..ok Hideo, i know MG is pi$$ing you, cuase you' ve been making those games for the last 20 years already, but if you think you can pre-empt a sympathy vote for possibly f*cking up MGS4, then you drastically underestimate (some) of your admirers...

....what am i talking about? well, did you lot read Kikizo' s short regarding Kijoma-san' s views on games as an artform? ....no?? ..well here' s what he said:

" Art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art."

....wha? ...art radiates itself..

" If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it' s art. But video games aren' t trying to capture one person. A video game should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that video game."

...rubbish... ...art doesn' t try to capture anyone.... ...it' s up to the audience to be captured.... ...service you say huh?.... ...WELL ISN' T ART A SERVICE??? ....people EXPECT to be wowed by commercial creativity - that' s why they pay loads of cash for it' s SERVICE - d' oh!

...plus you WILL go insane if you try to please EVERYONE all of the time.... ..but if you are trying that then what does that say about your MGS4?.... will snake be able to play golf with tiger woods whilst collecting rare pokemon' s??....

" It' s something of a service. It' s not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that video game is an artistic style, a form of art."

...what?... have you just said that video games ARE art??..
...make your friggin mind up!!!

Well the translation and the form of words japanese people use is messed up sometimes...

Anyway,kojima can say wtf he want he makes great games :P
However i hardly agree with his strange comments,like when he said next gen should not be about better graphic...
I get what he mean but...
Some people just wanna be heard and special...
and make no sense.

And btw lets talk about the passion and the fascination about those comments....


oh fukk it i just want my 700th post.

No, Bishonen is right in a sense in that Kojimas games (well, MGS, MGS2 and MGS3 and the Z.O.E games) have been more like interactive feature films than your average game experience.

I' ve always thought that he should probably direct a CGI movie.

My point though is that because he directs his games and has them pan out as film would, then he MUST see them as art. Surely?

He' s threatened to move away from MGS before (with Snake Eater) but didn' t and he doesn' t really have to direct it if he doesn' t want to. I would presume that SONY has paid him quite considerably to stay on for MGS4 since they need it. Right now it' s the biggest thing they have for PS3!

He has wanted to move on for the past few years and do other things. By all accounts, him saying he doesn' t see videogames as art is strange (and he can speak English too so i doubt it' s just a mis-interpretation).

He won' t however f*ck MGS4 up as he has a reputation to maintain. He' s a very talented storyteller (though MGS2 went stupid towards the end). MGS4 is the only reason i am interested in PS3 at all right now (although i have my own theories about the future of the machine).

Well kojima himself said he wanted to make a movie...
But in MGS it was a perfect mix...it made for a perfect experience.
However MGS2 was a bit to much...for me it was fine...but i get the people who hated it,and did not saw it even as a game :O

The character change wasn' t a great move but it allowed people to see Snake from a different perspective. The biggest issue i have with MGS2 is where Kojima-san tailed off towards the end of the game and the plot got mixed with his own revelations about life. For the most part the story was captivating, but the heavy emphasis on philosophical meanderings was too much for me and ruined the last quater of the game.

LONG LIVE RAIDEN!!

May he completely replace Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid 5


*runs for his life*

I don' t know why people hate raiden so much :P
Sure he stole the time from SNAKE which we all missed but he wasn' t as horrible as every god damn player says :)
However the relationship talk in the late game and the end was quite boring.

Hey I had NO complaints about Raiden, I actually liked the pretty boy quite a bit. I don' t have anywhere near the type of attachment to Solid Snake that most gamers seem to have.

I think in Metal Gear Solid 5 they should have a scene where Raiden visits Solid Snake' s grave site

My point though is that because he directs his games and has them pan out as film would, then he MUST see them as art. Surely?

....Exactly....

...so what' s happened for him to seemingly have such muddled views on the subject?.. ...I' m thinking that maybe he' s frustrated with the industry... ..that he feels forced to provide some-sort of Metal Gear Service to the industry and it' s legion of fans...

....of course true art is a labour of love ....and if he' s not enjoying producing the 4th installment, then perhaps he' s just trying to say that it won' t really be worth while.... something cobbelled together to get people off his back...

...kinda like John Carpenter' s half @$$ed Halloween 2 sequel...

those quotes you have in your post man are from interview about " are games art?"

It has nothing to do with MGS4.

Kojima believes that games are not art - because they are made to appeal to lots of people not the other way around.

See if Solidus Snake lost his ' left' eye and Big Boss (supposedly dead since Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. You played him in MGS3) lost his ' right' eye, then who is it in the MGS4 concept art with the eye patch covering hs ' right' eye?



2nd from the right.

And what is the purpose of the device coverond Solid Snakes ' left' eye? Do you think you' ll be able to see the robo dog thingy through it?

Would be pretty sad,if snake died before big boss,but kojima said the games are all about genes,sharing.reproudcing etc.
i forgot how and what he said,but each game represenate something about genes.
Like sharing,reproducing,and passing on.

If Big Boss is the genetic father of Solid Snake, and the character i was directing you to is Big Boss then i can' t see how that works unless Solid Snake sides with him, Big Boss dies and leaves Solid to carry on the fight.

If Big Boss still intends to use Metal Gear to overthrow the Philosophers/Patriots then i guess it would kind of make sense but Solid supposedly killed him.

The character in the concept art looks really skinny when comapared to Solid, but how old would Boss be anyway?

Of course video games are art. If only becasue they contain individual art pieces to their own right. How are character models not art? How are gameplay mechanics not art? How is the music score not art? If you ask me video games contain so much art that by default they are the highest form of art. Nothing compares to video games. Of course not all games are art many are just junk, for example Monkey Ball is junk and Oblivion is art.

Monkey Ball (Gamecube original) was pure genius!!!

Oblivion' s not out so lets not judge it, ...it could be bad, or have major issues (as highlighted by Gangsta in a separate thread). I' m looking forward to it though!

Games have become an art form, but they' re not art themselves. I guess different people will view it different ways.

Perspective.

art makes you look at things in many ways and different lights to really appricate whats it about.

Shadow of the Colossus, had the same impact on me, the streching country unto the horizon with a large creature peacefully walking it, is an art. Climbing the creature and killing it is a game. The music and direction it takes you with each and every one of your kills is art, every time you kill one, its kills a part of you. The music alone protrays this.

Games can be art. Just dont expect Gears Of War to be put up beside The Mona Lisa. No matter how good it looks.

I don' t want to ' look' at it, i want to bloody ' play' it.

Videogames are an ' artform' , they are not ' art' !!

.....the best videogames are unquestionably as artistic as the best films... ..perhaps more, as game druggie said....

...and 21st century art does not hang on walls in galleries... it spins at a 100 rpm in your CD player... or mesmerises you in your home cinema get up.....

...Kijoma cannot fool us in to thinking that he does not believe this.....

..... if only those share-holder worried exec' s would back the f*ck up and let the geniuses get on with their work.....

if i understand well kojima , then even music and cinema today are not art because they are produced to make money, they are produced to attract a huge number of people, and so are games....

no of course so many games are pure crap, but one has only to admire ICO or shadow of colosseus and would say that these games are art

Raiden was not that bad, of course i hated the idea when i thought i won' t play Snake afterwars;, but by the end of the game i start liking him, he should defintly appear on MGS4 hopefuly, i guess by that time he would have a lot of experience and hopefuly get rid of that girly look...