http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/14/news_6102542.aspx

' yawn'

FPS is FPS. Just like all the other installments, this is DOOM with upgraded graphics and little else. If I want a fresh first-person experience, I' ll play CoR or Deus Ex or something.

Regardless of what some think of this game I' m pretty excited. There' s nothing better than taking it old school every once and awhile. And correct me if I' m wrong but I thought they wanted to make this kind of a survivor horror FPS. Either or I' m looking forward to the game.

ORIGINAL: fathoms

' yawn'

Lol, that' s a funny stance coming from a guy with a Doom3 avatar.

Graphics aside, hopefully this game has some new elements about it. The gameplay has been kept a little more secret than Half Life 2. Who knows, maybe id has something up their sleeve

' yawn'

FPS is FPS. Just like all the other installments, this is DOOM with upgraded graphics and little else. If I want a fresh first-person experience, I' ll play CoR or Deus Ex or something.

I don' t understand why you are being so cynical... I' d just like to say regardless of how this game turns out, your statement has no backing- you haven' t played it yet. Judge later.

PS2Poodoo: Heh...I was given that avatar.

MuteCity: My statement has the backing of the public release regarding gameplay and modes of gameplay. There' s nothing new. They' ve already released the complete list of DOOM 3' s menu options, I believe (see recent previews on the ' Net). It' s a graphical upgrade, and let' s face it: that is the ONLY reason this game is getting any hype. When 100% of all the hype is based on the graphical presentation of a game, I can' t help but be cynical...you know, seeing as how I have yet to purchase a game only because it looks pretty.

And just for the record, FPS is basically my second-favorite genre behind RPG' s. Most all of them are fun, but before CoR, I hadn' t seen a truly fresh and unique first-person experience since Deus Ex...and that was six years ago. It' s just a genre that' s getting stale, and I don' t think DOOM 3 will be " fresh" in any sense of the word. Just great graphics...exact same gameplay I' ve been experiencing for years.

Well ok fathoms, it' s not going to be a fresh experience. But can you really say that some of your favorite series of games aren' t just rehash after rehash? Final Fantasy? I think JRPG' s are getting just as stale, I can' t remember the last time I had a fresh experience in this genre....Gran Turismo! More cars? More tracks? Going around in circles?Upgraded graphics? this will turn the racing game world upside down! Yayy...I can be just as cynical as you

I guess I am wrong being excited for this game, but whatever...I am.

Nope. Anyone who' s actually played the FF games would never say such a thing. There has not been a single aspect of any FF that has remained the same. Everything changes in each installment. The turn-based combat was basically a hybrid with Active mode turned on in FF X, and FF X-2 actually was real-time, unless you turned on the " Wait" option. None of them use the same method of character advancement/enhancement (Espers in FF VI, Materia in FF VII, Junction in FF VIII, Sphere Grid in FF X, Class/Job system in FF X-2; also found in FF V, but very different). None of them use the same story, same characters, or same world. I have yet to find a recurring theme in any of them. Hell, they didn' t even USE " levels" in FF X.

Gran Turismo is racing; i.e., sports. They are limited to the realistic rules that come with them. You can' t " tweak" a simulation unless it' s in the effort of realism. What more can be added to a racing simulation besides what you' ve listed? What, you want the cars to fly? It' s a poor and impossible comparison to an FPS.

FPS is, based on the title of the genre alone, limited to a certain style of gameplay. " First-person" means just what it says, so you will always have the same view. " Shooter" , again, means just what it says. The mechanics of an FPS was basically solidified as soon as the vertical plane of sight for aiming was added with the advent of DOOM and and Duke Nukem (the very first FPS, Wolfenstein 3D only operated on the X-axis, or horizontal). Then they went through a polishing period that saw milestones with Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, and most recently, Far Cry.

There just isn' t much left to do. RPG' s are entirely different; so many aspects can be changed. Story, characters, how you advance your characters, turn-based vs. real-time (and hybrids like Star Ocean or Secret of Mana), etc., etc. etc. What this means is that the GAMEPLAY can be entirely altered from one RPG to the next. The genre allows it. FPS, as defined by its very title, does not.

DOOM 3 will probably be a great FPS. In fact, I have almost no doubt in my mind that it will be. But after the " more of the same" from Far Cry and UT 2k4 this year, I' ve realized that the genre has basically tapped itself out. The only thing left is technical advancement (which is the crux of the FPS in the first place). Which isn' t to say people can' t or shouldn' t have fun with it; if I was willing to spend an asinine amount of money to upgrade my PC to the point where I could play it, I would. I' m not saying you " wrong" to be excited; many are.

But to me, it really is just more of the same, and you absolutely cannot say that about any other genre at this point in time in the VG industry.

Look fathoms, all I wanted to do was display some support in a game that I have some interest in. If you have no interest don' t reply, ok? It' s really annoying how you will argue about anything until you drive it into the ground. You act like one of those people who can never be wrong regardless of the argument. You' re a horrible role model employee for this site. You' ve lost my patronage and recommendation for Kikizo. I' m out.

I see.

Thanks for not reading a word of it. I was looking forward to an intelligent reply, because this thread had great potential. We could' ve talked about what' s next for FPS and where it could go (feasibly). Is it tapped out, or are there leaps yet to be made? What other style of games out there is reaching a stagnation point? What would we like to see from future titles, in the way of creativity rather than technical? That would' ve been really cool. I even went out of my way to say that DOOM 3 would be great. Too bad you didn' t see that part because you skipped it all and just made sh** up in your head about what I posted.

Unfortunately, with morons like yourself, stimulating discussion isn' t possible in here.

Unfortunately, with morons like yourself, stimulating discussion isn' t possible in here.

It' s sad that you didn' t see the entire point of this thread. As MuteCity posted, and later backed up, he made this thread to show excitement and the fact the PC version has gone gold. YOU twisted this thread around into another one of your debates, which in this thread would technically be spam. Hey, that' s a new one, you and spam, that fits well. And don' t even try calling him a moron or stupid when it was YOU who skewed this whole thread into something else entirely in the first place. If you don' t like a thread or what goes on in it, don' t post.


Now, to get back on topic, I' m actually excited that Doom 3 has finally gone gold on PC. Even though my PC cannot run Doom 3 at all, it' s good to hear the game is essentially finished (except for patches and some slight bug fixes most likely). Hopefully it won' t be too long before the Xbox version is released. Thanks for the update MuteCity, glad to see some people actually care about games ' round here.

Fuck you fathoms.
I' m no more a moron than you are an overanalytical windbag. It' s amazing you expect stimulating conversation on this site with a " Babes" section, what the hell kind of demographic do you think you guys are advertising to?

Why can' t I say use any of your argument against you with final fantasy? It' s all menu surfing...then you watch the battle play out. It' s very exciting. That coupled with a linear path to follow and witty dialogue and prettier graphics every new installment make for a fresh experience every time. Sure, they change things in final fantasy, but so many things remain the same. They closesly follow a template just like any other game maker because they have an established proptery that makes money fine just the way it is. Let' s not forget FF 11...that exciting new experience, no one has ever tried that before.

I believe the FPS and the RPG are oversaturated genres with little innovation. Why ruin something that sells itself I guess. FPS' s need a deeper story element and I' ve always found puzzle solving in this type of game cool instead of just straight up action. I' ve always thought fps' s did well on the immersion factor...the perspective it' s played from obviously and now techonology making it so you can interact with so much of the environment. Anyway...I think fps' s having varying degrees of quality and can be quite different games. I certainly don' t view them as all the same and I think it' s just as easy for someone to think that final fantasy games are all too similar, but really I can enjoy these games as well.

You know, I distinctly recall someone telling me that this was a " public forum" and not only positive responses should be expected. I guess that doesn' t apply to me, right?

This had potential. If I make this topic, and someone responds with exactly my words, you' d slam me for " not allowing people their opinion." Fu***** hypocrite.

Suit yourself. Like I said, it could' ve been a worthwhile thread. Lots of fun stuff worth discussing.

I am really not that floored by the graphics. Sure, at one point the game looked drop dead gorgeous, but after playing CoR I say, " Whoopdedo, its already been done." So it all comes down to gameplay, which, seeing as Doom is Doom, I doubt it will warrant a $50 purchase price. On the flip side, who knows, we still havent gotten our greedy little gamer hands on it yet. And Deus Ex? Fathoms, please tell me you mean the PC version, otherwise I dont see how you enjoy it at 25 FramesPerSecond during a firefight.

*** you fathoms.
I' m no more a moron than you are an overanalytical windbag. It' s amazing you expect stimulating conversation on this site with a " Babes" section, what the hell kind of demographic do you think you guys are advertising to?

Ah...are you admitting you' re incapable of stimulating discussion? Or are you insinuating that those who look at pictures of women are somehow less intelligent than others? As for " demographic," yes, I would hope that there is some sign of life.

Why can' t I say use any of your argument against you with final fantasy? It' s all menu surfing...then you watch the battle play out. It' s very exciting. That coupled with a linear path to follow and witty dialogue and prettier graphics every new installment make for a fresh experience every time. Sure, they change things in final fantasy, but so many things remain the same. They closesly follow a template just like any other game maker because they have an established proptery that makes money fine just the way it is. Let' s not forget FF 11...that exciting new experience, no one has ever tried that before.

It would help if you actually play the games you try to discuss. " Menu-surfing" in any other RPG where you select commands, or even in strategy games, is somehow not seen as something negative...only if it' s associated with FF, because that' s traditionally been the format. Selecting a command is exactly the same thing as pressing a button; you' re just presented with more options than there are buttons. Therein lies the strategy; with literally thousands of options, especially once the game is truly delved into, offers a far deeper experience for many people. If it doesn' t for you, fine. The only " template" they follow is that of an RPG. Unless of course you can explain to me what has remained the same, which you didn' t do.

I believe the FPS and the RPG are oversaturated genres with little innovation. Why ruin something that sells itself I guess. FPS' s need a deeper story element and I' ve always found puzzle solving in this type of game cool instead of just straight up action. I' ve always thought fps' s did well on the immersion factor...the perspective it' s played from obviously and now techonology making it so you can interact with so much of the environment. Anyway...I think fps' s having varying degrees of quality and can be quite different games. I certainly don' t view them as all the same and I think it' s just as easy for someone to think that final fantasy games are all too similar, but really I can enjoy these games as well.

What someone " thinks" is not my concern. This isn' t an opinion-based topic. Uninformed people think that Mario and Metal Gear are the same...i.e., they' re both video games. You know, like our parents. The point is that, by definition of the genre title alone, FPS is much more limited than RPG. I' m not sure why you' re only including FFs in that massive category, but the best way to make comparisons is to find the most different games within each category.

So, you would take something like Unreal and compare it to something like Deus Ex. Both are in the first-person view, both are indeed " shooters," and both use the same gameplay mechanics (i.e., controls). Deus Ex is different because it implements RPG elements, story, and character development. Unreal is based on pure action. But essentially, because the MECHANICS remain the same, the two games play in a very similar fashion.

Within the RPG category, you can compare something like KotoR to Suikoden III or Disgaea to Star Ocean. Turn-based vs. real-time vs. strategy/RPG vs. hybrid. Not only are all the characters, worlds, and stories different (as in Deus Ex vs. Unreal), but the entire gameplay format is different. Real-time and turn-based are as different as night and day (just ask Terry!), strategy is basically a whole other world (I' ve always thought that games like Disgaea should be in a separate strategy genre, but most publications don' t think that way, and lump it into the RPG genre), and various hybrids like Star Ocean (battle exists in real time, but can be paused to provide non-controlled characters with commands, and issue new battle strategy orders).....it could go on and on.

You say that FPS COULD innovate, in terms of story, puzzle, characters, and other things, but in truth, it hasn' t done that yet. And I don' t think DOOM 3 will do that, as it seems to be a prettier version of UT, and not much more. They' ve been honing and polishing a style of gameplay for the past decade, and those mechanics aren' t going to change much. The simple bottom line is that there is far more diverse world within RPG' s than there is within FPS. And again, this is NOT a implication as to either genre' s QUALITY; it' s simply a fact based on the rules and limitations for each. Now why wouldn' t you agree with that?

I have played the Final fantasy series (both SNES versions, FF7, and FF10) and I agree with Mutecity. The series is quite stale. The only thing new is that the music gets worse and worse with each game. Same goes for gran Turdismo. Same game. new cars. New tracks. BETTER GRAPHICS! Though the replays they always show are 100% misleading as the actual game looks like ass compared to the replays.

Wow... I didn' t even have to post to get this flame war started.

Same here...except I did post, but I didn' t start nothin' .

With that being said, let' s all watch fathoms make some more, " friends" , lol. Better grab his email because you' re going to want to keep in touch.

Lotusson/Yoshi: Time to leave, fu****. This isn' t even a flame war...as usual, you read nothing but the poster' s name. Maybe, if you could read what was written and provide useful discussion for once, you wouldn' t be the colossal jerks you are.

And Joe apparently can' t figure out that sports genres are limited to the real-life rules they emulate. Every new GT consists of more/new cars, more/new tracks, better racing physics, more/new upgrades, and better technicals (graphics, sound). Is there something ELSE a simulated racer could do? Do you want the cars to have weapons on them like TM? Or maybe you want them to fly? Much like in any other sport, you can easily say that racing is racing and football is football and baseball is baseball. You don' t exactly have a creative license when attempting to recreate those sports in an electronic version. Not sure why you can' t see this. As for FF, you can' t provide something that has remained the same in the franchise any more than MuteCity can.

I' m waiting on a response from MuteCity, who' s the only one that has presented at least one paragraph worth responding to. If other CHILDREN could figure out how to do this, we might get something worthwhile going.

Oh, and yoshi, you' re more than welcome to sign up at GameSpot to view my profile in the forums. There' s a little something called the " friends" page that you can view. You can also show up in the one forum that I have nearly 10,000 posts in and ask around all you want. But act like the asshole you are in here, and you' ll be booted AWFULLY quickly (and I' m not one of the mods, either). Fair warning.

I love how fathoms essentially ruined a thread about Doom going Gold on PC by spamming it up with his posts that are completely unrelated to the topic. But then again, fathoms probably can' t grasp the concept of spam. It' s simple: Stay on topic and it isn' t spam, do what you' re doing and go off topic horribly, then it' s spam.


Once again, on topic, the gameplay of Doom 3 looks pretty awesome IMO. I' ve usually loved the RE series for the whole " scare" (scare? at best it' s surprising) thing, but the combat hasn' t exactly been that great. Looks like Doom 3 is doing that scare thing, but with awesome combat. Anybody know if there' s a release date for the Xbox version yet? This is one of the rare games I' m actually hyped for.