" By and large, I don' t see the Wii being home to a sizeable mature playerbase outside of some of the early adopters. I see it as being very, very broad with a family focus. If there is a " core player base" on Wii (and it might be so broad, there might be no such thing as " core" ), within two years, it will probably be largely a younger player (or at least younger than 360 or PS3)."

" I think you' re going to see some amazing Wii titles from Capcom. I just suspect that they won' t all be blood and guts and they will likely be much more broadly focused. That also doesn' t mean, our games in the Will will be ' kiddie' . Those are two very different extremes. We' re likely to be somewhere in the middle with new products."
Source

...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?

IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

I don' t know, I think Wii will be a lot better then Gamecube as it is bound to have a larger marketshare. Larger marketshare means publishers are more willing to support the console with higher budget games. Just don' t expect the best Wii games to comare with the best 360/ps3 games due to wiis limitations.

IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

Initially, that is the thoughts of many, but you have to think about it like this. When the GC came out, a lot of people were pissed about the N64 not having much support, and the ps2 was already a very very well selling console. This time around, the ps3 hasn' t sold much, and costs much more, therefore the Japanese will have the option of buying a Wii and not being left out of all the big japanese games, at least for now. Also, the xbox360 though selling well, doesn' t appeal as much to Wii type gamers, as its greatest focus is online, and FPS.

Also, the Wii finally uses proper media formats. No more cartridges or stupid tiny discs(it makes sense on a handheld, not a flipping console). The controller is also gonna help it sell well. If they do Mario right, I will buy one, if they don' t, like the GC versions, I won' t bother. Nintendo f' d up the Cube, and seem to be doing better with the Wii this time around.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Very true. I was concerned about this after I had the N64 for a year or two. Goldeneye was one of the only more mature games on it.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

Hated Killzone, Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around), Warhawk...hate flying games...always have, Halo 3 yeah very true, Crackdown Got me there, Gears...amazing game, Call of Duty...you got it on the Wii...not 2 but 3...which was good enough.

Mario is always going to be great unless Nintendo becomes like Sega. Zelda Yep, Warioware is getting repetitive already, Monkeyball...they f' ed up the Wii version.

I think you are forgetting what AMAZING Mature games started on the cube. Resident Evil 4, Hell the remake of Resident Evil was one fo the creepiest games I have played since Silent Hill 2. Eternal Darkness: Sanity' s Requiem you can' t say this wasn' t an amazing game, Killer 7 isn' t amazing but it was a nice mature title.

Aside from Manhunt 2 and The Darkness (Which is said to contain 7 endings all which are extremely depressing) there aren' t many mature games, that is true, but if you are more focused on mature when looking at a game and not whether it is actually a good game...then I gotta say there is an increase in the ignorance of the gamer populous.

I' m a mature game nut, don' t get me wrong. But if I can play Halo 2 for 8 hours a day, then turn around and play Mario for 8 hours...does it really fucking matter?

Both games are great and forcing a label on one doesn' t matter, really it should do more to help them. In a generation where the game industry is under heavy scrutiny I think that Nintendo is at the forefront...showing the thompsons of the world that there are wholesome, good, dare I say it, kid friendly games out there.

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?

A " kiddie" game would be one aimed squarely at kids. A " kiddie" game would have play mechanics and themes too simple to hold the interest of an adult for very long. Like a simple platformer based on a cartoon...pick one, they' re all kiddie.

A " broadly focused" game would be something akin to a " family" movie. Interesting enough for adults, but not grotesque or violent. Zelda is a good example.

Capcom is basically just saying that Nintendo' s target audience hasn' t changed, so the games they will release for the Wii will be for that target audience. Nintendo has never been concerned with getting people to be " hardcore gamers" . They don' t give a damn about impressing the tech savvy. Remember, they called the first system " Famicom"

Hated Killzone, Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around), Warhawk...hate flying games...always have, Halo 3 yeah very true, Crackdown Got me there, Gears...amazing game, Call of Duty...you got it on the Wii...not 2 but 3...which was good enough.

Killzone wasn' t a great game, but it was one of their top sellers. Resistance isn' t any more bland than Gears of War. And as a fanboy, I have to insist that CoD never came to the Wii. The only redeeming part of that title is multiplayer, & they stripped that out.[:' (]

I' ll finish post later, gotta go.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

You missed one Resident Evil 4 (GC)..that speaks for itself.

I think the discussion of a targeted age is irrelevant.
The Wii, and the games Nintendo creates, mainly appeal to a certain kind of gamers, not gamers of a certain age.
But even though Nintendo hasn' t targeted younger players as their core player base, I think that in the end most Wii owners will be very young, thanks to the fact that parents will still have the impression that Nintendo is a kiddie company. So when parents buy machines for their kids, they' ll prefer buying the Wii.
I am surpised to hear such a comment from Capcom, or any developer, since it' s actually up to them to shape the future Wii user base through the software they create.

Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around),

The game has a good story and great levels with interesting weapons. It is anything but bland. I have played almost every FPS in the last 10 years, and the only ones I enjoyed more than Resistance were Halflife, Halflife 2 and Call of Duty 2 would almost tie it. You really have to play it before you know what its like. Also, the demo doesn' t give you a good idea of what it is.

As far as the Wii, and GC before it go, they are both like the N64 before it. Great Nintendo developed games, and not much else. Sure they have a couple third party games, but none you can' t get on other systems.

Now, I know I might get flamed for this, and told I' m not a true gamer, but the Wii needs to be more powerful. I' m not a graphics nut, and I still prefer games that are deep, well written, and very playable to a game with amazing graphics.

However, the way I look at it is this : There are only so many good game developers, or for that matter, each developer only ever manages so many good games. Now, you have all these other games out there which are decent, and fun to rent or buy when they get cheaper, but a sizeable part of them being okay is that the graphics are good. Now you can tell me I' m not a true gamer, but when it comes down to it, even a really pretty looking decent game can hold my interest for a couple days. You compare it to an ugly game with decent gameplay and it' s not going to do as well. Another issue I will have is this. I don' t know about you, but I don' t wanna spend $75 for each controller (wii-mote + nunchuk) so I can play games with my friends. I mean, thats $225, and add in batteries, and you are spending a lot on controls.

All this said, I will eventually buy a Wii, but I' m gonna own an Xbox360, ps3, and good PC before it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?



A " kiddie" game would be one aimed squarely at kids. A " kiddie" game would have play mechanics and themes too simple to hold the interest of an adult for very long. Like a simple platformer based on a cartoon...pick one, they' re all kiddie.

A " broadly focused" game would be something akin to a " family" movie. Interesting enough for adults, but not grotesque or violent. Zelda is a good example.

Capcom is basically just saying that Nintendo' s target audience hasn' t changed, so the games they will release for the Wii will be for that target audience. Nintendo has never been concerned with getting people to be " hardcore gamers" . They don' t give a damn about impressing the tech savvy. Remember, they called the first system " Famicom"

....ok, i agree with your definition of a " broadly focused" game, but could you give a specific example of a " Kiddie" game?

I think you are forgetting what AMAZING Mature games started on the cube. Resident Evil 4, Hell the remake of Resident Evil was one fo the creepiest games I have played since Silent Hill 2. Eternal Darkness: Sanity' s Requiem you can' t say this wasn' t an amazing game, Killer 7 isn' t amazing but it was a nice mature title.

Killer 7 was a simutaneous PS2/Cube release, and the newest of the games you mentioned are over two years old. There really hasn' t been a good title from Nintendo directed at a more mature userbase in 2 YEARS.

And I' m not talking about Mature here as in the ESRB' s usual " gore, cussing & tits" business. Mature as in something that requires a little more than minigame playing skills and an appreciation of bright-palleted colors.

You wouldn' t say that the 360 is an amazing console for platformers because Sonic & Kameo were released on it would you? 2 or 3 good mature games, out of a slew of party-games, dumbed-down PS2 ports and movie tie-in games does not make Nintendo a very even footed company.

If Sony got anything right last generation it was their broad selection of software. They weren' t totally devoted to shooters, nor was it only possible to get platformers.

Thread title should be renamed to: “I wish Nintendo stopped making Nintendo games”


Also, how the hell can one define what a mature gamer wants? As everybody has different tastes..

How can one say Nintendo games are kid’s games, yet more adults play and own Nintendo consoles/games than kids themselves?


Nintendo games are aimed for everyone. I see much more adults than kids loving Zelda, warioware ETC.

Fact is, it’s the kids that are desperately trying to get their hands on the latest gory thriller, FPS or GTA clone, while the mature gamers go for the ones that hold the best game play values (Nintendo’s strong point).

You also forgot No More Heroes (a Suda 51 game that' s actually exclusive this time) and Umbrella Chronicles. I don' t think that the Wii is repeating the mistake of Gamecube in not having enough Mature titles. It' s only the start of its lifecycle.

Nintendo games are aimed for everyone.

Therein lies the problem, because when you appeal to everyone, you sometimes end up pandering to the lowest common denominator. I' ll reiterate, because I don' t think people are understanding my view of mature.

And I' m not talking about Mature here as in the ESRB' s usual " gore, cussing & tits" business. Mature as in something that requires a little more than minigame playing skills and an appreciation of bright-palleted colors.

Your average 10 year old doesn' t have a refined palette, which makes it hard to grasp themes like:

MGS 3- Nuclear Destruction.
Shadow of the Colossus- Gaming as art.
Beyond Good & Evil- Opressive Governments (Despite a cartoony backdrop)

Your average 10 year old wants:
Gears of War- Good, but not deep or mature.
GTA- Groundbreaking, but not emotionally charged at all.
Pokemon- Bestseller, with absolutely no motivation.

I dunno if you' re catching my drift here guys. I' m not saying Cube isn' t awesome, I absolutely adored mine. I' m simply pointing out the fact that Nintendo needs to broaden their horizons if they want to break away from their juvenile steryotype.

Killer7 fits into that catagory (as No More Heroes probably will, as well), and Beyond Good & Evil was released on the Gamecube. Eternal Darkness also could fit into that category. It didn' t have a central theme like what you' re talking about, but the historical analysis in the game and psychological aspects of it deepen the game. These are old examples, I know, but so are the ones you used.

How many games like what you' re talking about exist, anyway? I can' t think of many.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishonen


....ok, i agree with your definition of a " broadly focused" game, but could you give a specific example of a " Kiddie" game?

Well, it' s hard for me to speak specifically because I don' t buy kiddie games. But I' m mostly talking about movie franchise games like the game based on Disney' s " Cars" movie. No adult without kids is seriously interested in a simplistic racer based on a movie about talking cars, even if they enjoyed the movie. They even designed a " kids" mode within the game.
Better example, " Madagascar" . That game is so simple my 7-year-old niece finished it in less than a day.

Nintedo' s own games aren' t " kiddie" , they' re family-friendly. There' s a huge difference.

How many games like what you' re talking about exist, anyway? I can' t think of many.

I can think of a lot of them...but at the moment, honestly for Nintendo the three franchises that stand out to me are LoZ, Metroid, and Mario.

A lot of gamers should pick up on subtleties...games you suggested Eddie are really simplisitic in nature, yes the themes are mature and kids may not focus on them, but the themes are easy to decipher.

With games like Mario you have a huge amount of themes transpiring all in the open but hidden. Bowser is oppressive, the kingdom is in utter ruin due to the absence of their princess. A ton of the mario franchise focuses on the ol' super hero takes on masses of armies to save princess. That is the focal theme which people seem way too drawn to. If you look at the game in a narrower context it is a very dark game. Think about it, the only time you see inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom are when they are lurking in small havens (I.E. Castle to say " The princess is in another castle (I' m just hiding here)" , or small villages) Because of Bowser' s armies, which have pretty much slaughtered the majority of the inhabitants and now control the lands. It really isn' t one of those themes or tones that jump out at you, because honestly you are confused by the happy music. Was it the intention of the creator to make that theme, I can' t say, but I can say that Theme is perceptive so really it doesn' t matter.

Legend of Zelda has always steered towards a strong theme, hell Twilight Princess was such a dark game, yet kid' s eat it up and forget about anything aside from the " cool fights" .

Metroid has some major themes involved, a central one that is consistent isn' t really apparent however.

Eternal Darkness really was an ode to the sanity of man, thus the requiem for sanity.

Kirby is the only game I honestly look at and say...wow that is cheery...because it is, there are no subtleties you never actually " kill" a boss. Kirby is the only kid' s game I know Nintendo makes.

Also I didn' t take Shadow of the Colossus as being " gaming as art" it was beautiful, but the theme of the story was far stronger than that. It really is definitive of what man would do not only for love, but to hold onto those you cherish.