What Drugs is Kijoma-san on??

..ok Hideo, i know MG is pi$$ing you, cuase you' ve been making those games for the last 20 years already, but if you think you can pre-empt a sympathy vote for possibly f*cking up MGS4, then you drastically underestimate (some) of your admirers...

....what am i talking about? well, did you lot read Kikizo' s short regarding Kijoma-san' s views on games as an artform? ....no?? ..well here' s what he said:

" Art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art."

....wha? ...art radiates itself..

" If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it' s art. But video games aren' t trying to capture one person. A video game should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that video game."

...rubbish... ...art doesn' t try to capture anyone.... ...it' s up to the audience to be captured.... ...service you say huh?.... ...WELL ISN' T ART A SERVICE??? ....people EXPECT to be wowed by commercial creativity - that' s why they pay loads of cash for it' s SERVICE - d' oh!

...plus you WILL go insane if you try to please EVERYONE all of the time.... ..but if you are trying that then what does that say about your MGS4?.... will snake be able to play golf with tiger woods whilst collecting rare pokemon' s??....

" It' s something of a service. It' s not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that video game is an artistic style, a form of art."

...what?... have you just said that video games ARE art??..
...make your friggin mind up!!!

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

Well the translation and the form of words japanese people use is messed up sometimes...

Anyway,kojima can say wtf he want he makes great games :P
However i hardly agree with his strange comments,like when he said next gen should not be about better graphic...
I get what he mean but...
Some people just wanna be heard and special...
and make no sense.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

And btw lets talk about the passion and the fascination about those comments....


oh fukk it i just want my 700th post.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

No, Bishonen is right in a sense in that Kojimas games (well, MGS, MGS2 and MGS3 and the Z.O.E games) have been more like interactive feature films than your average game experience.

I' ve always thought that he should probably direct a CGI movie.

My point though is that because he directs his games and has them pan out as film would, then he MUST see them as art. Surely?

He' s threatened to move away from MGS before (with Snake Eater) but didn' t and he doesn' t really have to direct it if he doesn' t want to. I would presume that SONY has paid him quite considerably to stay on for MGS4 since they need it. Right now it' s the biggest thing they have for PS3!

He has wanted to move on for the past few years and do other things. By all accounts, him saying he doesn' t see videogames as art is strange (and he can speak English too so i doubt it' s just a mis-interpretation).

He won' t however f*ck MGS4 up as he has a reputation to maintain. He' s a very talented storyteller (though MGS2 went stupid towards the end). MGS4 is the only reason i am interested in PS3 at all right now (although i have my own theories about the future of the machine).

Well kojima himself said he wanted to make a movie...
But in MGS it was a perfect mix...it made for a perfect experience.
However MGS2 was a bit to much...for me it was fine...but i get the people who hated it,and did not saw it even as a game :O

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

The character change wasn' t a great move but it allowed people to see Snake from a different perspective. The biggest issue i have with MGS2 is where Kojima-san tailed off towards the end of the game and the plot got mixed with his own revelations about life. For the most part the story was captivating, but the heavy emphasis on philosophical meanderings was too much for me and ruined the last quater of the game.

LONG LIVE RAIDEN!!

May he completely replace Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid 5


*runs for his life*

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I don' t know why people hate raiden so much :P
Sure he stole the time from SNAKE which we all missed but he wasn' t as horrible as every god damn player says :)
However the relationship talk in the late game and the end was quite boring.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Hey I had NO complaints about Raiden, I actually liked the pretty boy quite a bit. I don' t have anywhere near the type of attachment to Solid Snake that most gamers seem to have.

I think in Metal Gear Solid 5 they should have a scene where Raiden visits Solid Snake' s grave site

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

My point though is that because he directs his games and has them pan out as film would, then he MUST see them as art. Surely?

....Exactly....

...so what' s happened for him to seemingly have such muddled views on the subject?.. ...I' m thinking that maybe he' s frustrated with the industry... ..that he feels forced to provide some-sort of Metal Gear Service to the industry and it' s legion of fans...

....of course true art is a labour of love ....and if he' s not enjoying producing the 4th installment, then perhaps he' s just trying to say that it won' t really be worth while.... something cobbelled together to get people off his back...

...kinda like John Carpenter' s half @$$ed Halloween 2 sequel...

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

those quotes you have in your post man are from interview about " are games art?"

It has nothing to do with MGS4.

Kojima believes that games are not art - because they are made to appeal to lots of people not the other way around.

See if Solidus Snake lost his ' left' eye and Big Boss (supposedly dead since Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. You played him in MGS3) lost his ' right' eye, then who is it in the MGS4 concept art with the eye patch covering hs ' right' eye?



2nd from the right.

And what is the purpose of the device coverond Solid Snakes ' left' eye? Do you think you' ll be able to see the robo dog thingy through it?

Would be pretty sad,if snake died before big boss,but kojima said the games are all about genes,sharing.reproudcing etc.
i forgot how and what he said,but each game represenate something about genes.
Like sharing,reproducing,and passing on.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

If Big Boss is the genetic father of Solid Snake, and the character i was directing you to is Big Boss then i can' t see how that works unless Solid Snake sides with him, Big Boss dies and leaves Solid to carry on the fight.

If Big Boss still intends to use Metal Gear to overthrow the Philosophers/Patriots then i guess it would kind of make sense but Solid supposedly killed him.

The character in the concept art looks really skinny when comapared to Solid, but how old would Boss be anyway?

Of course video games are art. If only becasue they contain individual art pieces to their own right. How are character models not art? How are gameplay mechanics not art? How is the music score not art? If you ask me video games contain so much art that by default they are the highest form of art. Nothing compares to video games. Of course not all games are art many are just junk, for example Monkey Ball is junk and Oblivion is art.

Monkey Ball (Gamecube original) was pure genius!!!

Oblivion' s not out so lets not judge it, ...it could be bad, or have major issues (as highlighted by Gangsta in a separate thread). I' m looking forward to it though!

Games have become an art form, but they' re not art themselves. I guess different people will view it different ways.

Perspective.

art makes you look at things in many ways and different lights to really appricate whats it about.

Shadow of the Colossus, had the same impact on me, the streching country unto the horizon with a large creature peacefully walking it, is an art. Climbing the creature and killing it is a game. The music and direction it takes you with each and every one of your kills is art, every time you kill one, its kills a part of you. The music alone protrays this.

Games can be art. Just dont expect Gears Of War to be put up beside The Mona Lisa. No matter how good it looks.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I don' t want to ' look' at it, i want to bloody ' play' it.

Videogames are an ' artform' , they are not ' art' !!

.....the best videogames are unquestionably as artistic as the best films... ..perhaps more, as game druggie said....

...and 21st century art does not hang on walls in galleries... it spins at a 100 rpm in your CD player... or mesmerises you in your home cinema get up.....

...Kijoma cannot fool us in to thinking that he does not believe this.....

..... if only those share-holder worried exec' s would back the f*ck up and let the geniuses get on with their work.....

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

if i understand well kojima , then even music and cinema today are not art because they are produced to make money, they are produced to attract a huge number of people, and so are games....

no of course so many games are pure crap, but one has only to admire ICO or shadow of colosseus and would say that these games are art

Raiden was not that bad, of course i hated the idea when i thought i won' t play Snake afterwars;, but by the end of the game i start liking him, he should defintly appear on MGS4 hopefuly, i guess by that time he would have a lot of experience and hopefuly get rid of that girly look...

Errr, he IS gonna be in MGS4, he' s in the concept art. And yes, he still looks like a girl!

Meryl, Vamp, Ocelot, Otacon are all in, and it looks like Big Boss (who was supposedly killed during ' Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake' , and who you played as in MGS3) is gonna make a return, along with maybe Fortune too.

Games can be art. Just dont expect Gears Of War to be put up beside The Mona Lisa. No matter how good it looks.

Gears of War will never be art - it' s made by people who ain' t no artists.Games like Okami , Viewtiful Joe , Zelda , Shenmue and so on - deliver artistic values to gamers.

Games that have high artistic values don' t appeal to many " gamers" .
Games that lack those values can be amazing games without them.

There' s nothing more artistic in games than the design/main concept - like katamari damacy for instance.

there you have it - that' s what I think :)

Word, that was some great lines GaNgStA.

I havent played Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, but i`ve read about it and as far as i can understand, the military have the remains of Big Boss, and thats why the incident on shadow moses appeared, because liquid wanted the remains of Big Boss.. But then again, this is MGS and whatever it is impossible/possible, could happen.. and wouldnt big boss be kind of old? since he was in his late 50`s or something like that when they used his DNA to create Liquid and Solid snake?

And as we all have seen, Snake looks really old in the Trailer of MGS 4 (maybe because of the Foxdie) but still.. if snake is that old then how old would Big Boss be?

Oh and one more thing, i`ve starred on that picture for some time now, and im not 100% sure, but isn`t Raiden holding a baby?

Yeah, but then if they had his ' remains' they could just have cloned him again.

And yes Raiden is holding a baby. At the end of MGS2 you/he find/s out that his girlfriend is pregnant.

Oh.. I must have missed that, yeah they could have cloned him, but then it wouldnt be Big boss? Just another Liquid or Solid, oh well, time will tell

No, both Liquid and Solid were engineered, they' re not direct clones.

It is possible that Big Boss survived, it' d be nice if it was actually him and he was older than Solid. The character art of him there shows him as being skinny, slim, ...whatever, so he could be fairly old. He could have even had his remains fitted into some sort of cyborg frame or whatever.

I' m hoping Liquid fucks up the Patroits plans through Ocelot and saves the day...

EDIT: What did everyone think of Snake Eater?

Alright, yeah, you seem to know a lot more than i do behind all this. Yeah it would be neat with the Real Big Boss fighting Solid or something.. But i find it hard that they could keep the real one alive that long, and if they would`ve cloned him it have to be several years before even the Second MGS game, since a Clone doesnt just grow up in a day.. but by the pictures he seems really old, so it may very well be the real one.

But maybe there could be another survivor of the Les Enfantes Teribles project than just Solidus, that may look like the boss? Who knows? Would be a little lame though to repeate the same thing all over again

Brings me to the idea that it would be really cool if they did a Remake of the two first games, it would be really nice to meet Grey Fox before he became that Cyborg Ninja.

-SPOILER-

About Snake Eater, it was a great game, especially the ending, i really loved it. When he stands by the Boss` Grave and salutes or whatever it`s called.. Fantastic. Best ending yet in a MGS Game. Altough i like the first MGS the most, it had such a great feeling to it.

In that picture Raiden is holding a clone of Big Boss!! He will now teach him the ways of the Raiden, and exact his revenge for them killing his pregnant wife!!

HaHaHa!!

Fantasy is F.U.N.!!

Anyway, it' ll be cool to see how the story pans out. They need to do like Shunmue II on the Xbox, and include a primer disc. For all of us who don' t know what the hell is going on in the Metal Gear world. I haven' t played a metal gear since..., well, Metal Gear! On the NES!! Funny, too, ' cause I have MGS 2: SOL (<-- Now THAT' S funny!) on PS2, AND MGS 2: Substance on the Xbox!

I think that the conversation Otacon and Snake have in MGS4 trailer means the old guy is just Snake.

People wonder why is snake so old and otacon young as ever?
There were some theories about snakes faster aging caused by genetic engeneering

(you can clone somebody but he' s cell will be as old as the ones you used to clone him - that persons age will catch up quickly with the " donors" age)

Who knows - I know one thing for sure - RAIDEN SUCKS , I HATE this punk-ass BITCH.He ruined MGS2 for me (that and those silly plot twists at the end).

The TANKER part was off tha hook and then ...yeah ...Raiden

I do however apreciate the idea of showing Snake from different perspective.

Yeah i think Raden was a terrible move. They set everything up (with the great trailers) and it looked like you' d be playing as Snake (the tanker mission was superb), ...THEN they make you play as bloody wussy Raiden! Urgh!

The Snake from the MGS4 trailer is definately Solid Snake and he and Otacon are still attempting to bring down the Patriots (aka..the La Li Lu Le Lo, aka..the Philosophers).

The Patriots are based on the secret and supposedly real New World Order (aka..the Illuminati). They control America and pick the Presidents etc...

Anyway, from the concept art we know Vamp, Meryl, Raiden, Ocelot, Otacon & Solid will definately be involved. It looks like Big Boss (not Boss), who' s supposed to be dead and who we played as in MGS3 will be back and it looks like Fortune survived too. The character who looks like Fortune could be Naomi Hunter who tried to kill Solid with FOXDIE near the end of MGS1, she got jailed but was rescued by an unknown party.

Solid, in the trailer and the concept art looks old but i think that could be something to do with FOXDIE, but Gangsta' s explanation makes sense.

The thing is, Liquid (Ocelots alternative personality due to him now having Liquids arm), Solid, Big Boss, Otacon, Fotrune, Vamp and Raiden all want the same thing, the end of the Patriots.

Ocelot as himself works with the Patriots. We don' t know for definate who Meryl or her father Colonel Campbell are working for. All the Colonel has managed so far is to get Metal Gear into the hands of the Patriots.

It certainly going to be very interesting to see what happens.

Naomi Hunter who tried to kill Solid with FOXDIE near the end of MGS1, she got jailed but was rescued by an unknown party.

That chic was white wasn' t she?

:)

Yeah, but the woman in the artwork is hooded. Probably Fortune though...

I don' t care what Kojima-san calls it, i don' t care who else likes it, i considered metal gear solid to be a true piece of art, that' s my opinion, and i have no base to back it up. MGS3 Snake Eater was the most emotional wartime story i' ve ever been immersed into since Saving Private Ryan. the end with the Flowers on the Boss' grave, while snake was saluting was heartwrenching. which brings up a different point. as kojima is moving forward in time, to solid snakes future, who else would like to play a game surrouding the background info on The Boss in World War II. Will it happen? most likely not, but it would be cool.

Nah, Boss' s character sucked!

The Snakes are better. Kojima and Shinkawa' s characters are mostly always great, but Boss and Raiden are awful.

I' d rather play as Ocelot than Boss.

Naked Snake (aka..Big Boss) and Solid Snake are who we should play as all the time!!!

Abasoufiane if i understand well kojima , then even music and cinema today are not art because they are produced to make money, they are produced to attract a huge number of people, and so are games....

....what you have to understand, is that what is today considered to be mere entertainment and escapism, actually has it' s origins in art....

...what has happened, is that the concepts, ideals values and aesthetics of the artist have been replaced by capitalism....

...that' s why 90% of films, games and music are total, mind-numbingly meaningless crap..

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

MGS3 Snake Eater was the most emotional wartime story i' ve ever been immersed into since Saving Private Ryan. the end with the Flowers on the Boss' grave

You should check TAE GUK GI - incredible war movie (the language doeasn' t get in the way - don' t use dubbing , go for the original audio)

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/taegukgi/

..that' s why 90% of films, games and music are total, mind-numbingly meaningless crap..

That' s not capitalism - it' s the people that are crap.They don' t see the need for perfection - great content sells very well if marketing is right so that should only encourage them.

First of all, I think that MGS4 will focus on Snake' s search for a cure for FOXDIE in addition to the usual devastating nuclear weapon, scientist in distress, corps of super soldiers, etc. Reason being that when seen together, the picture of Naomi/Fortune in the poster shares more features with Dr.Hunter (similar eyes, lips, nose) than with Fortune. Also, the bit in the trailer where Snake injects himself with some sort of medicine after a coughing fit that looks like a heart attack. (Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge).

Second of all, as far-fetched as Kojima' s plots have been, I doubt Big Boss will be appearing with any semblance of life left in him. Instead, I think the burned and decayed Big Boss represents his continued influence on the world, even after his death, possibly through Liquid or Solid.

Third of all, Raiden' s a moron for taking his kid with him armed for what looks like a combat situation.

Heart attack? Nah, he' s suffering from both cellular degration and having been exposed to FOXDIE. Solidus Snake was the youngest of the 3 Snakes (genetic sons of Big Boss) and yet looked much older than either Solid or Liquid had because his cells were degrading.

I think that all of the characters in the concept art will actually be in the game. Bringing Big Boss back after having played him in MGS3 would be a pretty good move, but i don' t quite see how he can be alive (unless Solid didn' t actually kill him). Remember that Big Boss wants to end The Patriots rule too.

We don' t know who' s baby it is. Snake and Raiden agreed (at the end of MGS2) to rescue Olga' s kidnapped child.