^ No one has played it, it ain' t even out yet.

My point in this post has been that IGN is biased towards Madden and that the tone of the review is trying to sell, not give an opinion of the game. In the beginning of this thread, I said that Madden will probably be great, but I feel that ESPN' s $20 price tag makes it a better buy than a $50 Madden that will marginally better or equal.

Is it the reviewer' s and the website' s perogative? - Yes.
Do I think that that is responsible journalism? - No.
Have I played the game? - No.
Have I played every other Madden and know that they change one thing every year and update the stats? - Yes.

Have I played every other Madden and know that they change one thing every year and update the stats? - Yes.

This, right here, proves you' re not just not very good at analysis. Do you honestly think that Madden 2004 changed " one thing" over 2003? I seriously doubt you even played it. Besides the Playmaker on both offense and defense, which essentially changes the very foundation of the game and how it' s played, there were plenty of added animations, a greatly enhanced draft/off-season (drills, recruiting, coaching, etc.), and the physics engine received yet another overhaul. If you couldn' t notice, the " floaty" aspect of the players in Madden from 2001-2003 versions was pretty evident. In 2004, it disappeared to be replaced by more grounded and realistic movements amongst the players.

For someone who claims to know everything about all Maddens, you seem to miss an AWFUL lot.

Maybe I was exaggerating when I say that they add one thing, but the essence of what I said still holds true.

The one major addition last year was Playmaker, new animations and an updated physics engine don' t count to me as additions. If you see that your engine is flawed, you are supposed to fix it.

My point is that the game is basically the same game year after year with a few upgrades.

And you are avoiding my point. I was saying that the tone of the IGN ads and reviews are pushing one game over another and not giving an unbiased review of another.

How much I play Madden is a moot point. I play my friend a couple of times whenever he gets the new one and then I talk him back into playing ESPN. I haven' t owned one since like 98 or 99.

Also, this the whole thing that I don' t understand about this thread.

U start by saying that Madden got a great review, " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" .

Then you go after people who agreed with your point of view and expanded upon it. I just want to know for future posts. I will just disagree with you and then halfway in the thread, you will start to agree with me.

You misinterpreted my statement. I didn' t say " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" because I believe IGN to be biased. I said that because Madden has been stellar each and every year since 2001.

The words in the reviews themselves are entirely 100% unbiased. Opinion is expressed, explaining that the critic believes Madden is slightly better, but the emphasis on " slightly" is found in the numerous praises that ESPN receives within the Madden review. Just read the final paragraph.

I' ll say it again- you like ESPN. Despite the fact that Madden isn' t out yet, you have it in your head that it can' t possibly be better than ESPN. Just admit it. And lastly, you ALSO have it in your head that the opinions found in the Madden review somehow diminish the quality of ESPN, when in fact, they do just the opposite.

As for advertisements...which game do you think has more PR behind it? Hmm? Do you really think the ad campaign for ESPN is a quarter what Madden' s is in terms of visible publicity? It has nothing to do with IGN; it has everything to do with business. EA is willing to pay a LOT of money for those ad spots, my friend. IGN is a business, and likes to make money. It' s not " bias." If you think it is, then I suppose you think we at Kikizo were biased towards Ninja Gaiden because we had that pop-up before, right?

I agree to disagree because this is tired.

IGN praised ESPN (we both agree), but you can praise something and diminish it at the same time. I feel like they did that at the end of the Madden review (you disagree).

You will never think so and I won' t change my mind. Please stop writing.

Whatever. The truth is obvious.

Whatever. The truth is obvious.

Actually the X-Files quote is: " THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE ;)

^ The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

This is like the most biased fanboy face off thread I have ever read. I can remember quite clearly from the Gamerweb days, Fathoms is the biggest Madden fanboy ever. He will refuse to ever accept that the ESPN title could ever be better than a madden game. Especially if it has Sega on the box ;) The very fact that he started this thread the way he did, should make that quite clear anyway. Its people like Fathoms that stop the ESPN games being the success they should be. I mean, why did Fathoms not post a review from a site that says the ESPN title is better and state " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" ? It would be easy enough to find one. Of course he isn' t going to though. He always fights Maddens corner. As soon as I saw this thread I just had a flashback to the Gamerweb flame wars of old. They aren' t open to change, stick with the series they know and assume it will be better. Generally most magazines/sites I have read over the years say the ESPN/NFL*K series is better than the Madden equivalent titles, but never got the sales to match.

As for Beef Shala, your exactly the same. Your blatantly a huge ESPN fanboy who refuses to accept that perhaps the Madden title this year may be a superior product. You haven' t played it, so you have no idea. Perhaps the IGN guy is just stating his opinion. Lets face it, a review IS THERE to influence your purchasing decision. He is telling you what he suggests. You can' t slate the reviewer for that. Which of the two is better? Thats the question everyone wants to know and is the reason most are probably reading the review. You can' t abuse him for answering with his opinion on it.

As for me, I don' t care. Being from the UK, American Football is about as popular as Sumo Wrestling. i.e. NOT AT ALL. I would rather watch paint dry than an NFL game. Football (as in soccer) is the sport to watch over here and personally I think the FIFA Soccer games from EA suck. The last one I bought was FIFA 2004 and its a horrendous title. Slow, full of bugs, crap graphics, terrible online play (which is plagued with connection issues) etc etc. I generally agree that EA Sports updates usually change the minimum, but in this debate over American Fottyball games, who knows?

Nesflash Pierre:

Point #1: GW was overrun with massive fanboys from front to rear. The fact that you' d quote anyone in there is meaningless.

Point #2: I never, not once, made one mention about either game. Not one. Shala seemed hell-bent on saying the IGN reviewer was biased, when in fact, he' d never even touched Madden. I never made an assumption one way or the other.

Point #3: I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe. I do not own Madden. I figured I' d go for a change this year, and my roommate already got Madden. I haven' t played either long enough to tell, but I find them both to be highly impressive football simulations.

You may want to abandon your idiotic beliefs formulated from GW. The fanboys from there are still rampant fanboys, and I' ve never cared one way or the other. Not ever. I could point to my collection again, but facts are always tougher to face than rumor...especially when it proves you wrong. Oh, how tragic.

Ooooohhhh, touchy. Look Fathoms, I wasn' t looking for a personal assualt on me. I mean, " I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe" . I would have expected more from you. Especially since you always take the moral high ground and are a representative of this site in some way. Sure I used the term fanboy, that was my mistake. I was still pretty drunk when I made the post though. All I meant by that was that you have always been a huge Madden fan who genrally, in the past, stood up for it above the ESPN series. Its not exactly super critical. I also never took either your side or Beef' s side. I stayed neutral. Or at least I think I did?

Your right about GW being full of fanboys but I never quoted anyone from there. I was only referring to Gamerweb as I know you (at least in online terms) from there more than from Kikizo.

My " idiotic beliefs" . Again, I expected a little more restraint from yourself than to resort tho this, but I' ll live. I still stand by them. And by that I mean, people' s general reluctance to deviate into an unknown gaming series. If you have ESPN 2K5 then I stand corrected on that point, but I still feel the very tone of the initial post for this thread was that of blatant support for Madden over all others.

Also, i have looked at your collection. It does nothing to convince me of anything related to this thread what-so-ever.

Oh, and the little comment about not liking the ESPN titles because of the Sega badge. That was just a joke as denoted by the winking face. I wasn' t looking to cause offense.

Regards,
Pierre

Ooooohhhh, touchy. Look Fathoms, I wasn' t looking for a personal assualt on me. I mean, " I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe" . I would have expected more from you. Especially since you always take the moral high ground and are a representative of this site in some way. Sure I used the term fanboy, that was my mistake. I was still pretty drunk when I made the post though. All I meant by that was that you have always been a huge Madden fan who genrally, in the past, stood up for it above the ESPN series. Its not exactly super critical. I also never took either your side or Beef' s side. I stayed neutral. Or at least I think I did?

You said, " fathoms is the biggest Madden fanboy ever." That' s BS, and is, in and of itself, a personal assault. I have never stood up for Madden over anything, really, I simply stood up for Madden against the people who said it " sucked." The only time I ever stood up for it over another series was last year' s ESPN, but that' s about it. I actually thought the GameDay series was better between the years ' 96 and ' 99. Much better. And Sega' s NFL 2k and NFL 2k1 was easily comparable to Madden 2001 and 2002. They were so close, in fact, that it was more a matter of personal preference.

Your right about GW being full of fanboys but I never quoted anyone from there. I was only referring to Gamerweb as I know you (at least in online terms) from there more than from Kikizo.

Just don' t even bring GW into it. That place was a horror show of fanboys, and I' m VERY thankful that I was in the minority.

My " idiotic beliefs" . Again, I expected a little more restraint from yourself than to resort tho this, but I' ll live. I still stand by them. And by that I mean, people' s general reluctance to deviate into an unknown gaming series. If you have ESPN 2K5 then I stand corrected on that point, but I still feel the very tone of the initial post for this thread was that of blatant support for Madden over all others.

The only " reluctance" I' ve ever had was towards games I don' t think have promise. If you, or anyone else, ever thinks that a franchise name will sway me one way or the other, you' re insane. The " tone" of this thread was to post IGN' s review, and say that it' s " not surprising" because Madden generally receives those kinds of scores. It' s not support and it' s not bashing...it' s just POSTING THE REVIEW.

Also, i have looked at your collection. It does nothing to convince me of anything related to this thread what-so-ever.

I wasn' t referring to this thread in particular. The point is that every time the " fanboy" stigma comes up, I point to the collection because it' s generally, almost 100% of the time, FAR more diverse than the one who' s doing the accusing.

Oh, and the little comment about not liking the ESPN titles because of the Sega badge. That was just a joke as denoted by the winking face. I wasn' t looking to cause offense.

I didn' t even see that in the first place, so it doesn' t matter.

I think it seems to be the use of the word " fanboy" which seems to have been the cause of the problems here. fair enough, thats my fault. I guess I should just have said " fathoms is the biggest Madden fan ever"

As for the " just posting a review" point. Well, perhaps, buts lets face it, nobody posts such a review unless they are gathering support for the game or really trying to slate it. The two extremes. Most people post reviews which coincide with their opinion on the title in question. As someone who can' t stand the much loved Operation Flashpoint game for example, I would never post one of the many reviews which go on about how good it is. Maybe you don' t agree with me, but do you at least see where I am coming from?

I get it, but I' m not even the " biggest Madden fan ever."

And I understand what your assumption was for the posting of this review, but in truth, I posted it simply because it was the first Madden 2005 review I could find online. That' s all. If it was GameSpot' s and it was a 2.7, I still would' ve posted it.

And if you hadn' t guessed, I can' t stand being labeled with that retarded term, especially because it' s based around platform bias, which I' ve NEVER had...at least, not since I said the Atari 2600 was " the best thing ever." I believe I was 5 years old at the time.

I purchased ESPN NFL 2005, not for the price point, but due to the gameplay.

A co-worker, who loves Madden (and has for many years), tells me that the graphics are still not up to par with ESPN and the voice discussions seem as though John Madden and Al Michaels aren' t even in the same room.

He went on to say that, though the franchise updates and story mode were positive points, he was disappointed overall in this version of Madden. This is similar to the reviews I have been reading...

EA just needs to get off their butts and actually improve the whole game at one time, not just one little thing here or there.

I have noticed that more and more gamers are switching to ESPN NFL Football.

Madden is good, but maybe it' s time to retire this franchise.

And maybe start a new franchise...