ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on
What WE should be talking about is Blu-Rays inclusion in PS3 and whether that will make Blu-Ray successful or whether Blu-Rays potential failure in other markets could spell doom for Sony' s next gen games machine.

It should be noted that Sony have tried time and again with various mediums and every one has bombed badly or been outdone with relative ease.

True this IS what we should be talking about.So my question is with so many blu-ray players going into homes, blu-ray has a good chance at success. Given most people who will pick up ps3 at least will be either tech-heads (who wanna have all the new tech as and when) or ps3 fans, they will more than likely have a means to play HD (either hdtv or monitor) to get the most out of their systems. So in that light, i believe blu-ray sales will pick up quite a bit as a fair sized portion of the initial batch will at least by 1 BR film, (so long as there is a decent number of titles or something to showcase)
So in summary, i guess, if ps3 helps drive players into homes and increase sales wont that in turn bring down the cost of BR production as it becomes more popular.

Case in point is, when dvd released i had a crappy tv, and wasn' t interested at all in the format. It was only after sega went software and i bought a ps2 that i thought, well i have the player, i might aswell use it. The only reason i have a standalone dvd player is because it was free with my pro scan tv.
Now with HD formats, they are cool and everything, but i wont be buying a player. If not for ps3 having blu-ray, i wouldn' t care. However given i will have a BR player, i will buy some films that use it.

Also if BR plays down-converted on a regular tv, then wont some ps3 owners (without hdtv) buy blu-ray knowing they can use it when they get the tv?

Sorry if it is long and poorly put, i can' t keep my concentration.

In short - yes to all of the above.

So far Blu-Ray players have a lower adoption rate but yes PS3 will mean that everybody who bought it would have a Blu-Ray player and many of those would then buy Blu-Ray films.

Ofcourse should Sony suffer the kind of shortages they did with PS2, with PS3 then HD-DVD could be comfortably ahead in terms of adoption rate by the time Sony get back up to speed.

As far as Microsoft are concerned, if HD-DVD bombs they can release a Blu-Ray drive. Granted the HD-DVD drive is fugly and not exactly convenient and there' s no saying a Blu-Ray drive would be any better but Microsoft have that option.

A few questions in regards to that:
1)Will buyers be buying the PS3 for mainly gaming or a cheap blu-ray player?

2)How many do you need out there to warrent drops in price of production?
-This is more of a spin-off to the fact on the recent production issues coming out latly. Basically asking is that first batch of just a few mil gonna hold up enough to bring costs down soon enough?

3)Even with all those players out there are people going to willingly pay $60+ for games in addition to $35+ for movies?

4)Of those 2 media which ones would Sony want selling the most of?

Dunno if those have been answered sorry if so. I also have others but I forgot them as I was typing so this is " to be continued"

NOW INFORM MEEEE

1)Will buyers be buying the PS3 for mainly gaming or a cheap blu-ray player?

The Playstation brand is commonly associated with gaming but the people who bought Sony' s consoles in droves (the average consumer) also isn' t the type to buy very expensive electronics.

When you factor the two together; a next gen console and next gen DVD player the price seems less significant but then is the Playstation audience the type to have/buy in the near future a HD display to make Blu-Ray worthwhile?!

2) How many do you need out there to warrent drops in price of production? - This is more of a spin-off to the fact on the recent production issues coming out latly. Basically asking is that first batch of just a few mil gonna hold up enough to bring costs down soon enough?

Not even close. Sony are still bleeding money and borrowing from the bank. They need to start making profit before they can reduce the costs and a couple of million units sold wouldn' t be enough. PS3 needs to have the same kind of success that PS2 had but without the 6 month (following launch) shortage.

3)Even with all those players out there are people going to willingly pay $60+ for games in addition to $35+ for movies?

If PS3' s games cost more than 360' s then Sony will be in trouble. In the UK 360 games cost £50 (around $90) and so anything more than that wouldn' t go down well. N64 games were expensive because the carts were expensive to manufacture and we already know Blu-Ray costs' s more than DVD9 to manufacture AND develop using.

4)Of those 2 media which ones would Sony want selling the most of?

Good question!

The answer is Blu-Ray. See, there' s more money to be made if Sony can control the next gen DVD format for movies. Money from every single player and disc sold would go to Sony and they' d get rich off the royalties. If Blu-Ray is a success in the home movie market then PS3 has a better chance of success as a next gen DVD player, however Blu-Ray' s success in the movie market is fairly reliant on PS3' s success as a next gen movie player.

It' s obviously a games machine but Sony have always touted it as an entertainment hub and have always said that it' s not primarily a games machine.

What WE should be talking about is Blu-Rays inclusion in PS3 and whether that will make Blu-Ray successful or whether Blu-Rays potential failure in other markets could spell doom for Sony' s next gen games machine.

...k...

...by the end of 2008, 95% of people buying high def films will be doing so purely because of the PS3 in their lounges...

...almost no-one will be buying HD-DVD films because no one will be bothered to buy a dedicated player.....

....if HD-DVD behaves like DVD and drastically reduces it' s prices over the space of 3-5 years, Blu-ray might, finally, have some serious competition.....


....in short, Blu-ray will dominate for the next 2-3 years, then HD-DVD will likely fight back with DVD-like prices, which would be met shortly after with lower Blu-ray player prices and a $350 Premium PS3....

A few questions in regards to that:
1)Will buyers be buying the PS3 for mainly gaming or a cheap blu-ray player?

...both... ...just like what they did for PS2....

2)How many do you need out there to warrent drops in price of production?
-This is more of a spin-off to the fact on the recent production issues coming out latly. Basically asking is that first batch of just a few mil gonna hold up enough to bring costs down soon enough?

...i don' t know about actual amounts, but i' d expect the PS3 to behave like any other piece of high end consumer kit, and have its price reduced by $200 within 2 years of its release, which would be reduced for a second time maybe 18 months after the first reduction...

3)Even with all those players out there are people going to willingly pay $60+ for games in addition to $35+ for movies?

...i' d expect prices for PS3 games to be either the same as 360 or at a $5 premium, which to most people is more or less acceptable.... ...the same would apply to Blu-ray movies ($5 premium, annoying but acceptable)

4)Of those 2 media which ones would Sony want selling the most of?

...see what majik wrote......

Also, if we' re talking about said average consumer here, let' s skip any technical specifications here, and go with some simple things.

If I, for one, were the average consumer, who knew little to nothing about electronics, and I saw the same movie on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, I would go with HD-DVD. The name just sounds familiar, but better. That' s a very small point to make, but a lot of people go on name, and price, and if HD-DVD is cheaper, and people are already familiar with just calling movies " DVDs" anyway, that could be something.

ORIGINAL: Tim Strickland

Also, if we' re talking about said average consumer here, let' s skip any technical specifications here, and go with some simple things.

If I, for one, were the average consumer, who knew little to nothing about electronics, and I saw the same movie on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, I would go with HD-DVD. The name just sounds familiar, but better. That' s a very small point to make, but a lot of people go on name, and price, and if HD-DVD is cheaper, and people are already familiar with just calling movies " DVDs" anyway, that could be something.

So it basically comes down to advertising, and ps3.

ORIGINAL: uumai

So it basically comes down to advertising, and ps3.

Isn' t that what most successful products are anyways? The iPod is not the best MP3 player around, but its strong brand recognition and customer loyalty are what keeps it strong. There are overall better search engines than Google, but so many people have the name ingrained in their mindset that it just stays on top.

My point is that someone who knows no better than watching movies on DVD would only be confused by a " Blu-Ray Disc" . If they, in turn, see HD-DVD, it sounds like exactly what it is.

ORIGINAL: Tim Strickland

ORIGINAL: uumai

So it basically comes down to advertising, and ps3.

Isn' t that what most successful products are anyways? The iPod is not the best MP3 player around, but its strong brand recognition and customer loyalty are what keeps it strong. There are overall better search engines than Google, but so many people have the name ingrained in their mindset that it just stays on top.

My point is that someone who knows no better than watching movies on DVD would only be confused by a " Blu-Ray Disc" . If they, in turn, see HD-DVD, it sounds like exactly what it is.

True, true. But I believe sony will force BR down peoples throat, when you walk into shops you will see all about it. The films will probably have " Compatabile with playstation 3" on them to help bring awareness too. And once cost goes down for blu-ray, better codecs can be used thus making the format better.

Aside from price, to the consumer/publishers/whatever, in what way is HD-DVD actually better than Blu-Ray?

uumai said:

True, true. But I believe sony will force BR down peoples throat, when you walk into shops you will see all about it. The films will probably have " Compatabile with playstation 3" on them to help bring awareness too. And once cost goes down for blu-ray, better codecs can be used thus making the format better.

Aside from price, to the consumer/publishers/whatever, in what way is HD-DVD actually better than Blu-Ray?

Ah yes, Sony' s marketing. It did help them win with the PS2, did it not?

The only actual comparison I' ve seen between the two was between Training Day, which was the first cross-platform movie. HD-DVD came out on top in all fields (Video/Audio/Extras), which is kind of surprising. It mainly does break down to the MPEG-2 codec, however.

But, to be honest, there is no real advantage that I can think of other than the price. Which, to be even more honest, is all that matters to the consumer, publisher, and " whatever" .

If HD-DVD costs less to make, the consumer pays less and the publisher makes more (I know I just broke that down in imbesilic terms, don' t take it as offense). If I were in the DVD business, that would automatically make me jump on the bandwagon. The only true advantage (besides storage) I see in Blu-Ray is the copy protection, which only benefits the company. In conclusion, let' s just be real here - no copy protection in the world is ever going to go uncracked. So when another copy protection scheme is failed, and companies start seeing losses again, it goes to HD-DVD.

I, myself, am going for HD-DVD. I' m the consumer, and it costs less to me. Not to mention, I already have an XBox 360, so an add-on is a LOT less than a brand new console which I already wouldn' t be getting anyway.

ORIGINAL: Tim Strickland

uumai said:

True, true. But I believe sony will force BR down peoples throat, when you walk into shops you will see all about it. The films will probably have " Compatabile with playstation 3" on them to help bring awareness too. And once cost goes down for blu-ray, better codecs can be used thus making the format better.

Aside from price, to the consumer/publishers/whatever, in what way is HD-DVD actually better than Blu-Ray?

Ah yes, Sony' s marketing. It did help them win with the PS2, did it not?

The only actual comparison I' ve seen between the two was between Training Day, which was the first cross-platform movie. HD-DVD came out on top in all fields (Video/Audio/Extras), which is kind of surprising. It mainly does break down to the MPEG-2 codec, however.

But, to be honest, there is no real advantage that I can think of other than the price. Which, to be even more honest, is all that matters to the consumer, publisher, and " whatever" .

If HD-DVD costs less to make, the consumer pays less and the publisher makes more (I know I just broke that down in imbesilic terms, don' t take it as offense). If I were in the DVD business, that would automatically make me jump on the bandwagon. The only true advantage (besides storage) I see in Blu-Ray is the copy protection, which only benefits the company. In conclusion, let' s just be real here - no copy protection in the world is ever going to go uncracked. So when another copy protection scheme is failed, and companies start seeing losses again, it goes to HD-DVD.

I, myself, am going for HD-DVD. I' m the consumer, and it costs less to me. Not to mention, I already have an XBox 360, so an add-on is a LOT less than a brand new console which I already wouldn' t be getting anyway.

Interestingly, weren' t the titles that were compared, cheaper on Blu-Ray, if i recall..?
As demand for br goes up, mainly from ps3 i believe, surely the prices will begin to fall, and with more br players out there, im sure movie houses will want to target the largest userbase, much like in videogames, with the marketshare leader in consoles.

i mean BR sales on initial launch period compared with the same period on HD-DVD was only like 33% less. Not bad already for a more expensive player and films that didn' t do so hott..... Hell warner still didn' t need to crop the BR releases in my mind... weirdos

Well i think i' m going to sleep now... it' s late and i got work in the morrow.... Good night y' all

Direct quoted from another post, because I don' t feel like repeating myself at the moment.

From a marketing and buisness perspective, it was a daring choice for Sony, a real gamble, they' re throwing the success of their console on one of their own media formats, again. (remember UMD movies boys and girls? No, they weren' t just stories told by parents to scare their children, they were real at some point.) You' d think they' d look at all the format wars they' ve lost.

-MiniDisk

-MMCD (Multimedia Compact Disk)

-HiFD (High capacity Floppy Disk)

-UMD

-SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound)

-ATRAC/ATRAC3 sound compression systems

-Betamax tapes

The only major success Sony had with formats was the 3.5 floppy, and by the time that was established as the standard format, it was on the brink of being superceded by the CD. I' ve got no clue why they' re confident with this format right now.