The difference is in the Hz Gangsta, 50 for PAL and 60 for NTSC. The resresh rate (measured in Hz is not the framerate).

yeah but it translates to 50 FPS for PAL and 25 FPS as standards - you shoul know that - Sega was the first to include optional 60Hz in PAL games.

Anygame you play today (VF4 , SC3) asks you if you want to play 60Hz - it means 10 more frames.It' s in Xbox menu.

Yes they' re displayed at 24 fps, but that wasn' t my point. I wasn' t saying that it' s actuallt 18, i was saying that the human eye percieves the image to be fliud motion when the frame count hits about 18.

Still wrong :)
Movies have a sort of blurring effect that fools your eyes - those frames may not be perfect in number but the trick is they seem fluid.That blur technique makes a special transition-frame between frames.

As for PAL and NTSC, ...while NTSC may run at 30 fps and a frequency of 60Hz, it only has 525 scanlines, whereas PAL runs at 25 fps and 50Hz but has 625 scanlines which results in a better picture quality.

in reality NTSC games look as shrp and colorful as PAL games , but have more FPS - 30 and 60 respectively.

Most PAL TV' s nowadays support NTSC playback.
Metroid Prime Echoes for instance runs only in PAL 60 Hz mode.

Anygame you play today (VF4 , SC3) asks you if you want to play 60Hz - it means 10 more frames.It' s in Xbox menu.

No it doesn' t. It means the image is refreshed 10 more times. It doesn' t up the framerate.

Still wrong :)
Movies have a sort of blurring effect that fools your eyes - those frames may not be perfect in number but the trick is they seem fluid.That blur technique makes a special transition-frame between frames.

And NO, it' s not fucking wrong, ...oh look i mentioned blur...

The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.

in reality NTSC games look as shrp and colorful as PAL games , but have more FPS - 30 and 60 respectively.

WTF do you mean NTSC games look as shard and colorful as PAL?! Were not talking about games here, PAL and NTSC are TV standards not game standards. PAL has an extra 100 scanlines, that' s how it works and that nakes a PAL image clearer/cleaner/sharper, ...whatever you want to call it. No it isn' t more fluid because NTSC refreshes and extra 10 times resulting in a more fluid picture.

No it doesn' t. It means the image is refreshed 10 more times. It doesn' t up the framerate.

man oh man - you really don' t get it.

your TV can display as many frames per second ,as many times it can refresh per second.I' m tired of educating you man - especially after that POWER PC thing

PAL and NTSC are TV standards? - did you know that every single game you have has a code PAL or NTSC?

Japanese games - NTSC
American Games - NTSC
European Games - PAL
Australian Games - PAL

in order to play a (NTSC) game on your PAL TV that doesn' t support NTSC (60HZ) - you need to buy a converter or RGB cable.
But most TV' s support both formats.

TV has nothing to do with that - its your console , DVD player or whatever that forces PAL or NTSC to be displayed.

Even more - DVD movies are also PAL or NTSC

I' m tired of this - you dissapoint me man :)

You really don' t know shit about so many things

100 scanlines? and you' re telling me you can see the difference?

I know I can' t - maybe with FF7 for PSX , where we had half of the screen filled with actual game thanks to poor conversion.

Why do you think US games are so quick to release after japan and Europe takes forever?
Game has to be changed from NTSC to PAL.

Did you know that Ridge racer type 4 had to be changed in order to be as fast in 50 fps (pal) as it was in 60 (NTSC)?

Same thing with Gran Turismo - they had to change dynamics a bit.

Thankfully it' s not a problem these days (we have PAL 60HZ)

I can' t believe your studies have anything to do with gaming sometimes

I' m tired of educating you man - especially after that POWER PC thing

You said...

You could be right when you say games for PS3 won' t be looking as good as those for 360 at the begining , but you could be wrong since RSX is based on a well known architecture (and PS2 had it all terribly hard and " original" ) of GeForce cards and CPU has one core exactly the same as the 3 cores of 360 (which is a power PC G4 based CPU).

I said...

You talk about 360' s CPU being power PC based, ...well..bloody CELL is power PC based!!!

Then you said...

It' s more Power PC based than Cell actually (since it has 3 POWER PC G4 based cores and cell has one) Even more - The one General Purpouse Core of Cell is almost the same as those 3 cores of 360' s CPU.

Why do you think they previewed games on PowerMacs at the begining?

Well numbnuts, the 3.2 GHz Cell processor has 8 Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs), and an SPE is a RISC processor with 128-bit SIMD organization. Each of the SPEs will have a fully featured VMX vector unit. Only 7, however, are active. The 8th SPE is there for redundancy: if one of the other 7 are defective the 8th SPE will activate and stand in for the defective part.

Cell will have one POWER processing element (PPE) on the core, with seven SPEs and one SPE reserved for redundancy (to help increase manufacturing yield). All of these are clocked at 3.2 GHz. The chips will be fabricated using a 90 nanometre SOI process, at IBM' s facility in East Fishkill, New York.

So NO, PS3 DOESN' T have a single 3.2 GHz processor that outperforms 360, it has 8 and they all are closked at 3.2GHz. Hence why CELL is so powerful and Sony didn' t think thy' d need a GPU!!!

Look you numb fuck, you are STUPID and plain WRONG!

Read this to EDUCATE YOURSELF about TV formats...

http://www.atariage.com/common/video_key.aspx

A quick exerpt would be... " The PAL standard utilizes a wider channel bandwidth than NTSC which allows for better picture quality."

PAL

Scanlines: 625
Frame Rate: 25 FPS
Frequency: 50 Hz

NTSC

Scanlines: 525
Frame Rate: 30 FPS
Frequency: 60 Hz

And Poland, where YOU live uses PAL D/K

100 scanlines? and you' re telling me you can see the difference?

Yeah, can' t you?!

Thankfully it' s not a problem these days (we have PAL 60HZ)

Actually, modern PAL TV sets use 100 Hz refresh rate to eliminate flicker, effectively displaying one frame twice.

Video professionals and television engineers do not hold NTSC video in high regard, joking that the abbreviation stands for " Never The Same Color," " Never Twice the Same Color," or " Never Tested Since Christ." Cabling problems tend to degrade an NTSC picture (by changing the phase of the color signal), so the picture often loses its color balance by the time the viewer receives it.

Some complain that the 525 line resolution of NTSC results in a lower quality image than the hardware is capable of. Additionally, the large mismatch between NTSC' s 30 frames per second and cinema' s 24 frames per second cannot be overcome by a simple small speedup during telecine of cinematic movies for display on NTSC equipment; unlike PAL a more complex process called " 3:2 pulldown" is needed, which duplicates parts of frames. This induces noticeable judder during slow pans of the camera

See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC ...for more details. I guess you still think i' m wrong mr almighty?!

The difference between us Gangsta is i know this shit and you either look it up on the internet or repeat shit you overheard somewhere.

You have displayed on numerous occasions a lack of technical knowledge, and just won' t admit when you' re wrong.

You' re a doctor aren' t you?! Well, lets just say that i wouldn' t question YOU about medical shit because i don' t pretend to know about that. What i DO know is games and games technology.

Well look back at Fighting Vipers 2 on Dreamcast, that had 60fps, as did Daytona USA 2001. Would you know the difference between that and PGR3?! Unlikely.

I can easily notice it, a huge difference for me, PGR looks jerky compared to arcade Daytona USA (1994) and every racing game i' ve played that' s 60fps.

Not everyone is too bothered by framerates but I can notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps as clear as day.

25fps is also noticeable compared to 30fps, same for 50 and 60.

Ultimately you can easily notice how much smoother 60fps is even if it' s just plain textured polygons with no additional effects. The standard should be 60fps, we shouldn' t really be excepting anything less. Certainly not with todays powerful hardware.

Not a big fan of PAL either, even more now that the UK HD standard is going to be 50hz (though HD Ready branded TV' s have to support both). I can only hope Sony' s PS3 has a 60hz 720p HD option, otherwise it' s the expensive import route.

100 scanlines? and you' re telling me you can see the difference

I do, the image is slightly crisper (high res) though due to the lower refresh rate looks noticeably more flickery.

Reading specs now won' t erase your previous posts but better be late than sorry I guess

I never said that Cells one core is better than 360 CPU - you misinterpreted it - so chill out with those names cause I can call you like that myself - no problem only why would I want to do that?

check this out:

quote:

You talk about 360' s CPU being power PC based, ...well dumbass, bloody CELL is power PC based!!!

Majik- now you' ve made a complete fool of yourself my friend :)

you should know that Xbox Cpu is totally Power PC based

It' s more Power PC based than Cell actually (since it has 3 POWER PC G4 based cores and cell has one) Even more - The one General Purpouse Core of Cell is almost the same as those 3 cores of 360' s CPU.

Meaning that it' s like any of those 3 cores not all of them combined.

Another thing you should know is that you' re not smart enough to talk to anyone like that
especially when you humiliate yourself with sayin shit like -360s CPU isn' t powerpc based.

The one General purpose core (as I call it) of Cell (not those synergistic units) is almost the same as one of 360 cores.

Both are POWER PC based (from G4 familiy) and denying that makes you the fool of the week.

(Especially since you don' t have to be a genius to realize that any CPU IBM does is mostly POWER PC BASED)

SDTV 480i60 (NTSC), 480p30, 576i50 (PAL, SÉCAM), 576p25

That' s from your article - do you see 25 and 50 next to PAL ?
And yeah we' re talking about frames which are limited by refresh rate only and how can you not now that?

60-50 = 10
30-25 = 5
Now you know how many frames you' ve been missing in PAL 50Hz

Additionally, the large mismatch between NTSC' s 30 frames per second and cinema' s 24 frames per second cannot be overcome by a simple small speedup during telecine of cinematic movies for display on NTSC equipment; unlike PAL a more complex process called " 3:2 pulldown" is needed, which duplicates parts of frames. This induces noticeable judder during slow pans of the camera. See telecine for more details.

Sure - the only problem is - we never discussed movies.

I play both NTSC and PAL games - and when I have the chance I get the NTSC version (US mostly) since it' s faster and smoother- unless ofcourse we' re talking about games that support PAL 60Hz.The only good thing about 50Hz is that framerate drops are not that hard (shenmue for instance) - since games run at lower framerate originally - and 60hz versions can drop 5 - 10 frames to reach PAL level.

I wonder in which game did you see the lack of 100 scanlines the most HAHAHAHAHHAHA oh I' m sorry hahah

Actually, modern PAL TV sets use 100 Hz refresh rate to eliminate flicker, effectively displaying one frame twice.

Wow that' s so smart - it would' ve been even more smart if it weren' t a direct quote from that article made to sound like your opinion - sounds wise man - good work , and all it took was to place " actually" before it :)

One day you' ll realise just how to act on forums

Untill that day just shut your mouth and read FACTS before you scream like a 5 year old retard callin everyone names.
It' s good to check some stuff after some foolish statements but it' s so much better to check them before.

And don' t continue that crappy discussion about NTSC and PAL - since we' re talking about difference in games not EVERYTHING THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH NTSC AND PAL SINCE FUCKIN JESUS

I can easily notice it, a huge difference for me, PGR looks jerky compared to arcade Daytona USA (1994) and every racing game i' ve played that' s 60fps.

Not everyone is too bothered by framerates but I can notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps as clear as day.

25fps is also noticeable compared to 30fps, same for 50 and 60.

Ultimately you can easily notice how much smoother 60fps is even if it' s just plain textured polygons with no additional effects. The standard should be 60fps, we shouldn' t really be excepting anything less. Certainly not with todays powerful hardware.

Not a big fan of PAL either, even more now that the UK HD standard is going to be 50hz (though HD Ready branded TV' s have to support both). I can only hope Sony' s PS3 has a 60hz 720p HD option, otherwise it' s the expensive import route.

See majik? Some people play games and notice

Hey about HD 60Hz - it' s up to developers I think , but I' m not sure

I do, the image is slightly crisper (high res) though due to the lower refresh rate looks noticeably more flickery.

Well I guess I' m the only one who' s blind here - some TV' s however soften NTSC image a lot - this could be the case with yours.

I have no difference playing the same title in PAL 60 Hz or NTSC

Are you just dense?

360' s GPU is one unit, it' s just made up of 3 cores. It' s a single chip like CELL!!!

You' re just doing the same stupid shit you were when you were telling Terry and myself that PSP can' t possibly output what PS2 can!

Both are POWER PC based (from G4 familiy) and denying that makes you the fool of the week.

I know, that' s what i said.

Perhaps your English slips sometimes, perhaps you can' t read too good, who knows?! What i do know is that you talk a lot of shit!

100 scanlines? and you' re telling me you can see the difference

I do, the image is slightly crisper (high res) though due to the lower refresh rate looks noticeably more flickery.

Y' huh! Me too..

Why does every thread seem to end up this way?

(gets ready to be flamed and shunned to hell and back and again)

There is a difference between 50, 60, 25, 30, PAL, NTSC etc, some people notice it more than others.

PAL 60 Hz or NTSC

The resolution is the same so PAL 60 is no sharper than NTSC 60, it' s just the colour system that' s different (noticeable in RGB mode too). I was saying that PAL 50 is sharper than NTSC 60.

Sucks i know.

Well that' s it for now.

I' ll be back after diner or something.

360' s GPU is one unit, it' s just made up of 3 cores. It' s a single chip like CELL!!!

quote:

Both are POWER PC based (from G4 familiy) and denying that makes you the fool of the week.

I know, that' s what i said.

WTF is this?

I' m telling you that Cells " Main core" is like one of those 3 cores 360 has and you' re telling me that 360 has 3 cores on one chip?


I think it' s your english that is the problem - and I know you meant CPU not GPU - I have no reason to bark at you for every stupid mistake in your post.

I know, that' s what i said.

I wonder when was that cause you sure as hell didn' t and you called me a dumbass for stating that.

Sucks i know.

No comment

I' m telling you that Cells " Main core" is like one of those 3 cores 360 has and you' re telling me that 360 has 3 cores on one chip?

No, what you said was...

The one General Purpouse Core of Cell is almost the same as those 3 cores of 360' s CPU.

And you said it here... https://forum.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=40472&p=1&mpage=6&tmode=1&smode=1&key=&language=

They' re both single chips, what' s so hard to understand?!

CELL = A central processor that clocks at 3.2GHz, that has 8 Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs), each clocking 3.2GHz and each with their own VMX vestor unit.

CELLs' " general purpose core" as you like to put it, does NOT match 360s' CPU all by itself. That isn' t how it works.

No comment

Probably for the best.

didn' t you read this?

I never said that Cells one core is better than 360 CPU - you misinterpreted it

- so chill out with those names cause I can call you like that myself - no problem only why would I want to do that?

check this out:

You talk about 360' s CPU being power PC based, ...well dumbass, bloody CELL is power PC based!!!

Majik- now you' ve made a complete fool of yourself my friend :)

you should know that Xbox Cpu is totally Power PC based

It' s more Power PC based than Cell actually (since it has 3 POWER PC G4 based cores and cell has one) Even more - The one General Purpouse Core of Cell is almost the same as those 3 cores of 360' s CPU.

Meaning that it' s like any of those 3 cores not all of them combined.

They' re both single chips, what' s so hard to understand?!

nothing so why do you explain shit like that - everyone knows that.
I don' y know maybe you feel smart when you say obvious thing like that.

Just so you could find it :

you say :

CELLs' " general purpose core" as you like to put it, does NOT match 360s' CPU all by itself. That isn' t how it works.

I say :

I never said that Cells one core is better than 360 CPU - you misinterpreted it

and

Meaning that it' s like any of those 3 cores not all of them combined.

do you see it now??

What? None of that makes sense dude...

Yes, you were comparing CELLs main core to all 3 cores in 360. Anyone can go see for themselves, it' s in English.

Yes they' re Power PC based, but YOU brought that up, not me. You weren' t talking about CELL either, you were referring to 360 and insinuating that CELL was not infact Power PC based.

Either that, or you didn' t explain thoroughly.

So, anyway, are you a Doctor, or a Nurse?

Yeah I wasn' t clear enough the first time so I explained:

Meaning that it' s like any of those 3 cores not all of them combined.

And I' m not comparing - those are almost identical (it' s like putting one of 360' s cores on a cell chip next to synergistic units)

I guess its still to hard for you to understand - I see you like wearing sunglasses at home - maybe it' s hard for you to read in them.

You weren' t talking about CELL either, you were referring to 360 and insinuating that CELL was not infact Power PC based.

Tell me where was I insinuating that ? Last time I checked you were shocked to hear that Xbox' s CPU is Power PC.

I' m not a doctor yet - but you should look for one

Still when you kepp bubblin about how good your english is it makes me wonder how many other languages do you speak - but when I think about it - it' s useless since you' d say at least 3 just to sound smart.

Whatever G, this is stupid.

Yeah maybe it is - but I keep hearing stuff from you that I didn' t say and that you cannot prove I Insinuated (Cell not being POWER PC).

And I don' t get it why would you post things like that for no reason.

Seriously.

Thirst you say some shit to me then you' re trying to make me look like a fool and now you want to be the one to " Stop this nonsense"

I really wanted to know what' s your motive here and that' s the only reason why I keep replying.

I guess that' s enough of forum flooding wars for the day.

So it' s safe to lift the cardboard box from over my head?

:)

(it' s not actually - I placed some mines in my previous post so watch out)

dragon won' t admit more fps is better because he has grandpa eyes and can' t tell the difference.