Face it. Blu-ray gives a huge advantage. Games have so far not exceeded the storage limit of DVD9 simply because the devs have let the development become limited by it.
Now when Blu-ray offers more space developers can allow themselves to use space more freely so in time we will see a increasing need for more storage.
Some linear games can be put on several discs but in games where you might have to travel through the entire game world, switching discs won' t be very convenient. I think the PS3 is all about convenience. Everything from the free online and the silent cooling system to the slot loaded discs and the wi-fi.

It doesnt give a huge advantage, the space on the disc isnt half as limiting as budget. Games are getting more and more expensive to make, if something a bottleneck its that, and thats also one of the reasons why blu ray isnt really needed yet!

Yes it is.

You guys are ***ing pathetic. Developers know more about making games than any of you dumb ***s here, if they say space is an issue, then space is an issue. And no they are not being payed off by Sony to say that, the mentality of some of you guys here is just plain stupid.

UT III has like 50 fucking levels and CG movies. It' s one of a kind. Mark Rain said UT III would have trouble fitting on one disc, he said nothing about games in general. Obviously, having more space would be better but it' s hardly the bottleneck in the console. If PC games now can survive on one DVD then I' m not conserned about the 360. If I could improve one of the specs on the 360, the disc drive is the last thing I would change.

With regards to the 360 not having a HDD in all units, people seem to forget that the console only has 512MB of (slow) RAM. So during gameplay the 360 can only access that much data. There is no possible " function" beyond faster load times if the ram is always full and the disc is not.

The biggest weakness of every major console ever made is that they' re starved for ram. End of Story.

What people also seem to be forgetting is that the BluRay Drive in the PS3 is simply SLOWER than the 360 DVD drive. What good are uncompressed textures for you if you have to put the files twice on the disc to get decent loading times?

Who the hell are all these new nubcakes? Adam, IP check please.

And Utgardaloki, you are fucking stupid. If anyone pushes the 9GB limit it will not be Rockstar. GTA:San Andreas was just over 3GB, Oblivion is around 6, Mass Effect is still unknown but it will be huge and is only 1 disc. If Oblivion fits then something bigger is not needed. GTFO to gamestop forums and stay there.

Oblivion, and possibly Mass Effect, uses the same crappy texures and models for every area in the entire game making everything look basically the same. It' s like making ONE room and then re-arranging all the objects and changing just a few of the textures and voila, a new area.
With Blu-ray you can have much more freedom with variety in games. I' m no developer, but I doubt creating textures costs that much and even if they do cost much I think Sony are ready to pay that much just to prove that Blu-ray is useful and that' ll benefit the players because the games will be so much cooler.

UT III has like 50 ***ing levels and CG movies. It' s one of a kind.

No, it' s one of the first truly next-gen games. When other companies start making games they really had in mind for this gen, Blu-ray will be useful.

The discussion were the same when DVD' s were new. But in the end of last gen DVD' s provided to be quite useful.
In time you' ll see how great a bigger capacity disc is.

ORIGINAL: Evilkiller

What people also seem to be forgetting is that the BluRay Drive in the PS3 is simply SLOWER than the 360 DVD drive. What good are uncompressed textures for you if you have to put the files twice on the disc to get decent loading times?

No.

360 uses a 12x CAV drive but it can only read at 12x speed for around 15% of the outer disc. Move from the edge inwards and the access speed gets slower, all the way down to 5x on the inner ring meaning that the read speeds fluctuate pretty drastically but also that the average read speed will be around 8x.

Since most (all) games on 360 are dual layer, the 12x drive recieves a penalty for layer switch access and can only read at a maximum of 8x with a likely average of 6x.

The drive used in PS3 is a 2x Blu-Ray CLV and in actual fact has a comparable read speed to the drive used in 360 (when reading at 8x). If a game was pressed on a 50GB disk then the Blu-Ray drive wouldn' t recieve the dual layer penalization 360 does on all of it' s games and would continue to read at the same speed as a 25GB disk.

Load times will depend on the developer in the majority of cases. Optimization, clever caching and authoring are bigger factors than the disk speed will ever be.

Unless Sony up the drive speed ofcourse. Then they' d have an advantage in the newer models, ...but i can' t see it happening.

And Utgardaloki, you are ***ing stupid. If anyone pushes the 9GB limit it will not be Rockstar. GTA:San Andreas was just over 3GB

…that’s fabulous. And what ever your logic you’ve painted yourself into a corner. San Andreas spans over 3GB you say. GTA 4 contains a much larger city than the one in San Andreas. And it’s much more detailed (assets wise) sporting less repetition. And it contains much more detailed geometry for all the different assets. And it contains much more detailed textures for all of those assets. And the textures are layered with more kinds of different maps than San andreas. And every map is more detailed than in San Andreas. And it contains a much larger register of animations than San Andreas. And each animation is more detailed than in San Andreas. And it contains more detailed audio than San Andreas. And the AI is probably ever so slightly more advanced than the short circuit of a sentence that you had addressed to me here above.

Oh and one last thing.

Houser says the lack of a guaranteed hard drive and the smaller storage space of the DVD format is limiting the game' s progress.

immortaldanmx… Dan Houser is the creative VP at Rockstar Games.




STRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIKE!!!




Try to think faster than you curse smart ass.

Do you know what compression means?

No… o_O

You have to be a fidelity expert to tell the difference between a MP3 and a cd if the compression is done right, also are you going to notice that when the action in the game is going on?

Are you able to hear the difference between compressed and uncompressed surround sound within intense movies when using a fine set-up of equipment even though you’re not an expert? Can a human perceive a sound at over 100Khz even though he can’t directly hear it? Studies say yes and that’s the reason new lossless hi fidelity audio technology was developed. You don’t need uncompressed sound to enjoy a game but you don’t need 16.8 million colours for the graphics either. It would be easier to spot and react to the action if every object were painted in one colour (green for friends and red for foes and something else for the back ground). No fuss.

I have yet to see a PC game spanning over a single DVD.

Vanguard.

Ship the game on 2 discs ? ;)

You didn’t read my first post did you ;)

And my talk about GTA 4 was only an example regarding the potential problem with a random access game containing seamless environments each spanning more than 9 GB. The PC mmorpg Vanguard uses random access to over 17GB of game data. Now why don’t you just forget GTA 4 and replace it with this game instead for every discussion had in this thread.

Good night

Just like GOW can' t be done in the PS3, I don' t see the problem here.

I admit, the GTA statement was stupid, and sorry for attacking you personally. I just get all worked up after browsing threads of bias and stupidity(mostly gamestop)

Wow! You don' t see that very often. It doesn' t matter much whether you agree with me or not but having someone apologise like you did is pretty damned descent of you. Apology accepted. Thanks immortaldanmx.