Wii is for " younger players" , says Capcom

" By and large, I don' t see the Wii being home to a sizeable mature playerbase outside of some of the early adopters. I see it as being very, very broad with a family focus. If there is a " core player base" on Wii (and it might be so broad, there might be no such thing as " core" ), within two years, it will probably be largely a younger player (or at least younger than 360 or PS3)."

" I think you' re going to see some amazing Wii titles from Capcom. I just suspect that they won' t all be blood and guts and they will likely be much more broadly focused. That also doesn' t mean, our games in the Will will be ' kiddie' . Those are two very different extremes. We' re likely to be somewhere in the middle with new products."
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...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?

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IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

I don' t know, I think Wii will be a lot better then Gamecube as it is bound to have a larger marketshare. Larger marketshare means publishers are more willing to support the console with higher budget games. Just don' t expect the best Wii games to comare with the best 360/ps3 games due to wiis limitations.

IMO i think the wii will do like the game cube did. It will only have 5 or so good games that you cant get anywhere else, but they will probably be really good games

Initially, that is the thoughts of many, but you have to think about it like this. When the GC came out, a lot of people were pissed about the N64 not having much support, and the ps2 was already a very very well selling console. This time around, the ps3 hasn' t sold much, and costs much more, therefore the Japanese will have the option of buying a Wii and not being left out of all the big japanese games, at least for now. Also, the xbox360 though selling well, doesn' t appeal as much to Wii type gamers, as its greatest focus is online, and FPS.

Also, the Wii finally uses proper media formats. No more cartridges or stupid tiny discs(it makes sense on a handheld, not a flipping console). The controller is also gonna help it sell well. If they do Mario right, I will buy one, if they don' t, like the GC versions, I won' t bother. Nintendo f' d up the Cube, and seem to be doing better with the Wii this time around.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Very true. I was concerned about this after I had the N64 for a year or two. Goldeneye was one of the only more mature games on it.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

Hated Killzone, Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around), Warhawk...hate flying games...always have, Halo 3 yeah very true, Crackdown Got me there, Gears...amazing game, Call of Duty...you got it on the Wii...not 2 but 3...which was good enough.

Mario is always going to be great unless Nintendo becomes like Sega. Zelda Yep, Warioware is getting repetitive already, Monkeyball...they f' ed up the Wii version.

I think you are forgetting what AMAZING Mature games started on the cube. Resident Evil 4, Hell the remake of Resident Evil was one fo the creepiest games I have played since Silent Hill 2. Eternal Darkness: Sanity' s Requiem you can' t say this wasn' t an amazing game, Killer 7 isn' t amazing but it was a nice mature title.

Aside from Manhunt 2 and The Darkness (Which is said to contain 7 endings all which are extremely depressing) there aren' t many mature games, that is true, but if you are more focused on mature when looking at a game and not whether it is actually a good game...then I gotta say there is an increase in the ignorance of the gamer populous.

I' m a mature game nut, don' t get me wrong. But if I can play Halo 2 for 8 hours a day, then turn around and play Mario for 8 hours...does it really fucking matter?

Both games are great and forcing a label on one doesn' t matter, really it should do more to help them. In a generation where the game industry is under heavy scrutiny I think that Nintendo is at the forefront...showing the thompsons of the world that there are wholesome, good, dare I say it, kid friendly games out there.

" What most people need to learn in life is how to love people and use things instead of using people and loving things."
~ Unknown ~

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?

A " kiddie" game would be one aimed squarely at kids. A " kiddie" game would have play mechanics and themes too simple to hold the interest of an adult for very long. Like a simple platformer based on a cartoon...pick one, they' re all kiddie.

A " broadly focused" game would be something akin to a " family" movie. Interesting enough for adults, but not grotesque or violent. Zelda is a good example.

Capcom is basically just saying that Nintendo' s target audience hasn' t changed, so the games they will release for the Wii will be for that target audience. Nintendo has never been concerned with getting people to be " hardcore gamers" . They don' t give a damn about impressing the tech savvy. Remember, they called the first system " Famicom"

Hated Killzone, Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around), Warhawk...hate flying games...always have, Halo 3 yeah very true, Crackdown Got me there, Gears...amazing game, Call of Duty...you got it on the Wii...not 2 but 3...which was good enough.

Killzone wasn' t a great game, but it was one of their top sellers. Resistance isn' t any more bland than Gears of War. And as a fanboy, I have to insist that CoD never came to the Wii. The only redeeming part of that title is multiplayer, & they stripped that out.[:' (]

I' ll finish post later, gotta go.

Nintendo isn' t doing jack sqat to break away from their Kiddie title, why should I give them credit for something they didn' t earn?

Mario/Zelda/WarioWare/MonkeyBall VS Killzone/Resistance/Lair/Warhawk/Halo 3/Crackdown/Gears of War/Call of Duty 2...
The games speak for themselves.

You missed one Resident Evil 4 (GC)..that speaks for itself.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

I think the discussion of a targeted age is irrelevant.
The Wii, and the games Nintendo creates, mainly appeal to a certain kind of gamers, not gamers of a certain age.
But even though Nintendo hasn' t targeted younger players as their core player base, I think that in the end most Wii owners will be very young, thanks to the fact that parents will still have the impression that Nintendo is a kiddie company. So when parents buy machines for their kids, they' ll prefer buying the Wii.
I am surpised to hear such a comment from Capcom, or any developer, since it' s actually up to them to shape the future Wii user base through the software they create.

Resistance looks bland (can' t speak on behalf of actual gameplay, that always could turn me around),

The game has a good story and great levels with interesting weapons. It is anything but bland. I have played almost every FPS in the last 10 years, and the only ones I enjoyed more than Resistance were Halflife, Halflife 2 and Call of Duty 2 would almost tie it. You really have to play it before you know what its like. Also, the demo doesn' t give you a good idea of what it is.

As far as the Wii, and GC before it go, they are both like the N64 before it. Great Nintendo developed games, and not much else. Sure they have a couple third party games, but none you can' t get on other systems.

Now, I know I might get flamed for this, and told I' m not a true gamer, but the Wii needs to be more powerful. I' m not a graphics nut, and I still prefer games that are deep, well written, and very playable to a game with amazing graphics.

However, the way I look at it is this : There are only so many good game developers, or for that matter, each developer only ever manages so many good games. Now, you have all these other games out there which are decent, and fun to rent or buy when they get cheaper, but a sizeable part of them being okay is that the graphics are good. Now you can tell me I' m not a true gamer, but when it comes down to it, even a really pretty looking decent game can hold my interest for a couple days. You compare it to an ugly game with decent gameplay and it' s not going to do as well. Another issue I will have is this. I don' t know about you, but I don' t wanna spend $75 for each controller (wii-mote + nunchuk) so I can play games with my friends. I mean, thats $225, and add in batteries, and you are spending a lot on controls.

All this said, I will eventually buy a Wii, but I' m gonna own an Xbox360, ps3, and good PC before it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

...only have one question, and it concerns the second quote: what exactly is a *quote* kiddie */quote* game, and what exactly is a *quote* broadly focused */quote* game?



A " kiddie" game would be one aimed squarely at kids. A " kiddie" game would have play mechanics and themes too simple to hold the interest of an adult for very long. Like a simple platformer based on a cartoon...pick one, they' re all kiddie.

A " broadly focused" game would be something akin to a " family" movie. Interesting enough for adults, but not grotesque or violent. Zelda is a good example.

Capcom is basically just saying that Nintendo' s target audience hasn' t changed, so the games they will release for the Wii will be for that target audience. Nintendo has never been concerned with getting people to be " hardcore gamers" . They don' t give a damn about impressing the tech savvy. Remember, they called the first system " Famicom"

....ok, i agree with your definition of a " broadly focused" game, but could you give a specific example of a " Kiddie" game?

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I think you are forgetting what AMAZING Mature games started on the cube. Resident Evil 4, Hell the remake of Resident Evil was one fo the creepiest games I have played since Silent Hill 2. Eternal Darkness: Sanity' s Requiem you can' t say this wasn' t an amazing game, Killer 7 isn' t amazing but it was a nice mature title.

Killer 7 was a simutaneous PS2/Cube release, and the newest of the games you mentioned are over two years old. There really hasn' t been a good title from Nintendo directed at a more mature userbase in 2 YEARS.

And I' m not talking about Mature here as in the ESRB' s usual " gore, cussing & tits" business. Mature as in something that requires a little more than minigame playing skills and an appreciation of bright-palleted colors.

You wouldn' t say that the 360 is an amazing console for platformers because Sonic & Kameo were released on it would you? 2 or 3 good mature games, out of a slew of party-games, dumbed-down PS2 ports and movie tie-in games does not make Nintendo a very even footed company.

If Sony got anything right last generation it was their broad selection of software. They weren' t totally devoted to shooters, nor was it only possible to get platformers.

Thread title should be renamed to: “I wish Nintendo stopped making Nintendo games”


Also, how the hell can one define what a mature gamer wants? As everybody has different tastes..

How can one say Nintendo games are kid’s games, yet more adults play and own Nintendo consoles/games than kids themselves?


Nintendo games are aimed for everyone. I see much more adults than kids loving Zelda, warioware ETC.

Fact is, it’s the kids that are desperately trying to get their hands on the latest gory thriller, FPS or GTA clone, while the mature gamers go for the ones that hold the best game play values (Nintendo’s strong point).

You also forgot No More Heroes (a Suda 51 game that' s actually exclusive this time) and Umbrella Chronicles. I don' t think that the Wii is repeating the mistake of Gamecube in not having enough Mature titles. It' s only the start of its lifecycle.

Nintendo games are aimed for everyone.

Therein lies the problem, because when you appeal to everyone, you sometimes end up pandering to the lowest common denominator. I' ll reiterate, because I don' t think people are understanding my view of mature.

And I' m not talking about Mature here as in the ESRB' s usual " gore, cussing & tits" business. Mature as in something that requires a little more than minigame playing skills and an appreciation of bright-palleted colors.

Your average 10 year old doesn' t have a refined palette, which makes it hard to grasp themes like:

MGS 3- Nuclear Destruction.
Shadow of the Colossus- Gaming as art.
Beyond Good & Evil- Opressive Governments (Despite a cartoony backdrop)

Your average 10 year old wants:
Gears of War- Good, but not deep or mature.
GTA- Groundbreaking, but not emotionally charged at all.
Pokemon- Bestseller, with absolutely no motivation.

I dunno if you' re catching my drift here guys. I' m not saying Cube isn' t awesome, I absolutely adored mine. I' m simply pointing out the fact that Nintendo needs to broaden their horizons if they want to break away from their juvenile steryotype.

Killer7 fits into that catagory (as No More Heroes probably will, as well), and Beyond Good & Evil was released on the Gamecube. Eternal Darkness also could fit into that category. It didn' t have a central theme like what you' re talking about, but the historical analysis in the game and psychological aspects of it deepen the game. These are old examples, I know, but so are the ones you used.

How many games like what you' re talking about exist, anyway? I can' t think of many.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishonen


....ok, i agree with your definition of a " broadly focused" game, but could you give a specific example of a " Kiddie" game?

Well, it' s hard for me to speak specifically because I don' t buy kiddie games. But I' m mostly talking about movie franchise games like the game based on Disney' s " Cars" movie. No adult without kids is seriously interested in a simplistic racer based on a movie about talking cars, even if they enjoyed the movie. They even designed a " kids" mode within the game.
Better example, " Madagascar" . That game is so simple my 7-year-old niece finished it in less than a day.

Nintedo' s own games aren' t " kiddie" , they' re family-friendly. There' s a huge difference.

How many games like what you' re talking about exist, anyway? I can' t think of many.

I can think of a lot of them...but at the moment, honestly for Nintendo the three franchises that stand out to me are LoZ, Metroid, and Mario.

A lot of gamers should pick up on subtleties...games you suggested Eddie are really simplisitic in nature, yes the themes are mature and kids may not focus on them, but the themes are easy to decipher.

With games like Mario you have a huge amount of themes transpiring all in the open but hidden. Bowser is oppressive, the kingdom is in utter ruin due to the absence of their princess. A ton of the mario franchise focuses on the ol' super hero takes on masses of armies to save princess. That is the focal theme which people seem way too drawn to. If you look at the game in a narrower context it is a very dark game. Think about it, the only time you see inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom are when they are lurking in small havens (I.E. Castle to say " The princess is in another castle (I' m just hiding here)" , or small villages) Because of Bowser' s armies, which have pretty much slaughtered the majority of the inhabitants and now control the lands. It really isn' t one of those themes or tones that jump out at you, because honestly you are confused by the happy music. Was it the intention of the creator to make that theme, I can' t say, but I can say that Theme is perceptive so really it doesn' t matter.

Legend of Zelda has always steered towards a strong theme, hell Twilight Princess was such a dark game, yet kid' s eat it up and forget about anything aside from the " cool fights" .

Metroid has some major themes involved, a central one that is consistent isn' t really apparent however.

Eternal Darkness really was an ode to the sanity of man, thus the requiem for sanity.

Kirby is the only game I honestly look at and say...wow that is cheery...because it is, there are no subtleties you never actually " kill" a boss. Kirby is the only kid' s game I know Nintendo makes.

Also I didn' t take Shadow of the Colossus as being " gaming as art" it was beautiful, but the theme of the story was far stronger than that. It really is definitive of what man would do not only for love, but to hold onto those you cherish.

" What most people need to learn in life is how to love people and use things instead of using people and loving things."
~ Unknown ~

Jeezus, we' re getting deep here guys.

Killer7 fits into that catagory (as No More Heroes probably will, as well), and Beyond Good & Evil was released on the Gamecube. Eternal Darkness also could fit into that category. It didn' t have a central theme like what you' re talking about, but the historical analysis in the game and psychological aspects of it deepen the game. These are old examples, I know, but so are the ones you used.

How many games like what you' re talking about exist, anyway? I can' t think of many.

Whoops, scratch Good & Evil off my list then, and I' ll give you cred for Eternal Darkness because it' s Lovecraft inspired. But really, how many titles has Nintendo created that make you think, " Wow. That' s a little deep for a videogame" ? I' m not sure about you, but despite a really interesting perspective on the facist Mushroom Kingdom, that' s just not what I think about when I play.

I' ve got highest hopes for No More Heroes, but it' s being advertised like Red Steel was, & that worries me. The sort of " ZOMG Volinz on t3h Wii" is being pushed a smidgen too far IMO.

Legend of Zelda has always steered towards a strong theme, hell Twilight Princess was such a dark game, yet kid' s eat it up and forget about anything aside from the " cool fights" .

That' s what I' m talking about! Perfect example by the way, thanks (no sarcasm intended). Zelda has some very deep themes if you' re willing to spend the time to look for them, but back to the " least-common-denominator" , the majority of people won' t pick them up. I like games that make me think, & challenge me beyond reflexes & puzzle solving. I want to walk away from a good game like I did when I first saw The Matrix. I dunno, it' s the best way to describe it I can think of.

There' s nothing wrong with Nintendo games, they' re usually of the highest quality, but sometimes you want to be MADE to think about stuff a little.

Teh panic, it' s already 6:30 am over here.

Well, it' s hard for me to speak specifically because I don' t buy kiddie games. But I' m mostly talking about movie franchise games like the game based on Disney' s " Cars" movie. No adult without kids is seriously interested in a simplistic racer based on a movie about talking cars, even if they enjoyed the movie. They even designed a " kids" mode within the game.
Better example, " Madagascar" . That game is so simple my 7-year-old niece finished it in less than a day.

Nintedo' s own games aren' t " kiddie" , they' re family-friendly. There' s a huge difference.

...both Cars and Madagascar are surely more cheap movie tie-ins than they are games aimed at a younger audience? ...and what would be a example of a good " kiddie" game?

....i can see how " family friendly" is probably the best description generally though..

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I' ve got highest hopes for No More Heroes, but it' s being advertised like Red Steel was, & that worries me.

I haven' t even seen No More Heroes advertised. Are you talking about the trailer? That seemed fine to me.

I like games that make me think, & challenge me beyond reflexes & puzzle solving.

If that' s what you' re talking about, Eddie, then I have to agree with f3hunter. This is kinda turning into, " I wish Nintendo didn' t make Nintendo games."

Nintendo is famous for making a certain type of game. A game you can pick up at any time, any day, and play. No trying to remember delicate plot points or subtle insinuations that occured two hours ago and just now became important.

To do this, Nintendo makes the games simple. It has to. If it didn' t, the games wouldn' t sell as much (which you said). You can' t ask them to make a game that won' t sell as well. That' s ludicrous.

Other companies do make games like this, but these are precious few. For the reason already stated, they don' t sell as well. I do enjoy these types of games and wish there were more of them (alot more), but Nintendo won' t and shouldn' t abandon a successful formula.

Also, think about what would happen if Nintendo did suddenly change game types. Not only would the general audience be surprised/pissed, but the game wouldn' t make sense. The Mario Brothers movie provides an interesting example (though I can' t believe I' m using it). The movie was an experiment, and one that failed. Even if the story and the actors had been good, would you like it? Most people said about Spirits Within that the main reason they didn' t like it more was, " It wasn' t Final Fantasy."

As for new IPs, I don' t know. I' m not sure if Nintendo could make a deep, subtle game. I also don' t really know if I want them to try. Their type of games are fine, and as long as they try to get other developers to fill the gap on their console, then it should be fine.

ORIGINAL: Bishonen


...both Cars and Madagascar are surely more cheap movie tie-ins than they are games aimed at a younger audience? ...and what would be a example of a good " kiddie" game?

....i can see how " family friendly" is probably the best description generally though..

Well, " kiddie" games can' t be defined as " good" by anyone' s stardards over the age of 10. They are designed to keep the kid' s attention with familiar characters and simple, non-challenging gameplay.
My niece finished Madagascar in an afternoon, but she played it again and again because she liked it. And her little brother watched her every second. That' s fine, they' re kids. They' re supposed to like it. It was made for people that age.
The fact that I was sitting on the couch ready to pull out my own eyeballs was really irrelevant. The target audience, the kids, were truly pleased. So i guess you could call that a " good" game.



I think the Nintendo " kiddie" label only exists amongst those who call themselves " mature gamers" . Arrogant pricks who think they know what everyone should be enjoying because they' re so HARDCORE. The average person sees Nintendo as the Disney of videogame companies. Safe, wholesome entertainment for everyone.

Nintendo has Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime>Everything
The end

There' s nothing wrong with Nintendo games, they' re usually of the highest quality, but sometimes you want to be MADE to think about stuff a little

FFS, get your head outta MS' s backside and THINK about what your saying:

Braintraining / Wario Ware /

Two games that were made from ground up for this exact reason.



Nintendo > All.

FFS, get your head outta MS' s backside and THINK about what your saying:

Cheap shot F3h, I' ve had a cube/PS2 waaay longer than I' ve had an Xbox 360.

Also, I never owned an original Xbox. Also ignoring the fact that I didn' t list any Xbox games when I was talking about " deep" titles. Microsoft could deal with some more emotionally engaging titles. I didn' t include them because they' ve set their image far from kid friendly, which isn' t necessarily a good thing. Just because I don' t like Nintendo' s image, doesn' t mean that Microsoft' s is anything amazing either.

A game you can pick up at any time, any day, and play. No trying to remember delicate plot points or subtle insinuations that occured two hours ago and just now became important.

But I like that.

The Mario Brothers movie provides an interesting example (though I can' t believe I' m using it). The movie was an experiment, and one that failed. Even if the story and the actors had been good, would you like it?

But I liked that too.

Nintendo > All.

I could tell you to get your head out of your ass too though couldn' t I? I don' t like favoring one company. It makes me sound irrational, & unwilling to change. Certain companies do things better, and certain companies do less of certain things. (I won' t say any company has the inability to make good things).

as long as they try to get other developers to fill the gap on their console, then it should be fine.

That' s what I' m asking for. I should also add the fact that they should be exclusive.

Nintendo has Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime>Everything
The end

That sir, is undebatable. You' ve completely shut my rationale down. Less than a year now dude, just, just gotta keep telling that to myself.

>The Punisher has hijacked this thread, expect it to be punished in 20 min.

(Watching the punisher (original with Dolph Lundgren))

I really have nothing to add aside from the fact Final Fantasy Tactics was one of the deepest (themewise) games I have played that was below a M rating.

" What most people need to learn in life is how to love people and use things instead of using people and loving things."
~ Unknown ~

Up until now, Nintendo consoles have always focussed on kids, but this in no way makes me enjoy any of their games any less then I do a fantastic adult title and it certainly shouldn’t for anyone else either. They generally make fantastic titles that are simply too good to be played solely by their young target audience and if people don’t play them because of their saccharine sweet exterior, then it’s their loss, it‘s that simple. I’m a big Nintendo fan and wish them all the best with their new tactics for the Wii.

Up until now, Nintendo consoles have always focussed on kids, but this in no way makes me enjoy any of their games any less then I do a fantastic adult title and it certainly shouldn’t for anyone else either.

Certainly not, & I don' t enjoy their titles any less because of that. I just want a little variety, that' s all.

>The Punisher has hijacked this thread, expect it to be punished in 20 min.

(Watching the punisher (original with Dolph Lundgren))

LOL, the one movie you pretend to hate, but you really secretly want to see it again.

I really have nothing to add aside from the fact Final Fantasy Tactics was one of the deepest (themewise) games I have played that was below a M rating

. Y' know, I wasn' t a big fan of it, but yeah, I could definately see where you' re coming from there.

FFS, get your head outta MS' s backside and THINK about what your saying:

Nintendo > All.

Teh sighzorz

I wonder why Nintendo would want to focus on children. It' s obvious that it' s a bad business model, especially after seeing how PS1 was a success thanks to Sony' s focus on mainstream consumers.
I have to say that the games Nintendo makes are just as, or even more, enjoyable to adults as they are for kids. But the consoles on the other hand are poorly designed. Both the N64 and the GCN looked like plastic toys, not exactly something you' d like to show off in your livingroom.
They did a better design job with the Wii though and if they can get enough support from 3d party developers then they can change their image from kiddy to, at least, neutral.
My fear is that 3rd party developers will not dare to develop Wii games with focus on " mature gameplay" . But seeing how good RE4 did on the Gamecube most developers should realise that making " mature" games on the Wii will probably be very profitable.
Nintendo seems to be looking to create more adult games themselves, being more specific: Project H.A.M.M.E.R. and Disaster: Day of Crisis.
Hopefully they' ve got more up their sleeves but personally, I' m happy with what they' ve got right now.
I just hope 3rd party developers will join Nintendo this time around.
I think that what makes Nintendo' s games appear more kiddie is that they focus on pure fun through gameplay, while other developers might be trying to focus more on story, graphics and attitude.
For a guy like me, who puts gameplay and pure fun above everything else, Nintendo is without a doubt the best developers out there.

My fear is that 3rd party developers will not dare to develop Wii games with focus on " mature gameplay" . But seeing how good RE4 did on the Gamecube most developers should realise that making " mature" games on the Wii will probably be very profitable.

IMO the Wii is the first console in a while that Nintendo has a chance to make mature games for. The N64 was largely bought by younger gamers, the Gamecube even more so(both have exceptions in Japan). The Wii however has gotten into more mainstream households thanks to its wii-mote. If they don' t capitalize on this opportunity then it will be pretty obvious that they don' t want to make or be part of more mature games.

For a guy like me, who puts gameplay and pure fun above everything else, Nintendo is without a doubt the best developers out there.

I would say that they produce more fun games with good gameplay than some of my favorite developers, but then again they are bigger. However, as a guy that puts the amount of good games that are pure fun and have good gameplay above everything else, Nintendo still hasn' t convinced me to drop my cash on the Wii.

I wonder why Nintendo would want to focus on children. It' s obvious that it' s a bad business model, especially after seeing how PS1 was a success thanks to Sony' s focus on mainstream consumers.

It' s not a bad business model. In some ways it' s the same as the McDonald' s business model, which is to " hook ' em when they' re young" and make lifelong loyal customers. (Please note that I consider Nintendo products to be much higher quality than McDonald' s products.) I know quite a few young parents who grew up with the NES and have bought Gamecubes and Wiis for their kids (and themselves) now.

I think the narrow variety of styles and attitude that are considered to be " mature" by gamers are really only appealing to young men in their late teens and early-to-mid 20s (and, frankly, older men who have settled into a state of arrested development). The way I see it, Nintendo isn' t so much focused on " kiddie" games as it is on games that have more timeless and ageless appeal.

Lots of gamers like to go around and around about which console is gaining the most market share. But Nintendo has developed a business model in which that aspect doesn' t matter, because they are making far and away more net profit than any other console manufacturer. That ultimately is why they don' t feel a whole lot of pressure from older gamers clamoring for more " mature" themes.

So, their current business model really can' t be criticized too harshly because it' s clearly quite successful. And this is an acknowledgement coming from someone who despises Nintendo as a business (not their creative staff) because they built their empire on illegal business practices in the 1980s. Frankly I' d like to see them go out of business, but they' re crafty f*ckers.

Well, " kiddie" games can' t be defined as " good" by anyone' s stardards over the age of 10. They are designed to keep the kid' s attention with familiar characters and simple, non-challenging gameplay.

I have to disagree to a certain extent. Surely as someone older than 10 you can see an obvious difference in quality between Barney the Dinosaur on the one hand, and The Muppets on the other hand. Both are aimed at kids, but not only are The Muppets just obviously way better, there is also content in there that can be enjoyed and appreciated by older people, whereas Barney just makes you want to rip out your own throat and flog yourself with it.

But... eh... uh... okay that makes sense.

And this is an acknowledgement coming from someone who despises Nintendo as a business (not their creative staff) because they built their empire on illegal business practices in the 1980s. Frankly I' d like to see them go out of business, but they' re crafty f*ckers.

Okay Zoy. I don' t want to belive any of that, but it' s interesting, can you elaborate?


STORYTIME!

All right, gather ' round children. Let grandpa Zoy tell you about the late 1980s, when Nintendo held an unprecedented 90% U.S. market share for home video game consoles, trailed distantly by Sega and the last remaining vestiges of the original company called Atari.

As we all know, the NES wasn' t technically the most powerful of the consoles then available, but its vast library of games, most of which were by 3rd party developers and publishers, was one of its main appeals. But it wasn' t that 3rd party companies didn' t want to develop for the SMS, it was that they were prevented from doing so by Nintendo through practices that were later determined to be illegal in a series of antitrust lawsuits settled by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) in 1991 -- the first such action by the FTC in over a decade.

Nintendo had already established certain shady practices -- older gamers will recall a so-called " chip shortage" circa 1988 that turned out to be completely trumped-up -- in order to maintain an iron-fist style of control over both 3rd parties and retailers.

The " Nintendo Seal of Approval" was one such aspect of control that 3rd party companies bristled against, since it restricted their creative freedom by limiting their annual number of releases -- for example, Konami subsequently created the imprint Ultra in order to be able to release more games than Nintendo was allowing them to. In another notable case, Atari Games (at this point a separate company than the one that made the home consoles) reverse-engineered the NES cartridge interface and created an imprint, Tengen, that released games without the Nintendo Seal of Approval -- including licensed Sega ports! (Nintendo later tangled with Tengen/Atari Games of the coveted Tetris license, as Atari Games had the license for coin-ops and Nintendo claimed to have it for home consoles.)

On the retail end, the " chip shortage" enabled Nintendo to effectively price-fix the market and prevent retailers from lowering the prices of games to compete with each other. This was ultimately ruled illegal by the FTC, but in a brilliantly slimy move, Nintendo ' remedied' the situation around 1991 by issuing $5 coupons to people who had previously bought their games at what were determined to be artificially inflated prices. It was a brilliantly slimy move because these were not rebates -- they were coupons that could only be redeemed by purchasing an additional NES cartridge! In effect, Nintendo spun their punishment to encourage consumers to buy even more from them.

Nintendo' s reign of scuz was eventually ended as 3rd party companies emerged from their exclusivity windows (which, unlike the typical sorts of 6-month or 1-year exclusivity windows we see these days, back in the 8-bit days lasted several years -- long enough to stifle the competition from the Master System) and began developing for the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive.

Look at the difference between the market share of the 8-bit era, and the market shares of console manufactures for each subsequent era. The difference is that Nintendo both bent and broke the law in the 8-bit era. The outcome has always been very different when they have had to compete on a level playing field. (Relatively level, that is. This is capitalism we' re talking about, after all.)

Anyway, hope you enjoyed storytime. You can find more details by googling on terms like Nintendo + antitrust + nes.

Adam has this Nintendo documentary that mentions some of the bad stuff Nintendo has done. It was that BBC documentary Outrageous fortunes and some of the guys in it are former Kikzio staff members or something..
You could download it from Kikizo a while ago but I don' t know if you still can. Adam?

Wow,

That' s... interesting

Thanks Zoy.