So if your friends, or your family or someone happens to get diseased you don' t want them to survive with the help of medical science simply because they are weaker than you?

why campaign for stuff like it then stay away from people with sars, aids, or lepracy etc,.

Didn' t get that part. I don' t know if my english is bad or if you put it in a weird way but... I didn' t get that part.

You also said something like what humans are doing does' nt make much of a difference to the globe ...really?.

We make a difference but compared to what nature can do itself it' s not much really.

Would any of you like to live in a world devoid of Laws, Goverments or basic inforstutre,

Would you like to live on this basic level, no technogly, living in the cold and unstationtry conditions?

Its not right, we have passed beyond that, nobody should live in that today, I know some do in the poor countries, but they will eventually devolp.

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

So if your friends, or your family or someone happens to get diseased you don' t want them to survive with the help of medical science simply because they are weaker than you?

Again you' re straying from the point did I state that weaker people should die? or did I say that you' re argument for it was flawed compared to what goes on elsewhere?.

Also what I was saying is that there are holes in the argument pertaining to the above thats all.

Ok I think I got it know but correct me if I' m wrong again.
I don' t think my argument is flawed just because everyone don' t live up to it. Everyone is different, acts different and have different opinions. Even though I and many others feel that any life anywhere should be saved if there is a will and a way it doesn' t mean that everyone else feel that way.

quote:

What exactly has man managed to accomplish thus far apart from destroying eco-systems, fucking with the atmosphere and making a general mess of the planet?!


The Sega Dreamcast. that' s gotta count for something.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Eddie you are ready - I' ll teach you the way of a dragon ninja :)

And to all you bitchin boys - Matrix ain' t real it' s just a movie damn it :)

We haven' t fucked the world up. The world is not a static, unchanging thing. It existed before mankind walked on it, and it will survive mankind.

Anyone who says they have no choices in life is either an idiot who makes no attempt to decide or a coward who willfully surrenders all his control to others.
There is no " fate" . Everything is the result of choices. Paths collide, more choices appear and the cycle continues.

All aspects society are a result of mankind' s will.
The desire to survive causes us to group together.
The desire to live inspired us to study our environment and develop medicines. The desire to prosper causes us to change the environment to suit our prosperity. Government and laws are a result of our desire for stability.


Mankind is not a seperate entity existing apart from the world. Our social evolution has harmed our environment, but the very fact that we realize this is what will preserve that same environment for future generations.

We realize we need different types of fuel, so we are developing them.

We realize that we are killing rainforests, so societies have formed to monitor and protect them.

The only scenario that means an end for mankind and the world is one in which mankind becomes too arrogant to change and adapt. And as arrogant as mankind is, that' s simply not in our nature.



And i don' t think any substance should be illegal. If people want to kill themselves, let them...it' s their choice. Personally, my parents taught me better.

" What happens if he says no?

The world certainly influences your choices, but it dosent determine them."





" That' s what little men do - you don' t have to be one of them.

You have perfect controll of everything you want as long as you have enough courage to take the wheel.

You know some people stood against bigger things than getting up in the morning or money robbery and died for them - at one point you' re saying you don' tcare about life , but then you say that you have to give this guy your cash cause you don' t wanna die and trying anything else might get you killed.

You are a coward like 99% people on this planet , but they don' t lie to themselves that they don' t care and shit.

I have nothing against people who value their life ,career and so on, more than dignity and honour, but saying it' s the only way and trying to be depressed about it is just hopeless "





I knew you guys would say this. It shows that you' re not understanding what I' m saying. Look at my robbery example again. Most people would hand over the money because fear is the greatest influence for them at that time with everything considered. However some people would tell the rober to fuck off. These rare people have other influences that are greater than fear in this moment. Not everyone is influenced by the same things because we all have different lives. The only thing we have in common is that we all surrender to the lowest common denominator. The only times where we do not, we consider it a mistake.

The way some of you are talking makes it sound as though I' m saying this because I' m a depressed teenage pot head. When in fact I' m none of those things. This is just my perspective on life. Someone wondered my age, I' m 20 and the older I get the more sure of myself I get. This isn' t even my opinion, I know I' m right. I see it everyday, people follow the same patters like fucking drones. It' s getting to a point where I can' t stand being around my family or friends because I know what they' re going to do before they do it. Life gets really really boring after you' ve reached a point where nothing can surprise you.

Wow this is getting deep maaaaaaaaan.

You cant expect things to be done for you, you got to make your own changes. Nobody else will.

You cant count on people very much, people allways have themseleves as no.1 and others come afterwards, there may be a odd expection but its true, people are selfish and dont give a damn about you. But you cannot let that affect you, You want a more exciteing life?, nobody is going to do it for you. You got to do it yourself.

Like your robbery examp-le, nobdy is going to jump in and save you, becuase they fear they may get shot, and I respect that, an animals basic Instinct is to survive. But you got too look past that. and do it yourself.

It' s getting to a point where I can' t stand being around my family or friends because I know what they' re going to do before they do it. Life gets really really boring after you' ve reached a point where nothing can surprise you.

So what if you know what they' re going to do? Maybe they' re happy with their lifes that way.
I can see your point in all your arguments but I have to disagree with most of them.

Its funny how you guys are agreeing with me yet arguing at the same time. My robbery example was never about outside help. It was about how humanity reacts to being robbed and how the same proccesses governs everything we do. Silent you just admitted that we are ruled by basic instincs. When we are presented with a choice we always choose whichever appeals the most for whatever reason. Those reasons are constructed by our experiences (our surroundings). Since we are born into a setting, I feel as though my life is already decided because I have the same instinct as everyone else.

The human instinct is humanity, everything else is mearly the cause. Human instinct is the engine that drives cause to effect. For example our bodies (including the brain you were born with) are a major cause, one that is largely responsible for shaping our personality. As are our parents and things we learn...


It works out like this, Human instinct+cause=effect (individuals). Modern psychology (humanistic) is based on the idea that we' re all trying to meet out potential which is of course the human instinct. I' m taking this one step further in saying that since we all have the same human instinct we would all react the same way to the same situation. This is why I feel like I have no choice. I' m only doing what I do because of the circomstances I was born into.

It' s impossible to see all the causes. We can' t even come remotely close. There are simply too many variables. We would have to make up a new number to describe how many unique factors interact with human instinct to create our minds. I like to compare humans with weather. We understand the forces that control weather like temperature*,air density* and humidity* perfectely. However we can' t predict tomorrows weather with certainty simply because we can' t measure the causes* with 100% accuracy. If we could measure all the variables with 100% acc. we could predict the weather 1000 years from now with 100% accuracy. The same is true with humans.



" So what if you know what they' re going to do? Maybe they' re happy with their lifes that way.
I can see your point in all your arguments but I have to disagree with most of them."

Well if you understand what I' m saying then thats all I wanted. I' m only sharing the reason why I feel a certain way. If someone here agreed with everything I said then they' d probably feel the same way, which was by the way the basis on why I' m not against using marijuana.

I' m not one dimensional, the idea that life is pointless and and without choice is more a belief than a sentiment for me. I know my life is meaningless, but I just don' t give a shit. More than anything I' m just bored, life is too long.

I don' t see how one could be bored with life. I think there are so many things that I have not experienced and learned that I need ANOTHER lifetime. I mean, yeah, we' re all insignificant insects in the grand scheme of things, but why not just enjoy it? Game Junkie, you don' t enjoy sunsets? Rainy days? Canyons? Mountains? Animals? Birds? Children? Swimming? GIRLS? Movies? Learning? Marial Arts? Reading?

Right now I' m looking into: Learning Martial Arts, Spending more time reading, wooing a beautiful young lady, going back to college to learn how to start a home theater installation company, traveling (even if it' s in the same country). But then I' m always distracted by friends who want to watch movies or play video games (which is a good thing). Hell, even just sitting around on the internet is cool to me. Doesn' t seem useless of boring (even though it probably should! )

Well then it' s too bad you were born into being a depressed weed smoker who can' t enjoy life. It' s too bad that there was no action that caused an effect on you that would make you feel different.
Our lifes probably has no meaning from the beginning (other than reproducing, nature seems to want us to do that). But you can always give your life a meaning yourself. Of course, that choice won' t be a free choice, it' s simply your mind reacting to all the things that you have experienced. But it would make things more fun if you would find some meaning.

I guess your view of " choice" is similar to mine.
Raindrops don' t fall on random places even though it appears so. They fall on predestined spots which are decided by the wind, the air resistance and their weight.
That can be compared to our thoughts. They seem to be " free" but they are just a result of other events. Chemical substanses in our brains reacting to what' s happening in our lifes, to make sure we survive.
Ever since Big bang everything that has happened is a result of a previous event. It' s kind of what you could call fate. Everything that' s happening was meant to happen since the beginning of time.

But even though this is how the world works and even though we are controlled by fate or destiny, whatever you call it, I always feel that we should apprecitate our different fates. I hope that even though you might be destined to feel the way you do, destiny will have something nice waiting for you that will make life worth living.
I enjoy my life simply by enjoying everyday things. Playing videogames, being with friends, watching TV, taking a trip. Even though it' s predictable, even though I was meant to do these things and really don' t have a choice, I still like it.

But choice and a pre-set fate doesn' t have to be that different even though it sounds weird. Here' s a suggestion from me: find something you enjoy in life, find stuff that gives your life a meaning.
Now you have a choice, what you choose will be a direct result of your previous experiences. However, the decision still has to be made. Even though the answer is pre-set, you still have to choose the it and then you' ll FOLLOW IT THROUGH. And that' s the exciting part of life. Not the ability to MAKE choices, but what the choices will actually LEAD to.

Does it make sense to read a book, even though the ending has already been written? Of course, because you do not know what the ending is until you read it. Life is like that(if you believe in all this predetermined stuff, which I don' t). I mean, tomorrow is what I make it. If I want to sit around watching Momma' s Family, eating Cheesy Poofs, then that' s what' s gonna happen. If I wanna go out and have sex with a hot chick and then play multi-player Prey until my eyes bleed, then THAT' S what' s gonna happen! Which ever thing I decide to do, was it destiny? Fate? F*ck if I know, and f*ck if I care! I don' t know what tommorow brings, so I' ll do what I want to do, and see what happens.

I think some people just put TOO MUCH analysis into life. Who gives a sh*t! Play games, have sex, eat good food! Enjoy the moment, for it is fleeting, as is life. You' ll have plenty of time to contemplate death, once it comes. You' ll also be more of an expert once you have the experience (as opposed to now, as we can all just speculate).

For the record gingirou I' ve been high only 3-4 times and this was all in one summer 2 years ago. I' ve known a lot of real drug addicts but I' m not one of them. I' m not a " weed smoker" , and likely won' t touch the stuff for a while. I just don' t think it should be illegal, for the simple reason that I don' t like the government or anyone telling me what I can' t consume. I don' t see why we allow our governments to get so powerful that they can prevent us from enjoying simple pleasures. Who' s to say what is fun? Everyone has a different idea of a good time.

If I get a chance to try cocain,heroin,ecstacy etc. from a trust worthy supplier I' ll take it. I' m not suicidal, but I' m not afraid to die either. I refuse to hide behind the fears and morals of others. I don' t see drugs as any different from the other passtimes you mentioned . Pot is a distraction like anything else. Would doing drugs be bad for my health? Probably. But I really don' t give a shit about my health. Some people for reasons that elude me still believe that the healthiest person when he/she dies wins. Well you' re dead fucknut so...you didn' t win. It' s completely irrational to spend so much time and effort trying to preserve something that is destined to die.

You guys want to know my honest view of my future. This is not my pessimistic guess, it' s my plan, my intention for how I want to spend my life. Here goes, right now I' m working in a place that makes Hell look like a theme ride. I' ve been in this place for 2 very long years. I' m so sick of the place thinking about it makes me want to vomit, I only have this and next week left before I quit (already gave my notice) but I' m not even sure I' ll make it without going crazy. Anyways the only reason I stayed is because I wanted to save my pennies for college and finish the program I dropped out of.

I intend to finish my meager degree and get a job in the government (ironic isn' t it?) doing anything. I don' t really want a desk job but I live right next to the capital and government jobs are the only decent jobs here. In just a few years after I put my foot in the door, probably in statistics making upwards of $50 000 a year. I' ll live cheap and save my money. I' ll work for 10-15 years so when I' m 35-40 I can retire. I' ll then buy some land somewhere away from civilization and build a castle of drugs. I' ll have enough to supply the canadian army. Stimulant, depressants, barbituates, hallucinogens everything I can get my hands on and lots of it. I' ll spend the last few years of my life in isolation exploring the limits of my mind in my castle until I overdose. I want to give the world the finger and this is the best way to do it. I' ll succeed, take everything I want and throw it all back in their face.

So what do i think of weed? Maybe after I retire.

" Find a job you like and you add five days to every week."
-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

So in order to put the world right about governing people' s lives you are going to get a job working for the government...or did I read wrong?.

Even though I can' t moraly support your plan it sure is a fascinating one.

ORIGINAL: Game Junkie
Would doing drugs be bad for my health? Probably. But I really don' t give a shit about my health. Some people for reasons that elude me still believe that the healthiest person when he/she dies wins. Well you' re dead fucknut so...you didn' t win. It' s completely irrational to spend so much time and effort trying to preserve something that is destined to die.

People don' t stay healthy to avoid death, they do it to enjoy a better life. You' ll understand that after you have your first stroke or heart attack. Then all this pitiful morose angst you' ve gotten yourself mired in will seem silly.

Yeah, I said pitiful, and I meant it.

I intend to finish my meager degree and get a job in the government (ironic isn' t it?) doing anything. I don' t really want a desk job but I live right next to the capital and government jobs are the only decent jobs here. In just a few years after I put my foot in the door, probably in statistics making upwards of $50 000 a year. I' ll live cheap and save my money. I' ll work for 10-15 years so when I' m 35-40 I can retire. I' ll then buy some land somewhere away from civilization and build a castle of drugs. I' ll have enough to supply the canadian army. Stimulant, depressants, barbituates, hallucinogens everything I can get my hands on and lots of it. I' ll spend the last few years of my life in isolation exploring the limits of my mind in my castle until I overdose. I want to give the world the finger and this is the best way to do it. I' ll succeed, take everything I want and throw it all back in their face.

So you' re going to settle for the easiest task in your immediate environment, then kill yourself. Don' t really want to do much with your life do you?

Throw it back in whose face? Nobody gives a shit when an idiot dies. They just die. People overdose every damn day. That doesn' t make you unique and it won' t change anybody' s life.

You don' t give a shit about society? Then leave. Do it now. If you plan to be a pointless wart on society' s ass, leave society. We don' t need you.

You know what? You' re a coward.

You hate your job, but you keep going...

You don' t appreciate your own education, but you settle for it anyway...

You don' t WANT a government job, and you don' t plan on doing anything significant while you' re there, but you plan to get one because it' s close to your area...

Everyone around you bores you, but you stay...

It' s like you' re waiting for some catalyst to come along and scoop you out of this wretched world.
Be your own goddamn catalyst. Don' t like your life? Change it! Stop being such a little pussy and mold yourself into what you want to be. Stop banging your fists against the cage and open the damn door. It' s not locked, it never was.

Or don' t. Who gives a shit, right? Certainly not you.

Hmm, nice there naked_donkey.
Now, I think we should end this discussion. I don' t think we' ll get any further than this.