Gangsta, everything you said in that post was absolute crap from top to bottom. You have not researched the 360 AT ALL and that post proves it. My God, that was the largest load of crap ever. I' m gonna disect the entire thread later, but right now I' m playing FFVII and that' s definately more important than pwning you in the face. Just to let you know though, you know nothing about the 360. Seriously, asolutely nothing. I' ve done more research on it than you ever will. I like tech stuff. you obviously don' t have a clue about it.

Oh, just to start though. that unified architecture that you don' t think I know anything about doesn' t refer just to the GPU like you said. It' s refered to the entrie system hardware as a whole. It' s when all of their piplines are unified together and are directly linked to one another. Good job trying to act like you know what you' re talking about.

Also since developers do have the final consoles, technically the system is out because they are using it right now. It' s t a limitted audience but it is out. My God dude, you seriously have a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the tech stuff. Again though, I' ll disect your entire trhead later tonight and prove pretty much everything you said wrong... again.

There are Seriously some Stupid people around here !!! since when Consoles compare to PCs !!! you think that pc' s will produce XBOX 360 quality games in 1.5 ?? 2 years ? Hell nooo... Just look at The Original X box, it' s Technolohy crap now right?? 733 MHz and 64 mo (ram or Graphic card can' t say for sure) but hey didn' t it run Far Cry ?? Doom 3? Splinter Cell 3? Half life 2 ?? and they all look decently good... yeah yeah yeah those games run with lower resolutions than pc' s + lower textures but Still !!!! if i Put that very Graphic Card in My pc , the game won' t even launch ...

that is to say, In the world of consoles games are so much optimized that even with a much lower profile Spec than current pc' s you can run the game with an equivalent stunning look.... what' s amazing now is that these consoles and for the first time exceeded by far current PC' s !!! even if ATI produce the same GPU that' s in the 360 much later as it says, you' ll still have to wait a loooooong time to see xbox 360 graphics in PC games...

to sum it up, I think that " PC Games" will have 5 years to catch up these next Generation Consoles .... Funny thing I still didn' t see Gran Turismo Graphics in pc' s

It' s fact that Graphics of PC games surpass those of consoles quite fast and Doom 3 while a better game for xbox has much more detailed and sharp graphics with more light effects - I haven' t seen Far Cry on a PC but I assume the difference is there.

If Xbox 360 can actually change this ongoin every generation procces than it' s cool.

Rampage you' re so funny you know - unified pipeline is ATI' s technology and it may connect everything but it' s with GPU in mind.

You' re just a silly fool man and I' m ignoring you for real so just write whatever you like you' re not getting a response - use it wisely - it' s the only way your words won' t make you look dumb.

Bye mister develper :)

The unified architecture refers to the system as a whole running together and was not created by ATi. The unified archtecture refers to both the GPU and the CPU running off the same memory. The unified shader is used in the GPU though. It allows the GPU to run at 100% at all times compared to the normal 40%-60% that most graphics card use since pixel shading and vertex shading are being sent trhough different pipelines.

See, when you leave out little things like the word shader you completely change the meaning of what you are talking about. So while you may have infact thought you were right, you were refering to the wrong thing just because of that one little word.

I' m somewhat annoyed at the moment because I wrote a several page retort to your completely incorrect posts starting from page one of this thread. It took a long time and then my computer crashed. It' s quite annoying having so many hours of stuff thrown out and I really really don' t feel like typing it all again. I could have spent that time playing FFVII. So basically since you don' t want to be informed and actually know about the consoles since you are going to ignore me (I' m hurt), I' ll just say f*ck it. this isn' t what the topic is supposed to be about anyway. I' ll just have to live with the fact that I know I' m right and your wrong.

*walks into the room and surveys the damage*

Smells crispy. But back to the controller. You could say that I am slightly disappointed - skeptical is probably a better way to describe it. I wont jump up and down and proclaim Nintendo are blowing the world apart with innovation just yet. I' ll want to hold it first. However I' m a little more open to the idea of this controler than I am with the DS touch screen... something I' m still yet to see the real merit of.

I don' t like the fact that you have to dock the controller with a peripheral just to get the most out of it. It' s a foolish move on Nintendo' s part. The interface between game and user should always be a complete package. I don' t want to have to buy a docking station or an extra peripheral for every game I buy. Somehow I feel that Nintendo is almost letting some of that arrogance go to its head. I hope the docking station doesn' t look like that pregnant whale of a controller IGN mocked up.

But maybe I shouldn' t be suprised if it does. Nintendo are first and foremost selling to the Japanese who always have and will continue to buy the consoles and games by the millions. Gamecube might not have been a top seller outside of Japan, but it was for a while at least, making higher profits than Xbox due to actually making money off sales, rather than losing them.

Whether we " foreign devils" like the system, think its just for kids or love it for being an interesting new innovation which may well be brilliant and will at the very least be a fun diversion like the DS, whatever we think, Nintendo don' t give a rats arse. As one of my friends so eloquently put it today, they could re-release the GameCube with a pine-scented box and still make profits.

I agree, the docking station I hope is just an " option" for those who can' t live with the idea of having 2 bits of a controller held seperately. Just to get an idea of how it' ll feel I held a PS2 controller on it' s side in one hand to see if I could move the analog stick well, and it moved surpriseingly well. Considering that' s how N64 basically worked with holding the analog by the middle I suppose that shouldn' t have been a surprise, but try it if you' re unsure. I do hope they make the remote bit a bit more ergonomic on the back, easier to hold = longer playing time.

docking station should be just an alternative. It should be cheap considering it doesn' t actually have to have much circuitry or mechanics inside of it, simply signals telling the original revolution controller what to do, but I' d like to avoid buying one at all costs.

This is actually part of a conversation about the Rev. and FPS' s. I' m just gonna quote what the original poster said and then my reply afterwards.

I thought at first it would be a great idea for FPS' s. Being able to have a ' mouse-like' interface to have more precision and quick aiming. The only problem with the remote is that you would have to sit directly in front of the TV and you would have to rest the remote in your leg during extended play. Holding the remote part of the controller up for 2 hours would be really tough.

But that is where the problems start. Please no flaming. These are legitimate problems to the FPS' s with the new Revolution Controller

There are 360 degrees in a circle (duh). So in the new Metroid Revolution game (if they decided to use the remote), to look 180 degrees you will have spin it 180 degrees to look behind you. This will not work.

They will have to compress the sensitivity where 360 degrees are reduced to maybe 45 degrees. So 22.5 degrees to the left is actually 180 degrees to the left and 22.5 degrees to the right is actually 180 degrees to the right.

Next Problem:

If you have played with a mouse in your favorite FPS, then you know the problem of running out of mousepad room. You then have to pick up the mouse and move it to the center of the pad to keep looking your desired direction. This is basically resetting the physical postion of the mouse with out changing the onscreen positon of the view.

So lets say that you are playing a FPS with the new controller on Revolution and you need to reset the position because of " running out of angle" to look around. Is there a button to do this?

Here is a better example:

This example assumes that when the player is walking forward the remote is looking straight ahead.

You start the game and begin to run forward with the analog stick. You look to the left by moving the remote to the left with the desired angle because there is door that you want to go through. You push forward on the ananlog stick to begin walking through the door. What is the right hand doing with the remote? If you move your hand back to the right to simulate going forward, it will then look back the other direction.

The only solution that I can come up with is the ' Z' button on the back of the remote. If you could push the ' Z' button and then the remote is in ' look' mode, and when the ' Z' button is not pressed then the remote is basically off, this would work for recentering the the remote in the forward position. This control control scheme could be reversed where when the button is pressed then it ignores motion of the remote. This is not really optimal for competitive play IMO.

At the moment I' m very skeptical of using the Rev controller for FPS' s. My biggest concern is of course aiming.

In the typical mouse/keyboard setup a mouse offers amazing accuracy. Besides that, you can get away with being " lazy" . You can aim your reticle at a certain spot and basically wait (i.e. camp) a position. Or, if you' re strafing you can keep your mouse pretty well centered on the target. And with a controller you can get away with the same (albeit a mouse provides more accuracy and is quicker). Futhermore, if you take your hands off the right analogue you can still hit your target with simple strafing. And basically with a mouse/controller you can be both accurate and lazy at the same time.

Now the the Rev. remote numerous problems arise. Not just the problems quazl mentioned above, but other little annoyances. On a controller pressing the trigger button to fire typically won' t jerk your aim off. So if I have you centered for a headshot, and fire, chances are I' m getting the headshot.

On the Rev. remote, everytime I press a button to fire I' m jerking my aim off center. Don' t believe me, go grab any remote control. Press a button and watch how much the controller shakes. Now imagine trying to aim/fire like that. The shaking is going to screw up your aiming badly. But it gets worse.

Not only is it nearly impossible to keep your right hand steady, you also have another analogue stick attached to the remote. Now you gotta try and keep both hands steady in tandem. Since the cord for the left analogue is fairly short you won' t be able to rest your left hand in your lap.

Which leads to another problem mentioned above, fatigue. There' s a reason light gun games are short and simple. Eventually people get tired of holding their arms up. Now imagine instead of a 30 minute light gun game, you' re playing a 10 hour FPS. No matter how much you love the game, fatigue will keep you from playing an extended period of time. And again, that' s 10 hours of serious aiming issues you' re also going to have to deal with.

Remember, with a light gun it' s easier to keep your aim because you' re not pressing down on the gun, you' re pressing back on the trigger. Although the Z button on the back will most likely be used for firing, hitting the Z button is still going to jerk your aim off. Also, with a light gun you can use your other hand to steady the gun if you want. Not with the Rev. where that extra hand will have extra responsibilities.

So I think the Rev. remote offers up more problems than answers for FPS games. Another fear of mines is that Rev. games will actually be dumbed down to compensate for poor aiming. I can see a lot of games having insane amounts of " aiming assistance" to fill in the holes of the Rev. remote. Of course Nintendo has a " traditional" controller also. But if devs start making games suited more for the traditional controller than the innovation of the remote is going to waste.

I think the remote will excel in light gun type games, but not true FPS' s (and probably a few other genres). Games on the Rev. will probably have to be dumbed down, and to help battle fatigue, games probably won' t be that long either. Even worse, Nintendo hasn' t shown any real playable games. Even worse than that, developers don' t appear to be jumping all over the remote idea either. Sure some are " praising" it, but they sure aren' t annoucing any games for it.

I think there are a lot of legitimate concerns to take into account before fanboys come in claiming the remote to be the greatest innovation of all time.

I see what you mean about pressing a button and missing the head shot because you jerk your aim off. I think though that the firing button could be one of the buttons on the analog stick and then you wouldn' t have to worry about that. That' s how I' d set it up if I was making the game otherwise you' re right, that would be a problem. Who knows, developers may want more realism though, and that is a problem you have with real weapons is keeping the gun steady as you pull the trigger. I' d prefer the other though.

In the photos of the rev controller up close the cord does indeed look short in that you would jerk it round as you are firing and stuff, but watching the Iwata video the cord doesn' t look near that short, now I' m not sure if it' s different in the video, or just my eyes fooling me, but I have to think this issue will be adressed and handled so you aren' t jerking one end with the other, especially since Retro is heavy into Metroid Prime 3, and that' s the type of game where this would be a problem.

I think you guys are forgetting about the directional pad on the remote. The way I see it is the analog stick will be used for looking up and down and turning, while the directional pad will be used for going forward, backward, and side to side (straffing). That' s basically the same setup as the original Turok. The only difference is now you can use the remotes sensor function to aim the targeting reticle on the screen. I think (hope) that' s ALL it' s used for. I don' t think it will be used for actual movement. I guess we' ll just have to wait and see, though. Should be interesting to see how they do it.

As far as " jerking off my aim" (doesn' t sound too pleasant!), I don' t see that really being a problem, once the controller has been used for a while. Maybe the first three minutes you use it! Once you get used to it, though, I don' t think it will be an issue. Hell, I' d have to say that it would make FPSs more realistic. Anyone who' s ever fired a real gun know that you have to compensate, slightly, for trigger-pull.

I shoot guns all the time (I have a fairly good collection) and trigger pull really ins' t a problem. If you go with the basic pistol you have the palm of your hand going directly against the back of the gun which automatically takes care of the packwards force of the trigger pull. Then again you aren' t supposed to pull, you' re supposed to squeeze.

With the Rev controller your grip isn' t positioned for the natural correction of the squeeze. From what I' ve seen you are supposed to hold the remote level pointing directly at to center it. That puts your wrist at an angle and slide your fingers apart at an angle as well. This places the hand in a postion that isn' t naturally comforable or stable.

A rifle or shot gun actually puts your hand and wrist in a position close to that of what the Rev controller is at. The difference comes in two different forms. 1- The wieght of gun causes you to grip tighter( the moment of tension is brief unlike playing a game for long periods of time) and use a second arm for keeping it steady. 2- Most rifles and shot guns feature a shoulder rest to further compensate for trigger pull because the gun is rested firmly in place.

The Rev controller is much more like a remote than a gun. As lotusson pointed out, when using a remote, it does shake whenver pressing a button. If the controller were built more like a gun I' d probably like it a bit more. I' ll whip up what I mean in photoshop. I' ll post it in a sec.

And me and my brother/dad has shooted with ak5 rifle its weight 5 kilo tt.
In swedish army.
But never with a pistol,and a controller like that remote will ofc never get a perfect feeling,however it can still be very cool.
And just feel fun and easy to play with,and hopefully that rumblepack will also help out with the feeling.

You just made me realize how annoying that rumble pack will be when trying to aim and hold the remote still.

Btw, any ideas how this will work for sport games? Baseball seems like a given, but the other ones I question.

Hey everyone...I am new to this site and I am also a born again nintendo fan. Not from watching the teaser for the Revolution...although that did help to spark my evergrowing hard-on for everything that is Iwata, it actually happend when I figured out how to use the emulater a couple of years, I started playing anything with the plumbers name on it. That which used to be a fun little gaming hobby is now what some might call an obsession. I don' t think I am a " fanboy" although I am not for sure what that means exactly. (someone who is annoying about thier obsessions?) But on the other hand I probably would buy a Toaster Oven full of moldy bread crumbs if they put the nintendo seal on it...which unfortunaletly might as well be the case with a few of the titles I' ve picked up but for the most part I enjoy the . Oh and I named my cat Mario....anyway I am getting way off the subject of this furum...
I have read most of your comments about the new system and although I dont know anything about the specs or the blue tooth processor gigabite overdrive flux copasitators of the new systems I would like to add my 2 cents just the same.
I am really happy with the way nintendo is taking the system. It' s creativity and game innovation is what brought me back to the video game. I used to be about to sit down and play a game for days and if I got stuck I would mash those A and B buttons (simultaneously if needs be) until that level had been conquered. Now my attension span is way worse and if Im still stuck after 15 minutes that game is going to be lit on fire and thrown out the window at a squirrel (flaming ninja disc of squirrel death) See what I mean no attension span...so games that are different and aproachable are what I desire.
I think the controller/remote? is a great idea. I just bought a DS and am loving it more and more everyday and to imagine a 3-d touch pad is mind blowing. I am imagining all sorts of ways to create new gaming experiances. They could put a head attachment so you would actually be looking around or holding two and making a steering wheel....or maybe using one to steer and one to point out the window and shoot thug zombies or something. They could make a shoe that would allow you to play some crazy soccer games? Its wireless so you could play games where you had to throw and catch it with a partner. I also imagined some sort of main menu that was in 3D, and then I turned into Tom Cruise from minority report investigating my own futuristic murdering self but maybe thats going a bit far....I really like the four player drinking ga....party games that the nintendo puts out and with endless mini game possiblities I think we can expect those as well.
To the person who was complaining about the amount of in game footage shown at TGS, this is Nintendo we are talking about...you know this right? I mean you are aware that it is Nintendo that is putting out this new system? I mean just the fact that we are complaining about not seeing the footage shows us that there marketing sceme is working. Does this make sense? Anyway....
I am also worried about the left handed joystick but I am hoping that they make a wireless substitute to solve the problem of your left hand having to shadow your right. I think I had some other points but this already way to long and probably wont be read by most so I will leave it at this. Thanks for listening to my ramblings....

I just had an idea of how an fps might work with this controller. What if you held it vertically, or in other words straight up? You could twist it to turn and tilt it to lean and look. It would actually be pretty cool to play an fps like that. They would just have to have it set so that twisting 90 degrees turned you 180 or they could make it so that once the controller is twisted a certain amount it keeps turning in game(like a joystick turns you). That way, you could have control and have the angle problem fixed.

Why do you and everyone else keep talking about FPS games all the time like they are the main genre of games. There are lots of other types of games, and in my opinion, better genres than FPS.
And so what if the Rev-controller doesn' t work to well with FPS games? Unless you are a violent Texas gun nut, you should be able to buy a console even though it has no FPS games at all.
And by the way, the XB360 and PS3 controllers will still be worthless for FPS games since they have the same design as the XB, and PS2 controllers and those are NOT good FPS controllers. I' m quite sure the Rev-controller will be so much better than those.
Right now, mouse and keyboard are the only controlls suited for FPS. Unless, of course, you ARE a violent gun nut who doesn' t care about gameplay as long as you get to shot people. Then you will probably be happy with the " normal" controllers. But then you should also se a psycologist :P

FPS on XB360/PS3? -No thanks

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Why do you and everyone else keep talking about FPS games all the time like they are the main genre of games. There are lots of other types of games, and in my opinion, better genres than FPS.
And so what if the Rev-controller doesn' t work to well with FPS games? Unless you are a violent Texas gun nut, you should be able to buy a console even though it has no FPS games at all.
And by the way, the XB360 and PS3 controllers will still be worthless for FPS games since they have the same design as the XB, and PS2 controllers and those are NOT good FPS controllers. I' m quite sure the Rev-controller will be so much better than those.
Right now, mouse and keyboard are the only controlls suited for FPS. Unless, of course, you ARE a violent gun nut who doesn' t care about gameplay as long as you get to shot people. Then you will probably be happy with the " normal" controllers. But then you should also se a psycologist :P

FPS on XB360/PS3? -No thanks

I disagree with pretty much everything you' ve said. FPS on consoles are fine. While it' s true that the mouse and keyboard setup is ideal, the joystick is fine, especially for games such as Halo. While games like Unreal and Quake are " twitch" type FPS, and run at blazingly fast speeds, Halo, Metroid Prime, and the like are more realistically paced, and therefore don' t need the super-fast aiming of their PC counterparts.

I, personally, am not a violent " Texas gun nut" , but I do enjoy playing all sorts of FPS, as do quite a few people here. I' m sure we' re all interested in how the new rev controller will interact with ALL our favorite genres, but for fans of shooter type games, it will REALLY be interesting, I' m sure.

ya I agree chee saw. I am also not a gun nut....gunnut....that sounds kinda like a gun shaped donut.....mmmm....gunnut......aahaahahhh...

and another thing is Nintendo has shyed away from the FPS genre on the cube...something that I dont mind too much because I have never been a huge fan of the genre to begin with. But if Nintendo can make amazing new FPS that draw more people into buying the system maybe they will realize the uniqueness of the system and check out other games as well.

ORIGINAL: Chee Saw

I disagree with pretty much everything you' ve said. FPS on consoles are fine. While it' s true that the mouse and keyboard setup is ideal, the joystick is fine, especially for games such as Halo. While games like Unreal and Quake are " twitch" type FPS, and run at blazingly fast speeds, Halo, Metroid Prime, and the like are more realistically paced, and therefore don' t need the super-fast aiming of their PC counterparts.

I, personally, am not a violent " Texas gun nut" , but I do enjoy playing all sorts of FPS, as do quite a few people here. I' m sure we' re all interested in how the new rev controller will interact with ALL our favorite genres, but for fans of shooter type games, it will REALLY be interesting, I' m sure.


I see your point and to be honest, I do like playing FPS games with joysticks on consoles . But not as much as on a PC. I just exaggerated to hopefully get some people thinking.
My point is that people are complaining about a controller (they have never used) because they believe it' s not suited for FPS games when the controlls of today aren' t actually ideal for FPS either. So if the strange setup with two analog buttons work, then the Rev-controller should also work.
About Halo and Metroid Prime, I don' t consider Metroid Prime to be a FPS. It' s more a FPA (first person adventure :P) and the fact that action is toned done makes a fast responding controll unnecessary. It doesn' t even control as a normal FPS. Halo works pretty good with normal controls, I agree, however even though it is a fun game it doesn' t have the same feeling and precision as other FPS games. You could say that the gameplay in Halo had to be changed in order to fit the normal controller. I mean, Master Chief can take quite a lot of damage, something Samus also can and this lowers the realism. I think that if Halo would have been made for PC the controls would have been more precise and the game would have been better.
Also you say that MP and Halo are " more realistically paced" ...um have you ever been in a war? People who have been in military training/wars and documentaries showing battle situations clearly show that things happen faster than you can react.
Even though the Rev-Controller will feel pretty strange at first I think we will get used to it just as we got used to the analog sticks.
I didn' t say that all people who like FPS were gun nuts, but if you ONLY like FPS and judge a controller and an entire console because of how FPS games play on them before you have even seen a single game on it, then it' s pretty unfair.
But as I said, I see your point.

Crap, I accidentally deleted a part of the text so that the quote got outside of the box. Looks stupid but you should be able to figure out what is what.

GI: You’re always outspoken about what you think about hardware. I was wondering if you had a chance to see the Revolution controller and what do you think about it.

Itagaki: I think it’s good if it can be used as a sword or something like that – it would be really different. It would be very tiring. If you use that with my games, and it’s speed you’ll end up with a bigger right arm (laughs). Frankly I think Nintendo’s hardware presentation is just great. I just saw the trailer, and saw it multiple times and I was laughing my ass off. To be top notch you need to be able to make people laugh.



Btw in a interview with itagaki creator of doa/ninja gaiden for gameinformer he said xbox360 is gonna be the best console,since ps3 is to complicated to work on.