Here we have the queen as the nominal head of state, but also titled as defender of the faith for the Church of England, so both are entwined.

Marriage however as a legal position is controlled by the state, so getting married in a church while having all the Christian extras has the same legal mandate as one which takes place in registry office, hotel, temple, or rollercoaster. Gays can engage in civil partnerships which entitle them to some benefits of a heterosexual marriage, but as far as I am aware they are still denied some things.

It seems to work, people get married where they are comfortable, the documentation at the end is the same.

When you marry in church you get Gods blessing and it' s a little more magical.
I think that' s why gay couples would like to marry in a real church. Lots of gay people are religious and maybe even semi-christian so they probably want to marry with Gods blessing. The thing is, they will never get the blessing of the one true God of christianity. It would be against his teachings.
If they think they can get Gods blessing then they have their own non-christian belief. And as such, they have no right to be married in a true christian church.
So my advice for them is to start their own religion or something.

So religion should dictate how a person or persons should life their lives? Is that what you are saying, if 2 people who love and respect each other just happen to be the same sex, but happen to follow the christian faith, then they should be denied the chance to make their commitment to each other in their place of worship? Well I thought religion was based on hypocrisy and now my thoughts are true.

Homosexuality is against the norm but then again, so is cacophilia, foot fetishists, S&M worshipers. Would you deny them a wedding in a church too? Homosexuality is not something that should be publically displayed or forceible taught to children, which was the case in question, however it should not be totally irradicated, otherwise you are starting to want to clean up the gene pool, and where would that end, maybe we should get rid of the blacks or the Asians, I know we' ll get rid of all those without Blond hair, are jewish and don' t live in Germany...hmmm sound familliar to anyone.

Studies have clearly shown that homosexuals show signs of having a brain that is more like the opposite sex in the area that supposedly controls sexuality. You can deny it all you want but it' s a fact.

Thats not fact, that is a theory. It cant be proven and it never will be able to be proven that you will be gay before you' re even born, its idiotic to even think that its possible. Thats like a doctor walking in and saying " Im afraid I have bad news. According to our test results.... you' re gay!"

Thats not fact, that is a theory.

These are undeniable facts:
-Differences exist in the structure of the brains from different genders. You can actually see if a brain belongs to a male of female. In some cases males have the structure of a female brain and vice versa. In those cases, the persons also had characteristics that belonged to the opposite sex.
Undeniable facts measured by instruments. It' s NOT a theory.

-Homosexual men had, in almost all cases, the same structure as females have when it comes to the regions that are believed to control sexuality. It was closely measured by very accurate instruments.

Those are facts, the rest are theories. But considering the facts above, it is most likely that a persons sexuality and behaviour (in terms of female/male behaviour) is to some extent determined before we are born.

its idiotic to even think that its possible.

Why? What research are you basing that on? How did you make such a conclusion?

Thats like a doctor walking in and saying " Im afraid I have bad news. According to our test results.... you' re gay!

That could very well be reality in the future if research is continued and society approves such tests.

-Homosexual men had, in almost all cases, the same structure as females have when it comes to the regions that are believed to control sexuality.

See the bolded text? That basically shatters the whole theory. If their not positive that the region of the brain controls sexuality, then its impossible for them to be sure that gay men have the sexual structure of a woman.

Yes but let' s pretend that the mentioned part of the brain doesn' t control sexuality.
Do you not find it rather interesting that gay men have one part of the brain, all of them the same part of the brain, that is just like a female brain?
So even if it' s not the part that controls sexuality, it still shows that gay men have a common structure in their brains. And since the structure is just like womens, it would make no sense if it did not have anything to do with their sexuality.
In any case, it shows that gay men have a common biological structure that they can' t control.
Are you afraid of research on sexuality? To me it sounds like it. You really try todeny the fact that science can actually calculate the probability of someone being gay.
What is the problem with that anyway?

Yes but let' s pretend that the mentioned part of the brain doesn' t control sexuality.
Do you not find it rather interesting that gay men have one part of the brain, all of them the same part of the brain, that is just like a female brain?

What if a man that has never had a thought of gayness had a brain like that of a female?

Are you afraid of research on sexuality? To me it sounds like it. You really try todeny the fact that science can actually calculate the probability of someone being gay.
What is the problem with that anyway?

I just think its stupid because what if they decide that they' re right but cant prove it? Are they just going to treat you like you are gay when you are just a child? In America they always talk about how we can have a choice to do what we want to, which i only believe to a certain extent and this is one of those that i believe. I dont think they can just determine your future by comparing brains. Is it not possible that men can have feminine brains and not be gay? I know many feminine males that are strait. I just dont think they can determine your sexual orientation by doing a simple test, i think its entirely up to the person.

What if a man that has never had a thought of gayness had a brain like that of a female?

Then he is what you call " an exception" . Also, other factors affect sexuality, like childhood and such. Your genes and your biological structure only lays the foundation and shows what' s most likely to become of you.
But you' re using the words " what if" . Well, if that would happen then it will be difficult to determine why he has not become gay. But so far, I have not seen such situations where a gay-brained guy is not homosexual. It is of course interesting to see if further studies will show such examples and the research in the area will be truly interesting to follow.

I just think its stupid because what if they decide that they' re right but cant prove it?

Professional scientists never say they' re 100% certain. They only show what their research has shown to be a probably answer to a question. But they are never certain. If we do not follow logic and chose to believe in what' s most likely, than what would you prefer us to believe in? Word on the street? Personal feelings? Pure chance? I prefer to follow science that presents studies that show what is most likely to be an answer to a question. If you have a better way then please tell me.

Are they just going to treat you like you are gay when you are just a child?

And what do you mean by that? Should gay people be treated differently?

I dont think they can just determine your future by comparing brains.

Of course they can' t. they can only measure the probability of certain things. But their calculations can often be very accurate. I do not see any reason to diagnose a persons sexuality anyway. I think people need to discover their sexuality for themselves. And try not to care too much. Just enjoy the things they are interested in. Science has no need to butt in and tell people how they should be. However, it can be useful when questions are asked.

Is it not possible that men can have feminine brains and not be gay?

That is true, the studies I' m refering to never intended to study homosexuals. The studie was supposed to focus on differences between males and females. The facts about homosexuals came as a surprising " bonus" .
The brain have different regions that handle different tasks. Many men can be female in almost every region and still be hetersexual. Just as long as the part that is believed to control sexuality isn' t female. That' s why I find it very likely that homosexuality is partly controlled by that particular area. Because it' s when that area alone, is like the opposite sex, that a person is more likely to be a homosexual.

I know many feminine males that are strait.

It' s very hard for amateurs like us to determine if a persons behaviour is based on his biological structure or other factors. And many things that are considered to be manly or girly are created by society and does not have anything to do with biology at all.

I just dont think they can determine your sexual orientation by doing a simple test, i think its entirely up to the person.

So you' re saying that a person chooses his sexual preferences?

And what do you mean by that? Should gay people be treated differently?

Im reffering to the people the child grows up around such as parents. Like the parent trying push them into being gay just because a doctor runs a test that says he has a gay brain

I think people need to discover their sexuality for themselves.

Thats exactly how i feel

So you' re saying that a person chooses his sexual preferences?

Yes, i think everyone has a free will to choose/like/think what ever they want.

Im reffering to the people the child grows up around such as parents. Like the parent trying push them into being gay just because a doctor runs a test that says he has a gay brain

Well, that would be wrong of course. And diagnosing someones sexuality would be pretty unnecessary IMO. Tests can sometimes show the wrong result when you do them on the individual level, so it' s better to keep the research at a level where it' s simply pure genus science.

Yes, i think everyone has a free will to choose/like/think what ever they want

I' d love to believe that myself, and I do in many cases. However I' ve seen and read many things that says otherwise, especially in areas such as the one being debated here right now.

The thing is, they will never get the blessing of the one true God of christianity.

Who says that the Christian God is the one true god? You most likely say that because you were raised to believe so. There are many other religions out there. Are they all wrong and Christians just happened to get it right? Religion is only a way for primitive societies to rationalize their existence since they couldn' t really comprehend anything else. Those teachings got passed down through the generations.

I' m not religious so I have no opinion of Gods.
But withinchristianity they only have one true God
Gay people do not follow his teaching as written in the Bible and as such they should respect the rules of the teachings they have chosen to follow, by not marrying. If they believe that God has nothing against homosexuals and that they should be allowed to marry, then they' re not christian because they' re opposing the core teachings of christianity. They can be neu-christians or whatever, I don' t care.
Religions constantly evolve in order to survive through the times. Perhaps now is a time when christianity will decline (as it already has in Sweden) and new religions will rise. Religions adapted to gay people.

In The Simpsons they often say
" I' d like to hear from Sideshow Mel"

Well, since this is Kikizo I' ll say
" I' d like to hear from Eddie_the_Hated"

OK I gotcha. I agree that it is up to the churches themselves to decide whether they like that kind of stuff.

Well, since this is Kikizo I' ll say
" I' d like to hear from Eddie_the_Hated"

Eddies probably using common since and doesnt want to get involved with this pointless argument. Im not saying its pointless because it involves gay rights and what not, im saying its pointless to argue over opinions, especially when we all come from different parts of the world and were raised differently. The thread has been blown way out of its original proportion and has caused many arguments such as the Majik vs Rampage debate which wasnt exactly a good outcome

Eddie probably does have something to say on the subject. I' m pretty sure he' s Gay...

I believe Rampage is right. I don' t necessarily agree with his opinions, but he has his beliefs, and he' s living them. Not just saying that he' s Christian, but actually living the life. That' s not an easy feat. Much respect for that!

And I have news for you, Nitro. Not all Christians are bad people. You act as though Rampage is going around condemning gays. As if he' s saying that their gay acts must be stopped at all costs! All he said was that he believes it' s wrong. You know what he means. God says that it' s an abomination, so it' s wrong. Anybody can sit here and ask him to come up with a " scientific" or " logical" explanation, but we all know that it' s based on religion, so why argue? Rampage is a good kid. He' s not hurting anyone by saying that homosexuality is wrong by his religions standards, so let' s just let that dog lie.

As far as this scientific data mapping the brain; it' s horse-shit! Scientists are tinkerers and theorists. The bottom line is that they don' t know. There' s compelling arguements on BOTH sides of that camp, so let' s just wait and see if they come up with something concrete in the future. I mean, when they can turn a gay person straight, and a straight person gay, then I' ll believe! (and I' ll stay away from those MFers!)

To recap:

Rampage has a belief that is inline with his religion, which he has patterned his life after. Nitro has decided that Rampage cannot have this opinion because he doesn' t like Christianity, and therefore he cannot like Rampage (or his mom, obviously). Rampage is being a bit sensitive and should probably just leave this thread alone.

He doesn' t have an opinion " inline" with his religion. His opinion has been formed by his religion. If he hadn' t been brought up as an orthodox Christian then there' s a good chance he would view it differently.

No i don' t like Christians. I don' t like any religion.

But it' s like ginjirou said, i' m not judging him as a whole. I' m judging his opinion on Gay people, and his opinion is tied directly to his religious beliefs.

Like Joe said...

Religion is only a way for primitive societies to rationalize their existence since they couldn' t really comprehend anything else. Those teachings got passed down through the generations.

Religion teaches you that homosexuality is wrong, but not why. That' s why Rampage couldn' t explain why it' s wrong. It' s ok to have an opinion if you can explain it, but opinions formed because of bullshit like religion are hardly opinions at all. It' s like his vow to refrain from having sex until he' s married. Why? Because his religion says so? Well then it' s not an opinion at all is it.

Oh, and his...

Make another comment about my mom again and I will actively fight to have you banned from this forum.

I will be talking to Adam about this.

...shit is laughable.

But hey, it' s good to see you back Chee Saw. It' s been a while since you last posted right?

Now its some time since I did Bible studies (I dabbled in Evangelism at Uni but decided it wasn' t my cup of tea), but I don' t think Jesus ever said ' don' t be gay' . It certainly says it in the Old Testament, but then it says a lot of tripe there that Christians don' t follow. Jesus said it was far more important how you lived that it was far more important being nice to one another, doing good deeds, rather than living life to some rigidly defined set of rules.

If we all loved one another like brothers then the world would be a much happier place.

But going back to the original thread, children of a young age shouldn' t be shown sexual material (homo or hetero) until they are emotionally ready, and after parental consent. Religious beliefs on this are irrelevant, it is just common sense.