Whiteguy, your posts are very interesting - I like to read all this about the processors - Cool stuff.

Nomatter what console this game lands on, it will not look this good, the sega lindbergh hardware is far and away better then any home console this coming generation.

Now I whether or not I believe lindbergh is more or less powerful than next-gen systems is without importance at this point. However I don' t think that either the 360 or the PS3 will struggle with this game - it is not very impressive (as in WOW factor) and the only hinderance to this game looking as good on 360 or PS3 would be down to the developers proficiency with the hardware.
A few years down the line when lindberg is really pushed technically, maybe then if it is more powerful we will see games the consoles can' t do. But at the same time we will see if the statement is genuinely accurate.

Very true, sega has been known to port difficult games to the home console with very little loss.
And i believe it' s very possible to port this game to both consoles, you are also right that this is first generation software for this arcade platform.

We indeed will see how well it works out.

I think it looks pretty good, the models look very good compared to past attempts, and it' s running at dizzying frame rates.

Though, i really wish Mr, suzuki would take the project back and get rid of those stupid flashes of light.
My only complaint i spos.

I don' t know how you can compare CELL or Xenon (and yes, as far as I' M concerned Xenon has some big advantages over CELL), when everything we know so far is based on THEORETICAL performence.

I dont quite forsee 360 and PS3 having to run Photoshop (a nice benhmark for CPU' s), ...instead i think i can probably only see them running games.

You work on a Navy base?! You' re a salior?! That' s nice. ...It' s not something i ever wanted to do, but nice all the same i' m sure.



You haven' t seen, touched or have the qualifications to make an educated statement regarding CELL and Xenon?! Well i have a shitload of official paperwork on both chips, i have qualifications in IT and Computer Science and i' m in my third year of a games development degree. And y' know what?! I still wouldn' t compare Xenon or CELL to anything else, other than CPU' s in other consoles.

Oh, and for someone who claims to have some technical knowledge, employed by the US Navy even, ...

Where it say' s: RAM: 184 pin DDR SDRAM PC3200(400 MHz) 512 MB × 2(Dual)
Does that mean it comes stock with 1024megs of ram?

...that doesn' t exactly inspire much confidence.

And if vista turns out really great, people will want to use it.
And will forsake apple because it sticks to non standard hardware, there is no way microsoft would rewrite vista for power pc.
That too influanced apple.

Actually you can install Windows on every intel based mac - and it' s no longer " hacking" .

The day Vista launches (to keep up with features from Mac OSX Tiger) apple will release Leopard.

Still anyone who needs some apps from PCs can use his windows OS for it.

Windows is always the same - new features ,same problems - nothing has changed since win 95 - the moment they fix one problem 2 more are born.

I don' t understand it anymore - are we comparing IBM to Intel or the old P4 Vs new Cell and " Xenon" ?

Tell me one last thing - are you telling me that P4 3,2 Ghz is faster than Xenons 3 cores (3,2 GHZ each) combined?

You keep telling me how P4 is better than PowerPC and stuff but benchmarking tests show something completely different.

P4 3,0 Ghz has the performance of G5 1,8 - and I know what I' m talking about - I spent a lot of time reading about PowerPC vs Intel.

Intel is a great chipmaker but it' s not like P4 is future proof - every piece of electronics gets dated very fast (especially CPUs).

The reason apple users stay with apple is because they,

1.Look great
2.Have optimised cooling solutions without fan noise.
3.Have beautiful OS which is stable and has no glitches.
4.Everything runs fast year after installation (you windows gets slower with each day)

it' s as simple as " it just works" as opposed to windows where it just doesn' t work like it should no matter how much you try.

Oh and by the way ...I don' t have a MAC - I' m using a Windows based PC and I know how to use it.

And will forsake apple because it sticks to non standard hardware

What do you mean nonstandard? Intel Cpu , Nvidia GPU.

I' ll tell you what' s nonstandard - the moment they managed to boot XP on MacBookPro (intel) they were stunned how much faster everything is comparing to PCs with the same specs.

Architecture is everything.

You may have a lot of knowledge but there were no tests of final Cell CPU yet so you can' t say much about it' s performance.

Add to this that the cells architecture itself is the biggest innovation in CPUs lately and that it can be no direct comparison to older CPUs like P4.

The one thing that everyone knows by know is that it' s a very hard to program CPU (very) - and that could be the reasoning behind refusing to use it for some people like you navy guys or some companies.

I do howerver realise that large part of my arguments on Cells performance is based on some leaked info and official specs - so yeah I could be wrong when it finaly arrives.That doesn' t mean it' s crap cause nave won' t use it though :)

New videos of VF5 look gorgeous - some stages so beautiful ...the animation , shadows ,lightining ...sure it can be ported to 360 (and with upgrades) but what hurts the most is the lack of ONLINE - like Y Suzuki said it' s impossible to implement.

And it sux for me cause I have no one to play with (and my girlfirend won' t play with me if I win all the time) :(

E3 should enlighten us as to which manchine it will be ported to.

I' m not certain SEGA would want to have to directly compete against Tekken 6 (a launch candidate) and therefore may ahve opted to take on DOa4 instead.

Majikdra6on
Your experiance may vary, and that' s all fine and good, but i am telling you in plain english, and in terms you should understand, with your vast reservoir of newly gained hardware knowledge.
You may have very well proven my point about the cell not running photoshop, but on the contrary, it' s sony' s answer to the pentium everything, it was marketed to more then the navy, more then apple.

And my dealing may not have been hands on, but i work for a company that placed it in tests that were more then hands on.

I should try to get my hands on some of these federal results, because more then benchmarks, they also talked alot about the reduculous trials the navy put these things through, things like spraying a running unit with saltwater to watch how it recovers.

Pretty interesting stuff all around.

I am not a sailor, my company is contracted to the navy, but i am not a sailor.
If you stay in school and get a degree in computer science this is one of the many vocations you might want to consider.
Because even though i live very close to both microsoft and nintendo, the jobs are slim because places like digipen are a hot commodity, leaving us college edu-cated professionals looking like we don' t have a clue.

I really hope you aren' t doubting my credentials, i' ve worked quite hard over the last decade, and i hope the posts i' ve written show it.
But even us old dogs might learn a thing or two, so perhaps you should show me the error of my logic. I am open to suggestions.

Yeah, i was sure the lindbergh only came with 512, because there is still little known about how they plan on running that games, if there will be a hard drive to cache, will an OS be used..Lots to learn yet.

Chris Ferro right?!

At 27 you consider yourself and " old dog" ...Really?

You may have very well proven my point about the cell not running photoshop, but on the contrary, it' s sony' s answer to the pentium everything, it was marketed to more then the navy, more then apple.

See, i understand what you' re saying. But it sounds like you presume that the version of CELL to be paced inside of PS3 is exactly the same that they' ll be using in TV' s and such.

The damn thing has been designed to be scalable and the development of the chip has cost in excess of $420 million.

It' s based on POWER4 architecture which as everybody know has an L3 cache and is damn fast.

Not only is it scalable but it has variety of different configurations and it' s optimized for single precision floating point computation.

Now when you look at the high overall floating point performance of Cell it dwarfs the capabilities of the SIMD unit in CPUs like the P4 and the A64. But since it' s geared towards single-precision calculations, then processing double-precision, as used in desktop PC CPU' s it' s performance drops considerably to comparable levels.



If you want to continue this discussion, start a new aptly titled thread. Otherwise lets get back on topic. Threads that go too far off topic usually get locked.

Actually you can install Windows on every intel based mac - and it' s no longer " hacking" .

I agree, i think that was apart of apple' s choice to go intel, i think apple is less about what goes on the box, and more about the box.

P4 3,0 Ghz has the performance of G5 1,8 - and I know what I' m talking about - I spent a lot of time reading about PowerPC vs Intel.

this debate has been done before, and both sades have merit, but it' s like the tortuous and the hare, the hare being x86.
While the intel chips are off dealing with rouge lines of code, the power pc is chugging along on a clean path of code.
This is the vicous cycle with x86, and the real reason it' s still popular, because you don' t have to babysit the software you write for it, the hardware does all the work.
Anyway.

What do you mean nonstandard? Intel Cpu , Nvidia GPU.

I' ll tell you what' s nonstandard - the moment they managed to boot XP on MacBookPro (intel) they were stunned how much faster everything is comparing to PCs with the same specs.

I was thinking in the preswitch context, i think i should have made that clear, my bad.

You may have a lot of knowledge but there were no tests of final Cell CPU yet so you can' t say much about it' s performance.

Also very true, what the navy used was a cell with only 4 spe' s on it, but john (the IBM guy) assured us it was as close to what the end result will be as you will find.

And just because the alpha we used was a stinker, doesnt mean after a few revision we might consider it.

All it would take it for the price to be right, and intel to drop the ball.

Add to this that the cells architecture itself is the biggest innovation in CPUs lately and that it can be no direct comparison to older CPUs like P4.

The idea of cell is sound, and i do hope it' s one day realized, but after reading the reports of things being taken out, i started to doubt the cell would be a viable alternative, and after seeing the navy results, it was cemented for me.
Only time will tell i guess.

I think this topic has gotten was too large, and has gotten off track, and that' s pretty much my fault, i made a statement and then tried to back it up with facts and technical reviews, and pretty much i' ve seen people agree and disagree with equal ammounts of validity.

But i' m really hoping my mad skillz will land me a game, c' mon kikizo editors.. I' ve been a good boy, i think.

Let me quote myself.

Otherwise lets get back on topic. Threads that go too far off topic usually get locked.

So, ..Virtua Fighter 5?!

Majikdra6on
We are going in circles i think.

Yes it will be a great game indeed.

I' m suprised to see people saying it doesn' t look that nice. Especially when everybody that plays it says DoA4 is gorgeous...

I don' t get it.

I mean, i' d rather play VF than Tekken or Doa any day of the week, on gameplay alone, but VF5 isn' t ugly, it looks great from where i' m sitting.

I think because the game more then likely has a long way to go, or people prefer the art style of some of these other games more.
I think it looks pretty sweet, lots of cool self stencil, instead of those bloby virtex shadows.
The speculars look good too.
A good use of Cg to be sure.
I only wish rendermonkey was as full featured.

I made a VF5 wallpaper some time ago - you can have it guys :)

I wonder if they' ll ever change to more realistic sound effects in Virtua Fighter. Not that I have anything against the current but it would be fun to see what it would sound like with " next-gen" sound effects.

The Xbox Live service might actually be able to handle it. Compared to normal PC connections, it runs silky smooth.

I agree that making VF5 exclusive for 360 would be a horrible mistake. Either release it as a Sony exclusive, or make it available for both PS3 and 360. Otherwise it' s not going to sell at all in Japan with their current market penetration.

If SEGA opt for PS3 then they' re forced to go head to head with Tekken 6.

Now i' ll be the first to state that VF is far superior to Namco' s offering, ...but has a Tekken game ever sold badly, anywhere?!

All Tekken games sell well in every territory and if someone were to check the total sales to date, i think you' d probably find that any of the Tekken games on PS2 have sold more than VF4/Evo.

My guess is that Soul Calibur 2' s sales on PS2 are higher than VF4/Evo' s.

Soul Calibur 4 can' t be avoided because Namco has already said it will be multi-platform. But SEGA would have to wait until there was more room on the market for another beat em up because Tekken 6 will probably be a launch title.

Like you said SoulCalibur is selling very well and is very appealing for most gamers.

Tekken however can' t be considered dangerous to VF.

Both games have very loyal fanbase that would never touch the competition.

And Tekken didn' t hurt VF much on PS2.

I haven' t felt gameplay in Tekken since T3 (even Tekken 5 felt extremely unplayable) and depth alone isn' t enough for me.

SoulCalibur is one of my favourite games , VF and DoA - I enjoy all of them equally - I would have chosen VF above all others if I had some friends to play it with. (shit)

The Xbox Live service might actually be able to handle it. Compared to normal PC connections, it runs silky smooth

LIVE servers has a bandwidth limit (i forgot how much).. Ive experience MUCH more lag on live than most PC games.