The biggest games so far on the PS3 would require 3 DVD discs on the 360

That has been shot down several times, its nothing but sony propaganda and uncompressed sound and extreme use of FMV.

Nice try though!

The biggest games so far on the PS3 would require 3 DVD discs on the 360.

There' s no game on PS3 that has assets (sans uncompressed audio/video) totaling more than the space on a DVD9. There' s also no game on 360, with the exception of Blue Dragon (which uses HD video), that spans more than one disc.

But what about non-sequential games that unfold in a non-fixed chronological pattern that break the 9GB limit of a DVD disc?

That game is supposed to contain a city that happens to take up more than 9GB (in its original form) all the while the access to those “more than 9GB” has to remain completely random at any given time.

The problem is that this game needs to retain random access to any part within one single file that is larger than 9GB.

You' re over complicating things.

You certainly have a point, but as long as the game assets don' t total more than 9GB then the only issue would be load times. The issue Rockstar are facing is that not every 360 has a harddrive and they want to support all models. Unfortunately that might not be possible and the game may " require" a harddrive.

MS will be providing developers with their newest compression technology early next year and it wouldn' t surprise me if it was first used in GTA IV.

Unfortunately that might not be possible and the game may " require" a harddrive.

Unfortunately? No, its about damn time. If you bought a Core, you either should be shot, or shouldve waited till you could afford a Pro, simple as that. I mean, FFS, a Pro was only $60 more(you had to buy a $40 memory card with the core, so that was almost half the difference).

TBH, it seem(s)(ed) like a step backwards for MS to go from every console with an HDD and saying it was needed(xbox) to " offering a choice" (360).

I dont want my gaming experience crippled because some little kid couldnt convince his parents to buy a Pro or a HDD

Wow, great post, makes sense. You don' t post here very often. Were are you from?

Thanks. I’m from Sweden.

And further more is read speed on the PS3 not limited to Blu-ray access times or stream speed since every thing can be buffered on the mandatory hard disc. This makes the read speed on PS3 potentially much faster than what is possible on the 360.

360 can do this too, why do people think the 360 has to have a HDD on all units to support this feature? In Oblivion for example, the game supports using the HDD to cache game data for faster loading times. If you don' t have a HDD you can still play the game but you have to endure longer loading times. Having a HDD on all units vs. some units is meaningless. A game can support a HDD for the consoles with it and not support it for the games that do not.

Yes you are right the 360 can do this as well but the problem is still that not everyone has a hard disc. This means that if you aren’t careful with what type of game you’re making those without a HD might have to endure very long and frequent loading times for games that require constant reads. This is hampering to the process of using the HD for games on the 360. And just like with the example of 50GB vs. 9GB there are game build instances where you simply need a HD in order for things to stay fluid. So developers aren’t keen on building a game that truly needs it since a large part of the market would be left out in the cold.

([please wait while all 360 users are swapping discs: loading will commence in 30 seconds])

That makes no sense. They would divide the single from the multiplayer before they split the multiplayer.

Actually this problem is what has caused the map problems (on line) for Unreal tournament 3 on 360. So yes it makes sense. If you want to be able to play all maps online then you’ll need a HD to buffer those that don’t fit on one single DVD since swapping discs between different maps isn’t accaptable.

quote:

The biggest games so far on the PS3 would require 3 DVD discs on the 360

That has been shot down several times, its nothing but sony propaganda and uncompressed sound and extreme use of FMV.

Nice try though!

Well that wasn' t the point now was it? But since you brought it up... try putting uncompressed sound and the likes on a DVD for a large game and see what happens. What? Uncompressed sound doesn' t matter? I thought you might.

Cheers mate

Many codeshops have been using the " excuse" that they don' t want to use lossy compression algorithms because they' re striving to create the best visually looking game they possibly can. But while i believe yes uncompressed sound, video, textures et al are great and everything, they haven' t yet been " proven" superior to their lossy compressed counterparts.

You do realize you sound like N64 fanboys from 10 years ago?

9GB space limit is an issue, period. Get over it.

9GB space limit is an issue, period. Get over it.

No it' s not.

The space limit on the DVD9 is not what the problem is, the problem is MS still offering the Core. If you get rid of the core, then everyone who owns a 360 has a HDD and therefore all of a sudden the space on the DVD9 is not a problem anymore.

Devs either owned my Sony(Guerilla) or making exclusive games on the PS3 will take this, and turn it around to make it look as though the 360 is so far below the PS3 to the consumer. Now the uneducated consumer will believe the PR BS, but the educated consumer will know that if MS does get rid of the Core, then the space on the DVD9 is not a problem anymore. Everyone owns a PC so you know this to be true.

I do have one question though. If these PS3 games are taking up so much space, and are so huge, then why are the gameplay time(hours of gameplay) no different? If this is a stupid question I am sorry, but I understand most of this but not why a game can be so huge and need such a larger capacity disc, but not be a longer game.

9GB space limit is an issue, period. Get over it.

Its not really.

Mark Rein is the only one with a legitimate complaint, but how many levels in a FPS game are actually used? Barely 50% usually!

Yes it is.

You guys are ***ing pathetic. Developers know more about making games than any of you dumb ***s here, if they say space is an issue, then space is an issue. And no they are not being payed off by Sony to say that, the mentality of some of you guys here is just plain stupid.

Mark Rein is a PR monkey. He knows fuck all about game development.

PS3 is the lead (console) platform for UTIII and his pro Blu-Ray comments are PR bullshit.

If the assets fit on the disk then there' s no issue other than possible longer loading times, and i' d love to see a game that doesn' t use uncompressed sound or video that takes up 9GB.

Yes it is.

You guys are ***ing pathetic. Developers know more about making games than any of you dumb ***s here, if they say space is an issue, then space is an issue. And no they are not being payed off by Sony to say that, the mentality of some of you guys here is just plain stupid.

While more space is always a good thing, it doesnt mean its needed.

You can choose to fall for the propaganda you are fed, it just makes you look stupid, but we all know thats true anyway!

The ones feeding you propaganda are MS aligned developers.

Why does every neutral developer prefer more space, and everyone aligned to MS just so happens to think DVD9 is actually more than they need, lol?

Can someone point me in the direction of this endless stream fo complaints for more space? I' ve seen very few neutral developers if any at all complain about it. Actually I can' t remember the last time hearing that 9gigs was a major issue. The only people fighting for or against it are the gamers themsevles as far as I can tell.

Why does every neutral developer prefer more space, and everyone aligned to MS just so happens to think DVD9 is actually more than they need, lol?

More space is as i said always good. The devs like it so they can go lazy with compression, maybe use one disk for the extra content.

But for games it isnt needed. They say it is, but no one has proved it yet.

The cost of a next gen drive isnt justified yet. The only reason Sony stuffed it in the PS3 is to trojan it out to people, i think they realize if they dont win the format war they will have a major problem.

Can someone point me in the direction of this endless stream fo complaints for more space? I' ve seen very few neutral developers if any at all complain about it. Actually I can' t remember the last time hearing that 9gigs was a major issue. The only people fighting for or against it are the gamers themsevles as far as I can tell.

There is nothing to fight or argue over. As long as 9GB is all you need for your game then there is no problem. When the requirements surpass the limit you are how ever in for some kind of trouble. You will have to compress data which in the end will take you so far into lossy terretory that it will start to show regardless of whether it' s about visual or audiable content. Yes GTA 4 will work on 360. But its nearing the limit of how much data can be sqeezed onto 9GB of storage. With GTA 5 Rockstar is surely out to up the ante over the previous installment. Will they be able to sqeeze even more data onto those 9GB of storage when it comes to that? I don' t know.
The 360 and PS3 are hardly at the end of their life cycles and when games get more advanced and containing more content than what we have seen so far then 9GB will not be enough in some occasions. And the reason we haven' t seen many games truly break the 9GB limit is because one of the major consoles doesn' t support it. PCs are how ever starting to truly move into territory far above 9GB. So will PS3. What the 360 will do when that truly happens... when you can' t get even compressed files to fit onto 9GB is anyone' s guess.

Yes GTA 4 will work on 360. But its nearing the limit of how much data can be sqeezed onto 9GB of storage. With GTA 5 Rockstar is surely out to up the ante over the previous installment. Will they be able to sqeeze even more data onto those 9GB of storage when it comes to that? I don' t know.

Do you know what compression means?

You have to be a fidelity expert to tell the difference between a MP3 and a cd if the compression is done right, also are you going to notice that when the action in the game is going on?

In addition compressed textures speed up loadtimes.

I have yet to see a PC game spanning over a single DVD.

In the case of all single player games, its not going to kill anyone changing cd halfway through the game.

Time will tell if it was necesarry but my guess its not

Ship the game on 2 discs ? ;)

EDIT: I was adressing Utgardaloki, of course.

Face it. Blu-ray gives a huge advantage. Games have so far not exceeded the storage limit of DVD9 simply because the devs have let the development become limited by it.
Now when Blu-ray offers more space developers can allow themselves to use space more freely so in time we will see a increasing need for more storage.
Some linear games can be put on several discs but in games where you might have to travel through the entire game world, switching discs won' t be very convenient. I think the PS3 is all about convenience. Everything from the free online and the silent cooling system to the slot loaded discs and the wi-fi.

Propaganda? No, it' s common sense.

ORIGINAL: Evilkiller

Ship the game on 2 discs ? ;)

EDIT: I was adressing Utgardaloki, of course.

No because as he already correctly pointed out; in a game like GTA where the world isn' t linear and chronological, swapping between discs to move between one part of the city and another just isn' t pratical.

They' ll just use high ratio compression and it' ll be fine.

I' m interested to see whether the PC version of UTIII is multi-DVD. I guess we' ll find out in November.