MGS4 sells 1 million in the US, but only after 7 months.

Seriously? If its taking the biggest exclusives on the PS3 7 months to hit a million(in the US), there are problems. Large exclusives on the 360 are selling millions in the first month(days/weeks in most cases). Even multiplatform games are typically double, with games like CoD, Fallout, and GTA selling more on 360. PSP games arent selling, PS3 games arent selling. Now I cant say if the PSP is hardware profitable or not, but they definately need the software revenue to support the PS3.

On the non-gaming side, theyre TV division is having its ass kicked by better(Samsung, though I love my WEGA) and cheaper(Vizio) alternatives. Add in the fact that Blu Ray isnt anywhere near mass-market, and digital distribution and pirating lowering demand for physical discs in general.

So, with the terrible economy, and Sony trailing in almost every department, does anyone think it will even be possible for them to recover and be the power-house they once were?

Killzone 2 is kind of the last hope for PS3.

locopuyo


Killzone 2 is kind of the last hope for PS3.

If that is truly the case then there is no hope. ;)

Terry Bogard

locopuyo


Killzone 2 is kind of the last hope for PS3.

If that is truly the case then there is no hope. ;)

My bet is that Killzone 2 wont even sell more than the PS3 versions of Call of Duty. Killzone just isnt a recognized brand by your "average joe", and they definitely cant sell it on brand history. So unless there are phenominal reviews and a marketing budget bigger than MS gave Halo 3, then Killzone 2 wont even register sales-wise compared to CoD's, Gears, or Halo.

My bet is that Killzone 2 wont even sell more than the PS3 versions of Call of Duty.

FACT:

You're wrong.

People aren't idiots, if a game is the best it will sell. 

I'm not sure if any of you guys read Rob Fahey's GamesIndustry.biz editorials, but they're some of the best I've ever come across - here's his take on the PS3 in 2009:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/uphill-struggle_7

Regarding Killzone 2, you can argue convincingly that the brand doesn't carry much weight among consumers who favour Wii/DS, movie spin-offs, licensed sports updates - the amorphous "mainstream" market, in other words - but the idea that it doesn't pack a punch with the kind of gamer who plays military shooters and discusses his/her hobby online is ridiculous. Have you looked at N4G recently? :) Killzone is all over the shop. Fuck knows what kind of marketing Sony has in store offline, but the game's internet profile couldn't be higher.

I seriously, seriously doubt it'll disappear under the carpet, negative critical verdicts notwithstanding. We'll see, I guess.

Edwin
Fuck knows what kind of marketing Sony has in store offline, but the game's internet profile couldn't be higher.

Shenumue had a huge "internet profile", look how that did. A very vocal minority on hardcore gaming sites doesnt translate to mass sales. Im not saying it will sell poorly, but it wont put up Gears or Halo numbers. If even MGS4 cant sell, why would the sequel to a garbage game do better?

Also, you must be delusional if you think the Killzone "brand" carries any weight with FPS gamers. Anyone who will argue that Killzone 1 is good is either a fanboy or delusional.

Agent
People aren't idiots, if a game is the best it will sell. 

The game is an overhyped peice of garbage, as far as Im concerned(same with Gears). Guerilla Games has never put out a good game(just a decent PSP one), and the only reason anyone gives a shit about Killzone 2 is because there isnt a good FPS on the PS3. Its getting hyped out the ass as the "best FPS ever!!11!1ZOMG!!!1" because of some decent graphics.

And for you, I'll revise that bet. It wont sell more than the 360 versions of CoD.

The Killzone "brand" doesn't just cover Killzone 1 (a subaverage game, but not utterly without merit) or Killzone Liberation (a fantastic retro shooter) - it now encompasses four years' worth of screenshots, high definition trailers, hype-slathered articles, bigass event showings, yadda yadda. Saying that people won't buy the game in Feb because its home format predecessor fell short is, IMO, as shaky an argument as saying that people will buy the PS3 because PS2 was The Shit. In short, Killzone 2 isn't going to sell on the strength of Killzone's achievements - it's going to sell on the strength of being a heavily-promoted (within the umpteen-million-strong online gaming community, at least), shamelessly "hardcore" and stunningly pretty first person shooter.

For the same reasons, it's a much safer prospect than either MGS4 (an intellectually dense experience renowned for its tendency to divide opinion), Shenmue (caught between the adventure, fighting and sandbox genres and hence harder for consumers to quantify) or for that matter more recent well-known "flops" like LittleBigPlanet (too cute for the hardcore, too complex for the casual, and thwarted by its home system's decidedly non-mainstream price tag). You're right, it probably won't out-sell CoD4 as it doesn't have the latter's sheer ubiquity, but I'd put it down for a few million unit sales at least in the next six months. Again, we'll see :)

I'm not sure if any of you guys read Rob Fahey's GamesIndustry.biz editorials, but they're some of the best I've ever come across - here's his take on the PS3 in 2009:

GI.biz have a penchant for usually being right on the money. They're my first daily regular news checkup.

So..... MGS4 has solid slightly worse than MGS2 in the same timeframe..... but better than Snake Eater..... and it means what?

I get the argument you're making Dan... but it's not like PS2's biggest games were doing the kind of numbers that 360 games have been doing on a regular basis. Sure the GTA and Gran Turismo games, but not much else.

PS3 certainly isn't seeing the growth rate that PS2 did, but by this point Sony had also dropped PS2's price to $199 (a 33% cut). PS3 is still too expensive to be considered mass market friendly, and it's certainly nowhere near 'impulse buy' territory. Sony need to slash the price as soon as possible really but i don't think they're quite out of the picture just yet.

I would've bought MGS4 if I had a PS3, and I guess there'll be a few more like me.  Unfortunately I just don't value the PS3 at the prices they are currently going for in the UK.

As soon as the prices get cut - a PS3 and MGS4 will be sitting under my TV.   Maybe even Killzone 2 but I'm still not so excited about that game even after seeing the gamersyde vids.  Pretty but still feels generic.

FACT:

You're wrong.

People aren't idiots, if a game is the best it will sell. 

FACT:

You're wrong.

Look at how many Wii games have sold(Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit). People, indeed, are idiots.

FACT:
90% of gamers are hardcore nubs

FACT:
the new guy cuts his own hair

locopuyo


FACT:
90% of gamers are hardcore nubs

FACT:
the new guy cuts his own hair

QUESTION:
Who is the new guy? I wasnt aware we had one, I thought I was doing a tremendous job of scaring them off

The fact is that Sony has pretty much had a challenge free 2 console cycle, and have completely let themself go so to speak. You see it in a lot of sports where the reigning champ can only reign so long before finally succombing to what I label it as boredom and laziness, because they feel invincible.

Sony have to get back to basics, and get back to the Playstation Brand everyone knew and love with 1 and 2. I know there are lot of people out there who believe that the way to go with consoles is more towards the multimedia component and other "non-essential" accessories :), but I for one would like to see not only Sony but all console makers and devs get back to concentrating a little bit more on the games and the people buying those games.

Playstation brand will never catch up to where it was with 1 and 2.  The two things that placed Sony at the top are two things they will never get back.  One they never had proper competition, now they do.  Yeah we all loved Nintendo but they made a few stupid design choices with hardware that held them back, such as no disc drive.  Second, they had tons of underhanded exclusivity deals they made in the PS1 era that carried over to the PS2 era.  Publishers learned their lesson after last gen. 

Sony was way too cocky with this gen.  They took two expensive risks with CELL and BD.  BD was a good idea, CELL was not.  CELL is the reason their memory is split and that's the reason why the 360 typically has better graphics, especially for multiplatform games.  I bet they could have cut costs by 100$ if they used the same CPU and memory configuration as the 360.  Which also would have made development as easy as the 360, maybe even easier since they have a traditional GPU.  Highnsight is 20/20, if they knew that MS would have had such a good design I'm sure they would have ditched CELL and put in 512MB dedicated Vram on top of 256MB CPU ram for even less money.  If they did that Sony would have slaughtered MS. 

I hope Sony learns it's lesson, you can't be on top if your hardware is too difficult to develope on.  Console makers need to learn to use standardized PC components.  MS knows this, Nintendo might know this.  Sony has it's head up it's ass.

What I don't like about this is the NEXT gen, sony will probably not make the high price tag mistake again, which would make PS4 sell very well in Japan & Europe, but in he US microsoft is already too dominant, so the markets are going to be divided for that console.

FACT:
the new guy cuts his own hair

That's the most illusive fucking meme I've ever come across.

What's the source? You're driving me nuts Loco.

Ps4 will lower powered, it will be cheaper, it will offer bluray and an expanded psn service but not offer what tech is typicaly ready for access, aka the ps3/360 of today, it will be more Wii like, its the only busniess decision to make and its the only decision sony has to make, they have to get out of this gen as soon as then can, There is no Profit to be made with such a good console as PS3.

They have to bring next gen to the next level, or so to speak, Sony will bring the next gen console first,they need to bring back the playataion brand. or at least to establish what it once was.

Ps4 will lower powered, it will be cheaper, it will offer bluray and an expanded psn service but not offer what tech is typicaly ready for access, aka the ps3/360 of today, it will be more Wii like, its the only business decision to make and its the only decision sony has to make, they have to get out of this gen as soon as then can, There is no Profit to be made with such a good console as PS3.

I disagree with Sony needing to move into the next gen faster.
Sony is going to want to prolong this gen as long as possible.  The PS3 has been cost reduced quite a bit, they reduced the deficit of each console sale to about 50$.  By the end of 2009 they should break even with hardware, assuming they don't have a price drop.  Which I expect they will though.  PS3 is a long term strategy.  I expect the PS3 to be like the PS2, it will be on shelves forever. 

Personally if they drop the machine to 300$ I would recommend it to anyone even if they don't game.  It's a great hub for your home theater.  It's not like past consoles where once the generation is over the hardware is useless.  Because the machine is built so well and has so many features I'll never throw it away.  It is my only BD player at the moment and as long as it still works it will remain a great device.  The fact that it can play a few amazing games is icing on an already very sweet cake.  I can't believe some people in Kikizo still don't have one.  Do yourselves a favor.  Go out a buy and PS3.  If you don't have a HD screen, get one of those to.  Modernize mother fuckers. 

My prediction:
When they release the PS4 they will likely phase out the PS2 and the PS3 will be priced around the 249$ mark.  I expect games to continue to be released for the PS3 long after Wii and the 360 is pulled off the shelves.  The same way that games are still being released for the PS2 today.