If it weren' t for diablo , bioguys would never make baldurs gate.Diablo started it all.

MMmmmm no!

Those games are not at all alike, RPG' s in the style of Baldurs Gate existed long before diablo, there was one which is called Wasteland, which is the predessor of Fallout (which is the true predessor to Baldur' s Gate) So it was Black Isle that started that type of RPG. And Black Isle and Bioware long worked together, Black Isle was incharge of BGII, and they are the guy working at Obsidian now, and some of them was at Troika before it shut down!

and mmorpg arent true rpg' s

Baldurs Gate 1 is their bigest hit to date - the one game that really made difference.I know you think that no game can match KOTOR or Jade

Just saw this (didnt read the more than the first 2 paragraphs last night, i was a bit tired)

I wasnt the biggest fan of Jade Empire, it was a good game in my eyes, nice story and characters, but not the best combat system as i prefer how it works in say Kotor.

But really, Mercenaries werent that good, it was quite boring actually, and i didnt even finish it, because i got bored. Now Full Spectrum Warrior was a good game, and i enjoyed every second of it, but it still had its issues! Like the grenade launcher on the gun being a rocket launcher instead! I think that Bioware' s over the time game ratings, will be slightly higher than Pandemics. But good things have come of their merger, im really looking forward to seeing how combat works in Mass Effect!

Those games are not at all alike

Well the view,interface and most things are alike and look like evolved diablo with focus on the story side of RPG.I think you' re just making bioware bigger then they are :)

MMORPG' s have RPG in their name for a reason.

I' m pretty amazed that they decided to go with action style battle system this time again.It' s nothing bad , it' s just a strange departure from what they' ve always done.

Mercenaries werent that good

First of all I' ve never said it was perfect , but comparing to other games with THAT freedom it was way better.This game was awesome - great gameplay and responsive controls and all those things console gaming gives you.

Like the grenade launcher on the gun being a rocket launcher instead!

When I played it , it was a granade launcher so I don' t know about that :)

" A million lives are at stake here, I' m not gonna let some piss ant bartender
slow me down!"

" You make it seem like I' ve been lying to you commander..."

^^^Love that line^^^

" But you haven' t told me everything...."

The dialogue.. is amazing.. " Piss ant bartender" ...

J Allard:

" A million lives are at stake here, I' m not gonna let some piss ant bartender
slow me down!"

At an xbox360 conference, in response to winning over people for the x-box.

Sony being the piss-ant bartender....

You obviously dont know what your talking about! You cant compare Diablo and Baldurs Gate anymore than you can compare Zelda and Baldurs Gate, Zelda at an over the top view before Diablo had it?

They arent a like at all, Diablo isnt a real RPG, people seem to think that the only thing that makes an RPG is leveling up, but its not! Its about interaction, affecting the enviroment you play it, advancing story through dialog! And Diablo only had the stats and level ups!

Baldurs Gate was in production before Diablo was announced.

And if you compare MMORPG with standard CRPG' s, someone should really screw your head on right!

Relax Vx you' re taking it to seriously now...

Zelda at an over the top view before Diablo had it?

isometric pseudo-3d view of diablo was copied by every PC RPG after it, same with interface.That' s what I meant.Diablo is a so called Action RPG and I know it' s not like BG.

Baldurs Gate was in production before Diablo was announced.

- it has been influenced during it' s production then.

And if you compare MMORPG with standard CRPG' s, someone should really screw your head on right!

I don' t remember comparing them - I remember however, saying that Blizzard makes great RPGs and WoW is one of them wether you like it or not, it is an RPG game even if it has MMO before RPG part.

My dislike for BioWare comes from KOTOR and Jade Empire alone (I' ve tried Baldurs Gate after we talked so much about PC RPGs before and it seemed very good so I' m not saying anything about this one) - and not because these games were crap , but becasue they were limited by stupid things.

I enjoyed KOTOR a lot, but it was annoying very often (especially when you played as a female jedi and everyone kept talking about raven as if he was a man - that plot twist turned out pretty silly for me).

They definitely have the potential to create something totally extraordinary but didn' t (eith games I played) and that' s why I think Pandemic will help to solve silly issues to help their games become " complete" .

I cant see how you can compare the way its designed not at all! Baldurs gate offers a completely different style of graphics. It' s plain silly to say its influenced by it, when its a game that shows things from a top perspective.

If you want to compare things that way, nothing is original except Pong.

Okay you didnt like Kotor, but 90% of the rpg playing world did, get the picture?

Vx your anger blinds you and you sound retarded:

Okay you didnt like Kotor, but 90% of the rpg playing world did, get the picture?

As far as I can tell I said I liked it a lot so I don' t know what' s wrong with you.

I cant see how you can compare the way its designed not at all! Baldurs gate offers a completely different style of graphics.

Diablo started entire era of similiar looking RPG' s with isometric view and special potions interface and so on.If you don' t get it - don' t fight it.

Im not angry, im annoyed.

Okay i missread yoúr Kotor statement.

You have these silly notions a lot, and you cant be nudged even in the slighest direction! Im telling you, Baldur' s Gate is nothing like diablo. And it didnt influence it! Just because the GUI is at the bottom of the screen in both games, it doesnt mean that the other is a copy!

See this is the forerunner for BG and Diablo, i mentioned it before Wasteland



Just because it isnt isometric of Psyedo 3d, doesnt mean it wasnt the first. If you dispute that, you will be saying that Bethesda is the father of all 3d First Person shooters with their release of SkyNet.

Ahh well. Neither are japaneese console games, so why do i bother

I know what you' re saying , but the thing is, Diablo started something - after this game there were so many games with precisely that view nad interface that it seems like either it influenced them or brought back what wasteland started.

I remember cause I played Diablo a lot and then there suddenly appeared so many games looking like it.

I' m not going to pretend to know PC RPG history - what I' m saying is what I saw at that time when I was playing games on PC as much as on consoles.

And you keep saying stuff about me and Japanese games while you yourself haven' t really played them - I' ve tried your PC RPGs from the past to know what you' re talking about and I agreed that Baldurs gate seems very cool even today.
MAybe we' re not that different, maybe you simply haven' t played all those great titles that I have and maybe you' ll like those japanese games too.

And you keep saying stuff about me and Japanese games while you yourself haven' t really played them - I' ve tried your PC RPGs from the past to know what you' re talking about and I agreed that Baldurs gate seems very cool even today.
MAybe we' re not that different, maybe you simply haven' t played all those great titles that I have and maybe you' ll like those japanese games too.

Well i have said that i was going to give Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon a chance. Iv always prefered western RPG' s because most of them allows you to create your own character making it seem more like your making your own story! Im not sure which Jap games does that for you!

That' s funny cause you experience a linear story with your character - that' s the only difference, the character.So at you' re right actually - it only seems like you' re making your own story if you really want to believe this :)

The biggest difference between western and Japanese RPGs (And I was talking about great J games in overall) is that western ones focus on developing your character while japanese focus on the story and interactions between your team members much more.

I honestly don' t care about making my own character - I like however, when all my equipment is visible on my 3D model - that' s nice.

When I play games like RE,Shenmue or any other I don' t mind seeing some character that I didn' t make.I think that the more story based game the better to have your character with personality - and games that let you make your character, make him/her shallow and silent with no life in him/her.

Mass Effect seems to be going that road with a new and uncustomisable character - and it will be good for the story.I' ve already noticed that this guy has some personality in him.

Iv always prefered western RPG' s because most of them allows you to create your own character making it seem more like your making your own story!

And you' ve played what? Final Fantasy? It' s obvious you prefer something you' ve tried over something you have no idea about.And FF is just a one loud title - I bet there is at least one Western RPG you don' t like right?

I have tried numerous other titles than FF, though all of them were on the PC, and i dont recall their names (a friend of mine is a big fan of that type of games)

I do think that Western RPG' s develop great story lines as well, and character interaction is at a maximum, i mean does FF give you the same amount of choices in dialogs as for say BG II or Torment?

FF is the only known to me jRPG available for PC - everything else you' ve tried , wasn' t even near those games I' m talking about.

mean does FF give you the same amount of choices in dialogs as for say BG II or Torment?

Thank god id doesn' t - I' d rather have a cool story unfold before my eyes in amazing CG footage than click,clik,clik dialog with some npc

KOTOR changed that - dialogs were pretty interesting, but in Jade Empire dialogs were simply boring and I couldn' t stand all that crap.

Mass effect is donig a great thing with dialogs as faras I can tell , but old RPG' s were worse than cool CG for story

I don' t have any problem with you prefering PO RPG , but I can' t stand you talking like jRPGs aren' t even worth comparing to western ones.

Both can be great if done right - western RPGs may be different but aren' t better or even much better - only different and suffer from strange bugs (it' s a common thing in RPG won' t you agree? BG had it' s share of this problem as far as I remember)

Thank god id doesn' t - I' d rather have a cool story unfold before my eyes in amazing CG footage than click,clik,clik dialog with some npc

Id rather affect the story than just watch it! Or else id go to the Cinema!

Id rather affect the story than just watch it! Or else id go to the Cinema!

So you really believe that you are affecting the story? Good for you - I' m not naive enough to enjoy it, I guess.I' d rather have cinematic experience in my games , but that' s just me :)

I' m not naive enough to enjoy it, I guess

It' s got nothing to do with being naive, its got something to do with enjoying RPG' s, which is why japeenese RPG, will always be pawned by western RPG' s since they actually try to stay true to the name!

I guess having played loads of pen and paper RPG' s makes me want something a kin to that!

It' s got nothing to do with being naive, its got something to do with enjoying RPG' s

Not really - It' s not hard to notice that you have one story no matter what you' ll do - I don' t mind that , but if you' re telling me you live your own story in western RPG' s - that is naive.

I guess having played loads of pen and paper RPG' s makes me want something a kin to that!

Definitely - that' s what Western RPG' s build upon.I' ve always wanted to try pen and paper RPGs but never had the chance :(

Its also about selecting how much you want to know about the world you are exploring and how much you want to know about the different personas, either your followers or the NPC that populate the world!

Though some games, you do affect the story and how you expirience the game through dialog, Planescape Torment, was the first to really do that!

On PC ...maybe - on SNES Chrono Trigger was like that and I' m pretty sure it wasn' t the first game of that nature.