Mark Rein: Silicon Knights are Thieves!

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I hope to god this kills Too Human. They could have hired me, i' d have fixed their broken shitty ass game and it would have sold millions. But Noooooooooo! Instead they insisted on being a weak as fuck sub-par developer who has only ever made 2 decent games, one of which was released over a decade ago...

They should fuck off back to Nintendo where they belong.

ORIGINAL: Nitro

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developer who has only ever made 2 decent games, one of which was released over a decade ago...

if by that you mean the twin snakes then im not following

You' re saying Eternal Darkness wasn' t more than " decent" ?

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Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness.

Both were good, decent was the wrong word to use, ...but neither were amazing.

Twin Snakes was awful.

I hope they go bankrupt.

I think calling Twins Snakes awful is a mistake, it might not have been all that if you played the first metal gear, but for a new comeer the game was great, there werent any flaws, controls were fine, storyline was fine, it was just a different art direction!

ORIGINAL: Nitro

Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness.

im an idiot

ORIGINAL: Nitro

Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness.

Both were good, decent was the wrong word to use, ...but neither were amazing.

Twin Snakes was awful.

I hope they go bankrupt.

Haven' t played Blood Omen so I can' t say anything about it but I think Eternal Darkness is amazing. A very rare gaming experience IMO. It had some flaws of course but it' d be a mistake to miss out on it.
Twin Snakes was a remake so you can' t really count that one.
Of course, the graphics were disappointing and they didn' t fix all the gameplay flaws but they still did a pretty good job of introducing a past-gen game to the current gen gamers.
The cut-scenes, which most people thought was afwul (I liked them ), were directed by Ryuhei Kitamura (Alive, Versus etc.) so you can' t really blame Silicon Knights for that either. I personally liked Twin Snakes and think it was a good improvement on the original, but not a perfect one.

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Damn nitro , u really hate too human dont u .. I am still keeping my fingers crossed on this one .. Hope they fix the crappy animations ...

After recent looks at the game. I have very little hope left for it. It could still suprise me, but they' d have to pull something really really impressive out of nowhere.

controls were fine

Aghahahahahaha HAAA-hahahahahahahahahaha!

Whooooo....

Good one VX.

No seriously. The game wasn' t terrible, but the controls really were the biggest problem in the game. If they had just mapped them a little bit differently, I probably would have had a much better impression of the game.

I think calling Twins Snakes awful is a mistake, it might not have been all that if you played the first metal gear, but for a new comeer the game was great, there werent any flaws, controls were fine, storyline was fine, it was just a different art direction!

While game is intact for the most part, they did screw up the presentation of the game, they really should have kept the old Va' s too.

Heres some comparsion' s from youtube

Sniper wolf Death:
Ps1
Twin Snakes

Gray Fox Death:
Ps1
Twin Snakes


I guess you dont miss what you didnt have, but when I was playing Twin Sankes, I just thought it was a missed opportunity.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

No, i don' t hate Too Human. The concept, although pretty generic, is great and the games art direction is mostly cool, ...but there' s too much wrong with it in it' s current state for me to believe it' s worth spending any more money on.

This is a game that started life on the original Playstation, moved to Gamecube and then to 360. Yes the concept has changed and no it' s not been in constant development but it' s something they' ve been working on for a stupid amount of time and the results so far are really unimpressive.

None of their games have been considered visually impressive and they aren' t known for their technical expertize so it' s no wonder that they' re struggling with a highly complex engine like UE3.0. It' s not even like they used previous versions of the Unreal engine for their previous games. What did they expect?

So even though nobody else has complained about UE3.0, ...because they haven' t been able to grasp it they want to blame the engine.

In the lawsuit they blame Epic' s " incomplete" engine for their poor E3 2006 showing when at the end of the day it was their decision to show the game at all. Vegas was shown in demo form too and looked/ran awesome/ly so it can' t be Epics fault.

Since then Knights have decided to mod the engine so they don' t have to pay royalties, but by modding it they' re infringing copyrights and usage agreements held by Epic, ...thus the counter suit.

Dyacks a moron anyway so if they lose, Human gets canceled, they go bankrupt or whatever, ...i would feel no sympathy. Epic has a proven track record of great games and is known for being a technical powerhouse, ...Knights have made two good games in the past decade, neither technically brilliant. Go figure.

Serves epic right.

This is a common law break ,company A promise to deliver at time B but doesnt.

They have legmit if true,and so far other companies seem to agree with them,or not companies but employs.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Silicon Knights received a " substantial discount" when purchasing the engine in the first place because a) Gears was still in development and the engine wasn' t 100% complete, and b) they agreed to use it for all of their next-gen 360 games.

Nobody knows what or when Epic promised to deliver. We don' t know any of the specifics yet, and we may not get to know. This has been going on for months and Knights have already said they were (illegally) modifying the technology provided by Epic and creating their own version of the engine.

Microsoft contracted Knights to provide a demo for E3 2006, and Knights chose to show the game in a very poor form. But the biggest complaints were regarding the gameplay and not the engine. Perhaps using UE3.0 is supposed to automatically make your game awesome?

Ubisoft were also contracted to provide a demo for E3 2006 and did, and it was great. But then Ubisoft Montreal > Silicon Knights in every single sense anyway.

Right now only Knights are being vocal, and are the only studio suing Epic. Nobody else is involved and nobody has been vocal in the press with regard to UE3.0 being " unworkable" .

NAMCO had problems with Frame City Killer because of their inexperience with western engines. Knights are just fucking useless. Too Human looks like ass in motion. The characters are lower poly than they should be, the textures are all over the place, the sound, animation, physics, cutscenes, collision detection and controls all look to be lame. It has no redeeming features in it' s current state. These things, while connectible to the engine, are down to Knights and not Epic.

I hope Microsoft drops Too Human. It doesn' t need to publish that trash.

This isn' t about having problem with the engine fro mthe start,its about not having the essenitial components for the engine.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Ok, so let me get this straight.

If I go out and buy a car, and get into an accident because I don' t know how to drive said car, I can sue car company using SK excuses regarding UE 3.0.

Bullshit. This game has so much potential, and what I would like to see, but doubt would ever happen, is if a different dev got their hands on this game. A competent developer, who can turn Too Human into what it should be, and not leave it in its garbage state.

SK, are going to lose their lawsuit, and moreover what make it even more funny is that fact that Epic will win their countersuit.

So long SK.

If I go out and buy a car, and get into an accident because I don' t know how to drive said car, I can sue car company using SK excuses regarding UE 3.0.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

If you order a car,and just get the steering wheel what would you do then?

Thats what they' re suing epic about.
Read the damn lawsuit ffs.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

It' s more like buying a car with bad brakes, and even though the manufacturer promises to fix the brakes they don' t. And then you crash.

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It' s more like Ginjirou said.
Because you can' t complain for crashing when you know the brakes was done for it.
The insurance company will then ask you,so you drove a car with brakes that didn' t work?Then you cant get money from us.
It' s the same with showing the game if you knew it didn' t work and then whine about it afterwards.
It sounds like its afterconstructed even if it wasn' t or not intended,SE should have acted earlier,much earlier.

You dont show it,whine about it and then sue.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

It' s more like buying a car with bad brakes, and even though the manufacturer promises to fix the brakes they don' t. And then you crash.

My bad.

Thanks ginj, and Quez. I did go back and read a little more on the lawsuit, and I still don' t see exactly what Epic lied about.

They told SK that what they were getting at the very beginning was not 100% complete since they were still working on Gears. SK knew this when they went into a contractual agreement with Epic.

Now where SK has completely screwed themselves over is in the fact that they " modded" the engine. A great big no, no.

If SK didnt feel screwed over they wouldnt have sued. I guess we' ll see who has it right after the lawsuit!

I dont care who wins, but SK definetly seem to be struggling with Next Gen development!

Hah. This is turning into a real back and forth shit-fight. It' s probably going to be so drawn out that by the time there is any resolution, people will have forgotten about Too Human.

Silicon Knights sucks ass.

Yep, Epic has got the most popular engine out there and is currently working on several anticipated games that will undoubtely sell millions on their current platforms.

SK on the other hand, even if they do have a case, are going nowhere up a creek and very quickly heading towards a waterfall.

I' m not following the usage of the UE3 very much.
Can someone please list all the games that are using the UE3, including titles both released and under development.

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Nitro is the man to do that for ya Ginji.

Released:

Rainbow Six
Gears of War

Unreleased:

Mass Effect
Too Human
Unreal III
Huxley
Lost Odyssey


There are probably many more in each category, but those are the most noticeble ones!

Unreal Engine 3
Aliens — (2009) Gearbox Software
America' s Army 3.0 — (2008) US Army
APB — (2008) Webzen
Black Powder Red Earth - (2007) Echelon Studios
Brothers In Arms: Hell' s Highway — (2007) Gearbox Software[34]
BioShock - (2007) Irrational Games
BlackSite: Area 51 — (2007) Midway Austin
DC Comics MMO — (TBA) Sony Online Entertainment
Earth No More — (2009) Recoil Games / 3D Realms
Elveon — (2007) 10tacle Studios[35]
Fatal Inertia — (2007) Koei[36]
Frontlines: Fuel of War — (2008) Kaos Studios
Fury — (2007) Auran[37]
Gears of War — (2006) Epic Games
Global Agenda — (TBA) Hi-Rez Studios[38]
Hour of Victory — (2007) Midway Games
Huxley — (2007) Webzen Games[39]
The Last Remnant — (2008) Square Enix
Lineage III — (TBA) NCsoft[40]
Lost Odyssey — (2007) Mistwalker[41]
Mass Effect — (2007) BioWare[42]
Medal of Honor: Airborne — (2007) Electronic Arts[43]
Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia — (2007) Artificial Studios[44]
RoboBlitz — (2006) Naked Sky Entertainment[45]
Rogue Warrior: Black Razor - (2007) Bethesda Softworks
Stargate Worlds — (2007) Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment[46]
Stranglehold — (2007) Midway Chicago[47]
The Scourge Project — (N/A) Tragnarion Studios
To End All Wars — (2008) Kuju Entertainment [48] [49]
Tom Clancy' s EndWar — (2008) Ubisoft
Tom Clancy' s Rainbow Six: Vegas — (2006) Ubisoft
(Too Human — (2009) Silicon Knights) - pending lawsuit (see above)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty — (2007) Spark Unlimited
Turok — (2008) Propaganda Games
Undertow — (2007) Chair Entertainment
Unreal Tournament 3 — (2007) Epic Games
Upcoming Mortal Kombat 8 Game — (Unknown) Midway Games
The Wheelman — (2007) Midway Games
HEI$T — (2007) InXile Entertainment
Various upcoming Sega titles will utilize the Unreal Engine [13]

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Thanks.
That' s a pretty long list. So, if you' d examine all the games there and the rate of progress as well as graphical qualities, what would your verdict on the UE3 be?

I haven' t checked all the games but IMO it seems like it can be used to create some really good looking stuff (Gears, BiA etc.) but only a few will make it there.
Some frame-rate issues are apparent and it seems it' s not good at 60 fps on the 360.

Considering the mentioned problems with PS3 development using the UE3, is the engine really a good alternative for developers, adding the fact that it from the start seems to require vast knowledge and resources to use?

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ORIGINAL: QuezcatoL


BioShock - (2007) Irrational Games

Quez, last i heard Bioshock is UE 2.5 wasnt it

mm I think SC:DA is that too,but they are named by wikipedia to be UE 3.0 :S

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Epic must be loaded at this stage.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

BioShock was originally running on UE2x but moved to UE3.0 nearly a year ago.

ALIENS! Shit I forgot about that game, goddamn that' s going to be good.

Too human --> 2009 ..WTH are silicon knights doin ??

WTH are silicon knights doin ??

Busy reading the instruction manual for the Unreal 3 engine.

Sk: wheres the teh make good game on this!!! Epic are Haxors!!!111

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!