ME BUYING THE 360 PREMIUM PACK WITH EVERY LAUNCH GAME ON DEC 2ND. THE 360 RETAILS AT £279 (493.047 USD) HERE AND THE GAMES AT £50 (88.0611 USD) AND 13 GAMES AVAILABLE ON LAUNCH DAY, SO YOU DO THE MATH! I' ve since imported DoA4 and RR6 too.

Nintendo invented the analog controller and pads that rumble. Wireless pads were available on Gamecube (Wavebird) well before the competition caught on. Sony didn' t make games mainstream, they just branded them. Sure they got them into more homes than ever before, but you' re still limited to how you play them. At least with Xbox and 360 you have Live. Revolution will have it' s Wi-Fi service that' s going to be immensely popular. But i would have thought that with a proven and popular service already in place courtesy of Microsoft and Nintendo announcing their plans months ago, that Sony would have re-assured the gamers that would want to use such a service on their PS3' s, but all things point to them not having plans for it so far!

Owning products from a company doesn' t prove that you don' t hate it. Your comments so far have showed quite the opposite of what you claims to be your emotional view on Sony.
There has been very little OFFICIAL approach on the PS3 from Sony. Most ofwhat seems to be Sonys approach has been rumours and developers theories flodding in forums such as these.
I disagree that other consoles have a " higher caliber" on their 1st party titles. I' d say they are all on the same level, but with slightly different focus on genre and targeted audience. But I guess this is a matter of preference. Personally, I enjoy Nintendos titles the most and Microsofts titles the least.
The reason for owning a PS2 wasn' t just it' s big support of exclusive 3rd party supporters. Besides, before the launch of PS2, the amount of 3rd party exclusives wasn' t near as big as it became in the end. Sony still has the largest support, even before the launch of PS3, and this will attract more developers to develop exclusively, Japanese or American/European.
We all prefer to have high quality titles than watered down clones. That' s why PS2 is so succesful. The XBox mostly got PC ports or enhanced version of older games. Personally, I think so has been the case with 360 so far with a few titles as exception.
The fact that you can easily afford avoiding pirated games doesn' t necesary mean that you will avoid piracy. Many people who deals with piracy could easily afford the games as well. It' s more a question of your moral values. I think your comment, especially the part where you told us you bought the 360 with all launch games, was bragging.
Xbox didn' t bring anything new with live. Online gaming was already tested on the Dreamcast and PCs.

Oh yeah. I forgot about the main question of the thread!!

If the PS3 releases at $500, I think it' s a good deal. I mean, they' ve got Blu-Ray players debuting at $1800, and I' m supposed to thing $500 is bad for a player AND a next gen console? Hell, if the peripheral for the 360 to play HD-DVD movies costs $150 (which is speculatively generous) then the system will have cost me $550 total! Of course, I like the fact that the people who just want the system for games have that choice, and can forgo the add-on, as opposed to the Sony strategy.

I think 500$ sounds good. As I said in another thread, you can choose the 360+4 games OR the PS3. Since there are so few games I' d like to buy for the 360 so far, I' d rather have the PS3 with fewer, but high quality, games. The fact that it has a Blu-Ray makes the deal even better. And you' ll also save money since you don' t have to pay for anything like XboxLive.
If I don' t have the money, I can split the payment. I mean, 41$ per month for a year doesn' t sound too bad if you get a PS3 for it.
Sony appears to have no online strategy but since the PS3 might be able to include some kind of operative system, I wonder if it would not be possible to experience online content as on a regular PC?

ginjirou sometimes it' s not only abour moral values , it' s also whether you have a choice or not.

since i' m living in this country, although i' m not poor but games for teh standard living is extrely expensive, if i want to buy an original game like God of war like 6 months ago, i would pay around 90$ , no kidding... os i beg of you people understand the situation, the whole world is not like england , france, usa , canada, teher are so many other countrie out there...

if there wasn' t for puracy , i could not enjoy the game i enjoy today at all, probably i will give up on video games totaly since this field is very expensive..

so what i do is what the rest of people do, buy or download cracked software because i could not buy these games anyway, i might save to buy a single game in two months or three months and you' re a true video gamer lover you know it' s extremly hard specialy when the choice of getting for free or a couple of dollars is next door.

Can' t you just import games? From Europe where french is available as game language? It should be cheaper than 90$. Try importing several games at once. Hell, why not open your own bussiness dealing with import games. If 90$ is the normal price, then you could make a damn fortune!

Bragging? Not quite. I was getting at the PS3 price (the topic of this thread). The Playstation was launched in th UK with a RRP of £400 (704.317 USD). So IF Sony launched in the US at $500 then the UK would likely see at £400 RRP, which is £120 (211.300 USD) more than the 360 launch price.

Saying Sony' s 1st part titles are of the same caliber as Nintendo' s or even Sega' s when they were still making consoles, is insane. Sony' s great 1st party games have only really made an impression in the last 18 months, with God of war and GT4 being the best. Shaddow of the Colossus looks amazing too, but there are better 3rd party titles available on the PS2 than the majority of their 1st party games.

So what games DID make you buy your PS2?!

Do you own a Xbox?! Because it' s best games certainly aren' t available on PC.

And piracy has a detrimental effect on the games industry, hence me defending Nintendo' s decision to use carts for N64. Ok, so they didn' t quite stop piracy but they did a better job than Sega or Sony.

And if Xbox Live really isn' t that impressive, why has it got so much acclaim from the games industry?!

AND why do you think Sony are stopping combo HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players being made?! Surely that would be good for the end user if they had access to both formats, since it wouldn' t force them to choose between one or the other!

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Xbox didn' t bring anything new with live. Online gaming was already tested on the Dreamcast and PCs.

Yeah, but Microsoft is perfecting it!

import games?? first it' s very hard as our vida card is not international, second if i have to importe a game costing 60euro from france or usa then i should add taxe + shipement that will be like 85 euro... i explained teh situation here and i think it' s clear enough.

i think if you live here i' m sure that you will do exactly the same, like evrybody , be poor or very rich... try always to put yourself in others shoes.