But it' s not like the film is that sexually charged. The only nudity is during a very very brief heterosexual scene, and that' s just some womans breasts.

The reason it got the rating it did in the US is because it' s about homosexuals.

As far as this scientific data mapping the brain; it' s horse-shit! Scientists are tinkerers and theorists.

Umm, yeah right.
I' d rather believe in people who has facts and statistics that makes logic sense. Lots of scientific research is only theories that hasn' t been backed up by strong facts. But in this case there is too much to call it horse-shit. If you guys want to believe in something else than science then go ahead but that' s like going back to the stone age. It is people who call science " horse-shit" that is holding back society from developing.
Every great scientist who has made huge leaps in their respective fields have been called crazy, that they talk bullshit. But without them humanity would be nothing. Nothing I tell you! Just a bunch of monkeys!
I can' t understand how you do not listen to science and its pure logic. We get so many benefits by using the knowledge we accquire.
People want to believe in science that has given us the television, the car and medicin but they do not want to believe in studies that show us how we work? I think people are scared of science. That it will prove how predictable and simple we really are. There' s no difference between us and robots. We are built by components, all programed before we are born. We are just carrying out what we have been programed to do.

Gay Brain

WTF would you show Brokeback mountain. If you wanted to scar the kids use Basic Instincts 2.

Population is derived mostly from economics. Poor countries breed faster because children can help with the family, rich countries have people with fewer kids because kids are expensive. That' s the primary control for population right there.

If it was because of money then every millionaire would have 100 kids... money isn' t what stops me from wanting to have 10 kids, it' s just that I don' t like kids enough to have 10 of them.

As for speculating about tribes as Evil Man' s example, who gives a shit about tribes? None of us live in tribes.

But we evolved in nomadic lifestyles living in small groups, thus we developed traits suited for the situations of those conditions. In the example I gave, as unlikely as it is to happen, homos would be a devastating threat.

And you can like homosexuals by conditioning, but it isn' t natural for you to like them. A " Wild" human would not like homosexuals. Many creatures can be made to act and behave unnaturally through training, humans aren' t exempt.

" Anybody can sit here and ask him to come up with a " scientific" or " logical" explanation, but we all know that it' s based on religion, so why argue"

I hate when people say we shouldn' t question religion. That' s the biggest load of shit anyone can say. Religion is so full of it, they make the wildest claims without an ounce of evidence. Then they say their class is above everyone else. The most sexist, racist and homophobic garbage is often found in religious doctrin. Christians can be the worst, they' ll tell you that you have no morals because you have no faith, and they' ll even say that people from other religions are amoral because they believe in a different invisible sky daddy...right. No offence Rampage, it' s nothing personal.

Of course none of these stupid issues and ignorant ideas are put to rest because no one is allowed to question religion. That' s so ***ing hypocritical. Christians love to dish it out but they don' t want anyone questioning their ideas. Everything in the bible must be right.

" A " Wild" human would not like homosexuals."

A wild human wouldn' t care, and wouldn' t even know what a homo is unless they saw one. Look at the Dwarf chipanzees, the whole species is bisexual. They *** the closest chimp, they don' t care. The main reason humans are mostly not bisexual is due to the fact that we' re monogamous and therefore we' re more selective of our mates. To put it simply, the less sexual partners a species has on average the more heterosexual they will be. Once you understand this, you' ll also understand why we have less bisexuals than homosexuals. It' s almost a direct correlation.

That' s why homosexuality could never threaten a species. It is genetic and partly environmental but it' s not one single gene, there is no gay gene. Nor is there a right or wrong in nature, the only time something is wrong is when it dies.

I hear what you' re saying, Agent Ghost, but what I' m saying is that people attacking someone' s religion is not " debate" . It is merely attacking. It causes more harm than good. By the end of this thread do you thing Rampage will be more, or less receptive to the views of people dogging his religion and his mom?

As far as the " gay brain" goes, what I' m saying is that even Einstein' s theory of relativity is being questioned nowadays. This is a basic foundation for the way we view the universe, but it may not be 100% accurate, 100% of the time. So, yes, all the evidence that they show is very compelling and interesting, but I didn' t do the research, and thusly, would not bet my life on the results.

ORIGINAL: Ornodeal

If we all loved one another like brothers then the world would be a much happier place.

Amen, brother!

ORIGINAL: Nitro

But hey, it' s good to see you back Chee Saw. It' s been a while since you last posted right?

Thanks! Yeah, I' ve been busy. They changed some things at work, so my minds been preoccupied with that. Plus I' ve been hanging out with real people between work and sleep (not that you guys aren' t real, but... you know.)

but what I' m saying is that people attacking someone' s religion is not " debate" . It is merely attacking. It causes more harm than good. By the end of this thread do you thing Rampage will be more, or less receptive to the views of people dogging his religion and his mom?

In this case I started arguing with Rampage because it seemed he had other reasons than religion for disliking homosexuals. If he would' ve said
" I' m christian and my God says that gays are wrong" then I would' ve just said
" Okay, I' m not christian so I don' t care about homosexuals." and that would' ve been it.

As far as the " gay brain" goes, what I' m saying is that even Einstein' s theory of relativity is being questioned nowadays. This is a basic foundation for the way we view the universe, but it may not be 100% accurate, 100% of the time. So, yes, all the evidence that they show is very compelling and interesting, but I didn' t do the research, and thusly, would not bet my life on the results.

I' m also constantly questioning the scientific results and I' m 100% sure that most of what we " know" is wrong in one way or the other. An important part of science is always questioning our current knowledge.
Everything we base our research on is based on what the human mind can perceive, but there are lots of things that are beyong human understandning. Just like fish can' t do math, humans might not be able to understand more complex structures of reality.
But since we have to live our lives as well, we have no time to wait 100 years for further results, and thus we must use the most likely results of today as the facts on which we found our lifestyles.
I' m sure that if there' s a God, there' s a scientific explanation for Him, even though we might not be able to fully understand it

ORIGINAL: Chee Saw

what I' m saying is that people attacking someone' s religion is not " debate" . It is merely attacking. It causes more harm than good. By the end of this thread do you thing Rampage will be more, or less receptive to the views of people dogging his religion and his mom?

Who cares whether he' s more receptive to other people' s views!? Basing your opinion on something like homosexuality on religion is borderline retarded. He thinks it' s wrong because he' s been conditioned to think it' s wrong, and in his head he doesn' t need to know why it' s wrong, just that God says so. Arguing that he thinks that anal sex is disgusting is fine, but it' s bullshit. He' s against same sex sex, men or women, he' s never had sex himself and won' t until he' s married and thinks that sex is just about procreation. It' s bullshit.

I don' t give a fuck whether people are born Gay or whether it' s something they subconsciously or consciously choose. I have no right to condemn them for being attracted to and being intimate with members of the same sex. Not only is it none of my fucking business, but who the fuck am i to say that it' s wrong?

Brokeback Mountain isn' t explicit or even that sexually charged. In many countries it received far lower ratings than in America. But because the film is about homosexuality it received a high rating.

ORIGINAL: Chee Saw

Thanks! Yeah, I' ve been busy. They changed some things at work, so my minds been preoccupied with that. Plus I' ve been hanging out with real people between work and sleep (not that you guys aren' t real, but... you know.)

Uh huh. Like is said, it' s nice to see you posting again.

That' s the thing though, Nitro; if I believed that the bible was the word of the one true God, then I' d be hell bent on following every word of it! As such, I respect the effort that people put forth into their convictions. Can those convictions be misplaced, or even dangerous? Yes. Take Al Qaida for instance. But I believe that Rampage is a good person, and would never harm anyone based on the fact that he considers their lifestyle " wrong" or different.

I don' t know; maybe it' s just me, but I' d rather have a productive debate or discussion, than be in a converstion where, no matter what, in the end both sides will be more deeply entrenched in their views. I mean, honestly, I can be pretty pig-headed sometimes, but I do enjoy coming away from a conversation with something to, at least, think about. I just feel that we can all benefit each other here. We just all need to put ourselves in the shoes of others.

No sane person can follow everything in the bible, it' s such an evil, error filled, self contradicting turd.

Look at the Evangelical Christians, that' s what they try to do. They' re crazy enough to take everything in the bible seriously. Technically they' re the true Christians. People like Shirley Phelps are completely out of their minds. But you know what? At least they don' t brand themselves with one religion and cherry pick what they like and throw out the rest. I think moderate christians piss me off more than the extremists for this reason.

If I could look past the history I know and empirical and rational evidence against the existance of God, and somehow be convinced that there was a Supreme being and Bible is the word of God. I would either accept everything in the Bible or I would stop being a Christian. If someone truely believes that the Bible is the word of God they have a lot of balls to take the parts that are wrong and just throw them out. Every Christian I' ve ever spoken to will take the parts they like and call that the word of God and the parts they don' t like and forget about it. Amazing hypocracy. At least Shirly Phelps is consistant.

If you' re a Christian or a member of any grandiose cult, the least you can do for the sake of humanity is to keep your religion to yourself. You don' t even have to mention it when talking about your beliefs. Why add " because God told me so" at the end of every idea? Religion isn' t a free pass, you still have stand up for your beliefs.

I think the vast majority of people who call themselves Christian (i.e. the moderate ones) have ever read the Bible or could quote what bits they do or do not follow - it is more of a badge or club for them.

It is the Evangelical nutters who annoy me; they spend all their time trying to show each other how much more Christian they are than anyone else, without realising that none of that is really what Christianity is about.

The reason most christians don' t follow the Bible in every way is because the Bible is very symbolic. And that' s why there are so many religions with the same Bible, because it can be interpreted in various ways.
The symbolism is supposed to help each person find God for himself.
I' ve seen some religious groups say " seek and you shall find" , suggesting that it' s up to you to discover God.
The Bible is to many a symbolically written guide, not a strict set of rules.
Even though it isn' t written by God, and even though it' s full of contradictions and down right nasty things, it is an interesting book that contains lots of knowledge, history and cool stories.
I haven' t read the whole Bible from beginning to end but the parts I did read when I was younger was very interesting.
I' m actually thinking of reading it now that I think of it.

The Bible is a collective of writings that anybody can interpret in their own way, this is the same with the Koran, the Veda and the Upanishads, this is how the fundamentalists and the extremists can get away with calling for Holy Wars, it is by interpretation, this is what make religion the hypocrisy it is today, and this is being shown in this thread, and also with the grandparents suing the school, I am sure somewhere it tells you to " love your fellow man."

It' s funny how the proof of homosexualism being OK is because animals do it. LOL.

We' re not comparable to ***ing monkeys.

Just because a dog will piss wherever he wans doesn' t mean its perfectly normal behavior for me to pull besides your car and take a piss on it, comparing humans to animals is retarded.

It' s even more fun how obvious it is that you don' t understand what people are talking about. Go live in your own little world.

I live in reality.

YOU go live in your world where it' s perfectly normal to stick your cock up another guy' s ass, faggot.

I' ve avoided this for as long as possible, as flame-wars diffuse after a while, but this has jumped so far along in the post count I' d be a moron not to try to calm things down. First off, this is all coming from my perspective as straight male Irish-Catholic, one with incredibly close friends who are engaging in homosexual lifestyles.

I don' t like thinking about my friends engaging in same-sex intercourse, it' s just not my style. I don' t support their homosexual lifestyles, however I do support them as a person. I was raised by a very religious mother, and a very practical father. I learned that you can dislike what a person is doing without disliking the person themselves.


Majik, I have tons of respect for you, & you' ve taught me a lot in the past year or so I' ve known you, but what you said to Rampage was way out of line. He' s stated his opinion without bringing personal insults into the situation, and I' d expect the same dignity from you. He stated posts earlier that his mother had been abused, there was no decent way for you to know that prior, but taking potshot after potshot at his mom after you knew he was unusually touchy about the subject wasn' t decent. If gay people can stick up for being gay, why can' t religious people stick up for being religious? He' s not saying he wants to harm or kill gay people, he just doesn' t support the lifestyle. I can respect gays, but I can also respect christians too. I know you may not take stuff like that seriously, but he does. I think you owe him an apology at least for the rude comments.

There' s a big difference between this forum and the rest of the gaming news sites on the internet. We all come from drastically different countries, ethnicities, backgrounds, parenting styles, religions (or lack thereof), and moral beliefs. This is a blessing and a curse. The majority of us disagree on one thing or another, that' s just what happens when you get 20 people in the same " room" who' ve known eachother for a while, however there' s no reason we can' t be decent with eachother. I disagree with Ghost getting hammered all the time, but I still think he' s a good guy, and carry on quite civily with him.

It' s incredibly detatching being behind a monitor posting to somebody without a face. You tend to lose sight of the fact that there' s a human being behind the curtain. I mean, if a good majority of the things that were said in this thread were occuring live, there would be arrests for disturbing the peace. It disappoints me when I see lame stuff like this going on. Major props to Ginj, you' ve set an example time and time again as to how we should be debating on Kikizo.

This really was one of the lowest things to do on my list, but it felt like it needed doing. Majik, I hope you can muster up an apology to Rampage. Rampage, I hope you can forgive Majik. You guys are both cool, and it really sucks to see you up in arms like this. Remember, if we keep this up we' re no better than the uncultured masses.

Respect, regards, peace and good-night,

Eddie_the_Hated

Evil you' re an idiot. Man is not a slave to nature. Technology and medical science has allowed us to negate disease, natures primary form of population control. Because of technology and medical science, infants that were never intended to survive are instead permited to live.

We' ve already unbalanced the ecosystem and caused the extinction of many thousands of species. Natural selection no longer applies to us. We are the most un-natural creature ever to have existed on this planet.

ORIGINAL: Evil Man


And you can like homosexuals by conditioning, but it isn' t natural for you to like them. A " Wild" human would not like homosexuals. Many creatures can be made to act and behave unnaturally through training, humans aren' t exempt.

The ability to behave unnaturally is one of mankind' s merits. It' s not natural from an evolutionary standpoint for one group to help another group without a tangible benefit to themselves. Better to kill them and take their possessions to secure our own community' s welfare.
If we were bound by what we define as " natural" the nations we have wouldn' t exist.
Someone would ALWAYS be trying to kill the current leader.
EVERY war would lead to genocide.

Society as we know it exists because of our ability to resist instinctual urges to a degree.
My point is that it' s not ok to hate or distrust a group of people simply because of instinct. Humans should act like humans.
Gay people pose no real threat.
People who find homosexuality threating do so because it' s so much of a foreign concept to them.
That includes the people who condemn it based on religion, since religion is really simply a set of traditional values.
Different is always scary.
A rational person won' t let that fear form opinions for them.

My personal opinion? Gay people don' t affect me. If a gay person moves next door, it' s not going ot make it any more difficult for me to raise my child. I' m not going to suddenly start desiring men.

However, the rules of my government DO affect me. So, when I see a group of people being rejected and discriminated against because the " moral majority" says so, it worries me.

That' s why things like a federal ban on gay marriage are so disturbing to me. It' s the majority, in the guise of protecting themselves from something that' s not truly a threat, limiting the rights of a segment of society. That should never be tolerated.

Individual groups like religions and families can do whatever they want, but the state is supposed to protect EVERYONE.