I couldn't care less about either candidates policies. I probably should because America is the backbone of the world economy, something that's been driven home and then some in the past 12 months... but i don't. It's more about what Obama represents. Let congress deal with policies and proposals, that's what it exists for. But America electing a black man? It would speak volumes.

I can understand that from your perspective. Congress has a far bigger impact on your economic standing than the POTUS does.

Sure, it would speak volumes... so Elect Bob Barr. I'm not in total agreement with his policies, but at the very least, I know he won't take any foolhardy economic decisions. I'd rather have a lame duck than a dismal failure any day.

Affirmative action was put into place to counteract the effects of slavery, and the lack of education and economic power before the civil rights movement.  It may have done some good, but I believe it has outlived it's usefulness and needs to be shelved.  The black community is being hand-held at this point, and it's time to let go and learn to walk on our own.  Continuing to enable people to rely on race to get ahead is only hurting the black community, and stifles true growth.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's time.

Your wife won't let you date white women?

Wow. What a bitch...

Man why must you call my wife a bitch. Your going to far nitro. I would have never disrespect you or yours like that.

Any way I think something is wrong with the quote system.  Fix you jew bastard.

Me being from another country has little to do with it. People dont know I'm not from america until they walk in my house.
All I know is america my son and my wife are both americans. Oh I cant wait for obama to win the election what type of change  would this bring.

Your wife lets you date black women?

People dont know I'm not from america until they walk in my house.
All I know is america my son and my wife are both americans.

You're as African as I am Welsh and Irish.

I don't expect my country to dole out handouts to me because "my people" are short little bastards from all those years in coal mines, nor do I expect reparations for racist actions and remarks made against "my people" because of my Irish heritage.

"Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism.  It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage -- the notion that a man's intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry.  Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.  

Racism claims that the content of a man's mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man's convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical forces beyond his control.  This is the caveman's version of the doctrine of innate ideas -- or of inherited knowledge -- which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science.  Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes.  It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of animals, but not between animals and men."

-Ayn Rand

Affirmative action isn't just focused on counteracting institutionalized racism, but also institutionalized sexism.  Research shows that women still make, on average, less money for equivalent work than men do. 

The whole "let's just pretend like everything's cool now" argument for doing away with affirmative action is flawed.  Clearly the various "isms" are still malevolent and powerful forces within the world.

Someone was describing this attitude to me recently.  They likened it to an ongoing poker game.  For years the old racist, sexist guy is cheating his ass off and winning every single hand.  Later on, the older people die and their kids take their places.  Now the kid of the old racist, sexist guy says "I'm not gonna cheat like my old man did.  From here on, everything is fair."  But he's still got almost all the chips.  That's what's known as 'privilege' and to varying degrees a lot of people are completely unaware or unwilling to admit that they have it.  It may not be through any wrongdoing of their own but it exists and it influences situations in many ways, some obvious and many less so. 

The playing field is not level.  It never has been.  Affirmative action is a flawed but necessary mechanism because there are bigots in positions of power and influence who continue to exert their bigotry, oftentimes in hidden ways these days -- and oftentimes in broad daylight, as with discrimination against lesbians and gays.

If you've seen the last debate this video is hilarious.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HfysR59gEGQ&feature=related


Somewhat unrelated but funny as fuck:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/969623/
part 1

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/1003086/
part 2

mikayd2

Your wife won't let you date white women?

Wow. What a bitch...

Man why must you call my wife a bitch. Your going to far nitro. I would have never disrespect you or yours like that.

 
Bububu... she won't let you date white women!

White women are hotter than black women. Especially the Czech ones.

mikayd2


Oh I cant wait for obama to win the election what type of change  would this bring.

Internal change? I wouldn't expect anything too drastic.

Eddie_the_Hated


You're as African as I am Welsh and Irish.

I don't expect my country to dole out handouts to me because "my people" are short little bastards from all those years in coal mines, nor do I expect reparations for racist actions and remarks made against "my people" because of my Irish heritage.

I'm pretty sure he spent much of his life in Africa, then moved to the US. I could be wrong, but he's talked about "coming over" before so i got the impression he was an immigrant.

So you that strongly support affirmative action? How do white people "have all the chips"? If you come from a rich family youre going to whatever school you want anyway, most likely be able to get a good paying job through connections through your rich family or that you made at your expensive private school. Its not rich people that are being passed-over by affirmative action, its middle-class and poor people that are, people who in no way had any more "chips" than anyone else.

My ancestors were for the most part Irish, they didnt own any slaves. Hell, they barely owned anything. They came over on a boat like the rest of the poor people, were conscripted into the Union Army, and then went back to the slums with the rest of the Irish people.

My family lives in a middle-class suburb, my dad makes 60K a year working at a company that does something with ceramic engineering, and my step-mother works part-time at a jewlery store. With 2 little brothers, my parents cant afford to send my to private schools, and could only help with college, not pay in full. So if I were to be passed over for grants, tuition assistance, or anything similar based on the color of my skin and not based on factors such as GPA, test scores, etc., how would that be right? Because I wasnt born into a race that was enslaved?

FACT: No person who was a slave in the US is alive today.
FACT: Any person in the US of African decent has no right to bitch about what didnt happen to them.
FACT: Most of Africa is nothing more than a cespool of famine, disease, war, and poverty. Seems like in the end it worked out for everyone in the US.


And for the record, people should only be divided into 3 groups not based on race. Intelligent/capable, ignorant/stupid, and muslims. But we wont get into that.

immortaldanmx


And for the record, people should only be divided into 3 groups not based on race. Intelligent/capable, ignorant/stupid, and muslims/Jews. But we wont get into that.

Fixed.

Why are you grouping Islam with Judaism? Theyre hardly the same religion.

immortaldanmx


Why are you grouping Islam with Judaism? Theyre hardly the same religion.

Not Judaism, just Jews in general.

I wasn't referring to Muslims as in Arabic people though, I meant it as a religion.

Zoy, I like the analogy, and I see where you're coming from, but I see it a little different.  Using your poker metaphor, it's all good to try to redistribute the chips, but if the chip leader is the best player of the game, the other folks at the table won't keep the chips until they are able to win the chips themselves.

Instead of affirmative action, education should be our primary focus.  Black kids are usually forced to attend public schools in the inner city.  Those schools serve one purpose, and that is to create good little workers.  Not leaders, nor business owners, but mental slaves.  Assembly line laborers.  Of course there are a lot of issues that contribute to the plight of black people in America, but I think education should be the number one priority for a better future.

Chee Saw


Zoy, I like the analogy, and I see where you're coming from, but I see it a little different.  Using your poker metaphor, it's all good to try to redistribute the chips, but if the chip leader is the best player of the game, the other folks at the table won't keep the chips until they are able to win the chips themselves.

Instead of affirmative action, education should be our primary focus.  Black kids are usually forced to attend public schools in the inner city.  Those schools serve one purpose, and that is to create good little workers.  Not leaders, nor business owners, but mental slaves.  Assembly line laborers.  Of course there are a lot of issues that contribute to the plight of black people in America, but I think education should be the number one priority for a better future.

Education or lack of, is the cause of the plight of everyone, of every race and background.

I like the idea of instead of affirmative action spend the money on education. And by money I mean the money used to hire EO Reps and the like. Because truth is, not only are black people are suffering in inner cities, everyone is. Also the media should stop using rappers and gangster stereotypes when blacks are portrayed. Its about time race is a non-issue, but programs like affirmative action will only keep race an issue.

"It aint about black or white cause we're human"-Tupac Amaru Shakur

Affirmative action isn't just focused on counteracting institutionalized racism, but also institutionalized sexism.  Research shows that women still make, on average, less money for equivalent work than men do. 

Would you agree that, as a whole though, Affirmitive Action positively impacts African Americans more than it does women?

On a second note, the statistics you're referring to are easily misinterpreted.

The studies performed that reflect an age gap are representative of the median earnings of both men and women who clock in for 32 hours or more a week, regardless of where they work, or at what level.

It doesn't compare men and women who have equal careers, education, or tenure, simply the aggregate of both sexes.

The statistics are rather misleading, because more oft than not, they are posted without proper context. Most pieces fail to report that more women choose lower-paying professions than men, that women enter and exit the workplace at a higher rate than men, that according to OSHA and the NADL, 95% of the 25 most hazardous jobs are performed by men, and 95% of the least hazardous jobs are performed by women, or that women work fewer hours on average, than men, due to many women's position as primary caregiver of their children.

That's not to say that gender discrimination in the workplace doesn't exist, but it's esitmated that at least half, if not more of that pay discrepancy is based on the reasons listed above.

If you have some more detailed research, or some more definitive research, I'd be glad to see it though. That's my conclusion, from the limited time I've spent studying wage discrepancy.

FACT: No person who was a slave in the US is alive today.
FACT: Any person in the US of African decent has no right to bitch about what didnt happen to them.
FACT: Most of Africa is nothing more than a cespool of famine, disease, war, and poverty. Seems like in the end it worked out for everyone in the US.
 

 
I had this long ass post but something happened with my pc and it got deleted. Your just an Ignorant white boy so there’s no need to waste my time. Majik was right you are a moron so back to the red button well blue button. IGNORANCE AT ITS BEST.

Bububu... she won't let you date white women!
White women are hotter than black women. Especially the Czech ones.

 
No to me I like my woman thick very thick starting at 150lbs and up I might take a 135 but Czech woman sure are sexy like no other.  It’s not that my wife wont let me date white woman. She wont let me date any woman and I think it’s unfair but what can I do kill her?
 
Oh and I hate the word immigrant and no you cannot call me that.

You're as African as I am Welsh and Irish.
 

 
I’m straight from the motherland I don’t know if I can get any more African than that. But my son is all American so is the wife.  Oh and eddie I think  you are a smart little bastard.   
 

Instead of affirmative action, education should be our primary focus.  Black kids are usually forced to attend public schools in the inner city.  Those schools serve one purpose, and that is to create good little workers.  Not leaders, nor business owners, but mental slaves.  Assembly line laborers.  Of course there are a lot of issues that contribute to the plight of black people in America, but I think education should be the number one priority for a better future.
 

 
That can be said for anybody that lives within the city but it is very true for black kids.

Would you agree that, as a whole though, Affirmitive Action positively impacts African Americans more than it does women?

Actually from what I've heard it's white women who have benefited the most from Affirmative Action.  But I'll have to ask around as to the sources of that assertion.

Regarding your other points, I would direct you to this 2007 study published by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, "Behind the Pay Gap."    Obviously they set out to argue that the wage gap exists, and that it is based on sexism -- but they do acknowledge and address many of your points.

One year out of college, women working full time earn only 80 percent as much as their male colleagues earn. Ten years after graduation, women fall farther behind, earning only 69 percent as much as men earn. Controlling for hours, occupation, parenthood, and other factors normally associated with pay, college-educated women still earn less than their male peers earn.

Individuals can, however, make choices that can greatly enhance their earnings potential. Choosing to attend college and completing a college degree have strong positive effects on earnings, although all college degrees do not have the same effect. The selectivity of the college attended and the choice of a major also affect later earnings. Many majors remain strongly dominated by one gender. Female students are concentrated in fields associated with lower earnings, such as education, health, and psychology. Male students dominate the higher-paying fields: engineering, mathematics, and physical sciences. Women and men who majored in “male-dominated” subjects earn more than do those who majored in “female dominated” or “mixed-gender” fields. For example, one year after graduation, the average female education major working full time earns only 60 percent as much as the average female engineering major working full time earns.

The choice of major is not the full story, however. As early as one year after graduation, a pay gap is found between women and men who had the same college major. In education, a female-dominated major, women earn 95 percent as much as their male colleagues earn. In biological sciences, a mixed-gender major, women earn only 75 percent as much as men earn. Likewise in mathematics—a male dominated major—women earn only 76 percent as much as men earn. Female students cannot simply choose a major
that will allow them to avoid the pay gap.

Early career choices, most prominently occupational choices, also play a role in the gender pay gap. While the choice of major is related to occupation, the relationship is not strict. For example, some mathematics majors choose to teach, while others work in business or computer science. One year after graduation, women who work in computer science, for instance, earn over 37 percent more than do women who are employed in education or administrative, clerical, or legal support occupations. Job sector also affects earnings. Women are more likely than men to work in the nonprofit and local government sectors, where wages are typically lower than those in the for-profit and federal government sectors.

The division of labor between parents appears to be similar to that of previous generations. Motherhood and fatherhood affect careers differently. Mothers are more likely than fathers (or other women) to work part time, take leave, or take a break from the work force—factors that negatively affect wages. Among women who graduated from college in 1992–93, more than one-fifth (23 percent) of mothers were out of the work force in 2003, and another 17 percent were working part time. Less than 2 percent of fathers were out
of the work force in 2003, and less than 2 percent were working part time. On average, mothers earn less than women without children earn, and both groups earn less than men earn.

Personally my initial response to the explanation that women earn less than men due to the fact that they often take leaves of absence to give birth and raise children is simply that, it just sounds like women are doing a lot more work for a lot less pay.  Why should women be penalized monetarily for taking on one of the most important jobs in society?  To assert that women deserve less pay because they took a leave of absence makes it sound like they were just relaxing and taking a vacation when in fact they were actually taking on more work.

Zoy, I like the analogy, and I see where you're coming from, but I see it a little different. Using your poker metaphor, it's all good to try to redistribute the chips, but if the chip leader is the best player of the game, the other folks at the table won't keep the chips until they are able to win the chips themselves.

I think that's a good point.  And it just leads me to believe that peoples' lives shouldn't be based around gambling.  I'm not just being flippant in saying that, either.  Just look at the mess that the economy is in.  I think capitalism should be heavily regulated, and certain fundamental necessities like health care and all levels of education should be accessible for free (primarily by diverting the majority of military spending directly to health care and education).  Also, a lot of what are regarded as crimes (e.g., drug addiction and subsequent property crimes related to addiction) need to be regarded as health care issues first and foremost.

I agree with your point about education, but a great education alone will not get a lot of people out of the circumstances they are caught within until capitalism and various forms of "isms" are reined in.  I recently did a series of interviews with incarcerated women here in Washington state.  All of them were extremely intelligent and many were very eloquent and articulate in their understanding, analysis and critique of the system they were caught up in.  I thought some of them could be college professors, had I not been sitting in a building in the middle of a prison.  But knowing exactly what is going on is still not the magical key to changing your life around -- there are powerfully destructive forces ingrained in government and private sector business, and in our economic system.  So, Affirmative Action is not an ideal solution but I have yet to hear any better ideas to address these factors and I definitely don't think just getting rid of it at this point is going to somehow make everyone in positions of power fair and equitable, and have everyone from an oppressed background have an equal shot at living up to their potential.

mikayd2

FACT: No person who was a slave in the US is alive today.
FACT: Any person in the US of African decent has no right to bitch about what didnt happen to them.
FACT: Most of Africa is nothing more than a cespool of famine, disease, war, and poverty. Seems like in the end it worked out for everyone in the US.

I had this long ass post but something happened with my pc and it got deleted. Your just an Ignorant white boy so there’s no need to waste my time. Majik was right you are a moron so back to the red button well blue button. IGNORANCE AT ITS BEST.

Bububu... she won't let you date white women!
White women are hotter than black women. Especially the Czech ones.

No to me I like my woman thick very thick starting at 150lbs and up I might take a 135 but Czech woman sure are sexy like no other.  It’s not that my wife wont let me date white woman. She wont let me date any woman and I think it’s unfair but what can I do kill her?

Oh and I hate the word immigrant and no you cannot call me that.

You're as African as I am Welsh and Irish.

I’m straight from the motherland I don’t know if I can get any more African than that. But my son is all American so is the wife.  Oh and eddie I think  you are a smart little bastard.   

Instead of affirmative action, education should be our primary focus.  Black kids are usually forced to attend public schools in the inner city.  Those schools serve one purpose, and that is to create good little workers.  Not leaders, nor business owners, but mental slaves.  Assembly line laborers.  Of course there are a lot of issues that contribute to the plight of black people in America, but I think education should be the number one priority for a better future.

That can be said for anybody that lives within the city but it is very true for black kids.

Did you miss something? Majik called YOU ignorant. What point of that statement do you want to argue? That there is still a former slave alive? That the majority of Africa isnt 3rd world and plagued by problems? Those both seem to be true statements. And white boy? You really shouldnt talk to someone with most likely double your IQ like that, fucking foreigner.