Agent are u do it in purpose , trying to ignore eveything so you can make a point?? how many times that killing disbelievers are not in ISLAM at all except in War obviously... and man i' m talking about 1400 years old taht not young relatively to what has been discovered today, so now you' re saying that they knew all this way before ?? come on man , if you just try to discover islam a little bit deeper than the bullshit they tell you, you migh discover amazing things, at leaaast it' ll make you have faith, may be not in islam but at least there is a god. sorry i couldn' t watch the video as my brother is downloading soemthing in the network but anyway i think i got the idea.

i' m 100% that you are not 100% that god does not exist.

by the way As our prophete said , most of muslims will go to hell...

Im 100% sure there is no God. Otherwise I' d call myself an agnostic.

The video I showed you Aba has quotes from the Qu' ran. Which besically promote the idea very bluntly that all none belivers should be killed. Islam is a cult, just like all the other ones they start very violently. Eventually, as time promotes reason parts of the Qu' ran will be taken out and replaced. Just as the Bible has been revised. Looking further down the line. Everything that is objectionable will be erased from both texts. It' s just a matter of time before reason prevails over superstition. Once that happens peace might actually have a chance.

how can you be that sure ?? this is beyond any comprehension , i guess there will always be people who will not listen no matter what you tell them, this has been in all ages, guess you' re one of those.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg


' NUFF SAID.

Dude, almost everybody on Kikizo is an atheist. Only practicing Christians on this forum were me and Rampage, and he' s taken off for a while, so that leaves me as the only person here admitting to being Christian. Nitro' s a Jew, but not Jewish, and I don' t think we have a single Muslim here.

Hold up a minute there buddy, first of all, just because someone isn' t a member of one of the " big three" religions doesn' t make them an atheist. There' s a whole lot more religions out there than those three and there' s also people like me who do believe in some higher being but prefer to choose an individual path to that.

what he means by that is that this is the main purpose of our creation , to prey him .. WHY ? Only god knows why

Now, Very interesting..

That has clicked for me,.. Why? Ive been watching the following video and it seems scientist have been leaning on the same terms..

http://stage6.divx.com/user/2BIG4myBRITCHES/video/1339597/The-Privileged-Planet

It' s shows and rounds up the latest knowledge and discoveries man has made through science over thousands of years. If you watch it through, these scientists are in no way mocking GOD but actually lead to the theory that the statistics of our habital planet seems like it was created to be explored, for man to want to seek it' s reasoning.. It' s very deep, but does have an open ended theory that could leads towards what you quoted from the Coran Above...

Has got me thinking. thanks for that.

Hold up a minute there buddy, first of all, just because someone isn' t a member of one of the " big three" religions doesn' t make them an atheist. There' s a whole lot more religions out there than those three and there' s also people like me who do believe in some higher being but prefer to choose an individual path to that

Yep, im the same boat.

Hold up a minute there buddy, first of all, just because someone isn' t a member of one of the " big three" religions doesn' t make them an atheist. There' s a whole lot more religions out there than those three and there' s also people like me who do believe in some higher being but prefer to choose an individual path to that.

You' re not about to say you' re a buddhist? jk

i' ve seen the video agent , the guy is funny but i think when he talks about religion , he has one religion in mind Christianity mainly ( money ) , and for exemple in islam god does not say " i love you" or anything like that he says and i' ll just paraphrase " i love true believers" there is a whooole difference between the bible and Quran, the way it is said, i never liked how the bible is written, you don' t feel like if god speaking, you don' t feel the power and supremacy, in the bible God is imagined more like a man, he has even a son... no such thing in islam or the curan , again i' m speaking with someone who has absoluuutly no idea about islam... and by the way this guy is a comedian, no he might have funny points, but religion is much more complexe than that.. and DO KNOW that this is the creation of god and he can do what he wants , if he wants you to rote in hell for nooo reason , then he can and nobody can question that... people are talking about god like we' re in congress trying to veto some laws or we are a union of some kind, god doesn' t have to negotiate anything and this is clear in islam, he can do what he wants but he also assures us that he is fair , he will never judge somebody wrongfully ever... that' s of course according to what he says in the Coran.

For us the bible is written exactly like our second source in ranking , that is the hadiths of the prophere, what he said , all his guidance... now that is comparable to the bible... But the Coran for US is written by God directly, the interlocutor is god himself.

one important note, translating the Coran from arabic to english or french lose a lot and i mean a lot of its attractiveness and value but it can still be much better than not reading it at all.



Agent , read this please:since the coran has been written, there is nobody in this whoole world that had come up with a style so attractive as the coran' s not even getting close .. in the arabic language, not even the greatest poets of the time who were extremly competent in the arabic language and were very very famous , and who tried and tried but failed to match that.. and do remember please that our prophete was analphabet according to history not to islam. What' s more interesting is that in the Coran itself God defies all mankind to bring something with this quality of writing he literaly said " try if you can..." , now isn' t that just amazing . THIS IS ONE OF THE MIRACLE OF THE CORAN

It' s shows and rounds up the latest knowledge and discoveries man has made through science over thousands of years. If you watch it through, these scientists are in no way mocking GOD but actually lead to the theory that the statistics of our habital planet seems like it was created to be explored, for man to want to seek it' s reasoning.. It' s very deep, but does have an open ended theory that could leads towards what you quoted from the Coran Above...

In the Coran God says (by the way i hate quoting the coran like that as i only paraphrase but i have to) , that little by little he will show us evidence and truth , he says that aaalll the evidence is in what he created and that the greatest minds will discover them. please ask any muslim about this he will tell you the same thing and if he is knowledgable enough he' ll bring you the exact verse, well i now the verse exist i read it many time but i can' t remember where it is exactly in the book... a scholar or even a religious person will know for sure... if you really interested and don' t believe me then i' ll make an effort and will show you the exact verse tomorrow.

isn' t einsten a believer ? that man is no stupid for sure. as i said millions of scientists believe in GOD, they might be confused about religions which i totaly understand but at least most of them agree , there is a suprem being " over there" .

The bible is said to be well written to. lol

I' ll take your word for it. I' ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it sounds very poetic. But that' s way beyond the point. It' s not the writting skill that offends me, it' s the message. The qu' ran very plainly states that if you don' t follow us we will kill you. How can you justify this?

Worst than that is the fact that it' s intellectually dishonest (like all religions). The idea that someone thousands of years ago had all the answers, in a time when religion was king and science was insuficient to refute wild claims. Looking at history religious people have done everything in their power to keep the masses as dumb as possible as to keep history and science in the dark. These fucking people are just making up shit as they go.

Do you believe in Angels to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O426jQAjGSM

Things that are good and correct in Muslim teachings are not exclusive to Islam. Human nature in it' s rawest form is very good. A person is never born bad. One of my favorite quotes is somethign like this: " Religion is the only thing that can make good people do bad things." Another one is: " Religion makes people do good things for bad reasons" .

But you can' t deny that religion isn' t about power and money. That' s all it is buddy. Religions are nothing more than old empires that haven' t died. They use everything in their power to gain support. Scare tactics, lies, coercion etc. Don' t tell me that Islam doesn' t have it' s hands dirty. Any religious leader is like any elitist. They want more for themselves and less for others. Simple.

I am not saying that everyone who follows a religion should be round up and shot. My point is that religion seems to be at the heart of most conflicts around the world, if religion (remembering this is hypothetical) was banned from the world then maybe people would have less to kill each other over, you would then only have colour, and land rights, aas someone has already said mankind is totaly screwed up. If there was an " all powerful, all forgiving entity" then why let the people he created in his (or hers) own image go round killing themselves in the name of God, Allah, jehovah, Buddah or whatever deity you worship.

MY TAKE ON RELIGION IN SOCIETY:

Religions are fine because it is based on beliefs that comes from the heart.
Politics are fine because it is based on our knowledge and need for civilisation and security.
Laws are fine because they are based on our need for justice and peace.

But none of the three should go hand in hand with the other.
Religion cannot be allowed to influence neither politics nor laws.
Laws cannot be allowed to change peoples political stand point nor their beliefs.
Justice must be applied to everything in society or there will be no justice, religion and politics cannot be exceptions to the cold neutrality of an impartial judge.

This is fundamental in order to maintain a society based on safety, freedom, peace and justice.

" The writers against religion, whilst they oppose every system, are wisely careful never to set up any of their own."

MY TAKE ON RELIGION AND OTHER EXISTENTIAL MATTERS:

Just as a fish can' t to math, a human being cannot form other types of thought.
To simplify even more, let' s say a human mind can think in 2 dimensions. But as we all knew, all things are 3-dimensional. Which means we cannot grasp big parts of reality. But we' ve also learned that the 3rd dimension is not the last, there are numerous dimensions and each one cannot be grasped by the human mind.
As such, all our knowledge is nothing, all our truths are as true as we believe them to be. All truths are based on what we can percieve.
But as I have clearly stated, what we can percieve is nothing compared to what we can not percieve. So what is the only thing we truly know? Despite all the things we humans know, it is NOTHING compared to what exists. So, nothing is all we know.

Another line of thought is abstract thinking. To those who blindly follow the simple science 1+1=2. But it has been proven that sometimes 1+1 is not 2.
To simply asume that logic and natural order is the one true truth is as foolish as blindly following a religion. Only through abstract thinking, believing in what cannot be, will we be able to grasp but a tiny peace of reality.
Logic and science, only follows what we can percieve, nothing else.
You could almost say, that logic is not the way of nature or reality, but rather the way of human thoughts.

Based on these thoughts I' ve realised that there is a possibility of consciousness that we cannot percieve.
If there is a God, I' m quite sure he follows all the scientific rules. The problem is just that the width of grasping such knowledge will be forever impossible for us to understand.

As such, I think the written religions we have today are symbolic simplifications of the thoughts of philosophers who lived thousands of years ago.
I do not believe in the God, or angels, or heaven but I do believe in the ideas behind such terms. I believe in the symbolism.

Of course, as the religious texts are written by humans they are not perfect, they have been rewritten and they' ve been misunderstood.
As such, religion should never be taken literally but rather appreciated on an individual level where the reader tries to UNDERSTAND the ideas, rather than blindly following them.

That' s one of my biggest issues with many religious people. Instead of trying to UNDERSTAND the knowledge in the texts and form their own truth, they blindly follow it.

" Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

Edidie

You actually believe in adam and Eve?

Nope. I believe that the bible is a good resource, not a literal history of the world.

Hold up a minute there buddy, first of all, just because someone isn' t a member of one of the " big three" religions doesn' t make them an atheist. There' s a whole lot more religions out there than those three and there' s also people like me who do believe in some higher being but prefer to choose an individual path to that.

I' m aware. I' m talking about the people who have actually come out and expressed their faith on the forums openly.

The bible is said to be well written to. lol

I' ll take your word for it. I' ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it sounds very poetic. But that' s way beyond the point. It' s not the writting skill that offends me, it' s the message. The qu' ran very plainly states that if you don' t follow us we will kill you. How can you justify this?

No man that' s not beyond the point, that' s the whole point, the writinbg skills is beyond humans, when you read the Coran in arabic you feel it' s not Human, and i' m not bullshiting you, this is one of the proves that the Coran has not been written by men, nobody ever could write something like that or even close, we just can' t , i hope you understand the word " can' t" , people tried over and over again and they didn' t came close.. yes the bible is well written but written in the human way.

Now according to history, our prophete was illiterate again this is a VERY important point, he is the one who brought the Coran, now if it' s not him then somebody should be a writter, you think that our prophete has fooled everybody that was around him, all of them are stupid people ? what 1400 ago men was not intelligent? you do know i hope that at that time we had great philosophers, scientists, poets and powerful people .. so Mohammed came, a very weak man because he was poor and illeterate, fooled eeeeeverybody for 40 years ( the coran was sent to mohamed at the age of 40) , do you think that' s possible or do we see a lot of shows on TV here ? do you think there were men behind mohamed who wrote the Coran and they chose mohamed because of the point that he is illiterate ? let' s not complicate things here man, When people think about religion and the people of the time, they think that the past is one frame of a second and that all people were stupid and intelligence has only appeared today.

Wroooong, many people question him, they asked a lot of questions, these people are around the prophete, he had friends , uncles cousins , ennemies, wives, those were around him everytime, i think what' s more logical is that Mohammed CANNOT fool everybody for all these years, not when the subject is the Coran, things could be easily discovered by hundreds of its enemies.

Agent this is a way to think about it, it' s a puzzle linked together, there is NO IRREFUTABLE proof, but there are many things that show the right direction with just a good reflection , you don' t need an irrefutable proof to believe otherwise GAME OVER, all this would not exist, Now god says he gave you everything you need to think about it all you want, he says you should do your homework and think about it to find the truth, and great minds will follow.

moreover, consider all the other scientific things that are revealed in the Coran, consider what has been told about mohamed what he said himself, he was indeed very wise and he had also his miracles that people have witness... put everything in one image and hopefuly you' ll think that god exist. no no don' t chose one and ban the others, this is the whole picture they are linked. the content of the coran , the skill of writing, Mohamed' s society, scientific proofs... everything i mentioned above

I' ll take your word for it. I' ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it sounds very poetic. But that' s way beyond the point. It' s not the writting skill that offends me, it' s the message. The qu' ran very plainly states that if you don' t follow us we will kill you. How can you justify this? .

now man at the time of the prophete, jews and christians were living among muslims, However they were paying higher taxes than the other muslims and they didn' t have some advantages, let' s put it that way , they didn' t have the green card... Long ago, the nation of islam was not based on race but on religion, if you are a muslim then you are a citizen with all your rights , if not then you are a foreigner... that' s like me when i went to the state, i paid several time the price of the tuition that other americans pay, this is not fair but that' s how it is, those who have the citizenship have many advantages than the others who only have a visa student... and th prophete said many times, and this is in his hadith, you should behave well with jews and christians and never force the religion on their throats... However, those who didn' t believe in god or pagans, well.. things could be quiet different for them.

i hope you read everything i wrote and you don' t skip

You actually believe in adam and Eve?

Yes i do believe in Adam and Eve, but the way it is written in the Bible, i don' t want to offend any christian here but we muslims always find it ridiculous tht god enter the paradise and asks adam and eve " where are you?" , this is soooo wrong and never such thing could be found in the Coran, he found them right away he didn' t look for anything, a god asks where are u?!! come on ! the story in a whole is similar with bible but the details are quiet different.

On another note , in the coran, god says that NO THING, nobody look like him as well. and one of the verses god says that he has no son and no parents, nobody creatd him.

Ginjirou you earn my respect, some stuff we can' t grasp as our mind are limited, or at least put that hypothesis, some dimensions are beyond what our brains can grasp.

People are [in general] products of their environment.

If my family was orthodox then i' d have been raised that way, but they' re not and religion was never imposed on me.

It' s like if somebody' s parents are conservative, ...that person will more than likely be conservative, and free will has nothing to do with it because this kind of stuff is embedded in your subconscious. Your surroundings in general have dictated your opinions and beliefs, and they will continue to do so until the day you die. You will have formed some opinions of your own ever since you had the ability to reason, but your ability to reason also has been tainted and molded by the environment which has surrounded you.

It' s common sense.

People are [in general] products of their environment.

If my family was orthodox then i' d have been raised that way, but they' re not and religion was never imposed on me.

It' s like if somebody' s parents are conservative, ...that person will more than likely be conservative, and free will has nothing to do with it because this kind of stuff is embedded in your subconscious. Your surroundings in general have dictated your opinions and beliefs, and they will continue to do so until the day you die. You will have formed some opinions of your own ever since you had the ability to reason, but your ability to reason also has been tainted and molded by the environment which has surrounded you.

It' s common sense.

indeed , but people change and they change believes, so we are influenced by our enviroment but that doesn' t mean we can' t change or on the contrary have more faith in whatever we believe... did you read what i wrote above or are u too big to read ?

No man that' s not beyond the point, that' s the whole point, the writinbg skills is beyond humans, when you read the Coran in arabic you feel it' s not Human, and i' m not bullshiting you, this is one of the proves that the Coran has not been written by men, nobody ever could write something like that or even close, we just can' t , i hope you understand the word " can' t" , people tried over and over again and they didn' t came close.. yes the bible is well written but written in the human way.

Now according to history, our prophete was illiterate again this is a VERY important point, he is the one who brought the Coran, now if it' s not him then somebody should be a writter, you think that our prophete has fooled everybody that was around him, all of them are stupid people ? what 1400 ago men was not intelligent? you do know i hope that at that time we had great philosophers, scientists, poets and powerful people .. so Mohammed came, a very weak man because he was poor and illeterate, fooled eeeeeverybody for 40 years ( the coran was sent to mohamed at the age of 40) , do you think that' s possible or do we see a lot of shows on TV here ? do you think there were men behind mohamed who wrote the Coran and they chose mohamed because of the point that he is illiterate ? let' s not complicate things here man, When people think about religion and the people of the time, they think that the past is one frame of a second and that all people were stupid and intelligence has only appeared today.

Wroooong, many people question him, they asked a lot of questions, these people are around the prophete, he had friends , uncles cousins , ennemies, wives, those were around him everytime, i think what' s more logical is that Mohammed CANNOT fool everybody for all these years, not when the subject is the Coran, things could be easily discovered by hundreds of its enemies.

Agent this is a way to think about it, it' s a puzzle linked together, there is NO IRREFUTABLE proof, but there are many things that show the right direction with just a good reflection , you don' t need an irrefutable proof to believe otherwise GAME OVER, all this would not exist, Now god says he gave you everything you need to think about it all you want, he says you should do your homework and think about it to find the truth, and great minds will follow.

moreover, consider all the other scientific things that are revealed in the Coran, consider what has been told about mohamed what he said himself, he was indeed very wise and he had also his miracles that people have witness... put everything in one image and hopefuly you' ll think that god exist. no no don' t chose one and ban the others, this is the whole picture they are linked. the content of the coran , the skill of writing, Mohamed' s society, scientific proofs... everything i mentioned above

quote:


I' ll take your word for it. I' ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it sounds very poetic. But that' s way beyond the point. It' s not the writting skill that offends me, it' s the message. The qu' ran very plainly states that if you don' t follow us we will kill you. How can you justify this? .

now man at the time of the prophete, jews and christians were living among muslims, However they were paying higher taxes than the other muslims and they didn' t have some advantages, let' s put it that way , they didn' t have the green card... Long ago, the nation of islam was not based on race but on religion, if you are a muslim then you are a citizen with all your rights , if not then you are a foreigner... that' s like me when i went to the state, i paid several time the price of the tuition that other americans pay, this is not fair but that' s how it is, those who have the citizenship have many advantages than the others who only have a visa student... and th prophete said many times, and this is in his hadith, you should behave well with jews and christians and never force the religion on their throats... However, those who didn' t believe in god or pagans, well.. things could be quiet different for them.

i hope you read everything i wrote and you don' t skip

ofcourse men can write like that.....

all religion is a veil pulled down over people heads, to tell them something powerful will punish them if they dont do what they are told.

its to stop people from seeing how fucking miserable they are, and that the next place will be better.

its to stop people asking difficult questions, because god fucking said so.


No offence!

I read it but i can' t possibly take it seriously. We weren' t created, we evolved from lower lifeforms. We didn' t co-exist with dinosaurs, there was no crossover point and the oldest human remains are only 160, 000 years old. The planet is over 4+ billion years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyboXCIVJY0


Please, take 15 min of your valuable times and watch that, this is From a scholar to all atheists

ofcourse men can write like that.....

all religion is a veil pulled down over people heads, to tell them something powerful will punish them if they dont do what they are told.

VX don' t change my words please, what i mean by NO MAN CAN write like it, i' m talking about the style which is Unhuman, do you understand that, it' s not exageration, no man could produce something like it.

anyway, the video talks about the answer that a muslim should answer an atheist, no i' m not a scholar, but this one is ... watch

at least guys at least, don' t be 100% suuuure that god does not exist like agent said, 100% !!! that' s way too much of conviction like saying the world is not flat.