I don' t like how Sony have handled PS3 so far. I think what they' re doing is relatively obvious and i don' t think they are being fair on their own userbase (read: PS2 install base). I do however think that one or two people are being a little harsh intheir opinions of PS3 games shown at E3 this year.

I will be the first to say that none of the games Sony have shown look as good as the 2nd and what will be the 3rd generation of 360 titles, but when you put everything into perspective it' s very unfair to compare them.

Sony' s main problem was that Microsoft entered the next-gen early and MUCH earlier than Sony had expected. CELL wasn' t even finished and Blu-Ray was having teething problems so in a sense Microsoft FORCED Sony to rush a strategy and try to keep cool while doing so.



Now, as for E3, ...you' ll probably have noticed that some games you expected to be showcased haven' t appeared and haven' t even been talked about. Mostly Japanese games! It would seem that Sony are delaying showing most of their Japanese developed titles until TGS in September (very close to launch), and they are doing so for 2 reasons:

1 - The extra development time will allow for the game demos (for the show) to be much more polished than the titles shown at E3.

2 - Sony' s strength lie' s in their massive developer support and their best games are generally developed by Japanese studios. Games like DMC and RE are as popular outside Japan as they are on their home turf so delaying them until Sepetember when console' s launch will be just around the corner will build a huge amount of hype. That and stores will only have just begun taking pre-orders around that time.



When i say that people are being overly harsh i' m looking back at TGS last year when Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter looked awful and had a choppy framerate. It looked like this...



...and sure it looked nicer than any " non-next-gen" game, but the additional 6 months development time allowed for it to end up looking like this...



...and has ended up being my favourite game of this year so far.

So while games like Motor Storm (which looks disturbingly bad) and Resistance look nowhere near as good as they ought to, their still a good chance that in the next 6 months or so, they' ll vastly improve.

Sony' s only saving graces have been MGS4 (which is still only a cutscene and not a representation of what the game will be like when you play it!), Heavenly Sword and Warhawk (which i think looks great.

Heavenly Sword does need to be worked on but if it turns out to be a God of War/Ninja Gaiden-esque game rather than a Dynasty Warriors/99 Nights-esque game then all the better really. 99 Nights has really impressed me thuis far but seemingly lacks depth so if Heavenly Sword continues as i suspect it' ll be a seriously good game upon it' s release.

I would have liked to have seen Advanced Warfighter on PS3 (expected at launch) so i could get an idea of how it' s coming along (it' s being ported from 360). It would also have been nice to see the PS3 version of Fight Night Round 3, but i guess i' ll have to go without...



The things that have really let people down are things like the PS3' s stupid controller. I HATE the Dual Shock 2. It' s a horribly designed pad with overly sensitive analog sticks that are made from a nasty slippery rubber, and the worst d-pad ever! It' s just average and nothing more.

To remove the force feedback is bad enough, but then to go and claim that it interferes with the tilt tech is just stupid because Nintendo have got it working fine. The reasoin they aren' t using rumble technology is because Immersion won their lawsuit and while Sony have appealed and can still sell PS2' s with Dual Shock 2 pads, Immersion won' t let Sony use the technology for PS3.

Ken said that rumble was " old gen" -- Well Ken' s a fucking idiot who my good friend Quez would say looks like a frog. So we have another addition to Ken' s library of moron quotes...



The other thing is the prices and how the 2 SKU' s break down. It' s seriously a bad move to ship a lower spec' d version of the console and make it un-upgradable. No HDMI and no memory stick ports are the main issues, with a smaller HDD and lack of 802.11g compatability being minor insults, ...but it' s really not very fair on the people who can' t afford to spend $600/£410 on the higher end machine. At least the core 360 was only lacking add ons that can be bought and fitted later.

Sucks that some people are going to have to choose between a Wii & 360 or a PS3 for the same amount of money!



At the end of the day, Sony are going to let developers bail them out and make it work for them, but with 360 getting much more 3rd party support and having some insanely good looking exclusives (Alan Wake for one), i don' t see how Sony can justify what they are doing, ...or would you pay $600 just for the 1st generation, 2x Blu-Ray drive that' s in the machine?!

As long as people keep buying it then they' ll keep screwing us over.

I would say that 70% of all customers that I speak to want PS3 simply on behalf of what PS2 gave them, a better selection of shoddy, generic mainstream games. They also believe that these games will look better than on 360.

Ultimately the general view in terms of Sony' s Dual Shock is that it' s the best controller ever made. I strongly disagree as do most of the well informed gamers which come to this forum, but the mass market gamer who just plays for fun without thinking about how things should be better will just continue as usual.

PS3 will succeed, succeed very well it will, simply becasue people who made the PS2 so successful don' t care about gaming or it' s future. They' ll just move on and ruin everything true gamers care so dearly about. And Sony will find another market to conquer and bring down.

At least MS (XB live, 360 pad - perfection of design started by Sega)) and Nintendo (Wii, DS, Metroid) care about gaming enough to deliver the best controllers and the most forward-thinking innovative games and consoles. And third parties will always develop for an alternative as long as it has a large enough consumer support and marketing.

Are we being too harsh on Sony. Not with PS3 no, their controller is outdated, their vision for gaming is nothing but a business, and their love for the industry a blatant marketing ploy.

I don' t hate the PlayStation as a console as it has some of my favorite games, but I dislike Sony as a company for failling to improve things which are so falling behind.

both very objective and well put, I dont mind the positioning of the sony pad though, while the d-pad sucks ass, and hearing sony fixed the sensitivity of their analogs.

The worst thing about sony is the lack of innovation... its doing nothing new. Even the much touted blu-ray, is just pushing another format, like with dvd. controller, wii rip-off - i honestly would rather have the rumble feature.

Going into next gen i' m poor as hell, so i only want 1 system for the start, and ps3 will have the exclusives i enjoyed on current gen for them, like god of war, dmc, also i dont hate the idea of blue ray. I current have all current gen systems and xbox is my least played... so to me 360 is a gamble... I wont get a ps3 at launch i hope they will like MS lower the price quick. £399>£299. I think sony unlike m$ wouldn' t refund the difference.

I wanna get a Wii but that' ll be cheap and im not in a rush for it. Oh well at least there is still a couple ps2 games with promise.

It' s a double-edged sword with Sony - the PS3 after around 6 months or so will get the games I most want but at the same time the company is unwilling to further the design of it' s peripherals and create a firm focus on where it plans to take it' s console.

At the end of all this though, we' ll still have the great games we expect (and not) which is one hell of a consolation prize, if you can even call it that.

Personally I have nothing against the Ps2 or the Ps3. I mean yes I am not fond of the price, but if you want it you pay the price or wait until it gets cheaper, or if you don’t like/want it then you skip it. It isn’t any harder than that. The people at Sony will definitely try to sell their product for you but they cannot force you to. I will get one, as there are many games that I think I will like that comes for it, mainly MGS4, FFXIII and possibly a new game by the Ico developer. It’s all a matter of what kind of games you like and it doesn’t matter if it’s mainstream or not, as long as you enjoy it. And on that note I fail to find neither the X-Box 360 or it’s games to be more innovative or any lesser mainstream. The box seems (in my eyes) to be mostly about the FPS, while the Ps is more for them who like Japanese style RPG. Still both have some of everything in order to try to please others as well as letting people to take breaks from one genre. Both consoles have great games and ideally all would cooperate to give every consumer what they want. This however they won’t, and why would they? It’s a business! And companies want to win that war.

To add (so people will understand why I might think in certain ways) the Ps2 is one of my favourite consoles. If I where to make a top list, it would probably rank 3rd followed by the N64 and in first place the divine Dreamcast. The ranking is simply decided by how many games I liked, how much I liked them and how much I enjoyed the actual console (controller and such). Also incidentally the X-Box isn’t ranked forth, not because I disliked it, but because there weren’t many games that I really liked, and I do stress the “I” part.

Oh, by the way. How about starting a “peoples personal favourite games top ten list?”, in order to better understand what peoples preferences are. Or has it already been done or is it boring/meaningless/a waste of time and space on the Kikizo forums?

the games you most want? are you serious? Devil May Cry has never been as good since the original, MGS is as good, (or in my opinion worse) as Splinter Cell, Killzone cannot, and willnot ever hold a candle to (you guessed it) halo. the GTA series is comming out for both PS and xbox on the same day now, the only real card Sony holds is Final Fantasy, and that has already started its transition to xbox with XI. Now if you want to look at what the 360 has to offer, Mass Effect is shaping up to be an phenominal game, same could be said for Fable 2. Forza may still come in at second place to Trismo, but that gap is closing in FAST. Gears of War is going to be one of the funnest games you have ever played as well. And, then, there is Halo. IF you dont like Halo, you dont like FPS games.... if you dont like halo 2, you never played it online. Halo 3 is shaping up to be the best of both plus so much more.... stick to Kingdom Hearts if you want... i prefer the rush from finishing first in a Rumble Pit match..

The PS3 has Virtua Fighter 5.
VIRTUA FIGHTER!!!
And lots of other games of course, many of which hasn' t been announced yet. Microsoft on the other hand have announced most of their best games since they can' t do much more. So wait until the PS3 launches and the announcements should follow. Saying FFXIII is their only real card is somewhat ignorant.
But still, Sony has made some really stupid decisions this time. I usually support them but most of their plans for the PS3 are really, really stupid. I' m not getting a PS3 for a while. Even though the 360 might not have as many great games as the PS3 will have in the end, it does have the best library right now (duh!) and it will take a while for Sony to catch up.
I' m glad Sony have the PSP which is a really great device. It gives me some faith in Sony. Unless they suddenly announce a touch-screen add-on for the PSP

@ returnofreaper

Nice! In your very first post you make yourself look like an idiot...

I' m not defending Sony, you' ll have to trust me on that, ...and if you don' t want to trust me you can ask absolutely ANYBODY who posts here and they' ll tell you that i MUCH prefer Microsoft to Sony.

I was however trying to refrain fro being biased. See, i' m obviously going to advocate the machine i already own (360) because otherwise i' d have wasted my money right?!

This isn' t a Sony bashing thread, it was a response to the multiple threads already available that are doing nothing but slate Sony and argue that what they have to show is complete rubbish.

I hyate to use the term " fanboy" but you' re not doing yourself any favours!

The games you most want? are you serious? Devil May Cry has never been as good since the original, MGS is as good, (or in my opinion worse) as Splinter Cell, Killzone cannot, and willnot ever hold a candle to (you guessed it) halo

I wouldn' t dispute that. But since games like Deveil May Cry, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Metal Gear Solid etc are big contributors to why Sony' s install base is so large they can' t be disregarded.

Some Japanese developed titles ARE missing and they WILL show up at TGS in September looking better than the stuff at E3.

I don' t think anybody can dispute that Heavenly Sword looks like it will a killer app. Warhawk also looks REALLY good (although that being said, i' m seriously hoping for a next-gen Crimson Skies and another Panzer Dragoon).

...and if you don' t want to trust me you can ask absolutely ANYBODY who posts here and they' ll tell you that i MUCH prefer Microsoft to Sony.

This is Majik to me:
Majik really, really doesn' t like Sony. He owns two PSPs though.
He does like Microsoft on the other hand. He somehow thinks they are making things easier for developers and they' re not as ignorant or full of shit as Sony.
I first thought Majik was a true Sony hater just for the sake of hating Sony. But then I realized that he had pretty good reasons for his opinions which makes him unbiased. I do however think he puts to much effort on stating and explaining his dislike for Sony.

idiot? ouch! that hurt dra6on..

im just amazed you didnt mention God of War... ( i forgot to mention that one last post)

still, games aside, i cannot help but fell that sony ripped off microsoft and nintendo both (espiecialy nintendo) i can but i cant fault them for the guide button and the more trigger like L2 and R2 buttons... its the logical progression of hardware.. (same could be said of Microsoft when the added the " bumper" buttons..) but i could never see the " 6 degrees of movement" ever beign consitered if not for the Wii.

and i seriously doubt casual gamers will go for the 500-600 dollar price point..

those are not fanboy comments...

a fanboy comment was the halo splurge i went on last post... yes i adore halo... sue me

I do however think he puts to much effort on stating and explaining his dislike for Sony.

Only because i so often get accused of " hating" them. I don' t, i just think their PS3 strategy is laughable.

and i seriously doubt casual gamers will go for the 500-600 dollar price point..

I kind of agree. The price IS always important, and obviously will have a negative effect on the sales, but since it' s only really (generally) the hardcore fans that buy machines at launch, and since there are always limited amounts of units to go around, Sony won' t have trouble moving every console they produce for the launch.

Their struggle will be to reduce the cost of the machine as quickly as possible so that they can slash the price for summer 2007. Sony are a company that excels in minimizing their costs very quickly so it' ll be interesting to see how much the conosole will have dropped in price in it' s first year on shelves.



I HATE SONY' S PAD!

The thing is,by going 360+wii they can have their halo3,GTA4,mass effect,zelda,mario,gears of war,metroid,red steel,ubi soft games and lost odyssey.

And before someone write some ps3 titles,i could read up 20 more if i need but that isn' t the point the point is that with xbox360+nintendo wii you get a more complete and better library for the same price as ps3,even thoguh anyone could argue that nintendo wii or xbox360 itself is better then ps3,ofc its all about taste,but saying that paying for a ps3 that cost as much as 360 and nintendo wii gonna delvier as good gaming to the consumer as if you choose 2 next gen consoles instead of one is just BS.

Now ofc i dont think ps3 gonna be better then xbox360 or nintendo wii,however if you gonna charge the consumer that much money as for a console with the same power as a 360,you better have many more AAA title thens the competetion whihc ps3 doesnt.

So far its very equal,ofc i will say 360 is in better advantage and some sony fans here will say the opposite however anyone of us claiming its a big advantage on either side is just BS.

Halo3,alan wake,Gears of war,too human,Mass effect,lost planet,ninja gaiden 2,fable 2,lost odyssey,forza,tri-ace new rpg and blue dragon.

Is a library not to play around with

true about the launch..

if i think about all the friends i have though... not one of them is hardcore enough to buy a 600 dollar console (the 500 dollar model will only be bought by the desperate and/or those unknowlegeable of the facts) almost every person i knew at college bough systems for sports games... im not saying that they represent teh majority of gamers, but a big piece nonetheless...

even if i WAS hardcore sony, 600 dollars would still turn me off. at least the core model CAN be upgraded to be equal to the premium.

and not to mention 360 has TABLE TENIS WOOWOO .... lol.. why the hell do i want that game so much????

have they acctualy announced ninja gaiden 2? i havnt heard anything about that yet... have they at least announced plans?

NG2 will be on 360. That goes without saying.

Code Chronus will go to PS3 and Project Progressive will probably go to PS3 too (nobody even knows what it is properly yet).

I don' t think NG2 will be out before DoA5 though...

When IGN wrote that it may come to Ps3 last year,he answered that he got very supriced at why they wrote that and said they shouldnt,and he also stated he would never dissapoint his fans at xbox,and ofc not his ninja gaiden fans so ng2 is coming.

Ng2 " IS" coming to 360.

You know, PS3' s worst feature is it' s price, and it' s really going to hurt the consumers, and possibly sony if too many are turned off by it.
As yet they haven' t announced an official UK price, I find this depressing, I hope they don' t rip us off with £499/599.

See quez liked some good titles for the 360 - One of which I want more than all others. And it' s ture you might get more of a " Complete experience" owning a wii and 360 over a PS3. But to do that means missing out on exclusive PS3 titles, and unlike the early Playstation days Sony do a lot of good games these days.

God of War, GT, Anything by the ICO creators, and then there is the likes of DMC, FF, so on and so forth. All these would be missed, and these are games A lot of people will want to continue playing next gen.

Microsoft' s line up is very impressive, and a little before E3 i was changing my mind on getting PS3. WHat changed my mind was the idea that the 360 will have been out for the better part of a year before it' s better games release.The very same will likely happen with PS3, For a system to launch with 1 game I want is enough. (because i prefer to give attention to one at a time or I might get too lazy and not finish one of them)

To answer the question in the thread: I think people are being too harsh.

Sure sony ripped off wii, or as i prefer to think the dreamcast fishing rod.
Sure they now have a " guide" button, as stated it' s pretty natural progression.
I think for these and the price sony deserve some comments, but there is a little too much hate. And the tilt is good for casual gamers, it' s all business, baby.

I actually preferred the look of the concept controller though. If they could have made some miner alterations then I would have been happy. Also the relase of just a black system after mainly adertising the system in silver?? Wrong.


Anyway sorry for the long ass post, hope some of you are still awake.

If they could have made some miner alterations then I would have been happy

Like a pick axe?

Moved down vvv

I know I am in the minority with actually liking this controller, by I stand by it and hope sony release one as an alternative pad, but with triggers (to please the masses, i never liked triggers at all) and the other alterations i had in mind.

I think it looks comfortable, and fits the design of the machine.