A lot of hardcore gamers seem to be a little lost with the situation at Nintendo, no?

It seems hardcore gamers just can' t get what Nitnendo are playing at. Im hearing people call Nintendo ' out of sight' and have ' lost the plot' .

My Theory.

Not quite, actually Nintendo are soo on the ball and on a totally different level to their competition. While the others fight out for the visuals with same generic gameplay, Nintendo are on the roll of finding the Next level of gameplay. Sure it seems gimmicky at times but its sure starting to come through nicely (See this for an example) The ' Next level' of Control could very well be fully realised in time for Nintendo' s Next console.

By this time, i predict Developers of 360, PS3 games will be bored to death of trying to make the prettiest FPS and actually want to expand the gameplay aswell as visuals and immersion. This is where Wii 2, comes into play. With state-of-the-art horsepower, hardware, software (Online Media ect) AND fully realised Next generation gameplay as standard, Wii 2 will be Irresistible to these developers and Both PS3' s and Xbox 360' s predecessors (unless they blatantly copy, which would be very hard due to patency) will be left in the dark.

My advise to people doubting or Hating on Wii,, Don' t worry about it, just continue to enjoy your GOW' s, GRAW' s ETC (like i am) until you play the Proper Next generation versions on Wii2.

You argue almost as gameplay can' t be innovated without a new controller.
A new controller offers new possibilities but at the same time, the weakness of the Wii hardware limits some possibilities.
Showing the video of Metroid Prime sure sold the Wii to me.
But then what? What' s after Metroid Prime? Lots of ideas with potential, but until those great ideas have become more than just ideas, I will be slightly sceptical about how appealing the Wii really is to hardcore gamers.
Just as people can be bored with generic gameplay, one can be bored with generic control schemes.
The Wii-mote is fresh now, but in the future when all genres have been done with the Wii-mote the gameplay is the only thing that can change, unless they release some further moronic peripherals.
And that' s when the Wii shows its ultimate limits. That' s when every hardcore gamer will start asking themselves, why didn' t they make the Wii more powerful so that it could bring innovative controls AND innovative gameplay?
The Wii-mote itself and Nintendo' s ideas are not bad. They' re great. What' s bothering me and many others is the limitations of the Wii hardware. Powerful hardware effects more than just graphics.

Dozens of Party Games = Innovation = A massive gap in logic.

Dozens of Party Games = Innovation = A massive gap in logic.

Thats ignorance, lack of understanding and not taking into consideration what ' Hardcore' games can benifit from more interatve controls. .And not even watching that Prime Demonstation i linked above for abit of inspiration

ginjirou

I know exactly where your coming from, this is why i say hardcore gamers should leave Wii until Wii2. It' s obvious Wii is just a stepping stone for Nintendo to realise next level game play and as you say its a bumpy ride but i believe things will prevail.

Take The Balance board for example, Right away You have a peripheral that can take Skateboard, Snowbaording games to the next level, never mind the other genres it has the potential to drastically enhance.

When i think of future gaming, i sight virtual reality, being physically more involved with the game, not sitting down with a dual-stick in my hand.

Take The Balance board for example, Right away You have a peripheral that can take Skateboard, Snowbaording games to the next level, never mind the other genres it has the potential to drastically enhance.

It' s a really great idea for a peripheral, but it could' ve been done on a powerful console too. Which is why I' m annoyed with the Wii' s limited hardware. They could' ve done a powerful console too. I' m no graphics whore, I mean I still play my Saturn. But power can never be a bad thing you know
But I' m buying a Wii anyway because, as always:
Nintendo has some games that I must play, regardless of the graphics. I' m just a little sad that we hardcore gamers must give a way a whole generation of Nintendo gaming to the non-gamer community. Nintendo better compensate with some really high quality gaming, but so far.... Metroid Prime is it.
From this day on, I will not call the Wii, Wii anymore.

To me, it' s the Metroid Prime 3 Machine.

Nintendo knows what they' re doing. All these hardcore gamers are whining, " Why isn' t Wii more powerful? Blah blah blah."

Hardcore gamers are going to buy the console as long as they keep releasing Mario, Zelda and Metroid. They' ll bitch and moan, but at the end of the day they' ll do what it takes to play the franchises they love, and Nintendo knows it. They' ve already got you, why focus on selling to the people they' ve already hooked? That' s what they tried to do the last two generations and failed...horribly.

The Wii is gimmicky, yeah. Gimmicks work, that' s why companies use them. The Wii looks fresh and new compared to the PS3 and 360. They other guys are sequels, the Wii is a whole new story.

What hardcore gamers forget is that there' s a whole lot of people out there who don' t play the games you love. A person who wasn' t interested in FPS' s last generation isn' t going to crazy for Killzone2, no matter how pretty it looks. They' ll look at it and say, " oh, it' s one of those shooting games" and pass right on by.

By doing something different, they' re attracting a different (and much larger) audience. It' s actually quite brilliant. They' re not trying to attract Sony and MS customers anymore, they' re creating their own unique userbase.

What hardcore gamers forget is that there' s a whole lot of people out there who don' t play the games you love. A person who wasn' t interested in FPS' s last generation isn' t going to crazy for Killzone2, no matter how pretty it looks. They' ll look at it and say, " oh, it' s one of those shooting games" and pass right on by.

By doing something different, they' re attracting a different (and much larger) audience. It' s actually quite brilliant. They' re not trying to attract Sony and MS customers anymore, they' re creating their own unique userbase.

Nintendo is doing great things for the industry and for videogaming as a media.
But to put things simple, why should I as a consumer care about what other consumers want?

If I like hamburgers and I want a a hamburger at McDonalds thenI better get a freaking BigMac!
It doesn' t matter if the rest of the world wants salads, which seems to be the trend. I still want my damn hamburger!
Sure, they can innovate the hamburger with some new salad and wireless dressing. But they better keep the meat in there!

I WANT MY MEAT!

Take The Balance board for example, Right away You have a peripheral that can take Skateboard, Snowbaording games to the next level, never mind the other genres it has the potential to drastically enhance.

If i wanted to snowboard or skateboard, id get one and go at it, your never going to get anything remotely like the real expirience standing on a board in your living room.

The Wii mote really isnt that great IMO, its all fine and dandy but there are as many games it doesnt work well for.

The rehash of party games upon party games is a valid complaint. I know your a rapid nintendo lover F3, so i understand its all good to you, and that you cant see any faults in what nintendo does, and i wont hold that against you.

Nintendo is doing whats best for profit (if they fully succeed) and thats catering to the people who havent bought a console before, thats a big market, and if you can keep them its great.

But most gamers are feeling abandoned by them, i guess only the die hard nintendo fans are keeping the positive thoughts. Most of nintendo' s new customers doesnt even know about E3.

Ginj, you owe a Saturn?!

How much do you want for it?!

Another Saturn

.

The rehash of party games upon party games is a valid complaint. I know your a rapid nintendo lover F3, so i understand its all good to you, and that you cant see any faults in what nintendo does, and i wont hold that against you.

Why do you have to swoop a conversion into such a low level.

I starting Liking Nintendo when i first brought a DS, before that I was not interested in the company, It' s the new creative Nintendo that got my respect and my tastes are vary more than just ' Hardcore games' .

Nintendo knows what they' re doing. All these hardcore gamers are whining, " Why isn' t Wii more powerful? Blah blah blah."

Hardcore gamers are going to buy the console as long as they keep releasing Mario, Zelda and Metroid. They' ll bitch and moan, but at the end of the day they' ll do what it takes to play the franchises they love, and Nintendo knows it. They' ve already got you, why focus on selling to the people they' ve already hooked? That' s what they tried to do the last two generations and failed...horribly.

The Wii is gimmicky, yeah. Gimmicks work, that' s why companies use them. The Wii looks fresh and new compared to the PS3 and 360. They other guys are sequels, the Wii is a whole new story.

What hardcore gamers forget is that there' s a whole lot of people out there who don' t play the games you love. A person who wasn' t interested in FPS' s last generation isn' t going to crazy for Killzone2, no matter how pretty it looks. They' ll look at it and say, " oh, it' s one of those shooting games" and pass right on by.

By doing something different, they' re attracting a different (and much larger) audience. It' s actually quite brilliant. They' re not trying to attract Sony and MS customers anymore, they' re creating their own unique userbase.

I did not want to touch the casual side of things but yes, Nintendo are doing a great job in this area.

Why do you have to swoop a conversion into such a low level.

I starting Liking Nintendo when i first brought a DS, before that I was not interested in the company, It' s the new creative Nintendo that got my respect as im a braod enough gamer than to just Hardcore games.

Why is it a low level, when its true?

I dont think the Wii is all that, like its been stated it takes more than a new control scheme to make a game great, and some of those things require more processing power.

There is a lot my variety in the games thats been released on the 360 than whats been released on the Wii. And looking a year ahead all i see from the Wii is party games with the exception of a few titles.

There is only so many ways to swing the wii in party games!

My question is, Why should I wait for a " wii 2" when you dont even know if there will be one? Second, How do you know it will have " state-of-the-art horsepower, hardware, software (Online Media ect) AND fully realised Next generation gameplay as standard" instead of doing the same crap they' re doing this gen?

Wii 2 if its called that will probably have HD Graphics comparable to (but not better then) what the other two console manufactures come up with (thats my guess anyway). The Wii is a litmus test, as was the DS. Nintendo having ' lost' two generation in a row had to find some way to differentiate itself from its competitors, and building the most powerful console was not going to be it. Nintendo was trying to find a place for itself in the market, and with the DS and Wii they seem to have found it. Where sony and microsoft had taken the traditional route, Nintendo took a different route to seperate it from the rest - and by all accounts its working.

The reason why the Wii doesn' t have HD graphics currently is threefold
a) it would raise the cost of the console above the price casual gamers will bear
b) HD graphics adds alot to development costs - Wii development can be as low as one third that of its competitor HD consoles. That makes developing for the Wii more attractive proposition, especially considering most developers left Nintendo to develop for ps2, xbox1 in the previous generation.
c) Makes the developers concentrate of perfecting the motion control instead of producing state of the art visuals. In time they should have a better understanding of how to best utilise the Wiimote & motion controls/pointing so when Wii 2 arrives they can turn there attention back to creating state of the art graphics.

As f3hunter said, its a stepping stone. Its obvious not every developers has got it yet. Red Steel looked promising but fell flat, but games like the Godfather show the potential of the control scheme - there is still room for improvement and i have no doubt that over the next few years developers will get the hang of it. It would be ridiculous to assume that Motion Controls will be automatically perfected as soon as it is released. Its something that will take time. The Wii is the platform that will allow the developers the time to do this.

I agree totally with f3hunters statement though. I don' t think the Wii is suitable for most of the hardcore gamers here, but for me i still have high hopes that in time developers can show exactly what the Wii is capable of.

I just dont see Wii controls as superior in anyway, for any games, its still falls short of a keyboard and mouse in regards of precision, and its cumbersome in some games compared to gamepads.

Its not superior, its just different, I imagine that Nintendo will follow suit next time, and release the wiimote as a periphial for the console instead of the primary control scheme!

I want brainwave controls. There' s already technology which you can use to control things with nothing more than your own thoughts. No more buttons at all
I hope Nintendo tries that with MiiTwo (Me too [:' (] )

ORIGINAL: Vx Chemical

I just dont see Wii controls as superior in anyway, for any games, its still falls short of a keyboard and mouse in regards of precision, and its cumbersome in some games compared to gamepads.

That' s why they' re not focusing on the types of games that need a kb/mouse combo or a normal gamepad. You' ve got PC and the other consoles for that.

Its not superior, its just different, I imagine that Nintendo will follow suit next time, and release the wiimote as a periphial for the console instead of the primary control scheme!

I' d take that bet. I' d wager every console next gen will have full motion capabilty built in from day one, and Nintendo will stick to the Wiimote design the way Sony sticks to the dual shock. Why? Because people LIKE it.


You know what' s weird? " Hardcore" gamers are always whining that they want innovation, but everytime something really different shows up they cry and run back to the same stuff they' ve always been playing. To me, it seems " hardcore" gamers really just want sequels with better graphics and a few gimmicky gameplay touches added.

I' m glad Nintendo decided to buck the trend in gaming. Thank god Nintendo had the good sense not to follow suit. If they didn' t, the entire industry would turn into one big online shooter factory. Honestly, how many identical consoles do we need?

Thats ignorance, lack of understanding and not taking into consideration what ' Hardcore' games can benifit from more interatve controls. .And not even watching that Prime Demonstation i linked above for abit of inspiration

I don' t like the word " hardcore" , I' ll be honest. It makes folks that play gears & Call of Duty out to be total planks who don' t know how to have a good time.

Your so-called " hardcore" games could benefit from more interactive controls sure, but I don' t want a hardcore game on the Wii. In fact, I could tolerate a console with the same " age-brackets" the Gamecube & N64 had primarily, I want a good platformer, or an excellent racer, or an on-the-rails shooter that works, or a decent FPS, or a cool puzzle game, or anything but party-games and trash movie-ports.

There' s tons of games that would never have been created unless Nintendo had said there would be motion control. That' s not innovative gameplay. That' s taking new technology, and finding some concept (however terrible) to wrap around it and sell.

Mario Galaxy, that' s innovative. Why? Because it could work just fine with a Gamecube controller, but it works BETTER with a Wiimote. Innovation, taking stock standard material and making it better.

Excite Truck? Yeah, it' s okay, but would it be just as entertaining with a Gamecube controller? Yup.

Super Smash Brothers? We' ve seen the akward control scheme you' re stuck using with the Wiimote. Is it innovative because it' s different? Nope.

Wii DSLite

Nintendo

Playing = Believing


It' s been a while since I wrote that. I have to do it from time to time in order to remember what' s so great about Nintendo.

That makes developing for the Wii more attractive proposition, especially considering most developers left Nintendo to develop for ps2, xbox1 in the previous generation.

Too bad low to nill 3rd Party sells on the console(and past nintendo consoles) drives developers away