I dont really have much to throw in here, as its mostly been said, but I would like the time to apologize to SpaceJase for my childish responses in other threads. Good arguement for the Wii, even if I more side with Majiks opinion

Wow! Thanks dude. I really respect peole who are prepared to do that.

It take balls to apologise (esp. on a web forum!). The mark of a real man. Good fella!

I know a lot of folk will side with magik/nitro and that' s fine by me. Just putting my point of view accross.

*edit* " putting my point of view accross" - been hanging out with too many golf lovers.

again ps2 the weakest of the 3 smashed the 2 graphically more powerful consoles in xbox1 & GC

I might just be shooting the moon here, but in thought the GC was graphically and powerfully the weakest console.

Graphics wise the GC was greater than PS2 but less than Xbox. Definitely not the weakest in terms of graphics but probably the weakest games.

PS2 couldn' t even beat the DC' s graphics when it first came out.

ORIGINAL: SpaceJase

Wow! Thanks dude. I really respect peole who are prepared to do that.

It take balls to apologise (esp. on a web forum!). The mark of a real man. Good fella!

I think you' ll find that this forum is unlike any other and generally if somebody steps out of line they' ll quickly apologize.

I also think that everybody would agree when i say that you are by far the best new poster we' ve had in a long time :)

I know a lot of folk will side with magik/nitro and that' s fine by me. Just putting my point of view accross.

*edit* " putting my point of view accross" - been hanging out with too many golf lovers.

Hahaha, ...well this is actually a duscussion i' m growing very weary of. It honestly could go either way and there are valid arguments for both. I' m going to do what i said i would initially and wait until the demand eases out to see what kind of legs Wii has and whether it gets the software to support it.

I also think that everybody would agree when i say that you are by far the best new poster we' ve had in a long time :)

I' m blushing at that one. I' ve always kept an eye on these forums because Gamerweb was my first real experience of a web forum (I still remember Lotusson from there but he probably can' t remember me). The community here is 100x better than it was when I first signed up.

I don' t think we disagree too much about the Wii. It' s true that the PS2 ports suck ass, but it could easily go down the way of the DS (my best guess) or the GC (your best guess?). Only time will tell on that one.

Hahaha, ...well this is actually a duscussion i' m growing very weary of. It honestly could go either way and there are valid arguments for both.

Yeah, it' s a bit tedious. I' d like to concentrate more on games that I' m excited about than defending/bashing various consoles.

I don' t think Wii will limp along like Gamecube did, ...far from it. It' s just that i don' t believe hardcore and non-gamers will outweigh the hardcore and casual gamers that will buy 360 and PS3.

PS2 was made as successful as it was by games like Pro Evolution, Madden, GTA and Need For Speed. Hell, all three GTA3 games (3, Vice City and San Andreas) are in the top 10 all time software sales chart along with Super Mario 64 and GBA Pokemon games. The release of Vice City saw PS2 sales spike insanely. In North America it sold nearly 3.5 million copies in 4 weeks, and that' s the kind of game Nintendo doesn' t get. The only games that traditionally sell in really high numbers on Nintendo consoles are Nintendo games.

So without MAJOR 3rd party support, which Wii still doesn' t have, how could it keep momentum after demand has been met? It will slow down drastically and then spike again when Nintendo' s games are released. What i' m waiting for is 3rd party games from the biggest and best studios that aren' t ports, and that sell millions.

I love my Gamecube. I think that some of the best games of the previous generation were Gamecube exclusives, ...and i want to see Nintendo succeed, but i think they' re making and have already made some potentially dangerous decisions and i think those decisions will come back to bite them on the ass later down the line.

Doesn' t Nintendo have a long history (i.e. not just GameCube) of producing a good product and then generally only having 1st party software?

I don' t think Wii will limp along like Gamecube did, ...far from it. It' s just that i don' t believe hardcore and non-gamers will outweigh the hardcore and casual gamers that will buy 360 and PS3.

The 360 and PS3 is not the domain of casual gamers. If you care enough about technology/games to buy an HDTV then you' re already in the ' Hardcore' bracket. Casual gamers represent the majority who still own SDTVs or if they do own HDTVs then they know little about screen resolutions.

It' s true that Nintendo sell best on their own consoles, but it' s a poor argument for not supporting the platform. If the game is good enough then it will sell - 3rd parties should have more self belief than to be intimidated by Nintendo, they aren' t gods and the market that the Wii is selling to doesn' t care who made the game, just that it' s fun.

So without MAJOR 3rd party support, which Wii still doesn' t have, how could it keep momentum after demand has been met? It will slow down drastically and then spike again when Nintendo' s games are released. What i' m waiting for is 3rd party games from the biggest and best studios that aren' t ports, and that sell millions.

I' ve watched the N64 and GC and I just feel that it' s different this time. Some would argue that EA killed the DC by refusing to support it but they' ve already had a good few games out for the Wii.

The release list looks patchy for the Wii over the next few months but casual gamers won' t buy it because of previews they read on IGN. They' ll buy it because they had a blast getting their arse kicked by on Wii sports golf last night.

I had my brother and his pal around last night. We were playing Wii Sports golf ' till 3 in the morning. My brothers pal kept on saying ' I' m getting one of these' . I told him that they where hard to come by but he was having none of it.

It' s only anecdotal evidence but I' ve never owned a console that' s had that impact on non-gamers. Usually I' m pointing out amazing graphics only to be confronted by blank stares (don' t tell me you' ve never had that happen).

ORIGINAL: SpaceJase

I don' t think Wii will limp along like Gamecube did, ...far from it. It' s just that i don' t believe hardcore and non-gamers will outweigh the hardcore and casual gamers that will buy 360 and PS3.

The 360 and PS3 is not the domain of casual gamers. If you care enough about technology/games to buy an HDTV then you' re already in the ' Hardcore' bracket. Casual gamers represent the majority who still own SDTVs or if they do own HDTVs then they know little about screen resolutions.

That would have made sense a year ago, but HDTV prices have dropped sharply ad you can pick up a 720p LCD now for the same price as a non-HD flat panel 12 months ago. But even causal gamers that don' t have HDTV' s will be drawn towards PS3 and 360 because of the games.

I mean seriously, who would want Madden or Need for Speed on Wii over the 360 or PS3 version?

Those are the game that casual gamers buy.

It' s true that Nintendo sell best on their own consoles, but it' s a poor argument for not supporting the platform. If the game is good enough then it will sell - 3rd parties should have more self belief than to be intimidated by Nintendo, they aren' t gods and the market that the Wii is selling to doesn' t care who made the game, just that it' s fun.

3rd parties aren' t intimidated, ...it just that traditionally 3rd party software hasn' t been anywhere near as successful as 1st party on Nintendo platforms, ...so why bother spending the money it would cost to develop from the ground up when you can just port and cash in on aready built games!? Which is why Wii has been receiving PS2 ports.

My point was to try and ' debunk' the myth that console with the best graphics will always win, which if the theory was correct would mean that the ps3 would win (followed closely by the 360) and the Wii would be a distant third. As i have shown results in previous generations and even current numbers suggest that this common held belief has no factual basis. There is no correlation between graphics and market share. Had everyone said that the Wii would fail because of lack of thirdparty support then i would wholeheartedly agree (although i would argue that support for Wii is coming)

Thirdparty support is the key to success, so people really need to stop with the Wii will fail because of its limited graphics. The support so far is admittedly lackluster but that can change.

Please note that in no way do these trends i have been commenting on mean that the Wii wins by default (inferior console wins every generation trend). Though the Wii early success does show again this trend does seem to hold true i hold no assumption that its success is guaranteed. Like everyone knows there' s still a long way to go yet.

I mean seriously, who would want Madden or Need for Speed on Wii over the 360 or PS3 version?

I' m not interested in American Football or NFS but if Forza 2 (which I can' t wait for) where to come out on the Wii I wouldn' t be in the slightest bit interested. There are some games that are cool because of awesome physics and graphics. There are others that don' t need that and are just fun anyway. I have no conflict about that.

Where are you from BTW? HDTVs are still well in the minority in the UK.

I had my brother and his pal around last night. We were playing Wii Sports golf ' till 3 in the morning. My brothers pal kept on saying ' I' m getting one of these' . I told him that they where hard to come by but he was having none of it.

It' s only anecdotal evidence but I' ve never owned a console that' s had that impact on non-gamers. Usually I' m pointing out amazing graphics only to be confronted by blank stares (don' t tell me you' ve never had that happen).

That I agree with you on. I didn' t buy into all the " new gamer" craze untill my my great-aunt (who still can' t figure how they get the songs onto CD' s) got one. Called me up just to let me know that she' d gotten one of those Weeees (the inflection she uses is nothing short of hilarious) and didn' t know how to set it up. I hung up the phone after half an hour of frustrating direction giving, & she called me back later that afternoon to tell me that she' d been doing nothing but bowling in her living room with my uncle. Rather funny. I wanted to tell her there wouldn' t be much else to play, but I figured that was the only thing she' d be playing anyways.

It did show me that every once-and-a-while, the best formed debate doesn' t matter as long as they' re enjoying themselves.

Meh, just read through the last 3 pages & realized that this inadvertently turned into a Wii sales thread.