Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?!

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whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 08:25
Well, i shouldn' t say better....
But more effective.

f3hunter
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 08:30

The differences between VF3 and VF4 aren' t subtle, they' re pretty obvious!


Yep, it baffles me who would think different tbh.

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 22:55

The pentium 4 is a much better CPU all around, better then both the xbox 360, and cell combines, OOO processors are always better then risc.


You obviously haven' t got a clue about hardware ...

immortaldanmx
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 23:34
Actually the best processor is the G5(made by Intel for Apple), which, if Im not mistaken, is what the 360' s processor is based on.
I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

dirtydog
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 23:49

ORIGINAL: immortaldanmx

Actually the best processor is the G5(made by Intel for Apple), which, if Im not mistaken, is what the 360' s processor is based on.


Intel don' t make G5s for Apple or for anyone else...

I believe it is true to say that the P4 and A64 do more work clock for clock than the cpu in the 360 and PS3.
< Message edited by dirtydog -- 11 Apr 06 15:49:39 >

immortaldanmx
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 11, 2006 23:55
Scratch that, IBM, not Intel.
< Message edited by immortaldanmx -- 11 Apr 06 15:56:17 >
I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 12, 2006 05:15
G5 is not the best today (it has it' s years) , but you' re right - it simply outclasses P4.

Cell is the new big thing in CPU' s (it' s inside PS3 by the way) and right behind it - 360 CPU ..then there' s nothing .........still nothing ...........nothing again ....and right there that little dot far far away - that' s where P4 is.

Terry Bogard
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 12, 2006 05:17

AMEN!

Only a true pro would say that.


Lol, I' m not close to EVER being a pro but I do love the series, Especially part 1 and part 3.. Part 2 I like a lot BUT my most favorite part of the game is the final battle against Dural underwater - that right there remains the greatest final boss battle I' ve ever experienced in a fighting game, EVAR!!!

I LOVE part 3 for various reasons, one of which is mainly because of the Dodge button. To me dodging was implemented incredibly well in Virtua Fighter 3, better than any other fighter I' ve ever played... For example, if I start running towards an opponent they' ll often times try to smack me when I' m within range. While racing towards them, when close enough I can hit dodge to sidestep their attacks and wind up to the side or behind them as their moves hit nothing but dead air.

I HATE dodging with joysticks - I LOVED having that button..

While I do like Virtua Fighter 4, I never really warmed up to it as best I could because AM2 had giveth a dodge button in Virtua Fighter 3 and then they tooketh away in Virtua Fighter 4! I still harbor a tiny grudge and won' t let go until they giveth back!
Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 12, 2006 05:34

You obviously haven' t got a clue about hardware ...


I' ll help you out to understand,
this following url will help you better understand the key differances in cisc VS risc, and why hardware wise, cisc is better.
It' s in english, and while i understand you' re english is very good, some parts might be very technical, so please post some phrases and i will use an online translator to turn them to polish for you.
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-1.aspx




I believe it is true to say that the P4 and A64 do more work clock for clock than the cpu in the 360 and PS3.


Very right, however the differance is not so profound anymore, power pc cores have been adopting much the same ideaology and methods as it' s CISC counterpart.

But what' s most important to note, is that the cell & the xbox 360 don' t have much of the same functions of both power pc and x86 procs.

Most important is out of order processing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution
< Message edited by whiteguysamurai -- 11 Apr 06 21:45:12 >

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 12, 2006 17:11
I don' t have the time at the moment - I' ll check it back later , but tell me one thing - If P4 is better why would MS or Sony bother so much?

I think it' s as simple as that.

on a sidenote G5 CPU' s in every test on the net outperformes P4 (even with much with higher clock speed)
< Message edited by ]Gangsta[ -- 12 Apr 06 9:20:46 >

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 12, 2006 22:14
Pentium 4s are very expensive compared to the powerpc based alternatives, well not too expensive for a $20,000 arcade unit, if arcade owners start to realize this, they might start building their own arcade machines and sega could just sell the program.

Many people hoped for an pentium 4 based xbox2, but microsoft was more then burned when it came to the price intel wanted to charge, MS continued to pay full price while watching sony lower production prices because they owned every bit of silicon in the playstation.
For the record, microsoft did go to intel again for the xbox2, but intel refused to produce custom chips of microsoft' s design.
So they asked IBM if it was possible, after all, they did gekko for nintendo.
And they agreed, it was very profitable for them.

As for the cell in ps3, well toshiba-sony-IBM, it was their lovechild, and on paper it looks good, you know a cluster of inexpensive cores to work out complex processes.
But in practice, producing this thing is turning out expensive as it is, and tacking on more functions would make the price even higher.
And the cell might not be all it' s cracked up to be, you need the cleanest code in the world to work on this thing, but that also the same for the xbox 360 aswell.

As for power pc, the code it runs alone has to be very lean to get to the same results as an x86 proc, as to say, you would be hard pressed to run programs written for CISC to run as quickly, like how well virtual pc runs on the mac platform, not only does the virtualization take up allot of raw power, but getting mildly sloppy code to work well is nothing short of a miracle, say if you have one of those nice g5s, and you run virtual pc, then try to run something code intensive, it crawls.

But if you turn it around, and run reduced instruction on a CISC, it screams!
Like when that tester' s version of tiger had shown up on bittorrent sites, people started to notice even slow intel/amd based laptops were running os x very quickly.
But that was also before rosetta came along, and pretty much slowed it all down, and they might have changed quite a bit, who knows really.

But, i should get back to the point.
Even though the powerpc for the mac was RISC it still had all those great little add on' s, but none of those add ons are available in either next gen chip (well some are, but not the ones that count)
They should Dis-allow the powerpc " based" tag because even if it' s true, the stock power pc is just better.

So as far as the lindbergh goes, it' s much more powerful all around.

dirtydog
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 01:13

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

I don' t have the time at the moment - I' ll check it back later , but tell me one thing - If P4 is better why would MS or Sony bother so much?


Price, in a word.

By the way, on topic, I am not especially impressed with the VF5 videos - they don' t look much better than last gen to me :shrug:
< Message edited by dirtydog -- 12 Apr 06 17:15:27 >

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 04:20
I have to admit you seem to have a lot of technical knowledge about CPU' s after all.

Still there' s no way that MS or Sony made CPU' s that are worse than some old PC CPU.

It' s nonsense.

360 has 3 cores running at 3,2 Ghz for fucks sake :)

Now I' m talking about Console usage not some calculations and shit.

There' s no way P4 is that expensive - it' s yesterdays technology.

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 06:08
...

What the hell is going on in here?!

Cell and Xenon walk ALL OVER any of the Pentium family, ...all over anything else right now.

Is this actually about Pentium vs PowerPC, or P4 and A64 vs Xenon and CELL?! Because if it' s the latter then there are some incredibly stupid people here.


The pentium 4 is a much better CPU all around, better then both the xbox 360, and cell combines



Don' t get me wrong, the cell and the xenos are no slouch, but a stock pentium 4, or even pre hyperthreading, has more beef to it.


Dude, i don' t know what you do (jobwise), but unless you work in a technical capacity then you need to sit down and stop repeating stuff you overheard some console hating PC nut say. I would LOVE to know what you' re basing you' re view on...

I would LOVE to know who has been running benchmarks on Xenon & Cell and P4 and A64 and has been able to compare them. Please, enlighten me...

Firstly, you say " stock Pentium 4" ... but which one?! Exactly which of Intels 6 Pentium 4 processor cores are you talking about?! All of them?!

Are you talking just an absolute stock single cored Pentium 4, or are you referring to a Celeron or Xeon derirative?! Or are we talking dual cored processors?!



I' m not going to go into a long rant about CELL and Xenon because i' ve already been there and done that. I' m not even going to bother comparing them to your " stock Pentium 4" .

If you knew what you were talking about then you wouldn' t be referring to Xenon as Xenon, because you' re talking about the processor as a stand alone die, and over at IBM it isn' t called Xenon. It' s called Waternoose.

Now (Waternoose) and CELL aren' t just G5' s y' know. Xenon has 3 symmetrical general purpose cores, each clocked at 3.2 GHz and CELL has a single core clocked at 3.2GHz but also has seven SPEs with an eigth kept for redundancy and all 8 are clocked at 3.2 GHz.

Comparing Waternoose or CELL to a Pentium 4 or an A64 is stupid, childish and useless. And what the hell does it matter to you anyway?! Xenon and CELL (although less so with CELL) have been custom built for running games on.

That' s their only purpose!


]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 07:31
Finally something that makes sense.

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 09:34

Dude, i don' t know what you do (jobwise), but unless you work in a technical capacity then you need to sit down and stop repeating stuff you overheard some console hating PC nut say. I would LOVE to know what you' re basing you' re view on...

I work for the united states navy in bremerton washington, at naval sub base bangor.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/facility/bangor.htm
I manage the xeon based servers whom calibrate and maintain passive sonar units.
Sony has at one point come to the navy and other branches of the military to contract out it' s cell technology.
The navy reviewed and decided against using cell, or any other power pc based RISC MPs.
Partly because we have been using windows based systems, but mostly because they have proven to be problematic.
I will agree that the xeon walks over a stock (northwood, revision C class pentium 4) p4, but cell is not even in the same class as the xenon.



Are you talking just an absolute stock single cored Pentium 4, or are you referring to a Celeron or Xeon derirative?! Or are we talking dual cored processors?!


Well, i would venture to say, a single cored pentium 4 800 mhz bus in most cases out performs the cell by a sizable margin, based on the paperwork released to the company that employs me.
Although i can not say i have ever seen a cell, but the whitepapers seem to place it in scope.


Comparing Waternoose or CELL to a Pentium 4 or an A64 is stupid, childish and useless. And what the hell does it matter to you anyway?! Xenon and CELL (although less so with CELL) have been custom built for running games on.


You might want to revise some of that information, the cell has been shopped around to many places looking to sell it as a flat out supercomputer.

We have an IBM representative right here working on base, who has stated all kinks in cell will be worked out, and plans on getting the navy to review it again.
But as far as i know, there has been no windows server editions written for cell.
And we don' t plan on using any *nix alternatives.

Now (Waternoose) and CELL aren' t just G5' s y' know. Xenon has 3 symmetrical general purpose cores, each clocked at 3.2 GHz and CELL has a single core clocked at 3.2GHz but also has seven SPEs with an eigth kept for redundancy and all 8 are clocked at 3.2 GHz.


*looks over past posts* no, i am sure i never made the connection between the cell and a G5, othen then they are both risc, in fact in my last post, i said they should be dis-associated because a " stock" G5 also whoops the cell and xbox 360' s cpus ass.
Yes, Symmetric multiprocessing is nothing new, however the distiction ends there, in the classic sense that all cores are of equal talents, with the cell, there is one General processor, that dictates 7 very specialized processors, none of any have the ability to self correct, and are unable to make ques of information because the cell is cache-less, so if there is 1 minor flawed call made for any of the cell SPEs, the whole cluster has to shut down for self correction.
The same could be said for the CPU in both the g5 and the xbox 360 core, only both contain cache.

I hope i' ve made myself clearer on my stance on both cpus and the logic of RISC easier to understand in one reply.

Thanks for reading.

< Message edited by whiteguysamurai -- 13 Apr 06 2:26:52 >

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 16:27

I will agree that the xeon walks over a stock (northwood, revision C class pentium 4) p4, but cell is not even in the same class as the xenon.


Strange since most technical sites (like arstechnica) and many experts believe that Cell is the biggest advantage of PS3 Vs 360 (CPU wise).


And we' re not talking about how easy it is to program for but how fast it can go.

Navy refused to use Cell? OK but what that has to do with anything? You can' t judge performance like that.

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 17:05
Because they needed something with massive parallel capabilities, and as it turned out, many people were flat out misled about what cell was capable of.

The navy is not the only one who felt the cell was over rated, steve jobs flat out told ken kutaragi he would never consider using cell.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8504/Steve-Jobs-Not-Impressed-with-the-Cell-Processor/

Granted, this is from an xbox page, but it' s true none the less.

" Mr. Kutaragi tried to interest Mr. Jobs in adopting the Cell chip, which is being developed by I.B.M. for use in the coming PlayStation 3, in exchange for access to certain Sony technologies. Mr. Jobs rejected the idea, telling Mr. Kutaragi that he was disappointed with the Cell design, which he believes will be even less effective than the PowerPC."

As for the navy, the tests indicated problems with memory and bandwidth.
And over all performance issues.

The Cell might do well, but only in the playstation.
That is, unless it' s changed.

I will agree, the idea of cell is really great, but for the most part, Multi processors just work better.

One day, maybe after a more practical use is found the cell will be great.
But as it stands, intel can make better, more sophisticated chips faster.

I might edit this later tonight.

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 18:24
Steve Jobs didn' t want Power PC and Cell because of heat issues.

And it doesn' t matter how many people didn' t want to use cell - on paper it looks very impressive (and P4 is something that no respected site would even compare it to) - it' s not out yet in any device so our little chat is based on speculation - but things you said about P4 and those CPU' s (360 and PS3) are just silly.

Apple switched to intel because of performance/heat ratio.

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 19:59
While true, you are missing the point about performance issues related to the cell.
Although the cell is rare, those who have used it are not giving it sparkling reviews.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=13532
" Some have called Cell an Intel killer, which is completely ridiculous," said Kevin Krewell, In-Stat analyst. " The only place where the Cell processor can be considered competition for Intel will be where the Sony Next Generation Game Console competes with the Media Center PC."
What kevin is saying, and what i' ve been saying all along, is cell is nowhere near as fully featured as an intel chip, any intel chip.
And while it might not be fair for me to make this comparison, clock per clock intel (or AMD) chips smoke the cell.
Because it' s all those little goodies included in a desktop processor that make them robust and fast.
And while the cell will fill the needs sony has for it' s game system, it' s just no match for intel' s offerings.

The negative press goes on and on.
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Jun/bch20050613030896.htm

Now before i say something you will just parrot back to me in a quizzical tone, we have to come to an understanding.

What i am telling you is, intel MPs are battle hardened, they have had years of R&D to come up with something to meet the needs of the consumer, if those needs were not met, consumers would stop using x86 architecture.

Now, on the other hand there are some people who want just that- To see the new age of reduced instruction being the mainstay.
Because it' s cheaper and easier to produce something with 1/4 die, and none of the cache, or built in struction sets, because that would open up the market to other manufacturers, including sony and toshiba.

I am also telling you that x86 chips are beefier, and able to do more calulations per cycle, because those chips are built for complex instructions, and are more hardware intensive.

But on the other hand, Reduced instruction cores are weaker in the hardware aspect, this is because those cpus don' t have to make sense out of all the code it deals with, it' s all streamlined, prepackaged for the core.

You might ask, " Well, that sounds great, doing the same on a comparativly less complex core, why isnt everyone doing this?"

The answer is, intel manages to crank out fantasic chips at good prices.
And while these chips get more and more complex each cycle, intel still manages to make them, and the prices still fall.
And unless you can buy a cell cluster for a fraction of the price (the opposite might be true) intel will continue to dominate the market.
And these chips not only are able to run complex code, but are able to run less complex code much faster, a jack of all trades.

Apple finally broke down, they say it' s because of heat issues, but like all of what i' ve been saying, it' s getting harder and harder to resist intel.
The constraints of having to watch your code carefully was getting expensive for apple.
I mean, why not use what everyone else is using?
It' s obvious your production cycles will be split in half, you will get greater performance.
So they broke down.
Nomatter how well the ipod is going for apple, the onset of inexpensive vendors was cutting into apple.
The company was, and still is recovering from a huge financial debt.
And going intel saves them loads of money.

Then, there is the microsoft factor.
The reason apple users stay with apple is because they,
1)look pretty
2)are not windows based.
Now windows has been a running joke to the apple elite, but the word on apple campus is that windows might be maturing, getting better.
And if vista turns out really great, people will want to use it.
And will forsake apple because it sticks to non standard hardware, there is no way microsoft would rewrite vista for power pc.
That too influanced apple.



Also, i am glad you found this amusing.
It' s not every day i get to talk about the complexity of microprocessors to a complete stranger, and i hope you' ve learned something about what i' ve said.
Because you' ve taught me allot about how people think.

uumai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 20:53
Whiteguy, your posts are very interesting - I like to read all this about the processors - Cool stuff.


Nomatter what console this game lands on, it will not look this good, the sega lindbergh hardware is far and away better then any home console this coming generation.


Now I whether or not I believe lindbergh is more or less powerful than next-gen systems is without importance at this point. However I don' t think that either the 360 or the PS3 will struggle with this game - it is not very impressive (as in WOW factor) and the only hinderance to this game looking as good on 360 or PS3 would be down to the developers proficiency with the hardware.
A few years down the line when lindberg is really pushed technically, maybe then if it is more powerful we will see games the consoles can' t do. But at the same time we will see if the statement is genuinely accurate.
NiGHTS into Dreamcast

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:04
Very true, sega has been known to port difficult games to the home console with very little loss.
And i believe it' s very possible to port this game to both consoles, you are also right that this is first generation software for this arcade platform.

We indeed will see how well it works out.

I think it looks pretty good, the models look very good compared to past attempts, and it' s running at dizzying frame rates.

Though, i really wish Mr, suzuki would take the project back and get rid of those stupid flashes of light.
My only complaint i spos.

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:07
I don' t know how you can compare CELL or Xenon (and yes, as far as I' M concerned Xenon has some big advantages over CELL), when everything we know so far is based on THEORETICAL performence.

I dont quite forsee 360 and PS3 having to run Photoshop (a nice benhmark for CPU' s), ...instead i think i can probably only see them running games.

You work on a Navy base?! You' re a salior?! That' s nice. ...It' s not something i ever wanted to do, but nice all the same i' m sure.



You haven' t seen, touched or have the qualifications to make an educated statement regarding CELL and Xenon?! Well i have a shitload of official paperwork on both chips, i have qualifications in IT and Computer Science and i' m in my third year of a games development degree. And y' know what?! I still wouldn' t compare Xenon or CELL to anything else, other than CPU' s in other consoles.

Oh, and for someone who claims to have some technical knowledge, employed by the US Navy even, ...


Where it say' s: RAM: 184 pin DDR SDRAM PC3200(400 MHz) 512 MB × 2(Dual)
Does that mean it comes stock with 1024megs of ram?


...that doesn' t exactly inspire much confidence.

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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:21

And if vista turns out really great, people will want to use it.
And will forsake apple because it sticks to non standard hardware, there is no way microsoft would rewrite vista for power pc.
That too influanced apple.


Actually you can install Windows on every intel based mac - and it' s no longer " hacking" .

The day Vista launches (to keep up with features from Mac OSX Tiger) apple will release Leopard.

Still anyone who needs some apps from PCs can use his windows OS for it.

Windows is always the same - new features ,same problems - nothing has changed since win 95 - the moment they fix one problem 2 more are born.

I don' t understand it anymore - are we comparing IBM to Intel or the old P4 Vs new Cell and " Xenon" ?

Tell me one last thing - are you telling me that P4 3,2 Ghz is faster than Xenons 3 cores (3,2 GHZ each) combined?

You keep telling me how P4 is better than PowerPC and stuff but benchmarking tests show something completely different.

P4 3,0 Ghz has the performance of G5 1,8 - and I know what I' m talking about - I spent a lot of time reading about PowerPC vs Intel.

Intel is a great chipmaker but it' s not like P4 is future proof - every piece of electronics gets dated very fast (especially CPUs).


The reason apple users stay with apple is because they,


1.Look great
2.Have optimised cooling solutions without fan noise.
3.Have beautiful OS which is stable and has no glitches.
4.Everything runs fast year after installation (you windows gets slower with each day)

it' s as simple as " it just works" as opposed to windows where it just doesn' t work like it should no matter how much you try.

Oh and by the way ...I don' t have a MAC - I' m using a Windows based PC and I know how to use it.


And will forsake apple because it sticks to non standard hardware


What do you mean nonstandard? Intel Cpu , Nvidia GPU.

I' ll tell you what' s nonstandard - the moment they managed to boot XP on MacBookPro (intel) they were stunned how much faster everything is comparing to PCs with the same specs.

Architecture is everything.

You may have a lot of knowledge but there were no tests of final Cell CPU yet so you can' t say much about it' s performance.

Add to this that the cells architecture itself is the biggest innovation in CPUs lately and that it can be no direct comparison to older CPUs like P4.

The one thing that everyone knows by know is that it' s a very hard to program CPU (very) - and that could be the reasoning behind refusing to use it for some people like you navy guys or some companies.

I do howerver realise that large part of my arguments on Cells performance is based on some leaked info and official specs - so yeah I could be wrong when it finaly arrives.That doesn' t mean it' s crap cause nave won' t use it though :)


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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:27
New videos of VF5 look gorgeous - some stages so beautiful ...the animation , shadows ,lightining ...sure it can be ported to 360 (and with upgrades) but what hurts the most is the lack of ONLINE - like Y Suzuki said it' s impossible to implement.

And it sux for me cause I have no one to play with (and my girlfirend won' t play with me if I win all the time) :(

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:29
E3 should enlighten us as to which manchine it will be ported to.

I' m not certain SEGA would want to have to directly compete against Tekken 6 (a launch candidate) and therefore may ahve opted to take on DOa4 instead.
< Message edited by Majikdra6on -- 13 Apr 06 13:31:27 >

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:37
Majikdra6on
Your experiance may vary, and that' s all fine and good, but i am telling you in plain english, and in terms you should understand, with your vast reservoir of newly gained hardware knowledge.
You may have very well proven my point about the cell not running photoshop, but on the contrary, it' s sony' s answer to the pentium everything, it was marketed to more then the navy, more then apple.

And my dealing may not have been hands on, but i work for a company that placed it in tests that were more then hands on.

I should try to get my hands on some of these federal results, because more then benchmarks, they also talked alot about the reduculous trials the navy put these things through, things like spraying a running unit with saltwater to watch how it recovers.

Pretty interesting stuff all around.

I am not a sailor, my company is contracted to the navy, but i am not a sailor.
If you stay in school and get a degree in computer science this is one of the many vocations you might want to consider.
Because even though i live very close to both microsoft and nintendo, the jobs are slim because places like digipen are a hot commodity, leaving us college edu-cated professionals looking like we don' t have a clue.

I really hope you aren' t doubting my credentials, i' ve worked quite hard over the last decade, and i hope the posts i' ve written show it.
But even us old dogs might learn a thing or two, so perhaps you should show me the error of my logic. I am open to suggestions.

Yeah, i was sure the lindbergh only came with 512, because there is still little known about how they plan on running that games, if there will be a hard drive to cache, will an OS be used..Lots to learn yet.

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 21:53
Chris Ferro right?!

At 27 you consider yourself and " old dog" ...Really?


You may have very well proven my point about the cell not running photoshop, but on the contrary, it' s sony' s answer to the pentium everything, it was marketed to more then the navy, more then apple.


See, i understand what you' re saying. But it sounds like you presume that the version of CELL to be paced inside of PS3 is exactly the same that they' ll be using in TV' s and such.

The damn thing has been designed to be scalable and the development of the chip has cost in excess of $420 million.

It' s based on POWER4 architecture which as everybody know has an L3 cache and is damn fast.

Not only is it scalable but it has variety of different configurations and it' s optimized for single precision floating point computation.

Now when you look at the high overall floating point performance of Cell it dwarfs the capabilities of the SIMD unit in CPUs like the P4 and the A64. But since it' s geared towards single-precision calculations, then processing double-precision, as used in desktop PC CPU' s it' s performance drops considerably to comparable levels.



If you want to continue this discussion, start a new aptly titled thread. Otherwise lets get back on topic. Threads that go too far off topic usually get locked.
< Message edited by Majikdra6on -- 13 Apr 06 13:57:46 >

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 22:00

Actually you can install Windows on every intel based mac - and it' s no longer " hacking" .

I agree, i think that was apart of apple' s choice to go intel, i think apple is less about what goes on the box, and more about the box.


P4 3,0 Ghz has the performance of G5 1,8 - and I know what I' m talking about - I spent a lot of time reading about PowerPC vs Intel.


this debate has been done before, and both sades have merit, but it' s like the tortuous and the hare, the hare being x86.
While the intel chips are off dealing with rouge lines of code, the power pc is chugging along on a clean path of code.
This is the vicous cycle with x86, and the real reason it' s still popular, because you don' t have to babysit the software you write for it, the hardware does all the work.
Anyway.


What do you mean nonstandard? Intel Cpu , Nvidia GPU.

I' ll tell you what' s nonstandard - the moment they managed to boot XP on MacBookPro (intel) they were stunned how much faster everything is comparing to PCs with the same specs.


I was thinking in the preswitch context, i think i should have made that clear, my bad.


You may have a lot of knowledge but there were no tests of final Cell CPU yet so you can' t say much about it' s performance.


Also very true, what the navy used was a cell with only 4 spe' s on it, but john (the IBM guy) assured us it was as close to what the end result will be as you will find.

And just because the alpha we used was a stinker, doesnt mean after a few revision we might consider it.

All it would take it for the price to be right, and intel to drop the ball.


Add to this that the cells architecture itself is the biggest innovation in CPUs lately and that it can be no direct comparison to older CPUs like P4.


The idea of cell is sound, and i do hope it' s one day realized, but after reading the reports of things being taken out, i started to doubt the cell would be a viable alternative, and after seeing the navy results, it was cemented for me.
Only time will tell i guess.

I think this topic has gotten was too large, and has gotten off track, and that' s pretty much my fault, i made a statement and then tried to back it up with facts and technical reviews, and pretty much i' ve seen people agree and disagree with equal ammounts of validity.

But i' m really hoping my mad skillz will land me a game, c' mon kikizo editors.. I' ve been a good boy, i think.

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 22:03
Let me quote myself.


Otherwise lets get back on topic. Threads that go too far off topic usually get locked.


So, ..Virtua Fighter 5?!
< Message edited by Majikdra6on -- 13 Apr 06 14:03:52 >

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 22:13
Majikdra6on
We are going in circles i think.

Yes it will be a great game indeed.

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 22:22
I' m suprised to see people saying it doesn' t look that nice. Especially when everybody that plays it says DoA4 is gorgeous...

I don' t get it.

I mean, i' d rather play VF than Tekken or Doa any day of the week, on gameplay alone, but VF5 isn' t ugly, it looks great from where i' m sitting.

whiteguysamurai
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 22:29
I think because the game more then likely has a long way to go, or people prefer the art style of some of these other games more.
I think it looks pretty sweet, lots of cool self stencil, instead of those bloby virtex shadows.
The speculars look good too.
A good use of Cg to be sure.
I only wish rendermonkey was as full featured.

]GaNgStA[
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 13, 2006 23:30
I made a VF5 wallpaper some time ago - you can have it guys :)


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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 14, 2006 00:47
I wonder if they' ll ever change to more realistic sound effects in Virtua Fighter. Not that I have anything against the current but it would be fun to see what it would sound like with " next-gen" sound effects.

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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 14, 2006 01:03
The Xbox Live service might actually be able to handle it. Compared to normal PC connections, it runs silky smooth.

I agree that making VF5 exclusive for 360 would be a horrible mistake. Either release it as a Sony exclusive, or make it available for both PS3 and 360. Otherwise it' s not going to sell at all in Japan with their current market penetration.
Back to Adventure!

Nitro
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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 14, 2006 01:13
If SEGA opt for PS3 then they' re forced to go head to head with Tekken 6.

Now i' ll be the first to state that VF is far superior to Namco' s offering, ...but has a Tekken game ever sold badly, anywhere?!

All Tekken games sell well in every territory and if someone were to check the total sales to date, i think you' d probably find that any of the Tekken games on PS2 have sold more than VF4/Evo.

My guess is that Soul Calibur 2' s sales on PS2 are higher than VF4/Evo' s.

Soul Calibur 4 can' t be avoided because Namco has already said it will be multi-platform. But SEGA would have to wait until there was more room on the market for another beat em up because Tekken 6 will probably be a launch title.


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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 14, 2006 07:02
Like you said SoulCalibur is selling very well and is very appealing for most gamers.

Tekken however can' t be considered dangerous to VF.

Both games have very loyal fanbase that would never touch the competition.

And Tekken didn' t hurt VF much on PS2.

I haven' t felt gameplay in Tekken since T3 (even Tekken 5 felt extremely unplayable) and depth alone isn' t enough for me.

SoulCalibur is one of my favourite games , VF and DoA - I enjoy all of them equally - I would have chosen VF above all others if I had some friends to play it with. (shit)
< Message edited by ]Gangsta[ -- 13 Apr 06 23:04:29 >

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RE: Virtua Fighter 5 on 360+arcade? wtf?! - Apr 14, 2006 07:19

The Xbox Live service might actually be able to handle it. Compared to normal PC connections, it runs silky smooth



LIVE servers has a bandwidth limit (i forgot how much).. Ive experience MUCH more lag on live than most PC games.

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