Madden 2005: IGN Review

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/536/536289p1.aspx

I suppose I shouldn' t be surprised...

Kikizo Staff Writer

Of course you shouldn' t be surprised. IGN says that every EA sports game is the next coming of the Messiah. I am sure that Madden is a great game this year, but to rate it better than ESPN with a $20 price tag and online leagues out of the box is just pure BS.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

I haven' t played either, yet.

But IGN aren' t the only ones...EGM gave ESPN an 8.88 overall, and Madden just got a 9.16.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Hey, what are you going to down?

I love ESPN and play it to death. I think that it will always have to play second fidel because the world is trained to love Madden. Do people actually play it, or do they just assume that it is better? When you have a game that you can just run a fly route or all streaks and complete 80% of your passes, is this really the best football game out there? Hell no.

Like the PlayStation versus every other system debate. Every other console is better from top to bottom and people will sweat on their mother that the PS# is better.

Why bother? I feel like I am in an exclusive club void of Madden sycophants. I' ll play with the people who know how good the game is and that' s that.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

Like the PlayStation versus every other system debate. Every other console is better from top to bottom and people will sweat on their mother that the PS# is better.

Thanks for the " factual" update.

P.S. I don' t know what I' ll get. I may get neither; I' m pretty swamped right now.

Kikizo Staff Writer

All the magazines lately that I' ve read about both games had ESPN chose over Madden. I don' t read EGM anymore because it' s went downhill quick from a couple of years ago. I' m getting both of course. Which one do I think is best...ESPN...why?

Price is in the consideration because I' m having to scrounge for money to buy Madden. Defensive controls is another, as ESPN offers about 12 more things that you can do with your defense than Madden. Offensively though Madden has ESPN as it has more options for that.

There' s not a perfect football game out there for me. I like ESPN because I can actually have something of an air attack, and I like Madden because running the ball is great on that game.

Honestly, I suggest at least one. They are both good football games and it really comes down to what style of play you like the most. I prefer ESPN' s approach to the game; it is really realistic and I find it to be more fun than the Madden series.

But I would say, go to Blockbuster, spend $10 and rent both. Play them and see which one you' ll like the most.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

I really think IGN are braindead now. How can Madden be a better game when ESPN 2K5 is of equal, if not better, in gameplay and graphics? And you definately have to give 2K5 the presentation, as it looks like a real ESPN broadcast. And at the $20 mark I can gurantee which is a better value. So, IGN and GameSpy, you want to be taken seriously? Get your noses out of EA Sports' @$$.

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

" In one year, EA Sports has done more to right the wrongs of Madden' s gameplay past than in any time in the illustrious series' history. Play Madden NFL 2005 once, and you might notice the big hits and how aware all of the defenders are on the gridiron. Play it five times and you' ll realize how defensive hot routes completely even out the field and that for the first time, maybe in any football game, it' s not just fun, it' s actually meaningful to D-up. Play the game 20 times and you really start to appreciate the brilliance behind the All-Madden engine. 2005' s AI is by far the slickest, smartest AI of any football game ever put to polygons, period, and the main reason why Madden is once again the single most dominant force in sports video games. The game might lack the presentation, the visual eye candy of ESPN 2K5, but more than makes up for it in the one area that counts the most, the reason you buy a game... gameplay.

This season, ESPN might have plenty of sizzle, but Madden is still the steak."

That' s a pretty bold statement, and they get bolder as the review goes on. I wouldn' t chalk it up to " EA fanboyism" just yet. Let' s wait for a few more reviews.

Kikizo Staff Writer

^ I thought that the media was supposed to try to be unbiased. That article seems to say:

" ESPN held you over for 2 weeks, but trade that crap in and get some Madden" .

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

I kinda like madden back in the good ol' snes and genesis days, and then 2001 was good too. But, I can' t play it anymore. I play my friends, and it ends up being a pick-your-play simulation. My friends let the computer assistance catch the ball for them, amongst other things like using the Madden play calling feature. So, where is the skill?

I love playing NHL and Fifa on multitap, but once madden gets started I' m off to wendys. This opinion comes from a guy who' s only played a couple of seasons from early madden, but I don' t think single player franchises would help me like this generic game any more.

^ I thought that the media was supposed to try to be unbiased. That article seems to say:

" ESPN held you over for 2 weeks, but trade that crap in and get some Madden" .

Whether it' s true or not, exactly why are they not allowed to say that? And actually, after re-reading, the reviewer continuously heaps praise upon ESPN. Maybe you should read more carefully instead of leaping to conclusions.

Kikizo Staff Writer

I' m no sports fan by any means but one rule I' ve always lived by regarding reviews is that I stick to a magazine or review site whose reviews have always been pretty close to mine.

Although I never base any part of my buying decisions on anything reviews say it' s still good to read what others have to say.

For example, if GameFan wrote a review for let' s say " Barbie' s Butt Plug" and gave it a score of 95.. While Next-Generation magazine only gave it 1 and half stars, I' d definitely pay more attention to the GameFan review simply because alot of their reviews in my respective favorite genres have always coincided with my own opinion. I don' t think I' ve ever agreed with a review from Next-Generation magazine since they' re a bunch of 2D hating reviewers and they don' t hide it.

Same thing goes for Internet game review sites. I watch and see how they review a number of games in the genres I love the most, If I don' t agree with em most of the time then I just don' t pay attention to future reviews from those particular reviewers on a game that I' m looking forward to ;)

Now why did I bring all that up? Right now I have no bloody idea, lol..

(the point is in there some where, I just have to find it later on and edit this post, hehe)

^ Fathoms

I read the article, chief. Praise can always be made and then undercut to make the other look better. Look at this quote from the review.

This season, ESPN might have plenty of sizzle, but Madden is still the steak."

That gives ESPN props, but says that the game has a bunch of cute extras to get excited over, but if you want to play a real football game - get Madden.

Learn to read between the lines.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

And I ask again- is there some particular reason a critic isn' t allowed to say that? Just because you disagree?

My other question is pretty obvious: have you played Madden?

Kikizo Staff Writer

A critics job is to give an unbiased critique of a game, movie, food, etc. That opinion minized the qualities of another competing game to support that game being reviewed. That doesn' t sound like a review, that sounds like an advertisement.

I haven' t played Madden 2005, but I have played just about every other Madden since they were introduced on the Genesis.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

And I ask again- is there some particular reason a critic isn' t allowed to say that? Just because you disagree?

Puuuleeeeease fathoms, it' s not like you haven' t argued and or said the same thing before. He' s got an opinion, and regretfully so do you. Your not exactly the biggest fan of ESPN either because it' s not your cup of tea.

yoshi: I really don' t care too much about either. Like I said, I don' t know which one I' ll get, or even if I' ll get one at all. If the critic is allowed an opinion, why is he not allowed to say what was said?

Beef: I count more than a half-dozen praises of ESPN in that review. Simply because he thought the gameplay was better in Madden immediately means ESPN is crap? I think it' s all in your head.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Thanks for backing me up, Yoshi.

I suppose I shouldn' t be surprised...

Fathoms, you start the entire thread saying this and then you bitch when other people agree with you. Get a clue!

I was going to drop the biased IGN thing, but then I go to the site and there is a link to the ESPN 2K5 Strategy guide with the subtitle " Help for that other football game"

Biased? You make the call.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

I will make the call, thank you. They' re not biased.

But guess who is? You haven' t played Madden, and yet automatically assume it can' t possibly be better than ESPN. The reviewer in question has played both and formed an opinion; one you don' t agree with because...well, because apparently you know everything about both games without having even seen one of them.

This is really very simple. You haven' t played Madden. Therefore, you don' t even have a right to an opinion right now.

Kikizo Staff Writer

^ No one has played it, it ain' t even out yet.

My point in this post has been that IGN is biased towards Madden and that the tone of the review is trying to sell, not give an opinion of the game. In the beginning of this thread, I said that Madden will probably be great, but I feel that ESPN' s $20 price tag makes it a better buy than a $50 Madden that will marginally better or equal.

Is it the reviewer' s and the website' s perogative? - Yes.
Do I think that that is responsible journalism? - No.
Have I played the game? - No.
Have I played every other Madden and know that they change one thing every year and update the stats? - Yes.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

Have I played every other Madden and know that they change one thing every year and update the stats? - Yes.

This, right here, proves you' re not just not very good at analysis. Do you honestly think that Madden 2004 changed " one thing" over 2003? I seriously doubt you even played it. Besides the Playmaker on both offense and defense, which essentially changes the very foundation of the game and how it' s played, there were plenty of added animations, a greatly enhanced draft/off-season (drills, recruiting, coaching, etc.), and the physics engine received yet another overhaul. If you couldn' t notice, the " floaty" aspect of the players in Madden from 2001-2003 versions was pretty evident. In 2004, it disappeared to be replaced by more grounded and realistic movements amongst the players.

For someone who claims to know everything about all Maddens, you seem to miss an AWFUL lot.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Maybe I was exaggerating when I say that they add one thing, but the essence of what I said still holds true.

The one major addition last year was Playmaker, new animations and an updated physics engine don' t count to me as additions. If you see that your engine is flawed, you are supposed to fix it.

My point is that the game is basically the same game year after year with a few upgrades.

And you are avoiding my point. I was saying that the tone of the IGN ads and reviews are pushing one game over another and not giving an unbiased review of another.

How much I play Madden is a moot point. I play my friend a couple of times whenever he gets the new one and then I talk him back into playing ESPN. I haven' t owned one since like 98 or 99.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

Also, this the whole thing that I don' t understand about this thread.

U start by saying that Madden got a great review, " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" .

Then you go after people who agreed with your point of view and expanded upon it. I just want to know for future posts. I will just disagree with you and then halfway in the thread, you will start to agree with me.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

You misinterpreted my statement. I didn' t say " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" because I believe IGN to be biased. I said that because Madden has been stellar each and every year since 2001.

The words in the reviews themselves are entirely 100% unbiased. Opinion is expressed, explaining that the critic believes Madden is slightly better, but the emphasis on " slightly" is found in the numerous praises that ESPN receives within the Madden review. Just read the final paragraph.

I' ll say it again- you like ESPN. Despite the fact that Madden isn' t out yet, you have it in your head that it can' t possibly be better than ESPN. Just admit it. And lastly, you ALSO have it in your head that the opinions found in the Madden review somehow diminish the quality of ESPN, when in fact, they do just the opposite.

As for advertisements...which game do you think has more PR behind it? Hmm? Do you really think the ad campaign for ESPN is a quarter what Madden' s is in terms of visible publicity? It has nothing to do with IGN; it has everything to do with business. EA is willing to pay a LOT of money for those ad spots, my friend. IGN is a business, and likes to make money. It' s not " bias." If you think it is, then I suppose you think we at Kikizo were biased towards Ninja Gaiden because we had that pop-up before, right?

Kikizo Staff Writer

I agree to disagree because this is tired.

IGN praised ESPN (we both agree), but you can praise something and diminish it at the same time. I feel like they did that at the end of the Madden review (you disagree).

You will never think so and I won' t change my mind. Please stop writing.

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

Whatever. The truth is obvious.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Whatever. The truth is obvious.

Actually the X-Files quote is: " THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE ;)

^ The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

Gamer Tag: Beef Shala

This is like the most biased fanboy face off thread I have ever read. I can remember quite clearly from the Gamerweb days, Fathoms is the biggest Madden fanboy ever. He will refuse to ever accept that the ESPN title could ever be better than a madden game. Especially if it has Sega on the box ;) The very fact that he started this thread the way he did, should make that quite clear anyway. Its people like Fathoms that stop the ESPN games being the success they should be. I mean, why did Fathoms not post a review from a site that says the ESPN title is better and state " I guess I shouldn' t be surprised" ? It would be easy enough to find one. Of course he isn' t going to though. He always fights Maddens corner. As soon as I saw this thread I just had a flashback to the Gamerweb flame wars of old. They aren' t open to change, stick with the series they know and assume it will be better. Generally most magazines/sites I have read over the years say the ESPN/NFL*K series is better than the Madden equivalent titles, but never got the sales to match.

As for Beef Shala, your exactly the same. Your blatantly a huge ESPN fanboy who refuses to accept that perhaps the Madden title this year may be a superior product. You haven' t played it, so you have no idea. Perhaps the IGN guy is just stating his opinion. Lets face it, a review IS THERE to influence your purchasing decision. He is telling you what he suggests. You can' t slate the reviewer for that. Which of the two is better? Thats the question everyone wants to know and is the reason most are probably reading the review. You can' t abuse him for answering with his opinion on it.

As for me, I don' t care. Being from the UK, American Football is about as popular as Sumo Wrestling. i.e. NOT AT ALL. I would rather watch paint dry than an NFL game. Football (as in soccer) is the sport to watch over here and personally I think the FIFA Soccer games from EA suck. The last one I bought was FIFA 2004 and its a horrendous title. Slow, full of bugs, crap graphics, terrible online play (which is plagued with connection issues) etc etc. I generally agree that EA Sports updates usually change the minimum, but in this debate over American Fottyball games, who knows?

Life' s a bitch, and then you die!

Nesflash Pierre:

Point #1: GW was overrun with massive fanboys from front to rear. The fact that you' d quote anyone in there is meaningless.

Point #2: I never, not once, made one mention about either game. Not one. Shala seemed hell-bent on saying the IGN reviewer was biased, when in fact, he' d never even touched Madden. I never made an assumption one way or the other.

Point #3: I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe. I do not own Madden. I figured I' d go for a change this year, and my roommate already got Madden. I haven' t played either long enough to tell, but I find them both to be highly impressive football simulations.

You may want to abandon your idiotic beliefs formulated from GW. The fanboys from there are still rampant fanboys, and I' ve never cared one way or the other. Not ever. I could point to my collection again, but facts are always tougher to face than rumor...especially when it proves you wrong. Oh, how tragic.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Ooooohhhh, touchy. Look Fathoms, I wasn' t looking for a personal assualt on me. I mean, " I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe" . I would have expected more from you. Especially since you always take the moral high ground and are a representative of this site in some way. Sure I used the term fanboy, that was my mistake. I was still pretty drunk when I made the post though. All I meant by that was that you have always been a huge Madden fan who genrally, in the past, stood up for it above the ESPN series. Its not exactly super critical. I also never took either your side or Beef' s side. I stayed neutral. Or at least I think I did?

Your right about GW being full of fanboys but I never quoted anyone from there. I was only referring to Gamerweb as I know you (at least in online terms) from there more than from Kikizo.

My " idiotic beliefs" . Again, I expected a little more restraint from yourself than to resort tho this, but I' ll live. I still stand by them. And by that I mean, people' s general reluctance to deviate into an unknown gaming series. If you have ESPN 2K5 then I stand corrected on that point, but I still feel the very tone of the initial post for this thread was that of blatant support for Madden over all others.

Also, i have looked at your collection. It does nothing to convince me of anything related to this thread what-so-ever.

Oh, and the little comment about not liking the ESPN titles because of the Sega badge. That was just a joke as denoted by the winking face. I wasn' t looking to cause offense.

Regards,
Pierre

Life' s a bitch, and then you die!

Ooooohhhh, touchy. Look Fathoms, I wasn' t looking for a personal assualt on me. I mean, " I own ESPN NFL 2k5, asswipe" . I would have expected more from you. Especially since you always take the moral high ground and are a representative of this site in some way. Sure I used the term fanboy, that was my mistake. I was still pretty drunk when I made the post though. All I meant by that was that you have always been a huge Madden fan who genrally, in the past, stood up for it above the ESPN series. Its not exactly super critical. I also never took either your side or Beef' s side. I stayed neutral. Or at least I think I did?

You said, " fathoms is the biggest Madden fanboy ever." That' s BS, and is, in and of itself, a personal assault. I have never stood up for Madden over anything, really, I simply stood up for Madden against the people who said it " sucked." The only time I ever stood up for it over another series was last year' s ESPN, but that' s about it. I actually thought the GameDay series was better between the years ' 96 and ' 99. Much better. And Sega' s NFL 2k and NFL 2k1 was easily comparable to Madden 2001 and 2002. They were so close, in fact, that it was more a matter of personal preference.

Your right about GW being full of fanboys but I never quoted anyone from there. I was only referring to Gamerweb as I know you (at least in online terms) from there more than from Kikizo.

Just don' t even bring GW into it. That place was a horror show of fanboys, and I' m VERY thankful that I was in the minority.

My " idiotic beliefs" . Again, I expected a little more restraint from yourself than to resort tho this, but I' ll live. I still stand by them. And by that I mean, people' s general reluctance to deviate into an unknown gaming series. If you have ESPN 2K5 then I stand corrected on that point, but I still feel the very tone of the initial post for this thread was that of blatant support for Madden over all others.

The only " reluctance" I' ve ever had was towards games I don' t think have promise. If you, or anyone else, ever thinks that a franchise name will sway me one way or the other, you' re insane. The " tone" of this thread was to post IGN' s review, and say that it' s " not surprising" because Madden generally receives those kinds of scores. It' s not support and it' s not bashing...it' s just POSTING THE REVIEW.

Also, i have looked at your collection. It does nothing to convince me of anything related to this thread what-so-ever.

I wasn' t referring to this thread in particular. The point is that every time the " fanboy" stigma comes up, I point to the collection because it' s generally, almost 100% of the time, FAR more diverse than the one who' s doing the accusing.

Oh, and the little comment about not liking the ESPN titles because of the Sega badge. That was just a joke as denoted by the winking face. I wasn' t looking to cause offense.

I didn' t even see that in the first place, so it doesn' t matter.

Kikizo Staff Writer

I think it seems to be the use of the word " fanboy" which seems to have been the cause of the problems here. fair enough, thats my fault. I guess I should just have said " fathoms is the biggest Madden fan ever"

As for the " just posting a review" point. Well, perhaps, buts lets face it, nobody posts such a review unless they are gathering support for the game or really trying to slate it. The two extremes. Most people post reviews which coincide with their opinion on the title in question. As someone who can' t stand the much loved Operation Flashpoint game for example, I would never post one of the many reviews which go on about how good it is. Maybe you don' t agree with me, but do you at least see where I am coming from?

Life' s a bitch, and then you die!

I get it, but I' m not even the " biggest Madden fan ever."

And I understand what your assumption was for the posting of this review, but in truth, I posted it simply because it was the first Madden 2005 review I could find online. That' s all. If it was GameSpot' s and it was a 2.7, I still would' ve posted it.

And if you hadn' t guessed, I can' t stand being labeled with that retarded term, especially because it' s based around platform bias, which I' ve NEVER had...at least, not since I said the Atari 2600 was " the best thing ever." I believe I was 5 years old at the time.

Kikizo Staff Writer

I purchased ESPN NFL 2005, not for the price point, but due to the gameplay.

A co-worker, who loves Madden (and has for many years), tells me that the graphics are still not up to par with ESPN and the voice discussions seem as though John Madden and Al Michaels aren' t even in the same room.

He went on to say that, though the franchise updates and story mode were positive points, he was disappointed overall in this version of Madden. This is similar to the reviews I have been reading...

EA just needs to get off their butts and actually improve the whole game at one time, not just one little thing here or there.

I have noticed that more and more gamers are switching to ESPN NFL Football.

Madden is good, but maybe it' s time to retire this franchise.

And maybe start a new franchise...

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.