The MGS4 demo was in real time but that deosn' t mean it will look like that in game. Sure the cutscenes will have all they great dust going on and all those particle effects and huge amounts of things going on on-screen at the same time... but that' s not when you' re actually playing it. MGS2 and 3 both used the gameplay engine for their cut scenes but the cutscenes had boosted effects, higher poly counts, and plenty of other touch ups. As far as them freezing the movie and looking around, that' s still easy to do in a cut scene because the AI still is in, the physics still aren' t in, very few lines of code are running. It' s basically freezing a premade animation and looking around. While I trust MGS4 will look pretty damn close to that I can' t say it will be identical.

Hey it was me who said that old man was not that good as the tech demo - and it' s still the truth - the demo was showing complex facial expresions and that' s what I meant.

Killzone was such a big lie that only Sony could' ve gotten away with it(and even Killzone DEVS said it' s " what they want k3 to look like :) ).

MGS4 Realtime? Cool , but did you see a PS3 there somewhere?HEll maybe behind the desk Kojima had Xbox 360 playing it? :)

Kojima Actually is one of those people I trust - They showed MGS2 and then they delivered but realtime for now means realtime on workstations - and the same was with gears of war before more advanced devkits appeared.

Ken Kutaragi is a really big fuckin' liar and hypemaker and YES PS2 was a fuckin lie that faced the reality as soon as it was released.

Jaggies ,long loading times,framerate issues, worse visuals than GCN games (multiplatform titles) - that shit was daily bread.

We' ve heard 77 mln polys / s or 20 mln with effects and Nintendo said 6-12 mln in actual gameplay -and wow GCN is much more advanced it turns out.

MS said 100 mln polys/s but at least that shit was true.

Oh by the way anyone here remembers how PS2 were supposed to guide missiles and that' s why PS2 was " banned" in china?

All those hype stories and stuff won' t make fool out of me again - hell no.
They did great with PSX so no doubt I expected a lot from PS2 - and then I got a High Res PSX with some bonuses.

I wish PS3 ws as powerfull as they say - those games Sony " owns" are so cool no matter how they look.

I really hate those Sony fuckers and liars but I don' t feel that way about PlayStation.
Still it' s the only console I need to check serial number before buying (so many flaws in some models).

And Fanboys can say " That' s bullshit mine works fine" well then that' s just yours and you were lucky.Never before has any company done anything quite like it - Doesn' t matter if it was Sega , Nintendo , MicroSoft -those systems are good systems they don' t just BREAK.(please don' t point out that some percent of Xbox consoles was scratching DVD' s - that' s not comparable to so many years of flaws one after another)

Did you know that some people mod their ps2 slim only so it could last longer (sum0ne fix)?

From Tech point PS2 was WAAAAY overhyped and it had worse Online structure than DC (Sega.Net is actually what MS based Live on with Sega' s help) plus so many design flaws ...in fact just as many or more than PSX.

And BTW Gateway was the biggest PS2 lie and no it' s not devs fault that Sony said they have a game looking like a movie and posting real london photos.

We' ve heard 77 mln polys / s or 20 mln with effects and Nintendo said 6-12 mln in actual gameplay -and wow GCN is much more advanced it turns out.

MS said 100 mln polys/s but at least that shit was true.

Actually if i remember right it was 130 before release that they was aimin for,and not 733 mhz but 800 mhz...

Btw in PSM magazine they said killzone was real but running at 5 fps speeded up to 60... with alpha kit...
Remember that xbox360 alpha kit had problem playing cod2 good,it lagged and frooze at some part.
So we will see..
I dont belive they can deliver that great graphic with killzone2,i think they might at ps4,but they said 5 fps with alpha kit...and we all know how slow that is too though >_< but we will see..

What?! PSM is on F*cking crack.Guerilla themselves came out and said the video was prerendered CG. Guerilla didn' t even do it in house. They had their outside CG team do it.

" I think it' s sad that so many gamers seem to be concerned with which next-gen console will be the most powerful, especially when the difference will be marginal (think Dreamcast/PlayStation 2). Don' t be fooled by Sony' s fancy tech demos. As the poster proved, there is a noticable difference in graphical quality between early tech demos and launch titles. Now imagine what Xbox 360 games will look like in a couple of years. They will like the same as PS3 games in that time, if not better. The only difference is that Microsoft has Xbox Live, which is much more exciting than Blu-ray."

Actually the ps2 was noticably more powerful then Dreamcast, the 360 and ps3 will be much closer then those two, the only real difference (not including games) is that ps3 has BR and 360 has supreme online support. I' m going with a 360, its coming out sooner and will have Huxley and oblivion (so far the only next gen games I want to pay for).

Yes xbox live kick ass,but its irratating that i have to pay 80 dollars for one year for it...when i myself is often the host of all games with my 8mb internet.
If sony took money from all their consumers for their online games they would manage to make something similiar but not as good,but also, a lot of those great ps3 titles suits more singel player.
And often i buy console games for SP not MP,however games like crimsonskies,halo2 and some sports games really kick ass over MP.

Btw in PSM magazine they said killzone was real but running at 5 fps speeded up to 60... with alpha kit.

Quezacotl you' re posting crap as " FACTS"

Killzone demo at 5 fps? on Alpha kits?

God what is wrong with you ? :)

Like Rampage said !!Guerillas!! said that it' s what they are !!aiming for!! with graphics and that it was a !!fancy video!!.Everyone knows it since E3.They even said which studio made the god damn !!movie!!.Sony keeps !!lying!! that it' s real and that' s just funny.
How can you believe all that crap - You should read more respected sites that tend to distinguish facts from fiction.

most of u are exagerating waaay too much

" And Fanboys can say " That' s bullshit mine works fine" well then that' s just yours and you were lucky.Never before has any company done anything quite like it - Doesn' t matter if it was Sega , Nintendo , MicroSoft -those systems are good systems they don' t just BREAK"

I agree with u that Gamecube is a solid console but man you screwed it up when u mentioned the X BOx as well. there are 3 models of the X BOx, the first two models have a shitty driver dvd, it' ll break after awhile and hat' s what happened to mine, my system doesn' t read anything anymore, checked out some forums for a solution and found out many people have the same problem. as for my playstation 2 which is moded (like my x box) well let me tell you it is very known that moded systems get there life reduced but anyway both systems have flaws in their Optical drives except for X box in the latest version...

For my X box i put it aside because first i can' t repair it and the only solution is to plug in a PC optical driver and secondly it' s not worth the 60$ since there no more interesting games at all

for my PS2, glad hat sony offers to sell Lens and so i just changed the dying one and all works fine.


Master Rampage you said " MGS2 and 3 both used the gameplay engine for their cut scenes but the cutscenes had boosted effects, higher poly counts, and plenty of other touch ups" you have no evidence and whiole i think you' re probably right but then i think that may be teh camera view is not close enough to see what you can see in the cut-scenes. if you had a look at the forum i want you to visit, snake look exactly the same in gameplay as in the cut scenes (at least for your plygons argument) ... so that' s what made me confused... anyway the game look good for a current gen... And rampage i think you' ve already played Halo 2, isn' t it the same thing for its cut scenes , graphics were " a lot" better than in Gameplay.


The most disapointing console i ever owned (and still own) is by any doubt " X box" ... Graphics are supposed to be " at least" 2 times PS2 (i' m just not really sure that it was 3 times accorfing to a graph that Microsoft published before its launch) , and after all i think Game cube has the most beautiful games at all, at least it wins just by picking up Resident Evil 4... i don' t see in any game what MS claimed years ago . what are the most impressive games in the X box ??

hmmm Dead or alive 3/ultimate does it look twice better than Tekken 5? hell no

hmmm Forza/ Gran turismo 4 well things get funny here...

The chronicles of Riddick was an impressive game to me

Ninja Gaiden ? i didn' t really like the graphics, the enviroment is so so and textures were low (but characters look outstanding) God of War on PS2 is awesome even if the quality is not as good as Ninja Gaiden' s but the overall game look absolutly more beautiful, i think it has to do with developers


here we have two conclusions that can be made: Either MS overhyped or PS2 was UNDERESTIMATED...

if X box was lacking on line i would dare say that X box is one of the worst systems ever created, I live in morocco and 95% are cracked (there is no officiel games in the market), i had the opportunity to play so many games in this current and previous Gen, on X box AAA titles are extremly rare i can count them with one hand... shame to MS


And let me repeat myself again, IF X box with that very low specs nowadays can run Far cry or dead or alive or whatever impressed you on that system, what would expect from X box 360 or PS3 which Specs are even more powerful than the most powerful Pc ?? i mean geeeez those are just consoles optimized for gaming i then expect Games like Killzone 2, Final Fantasy 7 demo tech, Gran turismo vision and Metal gear 4 or Gear of wars... Helloooooo THAT' s WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT from AAA titles!!

I have the old xbox version,and its use a dvd thompson,hans' t break down yet,got a few disc errors but not more,basically im fine with it.

I have to agree about Gamecube - Metroid Prime , Wind Waker , Eternal Darkness , RE 1 , 0 Those games (doesn' t matter how made) are the most beautifull games of this generation.

I' ve never heard of xbox DVD flaws and there were 5 or 6 models not 3.
Anyway I don' t know about it but I have to admit that I don' t buy it - I' ve been through many forums (I modded my X as much as it can be modded) and never heard of it.

I don' t agree about Xbox graphics power - I have no doubts it outperforms PS2 in terms of hardware - but what you give examples for is DEVELOPERS TALENT and ARTISTIC APROACH that Xbox games (like PC games) lack.

Forza vs GT4? MAN have a one look at Rallisport Chellange 2 - the best looking racing game ever and one that is more fun than Sega Rally and collin together.
If you haven' t played RC2 for Xbox U' ve missed this generation - REALLY.


Doa 3 Vs TK5? those are huge arenas in DOA3 and very interactive plus they still look at least as good as TK5 (even though the art direction is very different)- no comparison.

Riddick? Check Doom 3 :)

NG had some awesome and some mediocre places so I can' t argue here.

Gangsta i didn' t say that tekken look better than DOA !! i just said that DOA doesn' t look twice more beautiful than tekken 5... say DOA 10/10 and tekken 5: 8/10

yes i missed rally sport challenge and that' s because i don' t like rally games but according to many pros, forza is the best looking racing game on x box, could the be wrong??

i forgot about doom 3 in x box but that' s because i get it only on pc but and yeah i agree doom 3 (xbox) looks better in terms of quality than reddick on (xbox)

We' re debating which console had the best graphics this generation now? You guys honestly think Metroid and RE had the best graphics?! RE4 was definately one of the best but Metroid definately wasn' t. Best graphics by far this generation= Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Hands down. There is no arguement. It is simply the best graphics availible on any console to date. It actually rivals games that are coming out next gen.

Oh, and Abasoufiane, you' re completely right about the Halo2 cinematics thing. They looked better than gameplay even though it was ht in game engine. It' s easy to spiff up character models,enviroments and effects during a cut scene because no other code is really in use which greatly frees up system resources. That' s what Kanomi does in there games. MGS4 will definately be close to what they showed at TGS but my guess is it will be toned down when you are actually controlling Snake.

Best graphics this generation: Namco Museum Battle Collection!!

RE5 was definately one of the best but Metroid definately wasn' t.

Resident evil 4...

My mistake...

I would have to say yes and no to the question.

No, because up until recently it was pretty far from what it was said to be able to do. But, none the less it made it I guess.

Yes, because it took a while to actually meet its claims.

If any console showed what could eventually be done then Im sure the choice of console would be a bit harder. I would much rather see what Im gonna be getting myself into at the start, rather then what I get to do in a few more years.

My opinion is just that opinion, I really have no facts behind what I just said, maybe Ill look later and revise it.

SC 3 is awesome and has incredible effects , sharp Textures and awesome lights ,but it didn' t look better than Metroid Prime .The world they created on Tallon IV was so real yet so unreal at the same time - like Chozo Ruins.I just like that kind of artistic aproach.

But yes it' s hard to argue that when it comes to Effects and stuff SC3 is closer to next generation then this one and I totally understand when you say it' s the prettiest game - it' s just not what I think.

About RE4 - I don' t know if you played the game long enough, but it was cool at the begining and then the quality dropped a bit - and it was clear that PS2 can handle it at that point.

I don' t care how it works if it' s fresh and gorgeus (Metroid,Viewtiful Joe,Wind Waker,F-zero).
Style over " quantity" for me.

Forza is no match Graphically - RC2 - have a rent or something and you will like Rally games and it' s in 60fps :). - Really man just try it to see how good a game can look.

And YES you don' t have to take press comments that serious.I think GT4 surpasses Forza in a few levels.

Tekken Vs Doa? The difference between 10 and 8 is huge - it' s not like you' ll have tekken 5 graphics and real , lifelike people in Doa - It' s not that big of a difference in hardware.The difference is 4 times bigger arenas , clean look (FULL SCENE antialiasing) , sharp textures , lightning technique and other touches that make you go " 10/10"

But It is true that the last gen of PS2 games is really a big step forward over previous graphics for the system (DMC3,T5,GoW).It' s amazing at some point (GoW).
Still if you want me to buy PS3 for the power - make sure I get that " power" sooner than 5 years from launch - cuz you know that Xbox is going to be there kicking ass since day one.

And Rev might even have a better looking games than Sony' s baby for the first year.

I guess this is more of an attack from beyond the grave then anything else.
When the ps2 was in development to dethrone the dreamcast, there were little white lies of promised power, or in dreamcast standards unachievable power.
But like i said all along, and some people are starting to realize, hardware can be pimped for all the merits it doesn' t have, because the software can hide all it' s faults.
So, imagine what the dreamcast would be doing right now if sega were still in hardware?

Yeah Shenmue ,F355 and so many others just ruled back then - when I got a PS2 I felt like it' s a step backward - but since MGS2 I kinda realised it' s not all crap :)
I wonder which one really is more powerfull.I know DC had more Ram , but that might have been his only advantage.

you think DC can run games like God of war? Metal gear 3?? Gran turismo 4?? resident evil 4?? ...

I wonder which one really is more powerfull

that question is really silly from you Gangsta