Forum Navigation
Welcome to Kikizo's Forum Archives. Login and user functionality is no longer available -- this is now a permanent archive of forum content.

Prev Thread Prev Thread   Next Thread Next Thread
 senate votes over marriage amendment next week
Change Page: 12345 > | Showing page 1 of 5, messages 1 to 20 of 87
Author Message
Alley_Hater

  • Total Posts : 340
  • Joined: Jul 05, 2004
  • Location: America's Finest City
senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 06, 2004 18:11
r u for or against same-sex marriage?

-i am against
Sharon

  • Total Posts : 960
  • Joined: Jun 23, 2004
  • Location: NS, Canada (living in Rhode Island)
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 06, 2004 18:17
What ever suits yer fancy. Doesn' t bother me in the least. If it makes you happy, why not!
Mass X

  • Total Posts : 4491
  • Joined: Mar 22, 2004
  • Location: Plymouth, MN
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 06, 2004 20:07
Im all for it. Not like they taking over the world, or conspiring to do so. And unlike certain groups they dont force their ways onto others.
Spacepiston

  • Total Posts : 164
  • Joined: Feb 23, 2003
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 06, 2004 22:46
Riiiiighhht...theres no such things as the " Gay Agenda" .
Smiaras

  • Total Posts : 49
  • Joined: Jun 03, 2004
  • Location: Dublin, Ireland
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 06, 2004 22:57
Everything is supposed to be equal yet it seems that some people are more equal than others.

For some god forsaken reason some people to think homosexuality is learned behaviour or something, as if same-sex parents are going to somehow pervert the mind of their child. But then if that was the case are our parents not twisting our perceptions as we speak!? There' s one for the X Files kids
Joe Redifer

  • Total Posts : 4481
  • Joined: May 24, 2004
  • Location: Denver, CO
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 00:08
I am not against gay marriage, but I don' t see a need to change the Constitution. Some people are really freaking out about it, though.
Alley_Hater

  • Total Posts : 340
  • Joined: Jul 05, 2004
  • Location: America's Finest City
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 04:08
i just dont think it' s a sacred thing to do, marriage = man + woman, marriage was that and should be that, after all, we can see the adaptability of man to woman and vice versa (you know, reproduction, men have 1/2, women have the other 1/2). I support civil union, but " i pronounce u man & man" ?, uh uh, no way...
Joe Redifer

  • Total Posts : 4481
  • Joined: May 24, 2004
  • Location: Denver, CO
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 05:39
Well marriage really is a church thing, so there' s no way a gay couple could be married " proper" . A civil union or a " legal marriage" would be the best they could do. I say give gay couples the same legal benefits (taxes, hospital visitations, etc) through some sort of civil union and be satisfied with that. But if they want to call it " marriage" , I really don' t care either.
Smiaras

  • Total Posts : 49
  • Joined: Jun 03, 2004
  • Location: Dublin, Ireland
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 09:49
People talk as though we hold marriage as something sacred still....doesn' t america have the highest divorce rate in the world?
PS2Poodoo

  • Total Posts : 273
  • Joined: Jun 12, 2004
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 18:13
I don' t see how it can be anyone' s decision to stand up and say " no, you can' t marry who you want to marry" . Although I don' t necessarily agree with the lifestyle, I still understand that I can' t tell someone else how to make their decisions
Rampage99

  • Total Posts : 3161
  • Joined: Feb 24, 2003
  • Location: Florida
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 07, 2004 19:58
I' m against gay marriage. That has a lot to do with my religious beliefs and the fact the way of the world is man and woman unite to make children-it' s how the world works. If they do allow gays to unite don' t call it marriage. Marriage is man and woman, make up a new name for it.

Btw, for one of the posts above- " If it makes you happy, why not!" There' s a lot of things that make people happy that simply shouldn' t be allowed.
immortaldanmx

  • Total Posts : 2966
  • Joined: Nov 13, 2003
  • Location: Virginia, USA
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 08, 2004 01:18
Whatever floats your boat.
Alley_Hater

  • Total Posts : 340
  • Joined: Jul 05, 2004
  • Location: America's Finest City
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 08, 2004 04:51
looks like Rampage99 shares my perspective, I can see where he' s coming from and I bet he can see mine too.

Btw, for one of the posts above- " If it makes you happy, why not!" There' s a lot of things that make people happy that simply shouldn' t be allowed.
yea, like killing and stealing and all those other stuff
l l l
l l l
l l l
------ ll ------ --------l-------- -------ll-------
l l l
l l / \
l l / \
/ \ /---------\
/ \ L L
Joe Redifer

  • Total Posts : 4481
  • Joined: May 24, 2004
  • Location: Denver, CO
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 08, 2004 08:10
Being gay is analogous to killing and stealing? How?
Spacepiston

  • Total Posts : 164
  • Joined: Feb 23, 2003
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 08, 2004 17:03
Look, Marriage is for a man and woman. Thats it. This is not an " equal rights' ' debate or anything else like that, though many mis-informed people and the gay agenda want you to believe it is.

First " marriage" is not a right. Just like driving a car is not a right. If a couple of gays want to play " man-and-wife" thats just too bad! Mainly because they are not man and wife! They are 2 people who want to live an alternate lifestyle, and they feel that their alternate lifestyle should be accepted into society even though they dont necessarily understand that all the other " alternate lifestyles" (i.e. marry animal, marry family, marry more then 1 person) would also have to be considered.

Secondly, marriage is a religious thing, not a secular thing. Secularists in this counrty hate the fact that Christian values helped form this country and that they are such a large part of our society. Tough! But that does not stop them from trying to erase anything and everything related to God from this country.

The whole point of gays wanting to be married is to undermind and weaken the institution of marriage through-out the world. If gays want the same " rights" as married people, I guess they should look to civil unions or other existing laws that already grant them the same benefits as married couples enjoy.

This ammendment will pass whether or not some of you like it. Why? Because a large majority of this country still knows what marriage is, and we are going to make sure that it stays between a man and a woman. Gays can have their civil unions or whatever.

If your gay and you want to play man-and-wife, then grow up. If you want the same benefits as married people thats fine with me. I am all for some other form of union that offers u the exact same tax benefits etc. But dont you dare call it marriage, and dont try to rip-off the marriage ceremony either.

I now pronounce my rant over.
Alley_Hater

  • Total Posts : 340
  • Joined: Jul 05, 2004
  • Location: America's Finest City
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 10, 2004 06:43
Christian values were a major founder of America, but i don' t think i agree with marriage totally being religious (although I believe that is the origin, I' m a Christian myself) , there are a lot of secularists out there who agreed and lived by marriage as it is and was.

Joe Redifer: I meant killing and stealing to be applied to " things that make people happy that simply shouldn' t be allowed." It was just an example to that, not anything related to gay or lesbian subjects.

Spacepiston: I think I am positive that the amendment will pass. If u take a look at http://cbn.com/CBNNews/News/FMA_topprioritylist.asp , it will show you only 21 senators who have not voiced their support for the amendment, that leaves the majority of 79 senators who HAVE voiced their support. Failure will be an unlikely result. For more info, go to http://cbn.com/CBNNews/wire/040709c.asp
< Message edited by Alley_Hater -- 7/9/2004 6:44:27 AM >
Terry Bogard

  • Total Posts : 3915
  • Joined: Apr 29, 2003
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 10, 2004 06:50
I' m ALL for it... Live and let live I say.
Joe Redifer

  • Total Posts : 4481
  • Joined: May 24, 2004
  • Location: Denver, CO
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 10, 2004 06:58
Spacepiston-

If they ammend the Constitution to say " Marriage in da United Statez shall consist only of da union of a man and a woman" , then people can still technically marry family members, transexuals, etc etc etc etc. This is it' s own separate issue, and does not obliterate the possibility for other issues.

I would like to see someone give me a long term outlook on how allowing gays to marry will harm society.
Terry Bogard

  • Total Posts : 3915
  • Joined: Apr 29, 2003
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 10, 2004 16:32



I would like to see someone give me a long term outlook on how allowing gays to marry will harm society.


All it will really do is piss off the homophobes in our society ;)
A good thing!
Alley_Hater

  • Total Posts : 340
  • Joined: Jul 05, 2004
  • Location: America's Finest City
RE: senate votes over marriage amendment next week - Jul 11, 2004 03:05
Ok, Joe, I found an article( http://cbn.com/CBNNews/News/040510a.asp ) , i read most of it, maybe you can find your answer here.

Cause and Effect: The Benefits of Traditional Marriage

By Paul Strand
Washington Sr. Correspondent


In Scandinavia, the first place where gay marriage was formally legalized, it appears it is actually helping to kill off the traditional form of marriage: a man and a woman committing for life and making babies.


CBN.com – (CBN News) - Scientific studies have now proven that married people are healthier, wealthier, and happier. For example, married men live about 10 years longer than unmarried men. And marrieds spend only half as much time sick and in the hospital as unmarrieds.

Linda Waite literally wrote the book on the case for marriage.

Waite said, " The research evidence is just overwhelming that becoming married improves mental health." And on average, married people make three times as much money as singles.

Family policy analyst Bridget Maher said " The median income of a married-couple family is about $65,000, and this compares to about $21,000 for single parents."

Former Harvard professor and noted social scientist James Q. Wilson writes frequently about marriage. He said, " The vast majority of people do better if men marry women. The sexes complement each other. Having a woman in your household makes men better, and having a man in your household makes women better."

As for kids, social science has done more than 2,500 studies indicating a married man and woman raising their own children offers clear advantages to those kids no other family structure can.

One example is that children raised by both their parents are seven times less likely to be poor than those raised by never-married moms. They face hugely reduced odds of being beaten or molested.

Waite said, " Children raised by married parents complete more schooling. They achieve better occupations later on average. They' re more likely to stay married themselves. They are more likely to avoid teenage pregnancy and early sexual behavior."

In other words, a successful marriage is the place most likely to produce successful children. Waite says what gives marriage so much magic is the vow at its core: a man and a woman promising to be true " till death us do part."

Waite added, " The benefits of marriage come in large part because people make a public, legally-supported, socially-supported, religiously-supported vow to stay together for the rest of their lives."

But there is evidence that gay marriage will shake this tradition of commitment and monogamy because homosexuals are likely to bring their famously promiscuous lifestyle right into marriage.

In the Netherlands, where gay marriage is already legal, the average " committed" gay relationship is lasting just 1.5 years.

Dr. Timothy Dailey, Center for Marriage and Family Studies, said, " These so-called committed homosexual couples had an average of eight extra-sexual partners per year."

An even more startling statistic that one study found is that 43 percent of white homosexuals slept with 500 or more men, and 28 percent had sex with a thousand or more men.

Dailey said, " It' s really something radically different and do we really want to subject children to this kind of environment?"

" Oh, don' t worry!" say some same-sex marriage advocates. Gays won' t pervert marriage; marriage will tame gays. But gays may have no intention of being tamed.

One popular activist wrote that homosexuals should seek to " ...redefine the institution of marriage completely...The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake...is to transform the notion of ' family' entirely." But why would they want to do that?

Talk show host Tammy Bruce is herself a lesbian, but she doesn' t support homosexual marriage. She warns that some gays are what she calls " malignant narcissists," striking out at whatever they think threatens them, or does not measure up to their idea of an acceptable lifestyle.

Bruce says, " In the gay community, you are looking at a contingent that wants to literally destroy the nature of tradition in this nation, because they feel in their very narcissistic way, that it' s not good for them."

So, many homosexuals insist on having it both ways. They want marriage, but without monogamy; or all the benefits of marriage, but without the permanent commitment. And that will surely have ripple effects in the heterosexual world.

You can already see it in France and other European countries that recently created civil unions to give gays something that better fits their lifestyle, something like " marriage lite," easy to get into and out of.

But it is heterosexuals, by the tens of thousands, who are signing up for these civil unions, preferring to get the benefits of marriage without the marital vows.

And in Scandinavia, the first place where gay marriage was formally legalized, it appears it is actually helping to kill off the traditional form of marriage: a man and a woman committing for life and making babies.

Secular social scientist Stanely Kurtz said, " What we see in Scandinavia is marriage, quite literally, is dying." He points out gay couples can' t make babies. So their Scandinavian marriages are erasing the idea that making babies and being married are all wrapped up together and inseparable.

" The result," says Kurtz, " is that 60 percent of first-born children in Denmark are born out of wedlock, and there are some parts of Scandinavia, believe it or not, where as many as 80 percent of first-born children are born out of wedlock. And these are the most liberal districts where the acceptance of gay marriage is the highest."

Already, many Scandinavians weren' t marrying until after their first child. Now, since gay marriage there is furthering the idea children and marriage are separate subjects, more couples are waiting to wed until after their second child.

Soon, they may just skip wedlock altogether.

Kurtz remarked, " In Scandinavia, same-sex marriage is part of a collection of factors, which first break marriage apart from the idea of parenthood and second, lead to the elimination eventually of marriage itself."

Social historian Allan Carlson, author of " The American Way," said, " Homosexuality, by definition, cannot create children, so it' s a trivialization of the institution."

The U.S. is ripe to have the same thing to happen here. Already the marriage rate is down almost half from a high in the 1950s.

Five-and-a-half million American couples are deciding to just shack up rather than wed. And American women are having more than 1.3 million babies out of wedlock in the average year.

Wilson said, " When 30 to 70 percent of all children born in the United States this year will grow up with a single parent, you realize this is not a trivial matter."

Starting next Monday, Massachusetts will legalize same sex marriage, the first American state ever to do so. It will literally be bucking all of history.

Wilson said, " No human society has ever made homosexual marriage its norm."

But once that begins, it could snowball into legalization of just about any relationship someone wants to claim is marriage, like bigamy and polygamy. Because, if it is no longer fair to restrict marriage to one man, one woman, then how can you set any limits on it whatsoever?

For instance, Kurtz warns that advocates of polyandry, which is group marriage, have begun to use the same arguments that gay marriage advocates use.

Kurtz said, " They have all sorts of arrangements, you know, two women and three men, any kind of a combination, a kind of group marriage. And polyamorists (individuals who support multi-partner relationships and families) have already had a law case arguing that their marriages should be recognized."

Carlson says history shows the pairing up of men and women to form families is the very cornerstone of civilization, and it is fatal for a society to weaken that bedrock of marriage by encouraging alternatives.

" It' s a way of committing societal suicide," said Carlson, " because it winds up taking the one institution that is vital to the community' s future, and reducing it to simply another relationship."

Wilson said, " Every human society has depended crucially on the bonding of males and females."

In the 1930s, British anthropologist J.D. Unwin studied 86 cultures that stretched across 5,000 years. He found, without exception, when they restricted sex to marriage, they thrived.

Strong families headed by faithful spouses made for bold, prosperous societies. But not one culture survived more than three generations after turning sexually permissive.

Noted Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found no culture surviving once it ceased to support marriage and monogamy. None.

Historians say it is not surprising that societies fall at such times. As citizens fail to re-populate, as they concentrate on their own pleasures, their society weakens. The aged are left with few to defend them.

Carlson said, " When all these things happen, societies begin to shrivel and die. And it' s happened many, many times. This is how civilizations disappear."
< Message edited by Alley_Hater -- 7/10/2004 3:06:45 AM >
Change Page: 12345 > | Showing page 1 of 5, messages 1 to 20 of 87

Jump to:

Icon Legend and Permission
  • New Messages
  • No New Messages
  • Hot Topic w/ New Messages
  • Hot Topic w/o New Messages
  • Locked w/ New Messages
  • Locked w/o New Messages
  • Read Message
  • Post New Thread
  • Reply to message
  • Post New Poll
  • Submit Vote
  • Post reward post
  • Delete my own posts
  • Delete my own threads
  • Rate post