I am glad to hear about the revised camera. that' s definately a good thing.

Now to pick you entire post apart.

" MGS is realisitc, people did have to use camo and face paint, you cannot run around like medal of honor and suspect to get to the end of the level, for you being a fan of spliter cell, i' d say you should respect that, and thats why the cure system is in there, it also adds to the realism. "

Yes, they did wear camo and face paint, but they didn' t change their clothes every two seconds in order to hide from enemies. They had their standard issue clothes and their regular face paint. It' s not something they could change at a moments notice. Also, it' s not possible to carry around an entire wardrobe of that size. I won' t nag at it too much though simply because it is a game and it adds depth. I still didn' t like it though.

Then with the cure feature, it just got repetative and annoying as hell. There was far too much to do in it and took too much away from the rest of the game. I could have actually been playing the game, or even better- watching the brilliant cinematics.

OK rampage, explain this, how on earth are those guards stupid enough not to see three bright green lights?

Because Sam is elite. If you' re gonna complain about that, talk to me about the crocodile head in MGS3. I won' t even go there. Mainly though those lights are the signature that makes Sam... well Sam! Night vision does give off a little green light, they just kinda over do it in the game simply because it looks cool.

how can they know excatly where i am when an alarm, goes of [even if i am hideing]

Maybe because someone radios where the alarm went off, or they have some type of system where hey can check a palm piolet device like Sam has. Then again, if you think about it, it' s only people in the close area near you that actually come to attack you... not a never ending hoard of soldiers that base their tactics on a count down timer and completely give up looking for you even after numerous guys have died. At least in SC3 the guards are still spooked and continue to stay in a somewhat hieghtened alert.

And when you are hiding in the shadows and they still find you, that' s common snse. They are paying more attentiun to their surroundings and will pay closer attention to detail. You can see stuff in shadows if you really try and let your eyes adjust.

how can they not know a room is filled with gas?.

I have no idea what you mean by that...

Also the story, ah, another tom cancly terriost plot, oh wait! it involves the cheinesse this time, what a twist. Another thing that bugs me about it is that [which i am sure i metioned before] is the same game year after year, with some added features.

Hahahahaha. You are calling the game a rehash when comparing it to the MGS series? That' s basically what happens in MGS, " let' s do the same thing again with new cinematics" . Oh, and it' s still a story about the Metal Gear. Every game has ahd something to do with Metal Gear, Big Boss, Snake, Revolver... and on and on and on.

At least the SC franchise is getting better with every reiteration. the first one was revolutionary with it' s incredible graphics, hardcore stealth, and crazy lighting system. SC:PT was a step up with the new outdoor enviroments, better graphics again, and the revolutionary Merc vs. Spies multiplayer. It' s ingle player wasn' t too advanced, but it was still great. SC:CT... well, it' s simply the best game ever. End of story. Best graphics on any system or PC, the integration of sound bar for stealth, tons of new moves, an even better story than the first two, co-op, the ability to choose your equipment before going on to your mission, and I could go on and on and on... It' s the best game ever.

MGS is a rehash that seems to be a little less than the the original every time a new one comes out. MGS is still the best in the series. To be honest, I hope the next " game" is just a full all out cinematic like FFVII: Advent Children. The gameplay is just getting tiresome and repetative. It hasn' t gone through any major overhaul since MGS and the formula seems to be getting worse instead of better. Like I said early the game' s cinematics are the only things that interest me anymore.

MGS is still a great series, it just got its ass pwned by Sam with a quick snap of the neck. You can go and point your gun at some soldiers balls to make them dance all you want, but I' d much rather be causing some serious death from above when hanging from a pipe.

Now that school is out kids you should all go home and play some SC3 to know what games should be like.

Ugh...<sigh>

Yo, what did I say at the beginning? You really can' t compare these games in terms of stealth or gameplay. They' re nothing alike.

The only parts that I have to argue about is the game mechanics of MGS3. I did like the fact that you had to heal parts of your body by survival methods used by the army. To me that was realistic. I do go for the realistic parts or features in games. BUT that' s me. I enjoy realism especially in a shooter up action type game. As for MGS following or copying SC? No, if that was true. They would have redesigned the full engine and gameplay to match SC' s totally f*cking kick MGS ass over and over again. Can we say, Konami got owned by Ubisoft in appearance and game design? I believe that MGS was lacking in several areas since the first game. The new mechanics is what really gave MGS a new feeling or serious update that it really deserved.
***SPOILER***Plus, this game wasn' t about the Snake. I' m glad that Hideo finally decided to tell the tale about how and why the father became Big Boss. I' m glad that I' m out of seeing f*cking boxy shaped objects in every damn room that I enter. I got tired of having to hide behind the same object shaped shit every place I went. Yes, the camera was a curse at times but, I still beat the game with no problem. As for changing my camo instantly? Who wants to see a grown man take 3-5 mins to change his outfit on the tv screen? Unless you' re gay. Please by all means, go ahead and wish for it. I' m sure some game designer would love to make a patch like that. BUT I will agree that they did go over the top on the different and many cameoflages throughout the game.

In terms of SC, if you get shot by someone that' s standing no more than 20 feet away from you. I guarantee that shit is gonna hurt and some place on your body is going to be bleeding. Instead of Sam just saying ouch or making a hurt noise, there will be blood dripping onto the floor . As far as the guards knowing exactly where you are and know where to point thier guns or walk in your direction while you' re moving very slowly. BS. These guys were freaking henchmans who just got thier damn hands on your so called special gun that you adore and love named the XM29 OICW. Another issue with the gun, where the hell is my damn camera lean option?!? WTF!!! Ghost Recon 2 had the capabilities of using the camera. So why in god' s name can' t I use the camera to peak around the corner and shoot the gun with? WITHOUT exposing any of my body parts except my hands to avoid being dumped on. That' s stealth and technology at it' s full capabilities. I believe many SC players and fans have greatly overlooked that fact. That' s what that damn camera was made for on that gun. If you want to get technical about it. Yes, the night vision googles do not work that well in the dark. They are shitty as hell and yes, when you use them. Enemies can see those nice green lights.

In conclusion of comparision. SC has and will always overrate MGS in game design and appearance. MGS will always overrate SC in story and maybe a punch in mechanics.

What makes SC?
Shoot lights out
Cause distractions with everyday electronic devices or mainly lights
Hide in the dark
Silence throughout the game
Sound truly matters
Never the same scenery over and over again
The newest in high tech electronics and equipment

What makes MGS?
Spectacular story lines
A mix of army training and stealth
Variety of weapons to choose from
Quirks or easter eggs throughout the game
Different bosses with unique skills
Characters with feelings and not just there

So which game would you enjoy? Ask and answer yourself with this. Splinter Cell truly does define the word stealth. Not to be seen or interact with ppl. You have the full option to be a real badass by just slipping past your enemies and they would never know that you were there. Metal Gear Solid is a mix of fighting and stealthy tactics for certain times. You have the option to gun ppl down and not worry about anything cause there' s plenty enough ammo to go around or just simply take down a person silently and quickly so that no one notices. Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid can not be compared, they are 2 different aspects of gameplay. In the end, MGS was never really fully designed to be stealthy. That' s why I prefer it at times over than SC. The ability to use different weapons to kill someone and not have to worry about botching up the mission. MGS demands players to make a decision. Try to do it with some stealth or go gun ho! MGS offers variety while SC offers a single focus on the terms stealth. Where you don' t have a decision. It' s stealth or be screwed over instantly. But if you want to feel like you' re a real badass by following someone close behind them and not even taking them out. Then that' s what makes the player feel like they really are something instead of resorting to just killing someone. Anyone can pick up a gun and shoot someone. But it takes a lot to just sneak past someone and knowing that you could have killed them just a second ago.

Boy oh boy... lokks like I' m gonna have to disect another entire post... I' ll do it later because I' m really tired right now since it' s 5:00am and I' m still working on my that' s due... well today.

I will just start with this though-

MGS offers variety while SC offers a single focus on the terms stealth. Where you don' t have a decision. It' s stealth or be screwed over instantly.

Already went over that. SC3 gives you the option to pretty much kill anyone and everyone. Nobody seems to want to believe it though.

I can' t get into this right now. I have to finish my final.

you seemed to miss my point about the airwaves, eh rampage?

You said that the series needs a good shake up, and not the same gameplay from mgs1? well i think ditching the raydar was a very bold move, and it worked, just the camera cause some issues. Place snake in the Jungle was a great breath of life into the series, I dont see Sam fisher going on location much, another warehouse/facilty? [sigh...]. What i meant by the guards are all knowing is that, i fired a shot to distract the gaurds, his behind a box [i had plenty of time to do so] when the guards came in, i was well hidden and yet they still knew where to shoot. In mgs they do have an aleted phaze after an attack, the ai is good, they call for backup, they can hear your foorsteps, acctully the ai is quite on par with that of sc.

Also you didnt get very far in the game, if you think its all about metal gear again, metal gear only plays a part in it, Yes it is based around metal gear but that soon disapears once you get futher in the game, other people become your target and the focus of attention.

kombatfighter covered alot of the points i was going to say, i know there is no converting you the mgs way. But people dont be so narrow minded about it.

I still haven' t slept so I' ll have to ompletely reply to these claims later. I would like to laugh at your last comment though, Silent. Muahahahahahahaha. " Don' t be so narrow minded..." ? Your doing the same thing.

You fell asleep during the intro too, I thought I was the only one. I was pressing R1 while I was falling and then all of a sudden I woke up in the forest. I missed the whole damn beginning. But, I loved the rest of the game and hopefully if 360 can play Xbox games I can play Splinter Cell 3. But, why don' t people talk about the greatness that was Syphon Filter the second best playstation game in history.

because nobody likes Syphon Filter anymore.

Hey, rampage i often said that Splinter cell is a good game, thats not being narrow minded, but to the people who say that they cant get by the first half hour in mgs and hate the game from there on in, is narrow minded. Now I fear i might start a flame war if this continue about the Narrow mindness of people, as nobody likes being called that.

hmm, i would like to keep this at heated debate level, so what havent we covered? ah music!, obisously mgs wins that round. But i' ll pwn you later rampage, this tiredness of your must be infuectus...

I hear you on the narrowmindedness comment. I too agree that the MGS series is great, but indeed it faulters compared to SC.

I' ll give you credit on the music though. Anyway, I still can' t think because I have to stay up all night tonight working on another final. Alright 2 nights in a row with no sleeping! I' ll probably take a little nap just so I don' t pass out at work tomorrow.

Anyway, I still can' t think because I have to stay up all night tonight working on another final.

And the Splinter Cell review

Yeah... that too. you know what. I will finish that this week. I just gotta go get the game back from my friend.

I just calmly sit in my corner and say that you can' t really compare the 2 games together. I' d say that SC should be compared to that Starcraft: Ghost game with that chick wanting to sneak around and all. That soooo reminds me of Splinter Cell.