The greater influence wins everytime, which is why we never truely have a choice about anything. Life is no more then an intricate tapestry of cause and effect, every event is a thread

That' s what little men do - you don' t have to be one of them.

You have perfect controll of everything you want as long as you have enough courage to take the wheel.

You know some people stood against bigger things than getting up in the morning or money robbery and died for them - at one point you' re saying you don' tcare about life , but then you say that you have to give this guy your cash cause you don' t wanna die and trying anything else might get you killed.

You are a coward like 99% people on this planet , but they don' t lie to themselves that they don' t care and shit.

I have nothing against people who value their life ,career and so on, more than dignity and honour, but saying it' s the only way and trying to be depressed about it is just hopeless

Junkie is kinda right though...

...whether you agree or not, we' re all born into slavery.

You' re born, told you HAVE to go to school, then told to work until you' re 60+ to serve the economy and build up your pension so that when you retire you' re not a burden on society.

There are invisible fences and windows everywhere you go. Rules that somebody has made up that weren' t in place when the planet first formed. Shit, i can' t even walk accross fields in my home county because somebody owns the land and it' s been designated ' private' . Well who the fuck can own part of the Earth?! How was it decided that one person can own something that the entire race should be entitled to?!

What exactly has man managed to accomplish thus far apart from destroying eco-systems, fucking with the atmosphere and making a general mess of the planet?!

...whether you agree or not, we' re all born into slavery.

You' re born, told you HAVE to go to school, then told to work until you' re 60+ to serve the economy and build up your pension so that when you retire you' re not a burden on society.

You' re told to do it - or even made to do it , but it' s still possible to go another route.

What exactly has man managed to accomplish thus far apart from destroying eco-systems, fucking with the atmosphere and making a general mess of the planet?!

So? change that - you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

What? it' s impossible? why? did you try? Ok and after you failed did you try again? and again and again?

I haven' t done anything extraordinary in my life , but I know it all can be done if you try hard enough.Bitchin ain' t nothing but bitchin' and nothing creative or good comes from bitchin, it' s better not to say anything if you' re not going to support it with actions.

Giving up from the get-go is a common disease " we can' t change anything" - ok you can' t - you suck people, I can change things if I dedicate my life to it - I might just do that some day.But I' m not telling you how wrong everything is until I have a better idea.

What the fuck are you talking about?! We' ve already fucked the planet up!

Most people would say he had no choice but to fork over his money. In these moments they see what I see all the time. One greater influence overcoming a smaller influence. In this case fear overcomes pride and desire to keep his money.

What happens if he says no?

The world certainly influences your choices, but it dosent determine them.

You' re born, told you HAVE to go to school, then told to work until you' re 60+ to serve the economy and build up your pension so that when you retire you' re not a burden on society.

Majik, its becuase we live in a complex society, you expect to do what you want and have everybody around you work? just imagine what would happen if people had the choice of not going to school, imagine if 1000' s of people decide to ingorne the laws and barriers of our society, it would be choas, it would 100' s of years work undone, your live and everybody elses would be worse off.

Why do you think they are there? to screw with you? or is it the only way we can survive? to keep peace and efficiency, We arent going to get anywhere without those two.

What exactly has man managed to accomplish thus far apart from destroying eco-systems, fucking with the atmosphere and making a general mess of the planet?!

The Sega Dreamcast. that' s gotta count for something.

Who cares if there' s life after death, or what we live life for, or who controlls it? It' s mind over matter, If you don' t mind, it don' t matter. I say, screw this I' ve got no controll over a life that is predetermined before birth, stuff. No offense Game Junkie, I respect your opinions on these sort of things, I really do. But I don' t think you' re looking at life through a broad enough spectrum.

Maybe my life isn' t in my control, but I enjoy it. You can always make your life better. There' s no point where you should feel that there' s nothing better to live for. I come from a family where my dad didn' t finish college. He' s a brilliant man, but he isn' t payed the same as other people because he doesn' t have that signed piece of paper from the educational system that constitutes you as intelligent. But does that ever stop him? No. He lives his life to the fullest, and is always trying to make things better for him and his family.

You' re never going to get anything more out of life, than what you put in. Realistically, you can' t be much older than me can you? (no more than five or six years yeah?) I' m not rich, I' m not hyper-intelligent, and while I' m not butt ugly, I' ve never won any awards for being good looking. But I enjoy life, because I escape to things that i enjoy. I play video games because they' re a great escape from reality. You can isolate all of your virtual life, into the push of a button or two, and that' s extremely comforting. Find something you really love, and persue it, and life gets much easier.

Why do you think they are there? to screw with you? or is it the only way we can survive? to keep peace and efficiency, We arent going to get anywhere without those two.

To control us.

Other species manage just fine but we' ve managed to find ways around nature itself, inventing cures for diseases that would otherwise control our numbers and kill off the weak so that only the strongest and healthiest survive.

We' ve evolved TOO far.

Cooperation creates progress. If it weren' t for governments and our societies then man kind wouldn' t have gotten this far. We wouldn' t have videogames and we wouldn' t have this forum.
Sure, I like freedom. But in order to respect other peoples freedom we have to make rules so that someone doesn' t give himself more freedom than the next man. That' s the reason why we give our governments control.
You don' t have to go to school and you don' t have to get a regular job so if you want to be absolutely free then go ahead and do whatever you like. But you won' t go away because there are things that society gives you that you don' t want to live without. Videogames, movies, PC' s, everything of such complexity is created by the rules and discipline of our society.
One ant cannot do much more than to lift a single stick but together with other ants he can create big fortresses and ensure the survival of both him and his bretheren.

Other species manage just fine

I' d like you to show me some species that get on fine, with the same intelligance and imagination as us... oh wait, you cant, becuase they dont excist [that we know of].

We are very advanced, but I dont think our problems lie in the Future, but In the past, We have now come over those hurdles and living is a whole lot easyier than compared Medievil times, eh?

We have laws, to controll us yes, we have to have rules in a society like ours. The Goverment isnt out to get us, its there for our benifit, We cannot survive without it.

I' d like you to show me some species that get on fine, with the same intelligance and imagination as us... oh wait, you cant, becuase they dont excist [that we know of].

But that' s my point. We' re too intelligent for our own good and the planet would be better off without us.

The human race is systematically destroying Earth and whether we' re talking about cutting down rainforests, destroying eco-systems, polluting the sea and air, burning holes in the o-zone layer or rapidly increasing the greenhouse effect and thus global warming; it still stands that what we are doing isn' t natural.

Nature provides us with food and water, enough to survive. What the fuck do we need governments for?! How exactly do a bunch of middle-aged power hungry men benefit me?! Why do i pay taxes?!

We cannot survive without it.

That' s bullshit. We managed fine 1000' s of years ago. Fucking monkeys and lions are doing fine without governments. Shit, if WE didn' t have governments, monkeys and lions would be doing even better.

Majik, there' s a big difference between " living" and " staying alive" .
If all you want to do is to stay alive and satisfy your basic needs then ok, good for you.
But I' d like to live a life with more content than that. I like to experience things and create things together with my fellow humans. I' d like to do stuff that not only keeps me alive, but stuff that makes me progress as a human being.
Admitedly, lots of bad stuff has come with the knowledge we humans have accuired, but lots of it has been for good as well. If we continue to learn and progress then I' m sure that the future will be much brighter than what it is right now.

That' s bullshit. We managed fine 1000' s of years ago. Fucking monkeys and lions are doing fine without governments. Shit, if WE didn' t have governments, monkeys and lions would be doing even better.

As I said, we aren' t merely surviving like the other species on this planet. We are truly alive.
If we wanted to, we could wipe out every species on the planet. That' s what another animal would' ve done to ensure the dominance of their own species. But we humans have accuired an intellect so great that we care for more than our own survival or our own dominance.
Of course, lots of people are still caring about nothing more than themselves and their needs but they cannot come far since we have a society based on rules and discipline. This prevents chaos.
If we didn' t have governments then someone somewhere would' ve amassed great power and would' ve probably conquered everthing in his sight regardless of cost.
Btw, there were governments 1000 years ago although they weren' t as advanced as todays. Which is why there was more suffering back then.

In those 1000' s of years, we did not get on fine, did you ever read a history book? its full of violence, slaughter, religious crusades, and murder.

Now I would be foolish to think those things dont happen today, but not to such a large degree, we live in a soficated world, we dont kill people for something minor, we dont have horribley rich and horribley poor.

Without our Goverments, the world would be still suck in the middle ages.

In those 1000' s of years, we did not get on fine, did you ever read a history book? its full of violence, slaughter, religious crusades, and murder.

man has existed for 60 fucking million years you idiot. 60 million. Kingdoms, dynasty' s, republics etc have only existed in the past couple of millenea. Man survived without leaders and armies for millions of years. Our species doesn' t NEED governments to survive.

If all you want to do is to stay alive and satisfy your basic needs then ok, good for you.

No, it should matter what I want. We shouldn' t be fucking with nature. If i get a disease or get fucked up, then i should go on life support and have my body pumped full of chemicals, i should die.

If we continue to learn and progress then I' m sure that the future will be much brighter than what it is right now.

But what progress have we made?! We' re ruining the damn planet, melting the fucking ice-caps and increasing global warming which in turn causes freak weather spells like tsunami' s and floods. What about tearing up the land and cutting down rainforests so we can build more fucking things?!

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

But what progress have we made?! We' re ruining the damn planet, melting the fucking ice-caps and increasing global warming which in turn causes freak weather spells like tsunami' s and floods. What about tearing up the land and cutting down rainforests so we can build more fucking things?!

Majik, A couple of Black Metal bands you should listen to when you find yourself ranting like this (I do all the time!) Anaal Nathrakh and Zyklon.

Alternatively look to the progress from a two button NMES controller to a tilt operated Wii controller for playing Zelda

man has existed for 60 fucking million years you idiot. 60 million. Kingdoms, dynasty' s, republics etc have only existed in the past couple of millenea. Man survived without leaders and armies for millions of years. Our species doesn' t NEED governments to survive.

You' re right, we don' t need governments to survive. But I wouldn' t want to be alive if it weren' t for our governments as life would be shit without them.

No, it should matter what I want. We shouldn' t be fucking with nature. If i get a disease or get fucked up, then i should go on life support and have my body pumped full of chemicals, i should die.

We aren' t fucking with nature as much as you believe. Millions, maybe just hundreds of thousands of years ago there where toxic gases coming to the surface through volcanos and similar cracks and those gases could kill every single animal within miles.
What we humans are doing is just a piss drop in the ocean compared to what nature does itself. Or are you going to you say that the ice age was our fault?
But I' m not defending what we' re doing with nature. It' s wrong. But only through our mistakes can we learn and that' s just what we have.
If you want to die when you get diseased then go ahead. I don' t understand what' s wrong with people who wants to live even though they get diseased.

But what progress have we made?! We' re ruining the damn planet, melting the fucking ice-caps and increasing global warming which in turn causes freak weather spells like tsunami' s and floods. What about tearing up the land and cutting down rainforests so we can build more fucking things?!

First of all, the latest big tsunamis were caused by earthquakes. Events of such scale like earthquakes doesn' t get affected by humans.
The other things like tearing down rainforests and melting the ice caps is a side effect of the industrial revolution, not governments so blame the companies! But lately we have learned that nature doesn' t have an infinite amount of resources and that' s why alternative methods are being developed. Methods which could only be developed though a strong society with consious minds. This is thanks to the governments since they have to care about the future of their nations and the will of their population. The knowledge we have have created an strong opinion among people that the nature must be treated with care. The governments have to listen to this in order to keep strong. Most companies are now trying to find wasy that will limit the abuse of nature.
Maybe not in the U.S. though since their government is weak (rules by the companies) and the knowledge among the common people is bad but that just proves my point that knowledge and a strong government is important.

Ginjiro iv' e read what you said and to be honest I can' t believe that you actually believe this ' ' what' s wrong with people who have diseases and want to live.

You know what breeders do when a puppy isn' t strong enough to be a ' ' champion dog' ' ?....they kill it...same with horses i' m not sure about other species. Yet us humans kick up a big fuss when it' s one of our own and the doctor says to turn off the machine...what makes us so much more superior?. Isn' t that the same superiority complex that ended up in a lot of establishments that were later abolished?. Aside from that do you think it makes sense for someone to stay alive when all they can do to communicate with you is the odd dribble down their front and the occasional groan?.

You' re right, we don' t need governments to survive. But I wouldn' t want to be alive if it weren' t for our governments as life would be shit without them.

Strange, i figured it' d be much more peaceful without people in gross positions of power.

But I' m not defending what we' re doing with nature. It' s wrong. But only through our mistakes can we learn and that' s just what we have.

No, we will be FORCED to alter our ways or face extinction. Overpopulation and the degradation of the o-zone layer coupled with the increase in greenhouse gasses could very easily wipe us out.

It' s predicted that the human population will have reached 9 billion by 2050. If we don' t start using alternative power soon then the pollution problems will simply increase.

Ginjiro iv' e read what you said and to be honest I can' t believe that you actually believe this ' ' what' s wrong with people who have diseases and want to live.

You know what breeders do when a puppy isn' t strong enough to be a ' ' champion dog' ' ?....they kill it...same with horses i' m not sure about other species. Yet us humans kick up a big fuss when it' s one of our own and the doctor says to turn off the machine...what makes us so much more superior?. Isn' t that the same superiority complex that ended up in a lot of establishments that were later abolished?. Aside from that do you think it makes sense for someone to stay alive when all they can do to communicate with you is the odd dribble down their front and the occasional groan?.

Yeah, well most people I know get pretty upset when they think about how breeders treat animals. So instead of saying it' s wrong to cure the sick, I' ll say that it' s wrong to kill the weak.
Ok, if someone who' s weak wants to die himself then it' s ok. It' s his choice. But as long as there is will and means, a life should be saved.
If someone gets so sick that you can' t cure the poor guy then it is up to him. If he still wants to stay alive, then let him. Obviously he still enjoys life so why kill him?

Anyway, this the " strong survives, the weak dies" stuff is bugging me. Being a strong individual doesn' t necessary mean that you' re resistant to diseases or super-smart. Being strong can be anything depending on the circumstances. That' s why it' s important to keep all kinds of people alive since we are all strong in one way or the other. A thousand years ago the ability to do lots of things simultaneously would' ve meant nothing. But in todays complex society it is a really good thing. So you never know.

The whole idea of only letting the strong survive is stupid. Then we should just kill of everyone exept one guy and one girl who both happen to be super perfect. And then we' ll kill of every single species expect our own since they' re weaker. How logical is that?

Strange, i figured it' d be much more peaceful without people in gross positions of power.

And when you' re out with your girlfriend and this horny big guy who' s stornger than you sees her and decides to kill you and rape her, then what? No government, no laws, no police. It' s called suffering and I don' t like that.

No, we will be FORCED to alter our ways or face extinction. Overpopulation and the degradation of the o-zone layer coupled with the increase in greenhouse gasses could very easily wipe us out.

The overpopulation will come to a halt. Only in poor countries with weak governments will the population continue to rise too much. That' s why we need stronger governments all over the world. The o-zone layer and greenhouse gasses can and will be taken cared of if the knowledge is spread. But if people are like you and only care about their own survival then I understand why everything will go to hell. Thankfully, it seems there is enough people with the intellect to care about more than just themselves.

It' s predicted that the human population will have reached 9 billion by 2050. If we don' t start using alternative power soon then the pollution problems will simply increase.

There' s new technology on the way. If we keep learning and spreads our knowledge then things will turn out fine. One big problem is that lots of people are using too much energy, more than needed (americans and their damn cars) and they buy products that hasn' t been adapted to the environment (like sports cars and old school light bulbs). But if we spread our knowlegde and have strong governments, this can change.

It' s called natural selection dude.

But ginj my argument isn' t ' ' let the strong survive' ' what I was trying to point out is that this idea of someone with a disease or less stronger than your norm should always be given a chance is obviously flawed. Because like a lot of things in life there are so many inconsistencies i.e why do it to animals, why campaign for stuff like it then stay away from people with sars, aids, or lepracy etc,.


You also said something like what humans are doing does' nt make much of a difference to the globe ...really?.