Sadly I don' t think a great gaming lineup would have done much for the 360 in Japan. Nowadays, if you don' t have a Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy game somewhere in your lineup in Japan don' t even bother coming to the dance.

That' s why the U.S. is more like the land of opportunity for a console maker that does everything RIGHT but doesn' t have the backing of a Square Enix or the strength of the Nintendo name.. Sony did everything right with the first PlayStation and managed to wrestle the market away from two long time veterans. In Japan they did so with the help of Squaresoft and Final Fantasy VII..

If you don' t have FF, Dragon Quest, Mario or equivalent, then it' s not a good lineup

...tell it like it is, dude...

..... it' s got nothing to do with console size, shape or colour.... nothing to do with the word ' Microsoft' or branding...... and nothing to do with patriotism.....

...there is only one painfully obvious reason why those sensible, school-girl loving ' japs' correctly laugh with disdain at the xbox/360...

THE GAMES ARE CRAP. PERIOD.

...there are exceptions of course... but why do you think most people own Playstations? ...because with Sony you know that you won' t be inundated with sh*tty, bottom of the pile games.... ...Seriously, does Microsoft really think an endless stream of second-rate sports, driving and first person shooters is what people really want?...weather they are Japanese, American or European??...

... having said that, MS do seem to be trying harder this time ' round.... i think that the 360 won' t be as huge a rip-off as the Xbox was.....and no one can argue with Xbox-Live, which combined with an ABUNDANCE and VARIETY of worthwhile games could really help 360 to strongly rival PS3...

Also: i have been wondering if half the people here work for Microsoft... it' s like the Xbox/360 can do no wrong...

These sunglasses should hide my beady eyes. Now if only I can quit saying chesterfield and touque I might be able to sneak up on Cheesaw undetected. HAHAHAAHAHAAAHHA He' ll be in the presence of a Canadian and not even know it!!!

I always thought Japan loved America, what with all the blonde haired anime and video game heroes, Elvis cosplays and school girl infatuations with foreign bands etc! Japan is actually trying to branch out from their own culture at the moment, which is kind of a shame for us, but understandable. [:' (]

As far as I' ve read, the old patriotism and fear of change only exists among the older generation these days. (Any japanese ppl please correct me!)

THE GAMES ARE CRAP. PERIOD.

...there are exceptions of course... but why do you think most people own Playstations? ...because with Sony you know that you won' t be inundated with sh*tty, bottom of the pile games.... ...Seriously, does Microsoft really think an endless stream of second-rate sports, driving and first person shooters is what people really want?...weather they are Japanese, American or European??...

... having said that, MS do seem to be trying harder this time ' round.... i think that the 360 won' t be as huge a rip-off as the Xbox was.....and no one can argue with Xbox-Live, which combined with an ABUNDANCE and VARIETY of worthwhile games could really help 360 to strongly rival PS3...

Also: i have been wondering if half the people here work for Microsoft... it' s like the Xbox/360 can do no wrong...

Big quote, i know, but rarely have i seen so much crap in one post.

There is just so many thing to say, lol i dont even know where to start.

You say MS only releases worn out sports games, but fact of the matter is, almost every single one of those games are released for the Playstation as well. Both consoles have their own niche, and the xbox' s niche is FPS games or games like that. Sony console its japs adventures and stupid games like ratchet and clank and jak and daxter. There are more crappy games released for the your precious Sony console than there are on the xbox, ofcourse mainly because more people purchased it, because at the point it was released it was really the only console out on the market worth buying.

Yes half the people here like xbox, but the other half likes Playstation so thats about equal.

I cant see why people keep bashing the 360, i havent heard of a single user (okay one who sold his because of a noise issue) who has been dissapointed with the purchase, all the games i have are good, albeit they might be short, but if a long game is at the sacrifice of watching 10 hours of meaningles japaneese nonesense in a rpg, and using the rest of the 30 hours of gameplay bashing monsters in random encounters, then ill stick with my 12 hour Condemned or PDZ.

Okay the graphic might not be super.... yet... but dont expect that on the PS3 either. and expert as many old school games in new shells as on the xbox, i cant really see why people complain about that. Yes its and fps, yes we' ve seen that gun before, but its wrote around new stories and characters, we dont complain (okay some do) about movies going around in ring.

The industry takes a small step every generation, in graphics, style, gameplay and imagination, trying to force things to evolve by complaining want help. MS is as inventive as Sony, and there are definetly more fun games for me on the xbox system than on the playstation, probably because i dont see the point in having different silly animals prance around in guns and armor, when i can have humans or sexy chicks instead. If putting a boy with sharp eyes with a squirrel makes a game more original, thats plainly sad..

microsoft should have waited untill DOA4 and Oblivion where ready, the japs dont like fps as much as us.

The main reason it didnt sell is becuase it dosent appeal to the japs. They are not like americans and us europeans who want the biggest, the best, and the Most expensive technogly on the market today, instead they want the smallest,most quick and silent technolgy on the market today.

It will pick up after a while tough.

ORIGINAL: Silentbomber

microsoft should have waited untill DOA4 and Oblivion where ready, the japs dont like fps as much as us.

The main reason it didnt sell is becuase it dosent appeal to the japs. They are not like americans and us europeans who want the biggest, the best, and the Most expensive technogly on the market today, instead they want the smallest,most quick and silent technolgy on the market today.

It will pick up after a while tough.

Unfortunately it was probably a case of " damned if you do and damned if you don' t" for Microsoft in Japan. They could either:

A: Release the console now, while it still has a little hype left, regardless of what games are ready or not.
B: Wait until the better games are completed and then launch. But by doing so they get closer to the PS3 launch date and run the risk of people forgoing the X360 completely in favor of the PS3.

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

Also: i have been wondering if half the people here work for Microsoft... it' s like the Xbox/360 can do no wrong...

I don' t think it' s just plainly fanboyism - at least it isn' t for me. I play the games that are fun regardless of platform. I think a lot of people want Microsoft to do well (including myself) because greater competitiveness between Microsoft and Sony will benefit us (the end users) in the long run. Close competition means more innovation, more games, greater variation of products, lower prices, etc.

A great example of solid competitiveness is the graphics card industry. A few years back Nvidia was the completely dominant force with very little competition. Nvidia completely stuffed it up with the NV30 chipset (GeforceFX) and if it weren' t for ATI and it' s great R300 chipset (Radeon 9xxx), we' d have to endure using those pieces of crap. Luckily ATI capitalized on Nvidia' s mistake and managed to take a large portion of the market from them. Now a few generations later and both Nvidia and ATI have stepped up and both offer completely amazing products. Hence, the end users win when it comes down to it.

We' re already starting to see some great competition between Sony and Microsoft that has spurned things like Xbox Live. But there' s still much more that can be done. That' s what I' m hoping for - greater competition.

The Japanese are UNBELIEVABLY patriotic and resistant to outside influence. Yes, they have been embracing some western ideals and products, but if you think about it, the products weren' t MADE for them. Nobody setup a meeting and said, " how are we going to make these Nike shoes more attractive to the Japanese consumers." They marketed an existing brand (something that had already become huge in the western world) and the Japanese went for it. They should just let the same thing happen with the Xbox brand. Just do the best they can in the west, and see what happens in the east.

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

THE GAMES ARE CRAP. PERIOD.

...there are exceptions of course... but why do you think most people own Playstations? ...because with Sony you know that you won' t be inundated with sh*tty, bottom of the pile games.... ...Seriously, does Microsoft really think an endless stream of second-rate sports, driving and first person shooters is what people really want?...weather they are Japanese, American or European??...

I disagree Bishonen. The 360 launch lineup thus far has been GREAT for me. Actually, I don' t even have the budget to get all the games I want, nor the time to play even the ones I have as much as I want. Seriously. I mean, how many games will you purchase when you get your next system? Two? Three? Four? I got 3, and there are at least two more available right now that I want, and one in the pipeline (DOA 4). Then again, it is a matter of preference. I LOVE FPSs and fighting games. Of course RPGs ARE under-represented right now, but there' s not a lot we can do about that except wait. If you choose to wait to get your 360, or skip it completely, then that' s cool. I' ll be enjoying some next-gen goodness in the meantime!

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Even the graphics weren' t as cool as I was expecting.

Key work: EXPECTING. I know a lot of people were EXPECTING a different world when the next gen was released. I think you' ll probably be disappointed with ALL new releases, because the graphics on the 360 are SICK! It' s leaps and bounds better than anything on the market right now, and there are just launch titles right now! By the time the PS3 comes to market the 360 games are gonna be even TIGHTER! Not saying that the PS3 is not desireable (because I WILL have one), just that it' s dangerous to get your expectation TOO high.

Vx Chemical, you say you haven' t heard one single person who is disappointed with their purchase? That' s not strange since most of those who bought it are Xbox fans. I mean, if the console was sold out and they weren' t able to meet the demand, you can only expect that the true Xbox fans where there first to buy them. Also, if I bought a machine for 400$, I' d keep telling myself I' m satisfied with it until the end of days, even if I didn' t like it. And I bet there are lots of disappointed people, it' s just that they don' t show up in forums or in the media.
Chee Saw, my expectations weren' t as high as you seem to think. And I' m not comparing the 360 graphics with what the PS3 is said to have. I compared the graphics with current gen consoles and PCs and as far as I' m concerned, the graphics aren' t good enough to spend the money on a console with so many crappy games and so few good ones. I think the jump from PS to PS2 was a far greater jump in graphics than the XBox to the 360.
Maybe Nintendo is right, maybe we have reached a point where the graphics can' t be improved enough to keep interest in the industry?

Vx Chemical You say MS only releases worn out sports games, but fact of the matter is, almost every single one of those games are released for the Playstation as well.
....There are more crappy games released for the your precious Sony console than there are on the xbox [edit]

...yes, rubbish games also get released on the PS2, but this is forgivable because Sony have all the best titles also, to make up for it..... .....Xbox just had piles and piles of utter sh*te which Microsoft tried to label as next gen..... and the signs are that 360 could be heading in that same direction...

UnluckyOne I don' t think it' s just plainly fanboyism - at least it isn' t for me. I play the games that are fun regardless of platform. I think a lot of people want Microsoft to do well (including myself) because greater competitiveness between Microsoft and Sony will benefit us (the end users) in the long run. Close competition means more innovation, more games, greater variation of products, lower prices, etc.

...on principle, i agree... I' d be a fool not to... but i don' t believe you should accept some of the BS that Microsoft has been trying to get away with, purely for an increase in overall market competitiveness..... i mean what kind of a message does that send out to other potential Console makers? .... that it is ok to con Console gamers with your sub-standard wanna-be PC in a box?? ...that Console gamers used to Japanese craftsmanship and quality, prefer your unrelenting barrage of average - person - shoot - then - drive - car dross??.... that owners of your Console appreciate it being abandoned three years after launch?...

... i guess my overall point is that you can' t dress unwanted PC games as Console games and expect people to not go " What' s this crap?" .....

Chee Saw Then again, it is a matter of preference. I LOVE FPSs and fighting games.

.... when they are well done and fresh, so do i .... ..actually, personally, i generally prefer adult Western-friendly Japanese games like Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Onimusha and Ninja Gaiden... i also like highly imaginative adult Western games like Soul Reaver, Mortal Combat, Jade Empire and Halo... ... i don' t know if either types of games do well in Japan though...

P.S.
...what about all those genuinely good PC games that never show up on xbox/360? ...like F.E.A.R...Black and White...Spore.... The Witcher... NeverWinter Nights.....World of Warcraft ...Painkiller and so on? .... why do you have to wait for an age, before you see rubbish conversions of games like Half Life 2??

...how is it that Microsoft can' t get top drawer PC games released simultaneously on xbob/360?? ... how can they F*ck up their own niche market??? ...

< Message edited by Bishonen -- 15 Dec 05 17:44:07 >

Sometimes you really thrill with your " intelligent" MS bashing Bishonen. Japaneese craftmanship my ass, nothing as been poorer crafted than the PS2, and with the PStwo the artisans at Sony even forgot to check if their chipset could run with all the games making games incompatible with their new silver slimline model, thats just pure brilliance, yeah right.

The graphic and gameplay on the Xbox has surpased those of the sony console, just to mention Splinter Cell, which actually is a rather groundbreaking game, made for the Xbox, and released as an after thought of the PS2.

Sony releases as many AAA titles as MS does, after that its up to the developers and publishers.

Sony has released God of War, and Shadow of the Colussus

MS has Halo franchise.

Reason why more of your so called good publishers release their games for the Playstation is solely because its the most widely owned console, not because Sony has made a better machine.

If you listen to current developers Xbox 360 is the Machine to develop for where is the Playstation 3 is a pile of rubbish to sort through.

Dont bash microsoft because you prefer playing japaneese games.

It isnt even about conversions of pc games, its about original games, ofcourse they cant get Half Life 2 to run perfectly on an Xbox, its too slow a machine for that game, but they got it running decently.

Ooooooooooo! Bishonen silents the entire Xbox fan-club!
Still, at least Xbox got a Half-life 2 unlike PS2
And isn' t it the publishers decision if a PC game gets released on the Xbox, not Microsofts?

Bishonen silences nothing. He' s just sour his precious PS2 cant produce as the xbox can, Xbox is nextgen compared to the PS2.

Halflife 2 could never be made on the Xbox. Nor could doom 3 for that matter

Back from spain/gran canaria :P what have i missed?!
Xbox360 sold bad in japan?
Well the great games was delayed so im not supriced...it will get better,soon,how much? i dont know...

....dude, i don' t even OWN a Playstation2 ... ...all i have is an Xbox, and a handful of games....

...damm sure wish i did have one though....

...PS2 is not undeserving of criticism... for example, i feel that it IS to blame for the current culture of iditotic-bog-standard-games.... ...it' s just that after five years, you also have a large collection of quality releases also... ...whilst M$, due to one reason or another, have taken the ' filler' mindset to ridiculously new high levels, thinking that all anyone wants to play is Vietnam games of insultingly low quality..... then they decide to throw in the towel, just when things were beginning to pick up...

...i have never felt as ripped off buy a ' Console maker' as i have with Microsoft...

...and because i am a Xbox owner, i have every right to ' bash' it.... ...if i pay my hard earned cash for a product, and get sh*it value for money, I WILL BITCH!!

< Message edited by Bishonen -- 16 Dec 05 17:22:38 >

I have ps2+gc+xbox ofc i have the right to bash all 3 if i wanna,but i just cant do it,i love/loved them all 3,i was hoping for a better mario/zelda,and mayby this new twilight will deliver what i hoped for,but other then that im fine with my gc.
Tales of symphonia is one of the best rpg' s i played,sure the character and the towns could had have more " soul" into them,but the bosses/enemies/fighting system,and the lenght and the side quest was just awesome,it was a awesome rpg,and it came to gc,and heck even resident evil4 come to gc,gc gaved me a great sci fi game with rouge squadron,great rpg with tales of,and great racing with f-zero.

Same with xbox,it did not pump out as many great games as ps2,however i still prefered xbox cause of the few great titles.

Some of the xbox games that was awesome...

Sw kotor,splinter cell serie,halo,panzer dragon,shenmue2,ninja gaiden,doa3 and ghost recon/rainbow six serie to name a few.

I think all the consoles delivered what we expected of them.

The reason why xbox sold bad in japan was lack of rpg,and now they are late with doa4+enchant arm+pgr3 ofc the xbox360 wont sell good then.
What are they gonna buy?
xbox360 + pdz?
Thats fine,i would want that too,but i really dont think that will lure japanese people to buy the 360 tbh.
Lets just wait untill thir games are out there,and when the rpgs are coming...

sure bash the Xbox, but there are soooo many good titles out for it, i didnt buy any of those so called cheap games you mention, because i dont play sports games for one.

Of good franchises on the xbox there are: Splinter Cell, Halo, Doom, Prince of Persia, KOTOR, Jade Empire, fable (to some extent), Crimson Skies, Morrowind, Raven Shield, DOA, Ninja Gaiden, Psi Ops, Halflife 2.

Of PS2 games im sad to have missed there are Shadow of the Colossus, and ICO, and DMC, and to some extent good of war.

I own a Xbox and a GC, and ofcourse a 360. whether i buy an PS3 depends on whether or not other game companies than the Japs bite on, because i despise the japs rpg' s i hávent played one yet that i find fun. when playing RPG the standard set for me is Baldur' s Gate and Planescape torment, things simply dont come better than that RPG wise!

japanese games are extremly important for a console because they are simply the best... the industry without nintendo, squaresoft, capcom , konami , sega, will be dead however you can imagine the industry without euuuh (the euuuh is to show you that i had a hard time to find one that is worth listing lol) EA for exemple (i think the rest is juust so so to even crap ), the only american companies that i respect so much are (Activision, id software and Valve ) ... so it is obvious why x box is the second console choice for people and that is not because of the quality games it offers but because of its " X BOX LIVE" yes that' s what changed everything

i know that most japanese love ps2 than x box
i know that most europeans love ps2 than x box
and even in my small counrty ps2 is much more popular

i own ths ps2 and x box and a PC i was very disapointed by the x box , well i don' t have x box live but for the other hundred games i played on that system, only few really few offered a good quality time

Ninja gaiden, Fable (somehow), euuuh forza, Splinter cell 3,2,1 , conker' s bad fur day, Halo 1 and not really the 2... ok may be i forgot another 5 games , that is a very very poor list

for the multi platform most of the time i go to PC with higher graphics (i have a ps2 pad pluged in)
you don' t care about half life 2- doom 3 - or somewhat Far cry when you own a pc

PS2 offered so much better experience, i even had the chance to play resident evil 4 (thank you so much capcom) many AAA games and so many AA titles

VX Chemical, japanese RPG are much beter than the americans one, like it or not, the sales talk, the fan base talk, you cannot compare a name like final fantasy with bulder' s gate or jade empire.... i think you didn' t have a chance yet to try a JAP RPG and you should dude you miss so much...