is that so far from the truth? really, without Sony, try to imagine what the games industry would look

Please stop it :)

MAjik is right - they brought everything that sux when it comes to 3rd parties - lame mainstream titles that sell only thanks to good marketing skills.

MGS , FF and all the other titles were doing good without them and the new ones would' ve been made for Sega Saturn or N64 if PSX didn' t existed.

Now I really think that PSX was an amazing system - but what majik says about them being arrogant is 100% real.They get way too much credit for that mainstream thing.

They say that games are cool now and that nowadays " GEEK is CHIC" - bullshit.

Those " cool" gamers are playing madden or GTA games and have never even heard of Zelda , Shenmue or whatever.And those geeks are still here , and they are the real gamers that play good games and never went mainstream.

Anyway - PSX is one of my favourite systems - still we would do just as good without it.

I' m not a pure sony hater. You said that you don' t like how people are hating sony, or you could call that " badmouthing" . Think of how many " badmouth" MS for the Xbox...waaaaay more than those that " hate sony" . Sony has done good things, as did nintendo, sega etc etc, but saying that MS didn' t do anything, come on now, be realistic. You could buy a HDD for the PS2, but who really used it? The xbox made the hdd a necessity for consoles, if i may say so. Not fully, but it' s getting there, the hdd will be an important part of a console, and not just an " addon" . As for the Online service, no one so far has done it like MS has. Even sony is gonna follow them in the online service, and they are making it almost identical. I' ve read about what Sony wants to make of their online service and teamxbox is right when they say " Sony H.U.B. = Sony Live" (sony' s service will be called sony hub).

What' s wrong with the xbox being a " pc" ? if it wasn' t for PCs in the first place, we wouldn' t have consoles. When it comes to good Online service on consoles, everyone will remember Xbox Live, im sure of it.

Sony has to change the d-pad on their controller, man do I hate those 4 buttons. That is not a d-pad!

Majik, no I don' t like that racing controller u showed. The wheel for the rev, I don' t like it either cuz u have to hold it with both hands, and you will get tired by doing that. I wish I knew how to use photoshop so i could make a drawing. anyways.

No company really needs to impress me at E3, I' m still gonna buy all 3 of them. If i get impressed a little more by Nintendo for example, then I could go, 360, rev and then ps3. eventually ill have all 3, it' s just a matter of which to buy first.

Sony has to change the d-pad on their controller, man do I hate those 4 buttons. That is not a d-pad!

My sentiments EXACTLY! You have no idea how much I HATE, HATE, HATE Sony' s d-pad design.

Hey ginjirou where in sweden do you live?
Gonna buy myself a 360 tomorrow :)

awright ginjirou, you' ve got some good points, the original xbox controller was clunky enough to paralyze a moose, but , i hate to break it to you. Sony illegally used haptic/force-feedback ideas in their dualshock controllers, as did microsoft... but they settled out of court. Microsoft paid 26 mil (us dollars) to Immersion for licensing rights, and agreed to allow Immersion to borrow up to 9 million through a convertable debenture agreement with Micro$oft.

Come on dude, no offense, but i' ve barely got my Junior High degree and i know this.

Sony, on the other hand completely ignored Immersion, and pressed on with legal action. it' s a risky option, and if they don' t win, they' re gonna have alot more to pay up than 26 million, and some loaning cash. Why do they have to be so vain, couldn' t they just settle? meh, at least there' s plans to change that dysfunctional ps3 controller, those analog sticks are smaller than the psp thumbstik for cripes sake. and if Immersion loses the lawsuit on the rumble feature, they' ll have to put an AO sticker on the box.

(man, someone needs to do something like that in photoshop)

Sony will definately lose. Well, they already lost and were ordered to pay $90 million and were told to stop selling anything with connection to the controllers. They HAD to appeal in order to be able to keep selling PS2' s since the consoles are packaged with a controller. If they didn' t appeal they' d have been screwed, but in the long run it' s going to cost them even more.

They' ll have to pay damages to Immersion, court fees etc... it doesn' t look good for Sony really, not with regard to this. Microsoft settled, but also bought 10% of Immersion and their were talks of Microsoft outright buying the company so Sony wouldn' t be able to eventually licence the technlogy (not that Immersion would let them anyway).

It was a HUGE mistake on Sony' s part and another example of their arrogance.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on their decisions about the law suits. Makes no sense to me.
Anyway, Sony are arrogant, yes, but who expects a market leading company to be humble and honest? Welcome to reality, whoever gets on top becomes arrogant, weither it' s Nintendo or Sega or anyone else.
Majik, you' re saying that you know MS has outdone Sony this time but how can you say that when most of the details about the PS3 haven' t even been revealed yet? It would seem you are dissing Sony for no apparent reason. I admit that it looks bad for Sony regarding some issues but you are just to sure about things. That' s why I see you as a Sony hater. But if you' re not than just ignore me.
Microsoft wouldn' t have entered the gaming industry if there wasn' t any chance of profit. And in order to make the industry profitable you have to make it mainstream, something Sony managed to do. I doubt Nintendo or Sega would have done so and they probably would have failed as they don' t have the same wide brand as Sony does. So I think MS would have never made the XBox without the PS.
Lame mainstream titles that sucks pisses us real gamers off but you have to realize that the industry needs money. This ain' t charity you know! So sometimes it is necessary to make those crappy games. Some of you gamers seem to live in your own worlds...
Games like FF and MGS would have been made on other consoles if there was no PS1, yes, but it would have taken much longer before we' d seen them if Sony weren' t there as the first to really go all out on 3D technology and give the developers a machine capable of performing what was needed to bring the developers ideas to life.
QuezcatoL, I live in Stockholm, it' s pretty much the only city in Sweden that' s worth living in (no offence to all you country folks or gothenburgers but I grew up in STHLM). I hope you enjoy your 360. I might sound like a Sony fanboy but I really think the 360 is great if you like the games out for it. You' re buying it at webhallen right?

I' m not dissing anyone. Who even uses the word " dissing" ???

A " Sony hater" ???

Dude!

Playstation, Playstation 2, PStwo, Mini Disc (ugh!), Sony Walkman, Sony PSP etc... I own them all. My issue with Sony is not really an issue with Sony themselves but with the impressionable teenagers that they have convinced that they can' t be beaten.

You have these hardcore Sony nuts (Microsoft and Nintendo one too but those can usually put up an argument or hold a conversation) who don' t care for the details and will just tell you " PS3 teh r0x0r!!!!!!!"

It' s stupid.

Understanding MY perspective would require you to understand exactly what has transpired with regard to PS3 and its development. Sony wasn' t going to have a dedicated online service, but Microsoft has and it' s been something that has really impressed developers and gamers alike, ...so obviously Sony have to do it!

Not only are Sony planning to have a dedicated online service like live, but they say they' ll match it feature for feature and then some. Please, ...like Sony have even half a chance of making it work, they HAVE to do it or they' ll get criticised. Sony have no interest in online play, they never have and the only reason they' ll do it is because they' ll get slated if they don' t.

On top of that they' re FORCING people to pay for Blu-Ray. Who' s to say you' ll want it?! Why can' t there be 2 models of the PS3, one with and one without?! Oh ofcourse, because they' re also forcing DEVELOPERS to use it...

PS3 is a vehicle to get Blu-Ray into as many homes as possible. If Sony can control the home video market they will make more money than they ever could from games. That is something you need to understand.

Sony even thinking of having PS3 use technology that would make a game readable (playable) only on the machine it was first played on was enough to completely piss me off. That would stop game trading in it' s tracks. If i own something, i reserve the right to sell it on if i wish. Fortunately for them they eventually decided against it, but that was probably more to do with the DRM scandal (how could they be so stupid?) than anything else. It could still happen.

Then there' s the expense. I want to play games, that' s all i want to do. Do i want to pay over the odds for it?! Hell no!

Sony aren' t JUST fighting Microsoft. The Sony Walkman and PSP are competing with Apples iPod range in a battle that Sony know they can' t win. The PSP is competing with the Nintendo DS and DS is slaughtering PSP in terms of sales. Sony' s Blu-Ray will compete against HD-DVD and probably win but then it' ll have more competition with even newer technology that' ll be available in 2007. PS3 will compete with both 360 and Revolution and Sony are set to lose a good share of the market to the competition.

Sony may stay on top as the number one console manufacturer but since Sony makes most of it' s money from games now a loss of marketshare will be a big hit for them, especially when they' re being beaten on other fronts.

I don' t see how Sony could possibly beat Microsoft. Microsoft have the money to buy Sony 5 times over. Sony is a small company in terms of how much money they make compared to Microsoft and it doesn' t matter to Microsoft if they lose money on every unit sold.

To Microsoft they' re not LOSING money, they' re PURCHASING marketshare and putting the squeeze on the competition.

There' s more but i can' t be bothered. I don' t hate or dislike Sony. I dislike some of their choices and i don' t trust them as far as i could throw them but i don' t hate them. I keep buying their products at least.

When you see Revolution dude, you' re gonna forget Sony even HAVE a console called PS3..

I don' t even know if " dissing" is a word, I' m not that good in english.
Look, just because you own products from a company doesn' t mean that you don' t hate it.
I' m not convinced that Sony can' t be beaten but it seems veeeery unlikely that they will be, at least in Japan. I mean, do you honestly think that the PS3 will loose to the 360 in Japan? Come on!
Sony wasn' t going to have an online service at first, that' s right, and many criticised them for that decision. But now that they have chosen to have one, they get criticised for that instead! What the hell do you want them to do? You criticise them regardless. I thought people would be happy to know that Sony would have such a service. Of course they have decided to meet the requests of developers and gamers when the demand is so huge. What is there to complain about?
Sony are forcing people to pay for the Blu-Ray, yes, but it' s called bussiness. Besides, they feel they need larger capacity storage and since they have wasted tons of money on developing Blu-ray it would seem quite stupid to choose another form of storage. They think that there is a demand for HD products and so they try to deliver the PS3 with something that plays DVDs in HD. Something wrong?
It' s like saying that Sony and MS were wrong when they made us buy DVD players when they released the PS2/Xbox.
Some other things you mention has just been speculation or ideas that has never been approved. The whole idea that games would only be readable on the first system was just an idea. Nothing more, and it was cancelled. You have to be able to show ideas without being concidered bad.
The Walkman has been very successful before and it is now, but in the form of mobile phones. Just look at SonyEricsson and their walkman phones and tell me they' re not successful.
You' re saying that the DS is slaughtering the PSP in sales, hmm, not entirely correct. The DS is doing better but the word " slaughtering" gives the wrong image. Besides, many predicts that the PSP will surpass the DS this year. Although I' m not to happy about that since I love the DS to.
Sony may be smaller and poor compared to MS but it' s naive to think that the little man can' t defeat the big.
But I' m not talking about which company has the most money or which one of them will make the most profit. I' m talking about making products that are appreciated by the buyers. Since you have many Sony products, I assume you enjoy their products.
I' m looking forward to the Rev the most, but I think that Sony will make the PS3 good enough to motivate me into buying them both. I think they will also show some new innovative features (not as Nintendo though, that' s impossible) and I' m sure the PS3 will have huge amounts of great titles.

I mean, do you honestly think that the PS3 will loose to the 360 in Japan? Come on!

No, to Revolution.

And Europe and the US are more important than Japan anyhoo.

Sony are forcing people to pay for the Blu-Ray, yes, but it' s called bussiness

No, it' s called bad-business. Whatever happened to choice?!

The whole idea that games would only be readable on the first system was just an idea. No more, and it was cancelled

Dude, do some research, ...it was patented! Do you even know what the DRM scandal was all about?!

Ken Kataguri himself is listed among the inventors, ...what does he do at Sony?!

The Walkman has been very successful before and it is now, but in the form of mobile phones. Just look at SonyEricsson and their walkman phones and tell me they' re not successful.

Depend on how you measure success i guess. They' re selling nothing like the figures that iPod is.

More than 14.4million Nintendo DS' s have been sold, compared to just over 10.7million PSP' s, and DS Lite is expected to sell out as soon as it' s released.

Slaughtering may have been the wrong word but i don' t think PSP will overtake in terms of sales this year. I thought it would before DS lite, the web browser and tv stuff for DS was announced.

but it' s naive to think that the little man can' t defeat the big.

Revolution...

I' m sure the PS3 will have huge amounts of great titles.

Maybe. It' ll have great titles that' s for sure but the talk coming from the industry is that it' s much more expensive to develop for and probably won' t have the number of games that say the PS2 enjoyed.

Japan is a very important market as most of the worlds best developers are from Japan and they want to be successful in Japan over everything else. And if those developers choose a console that is successful in Japan (PS3) and release great games for it, the rest of the world will follow since they also like those games. Even though the market is bigger in the U.S. or in Europe it' s Japan that controlls the market.
Choice? MS were the first ones to offer choice and what choice was that? Buy the inferior machine which forces you to upgrade it later anyway, or choose the one with a HDD. Great choice... NOT! It was a trick to lure poor/unconvinced buyers into buying a 360 and making it look cheaper. Now, I don' t blame them for that, it' s good bussiness, but it was not good for the consumers which I think matters the most.
Did we get to choose between a Xbox with a HDD/DVD-player and one without? No!
Even though that stupid idea of Sonys was patented or whatever it has now been cancelled. It doesn' t matter what kind of choices a company makes during development before a release as long as the final product turns out to be good. If they keep the idea or have a similar, you' ll hear me swear for years on this forum I promise you, but until then, it' s not an issue.
I think we will probably see lots of titles for the PS3 because the chances of making lots of money are big enough for risky investments. And larger companies can afford the costs. Smaller companies have never been Sonys favourites anyway.

Ugh, it' s pointless. This is EXACTLY my point, ...see...

My issue with Sony is not really an issue with Sony themselves but with the impressionable teenagers that they have convinced that they can' t be beaten

My issue isn' t that I love Sony as a fanboy, It' s just that I can' t stand people who keeps having a negative view on things no matter how much good you say about them.
Seriously, you criticised Sony for not having an online service before. And now you criticise them for having one. Can' t you understand why I feel I have to convince you that not everything is bad? I would be doing the same thing for MS and the XBox consoles if there weren' t others doing that (you and OptaviusX for example).
I think it' s sad when there' s only one opinion in a forum like this, especially when there are lots of people reading the posts because they are probably influenced by what we write.
I didn' t see anyone in this forum who seemed to support Sony but I did see lots of negative views on Sony and lots of positive on the Xbox. So I chose to take the role as a Sony supporter (which I am, it' s not just a role, but I usually don' t spend this much time explaining why I support them) to prevent threads were everyone had the same view.

Please don' t put me in the same sentance as OptaviusX, he' s a heretic and a liar to boot!

Seriously, you critisized Sony for not having an online service before. And now you critisize them for having one.

Yes, because they don' t actually care about giving us an online service. They' re just doing it to shut people up and stop themselves from being criticised for not doing it.

They haven' t even finalised the systems specification yet. You think they' ll launch in Spring like they said they would?

You actually think MS had their online service because they wanted to be nice to all us gamers? Haha, that' s not why they did my friend. They created Xbox Live because they knew that was the only thing they could do to stand up against Sony and Nintendo. The same reason for why Sony has decided to have their online service. They' re all the same, can' t you see?
Regarding the launch, I have no ideas. They could launch in spring, or they could launch in 2008. I don' t have enough info to comment that.
But I hope the PS3 will be released in the U.S. and Japan this year and with Europe following in Spring 2007.

The xbox made the hdd a necessity for consoles, if i may say so. Not fully, but it' s getting there, the hdd will be an important part of a console, and not just an " addon

Wow great - and who said that consoles without HDD (PS2) and GCN are worse in any department ? Loading times? - fastest on GameCube.

You want your custom soundtrack? cool , I don' t - I wan' t devs to make the best one possible - anyway X360 doesn' t require HDD for Custom Soundtracks so it' s not the best point.

I say if you love Online RPGs that much - there' s no way you could' ve traded you PC games for those on consoles.We don' t have - not even one decent MMORPG game (FFXI is so much worse than WOW)

What' s wrong with the xbox being a " pc" ? if it wasn' t for PCs in the first place, we wouldn' t have consoles

WTF are you talking about?

Gaming was first on consoles and in arcades - PCs couldn' t catch up untill 3D cards were invented.That' s when they cought up with visuals - to this day they rarely make games with good (not to mention amazing) gameplay quality.

MS controller - large and S alike - just sux.

I don' t know about the one for 360 but many people love it so ...

Japan is a very important market as most of the worlds best developers are from Japan and they want to be successful in Japan over everything else.

Not anymore - guys like Capcom are focusing on Europe and US as of this generation - they said it.

Is it hard to believe?
Japan is no longer that interested in games (they are more into DS style play - short ans fun sessions) - and both US and EUROPE are territories that really want to play every good game out there.

Last generation we weren' t as absorbed by games as Japan but right now we' re at least on equall level (both US and EUROPE)

Now, I don' t blame them for that, it' s good bussiness, but it was not good for the consumers which I think matters the most.

What?

If someone bought the core system - he knew what he was doing - and he was a dumb fuckin moron.

It' s not MS duty to be as stupid as most consumers.

Anyway I don' t like MS and Sony alike , but I hope that PS3 will do good this time , since 360 will survive anyway.

The only ones who bought core systems were the ones who wasn' t fortunate enough to get their hands on a Premium package. And this has forced them to buy all the upgrades separately, which is much more expensive than having it all in the Premium package.
Microsoft should be happy with their shortages as the Core packs wouldn' t have been sold if there would have been available Premium Packs. As someone said, only hardcore gamers buy consoles at launch and why would they buy a Core System?

Japan is no longer that interested in games (they are more into DS style play - short ans fun sessions)

Exactly why Revolution will go down a storm there. I fully expect Nintendo to outsell Sony on their home turf.

If someone bought the core system - he knew what he was doing - and he was a dumb fuckin moron.

I couldn' t have put it better!

only hardcore gamers buy consoles at launch

Early adopters do tend to be " hardcore" gamers (hardcore?!), but they don' t HAVE to buya core pack do they?! It' s choice.

360 is future proofed from what i can tell. DVD playback (shoddy DVD playback at that), but no HD-DVD or Blu-Ray because somewhere down the line there will be a winner and THEN we' ll get an add-on for one or the other. TiVo-esque facility built in and ready to be activated when the time is right. Xbox Live allowing for continuous upgrades and functions to be added.

It' s all about choice. If you only want to save you game, you ahve the choice to buy the memory units instead of forking out for a HDD. If you don' t want wireless controllers you can get wired ones.

Wow! So much have been said in just a day. This have been very rewarding. Hopefully someone except for ourselves actually reads and appreciates all we' ve written. I' ll take a break for now because I feel there is nothing more of interest to say about all this.

The only ones who bought core systems were the ones who wasn' t fortunate enough to get their hands on a Premium package. And this has forced them to buy all the upgrades separately, which is much more expensive than having it all in the Premium package.

Yeah it' s true , but still - they didn' t have to buy those core 360' s.

I' ve never bought any system on launch day - people get so carried away when they see better graphics :)