As we all know, Gotham 3 for the Xbox360 runs at 30fps. But that' s not all. Apparently the game is only rendered at a resolution of 1024x600 and then it is scaled up to 720p internally. Those of you with dev systems or whatnot that can do screen grabs will be able to see this. Grab a screen of the gameplay. 1024x600. Now grab a screen of a menu. 1280x720. It seems that Microsoft has given Bizzare the go-ahead to make a game not true HD, despite the fact they they claim 720p is a MINIMUM spec.

I can' t link to a source, but here is a screen grab at the resolution the GPU renders the game at before internal scaling.



So the possibilities are this:

-The Xbox360 is far weaker than previously realized.
-Bizarre Creations sucks ass at programming for the Xbox360
-This is all a hoax just to piss off Rampage999

If you simply want superb graphics then Bizarre Creations will do.

If you want superb graphics at 60 frames per second then Namco is your company as 60 frames per second seems to either be a foreign language to Bizarre Creations OR their programmers just can' t hack it at that level

Thus far this is a rumor. Granted Bizzare has not come out and denied the rumor, but it' s still unverified.

Either way, as others have pointed out to me already, even if it is rendered at 1024x600, the 360 can upscale to 720p with only 33% pixel loss.

Or in other words..... unless you have REALLY REALLY REALLY good eyes you' re most likely not going to be able to tell a difference between true 720p and 1024x600 upscaled to 720p.

I' m pretty sure Microsoft has told Bizarre not to talk about stuff like that. They completely ignore the issue even on their own forums, while they readily run around and answer other threads on different subjects. Don' t get me wrong, the graphics are still good, but it' s not true 720p. I honestly don' t see why the Xbox360 couldn' t do the true 1280x720 for this game, especially at 30fps.

Honestely, Joe I think that the 360 can do 720p and higher at HD level, but I think the main reason for them not running HD (if it' s true) it' s because the game has been rushed. U might say that they have had time since the release of PGR2 to make the game, but they didn' t get the final dev kits up until not long ago, and since the way they described it, it seems that they have spent a lot of time with the maps and car detail, they just haven' t had time to do it. They do have 80000 polygons per car on average, some even more, so this means they probabily, if had more time, could run true HD. U all know sometimes games r rushed, especially if they r 1st party games aiming for the launch of a console. From what I' ve seen on the videos, I can say the game still looks pretty good, we' ll see when it actually comes out.

Your post makes my head spin with it' s use of single letters in lieu of actual words, but I do agree with your point. Personally I think the Xbox360 is being rushed to market. Games are not as good as they can be as a result. But on the good side, I guess this will be the worst batch of Xbox360 games ever. Can' t get any worse! And looking at the lackluster Xbox360 launch lineup, anyone can see that things can only get better.

ofc the xbox360 is rushed.
xbox has only been out 3 years,and btw ofc all games are rushed too.
All great games for 360 comes out mid/late 2006 when ps3 is out.

The launch line up is good for FPS fans, but beyond that...Morrowind would have helped a lot...I was very disappointed it got pushed back...

i buy anyway ha ha lol giggy giggy

The Full power of 360 is not being used, games and hardware where rushed and thats why the games dont go true Hd. Dont worry i bet the 360 games will get much better looking, after all, just look at any launch consoles games and they are not graphicaly superior to any games made after it. It happens with all consoles. Still looks good though.

ORIGINAL: Joe Redifer


-This is all a hoax just to piss off Rampage999

Joe, I only used 3-5, I think, short forms of words. I just do it cuz I' m used to msn messenger. Maybe ur right, maybe I should write properly.

Quezcatol, I don' t know if you meant it as a joke, but anyways: we won' t see great games for 360 by mid 2006, it' s still too early. Some really good games will come out by then, in my opinion, but not great.

I do agree with the fact that the 360 itself has been rushed and I don' t like it one bit, but I think it is so due to the fact that MS didn' t want to put out the next Xbox after Sony put out their PS3. I think they didn' t want to let Sony get a head start since Sony is #1 with their ps2 so far. Maybe MS played their cards right, maybe they didn' t, who knows. All I know is that we will see good games for the 360, we will see high quality graphics, bigger library and more quality, but how the 360 will do compared to the other two consoles, only time will tell. Maybe we will see an increase in numbers of 360 owners for the time being, but I' m wondering how the console will do in 3 or 4 years, that' s when we will see if MS did the right thing by rushing and making a lesser capable product than they would have if they would' ve waited maybe a year longer and put out a better product (360).

I' m still gonna buy PGR3, even if it' s not in true HD.

Its hard to say when really great games come out for the xbox 360, and for sure it has littlle to do with how they utilize the hardware, ofcourse thats a fact as well, but making a story, world and character that captivates the player is a much bigger factor.

We might be surprised suddenly

Sounds like M$ is having ' premature release' issues...

Maybe it would have been more wise to get everything right, then release the 360 properly.

Nah I think now is the best time for it strategy wise. You launch now and you get tons of people who buy it right away, then you can build up for the big christmas sales and you have a huge start. I also think people tend to exaggurate about the launch being a letdown. There still are plenty of great games coming out at launch. When you compare how many games are coming out at launch for xbox 360 to previous consoles it is quite a few more.

I' m not sure any of you really know what you are talking about. You' re all saying " great games are coming out later" as if any game' s greatness is judged by how many pixels of resolution there is. Ironically, though Joe is denigrating the graphics capability of PGR3, this is undoubtedly considered a flagship game by Microsoft to promote the sales of the X360. Having gotten the console off the ground, very few developers will even bother to go as far as Bizarre have, and certainly none of them will go to the extent of creating realistic looking/moving human characters. It costs too much to do it for no measurable return on the profit margin. Don' t believe me? How did GTA: SA sell then?

One of the best quality graphics in any game I bought of the current generation was Project Zero, which was, in fact, the first game I bought for my new PS2, what was it, 2000? They hand-created the characters for that, and what did it get them? No, practically all games afterwards came with the cookie-cutter characters used by The Matrix etc. Only Prince of Persia really pushed the graphics/animation boundary in later years.

The better graphic quality games do not appear later in the console' s life cycle. In point of fact, the opposite may be true. Games that launched the Dreamcast looked better than the majority of PS2 games, and all the XBox did was add some fuzziness and flashy lighting effects.

The better graphic quality games do not appear later in the console' s life cycle. In point of fact, the opposite may be true.

are u sure you have been in gaming for a long time ??
let me give u some exemples that will prove that what u said is almost false (cus there are always exceptions

N64: launch and around it : mario 64, golden eye , mario kart, turok 1
graphicaly there is huge gap one you compare them to bonjoo and tooie, perfect dark, turok 2, diddy kong racing, zelda ocarina of time...

PS2: ridge racer, tekken, street fighter ex, resident evil code veronica, shadow heart ...
can' t compare those to, gran turismo 4, god of war, tekken 5, resident 4, final fantasy x and 12, and even shadow heart 2...

xbox= halo graphicaly is not halo 2 and it' s not reddick nor doom, far cry, half life 2 those games appeared years later after launch
between splinter cell 1 and the chaos theory , there is a huge difference

i can' t stop giving exemples for all consoles, developers get used to the console years after its launch and only few developers are able to reach the ceiling from the very begining...

si if history is repeated, we are for a super ride on this next gen since those launch titles are only a entré of what will come next

I' m so happy, **Tear

The better graphic quality games do not appear later in the console' s life cycle. In point of fact, the opposite may be true.

I agree with Absoluteflame or whatever his name is. A really good example is the Saturn, Daytona USA which was a launch game and ran at 20 frames per second and had pop-up galore. A year or two later they came out with Daytona Champion Circuit Edition which ran at 30 frames per second and had MUCH less pop up. Even Sega Rally which wasn' t even a year after the original Daytona looked MUCH better and ran much faster. And Virtua Fighter ran in low resolution, but Virtua Fighter 2 which came out less than a year later ran in 4x the resolution of the original, had progressive scan support (Hi-vision), ran at 60 frames per second, had more polygons and much less break-up.

Another good example is Ridge Racer 1 for the original Playstation, which was a launch game. When Ridge Racer Type 4 came out, Ridge Racer 1 was included with the game. Except that this Ridge Racer 1 ran at 4x the resolution and twice the original framerate on the same exact system! The difference was staggering. The rest of the game code was the same, only the graphics improved.

And then there is Sega Rally 2 on the Dreamcast, compared to Daytona USA towards the end of its life. Another staggering difference.

Halo 1 and 2 is another good example since Halo 1 didn' t even run in widescreen!

And let' s not even start with Gran Turismo 3 and 4. Part 3 ran in widescreen and 480i only. Part 4 runs in widescreen and 480p (progressive scan) and even full blown 1080i HDTV! Yeah.

As programmers learn the ins and outs of a particular system, they get better and so do the results. The graphics will improve on the Xbox360. Definitely.

..... around that time, when the system' s capabilities actually begin to be tested, 3 - 4 years from now, Microsoft will release xbox3......

..non?...