I could also argue that Jade Empire, Half Life 2, Halo, etc don' t have any " glaring" glitches and therefore their developers are perfect.

Half Life 2 is the only game taht you mentioned , that I can' t really bitch about - it' s top quality.Halo 2 had stupid glitches and jade empire wasn' t perfect too :)

I' m saying that huge japanese titles/bestsellers like Dragon Quest VIII are perfect comparing to huge US and EU bestsellers lke GTA IV.

It' s not unheard of.While I don' t like what' s going on with jRPGs lately - these games aren' t flawed as much as any american or european game.

KOTOR wasn' t a massive game but it was flawed like fuckin hell.

I like perfection and this I get from Japanese devs and very rare from US/EU people.

It' s pretty obvious that Bethesda has done everything they could to balance load times, complexity and visuals. When the Japanese get off their asses and do something as complex as Oblivion and pull it off perfectly, I' ll shut up. But until then your argument is flawed too.

You' re right , there' s no proof that Square would do Oblivion better - there' s only it' s software library that is always polished - even if the game itself is bad.
I love consoles for polished console productions from japan and some titles from US and EU that are amazing sometimes.

Can you compare people like CAPCOM,NINTENDO or old SEGA to Bethesda? yeah , you probably can, but that' s not a fair comparison - it' s a different league.

i doubt square-enix would do a better oblivion :P

Halo 2 had stupid glitches and jade empire wasn' t perfect too :)

Every game has glitches! Including the " perfect" Japanese ones!

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=final+fantasy+glitches&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=metal+gear+solid+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=halo+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=half+life+2+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=

How can you turn a blind eye to Japanese ones yet rag on the Western ones? None of the games mentioned - be it Japanese or Western made - have glaring game breaking glitches. But they still do have glitches none the less. None of them are perfect. Are you just biased? Super fussy? Hypocritical? Or do Japanese made games just function as a placebo for you?

I played through all the games listed - Japanese and Western and didn' t notice glaring/severe bugs in any of them! What exactly do you define as a glitch then?

Here' s a point what qualifies as a glitch, bug etc that' s evident in oblivion? because I have seen it being played and didn' t see anything that would put me off it but i' m no professional.

There is bugs/glitches in Oblivion i mean there is places where you can sell and make unlimited money,or kill a certain NPC and steal his gold forever.

However no one will figure that out before someone wrotye it over the web.
Same with those Final Fantasy glitches that unlycky linked to,i played ff4-ff10 and missed all glitches.

For the record, once when I was playing MGS3, after I defeated Fear the crossbow bolts stayed in my body for the rest of the game. I wasn' t able to remove them for some reason.

Yeah, same here! you could cure yourself, and they didn' t show up in FMV' s but all through the game i had a huge crossbow bolt sticking out of my bicep.

There will be bugs and glitches in every game, and as it stands, no one would be finding all of them if people didn' t like the game, and continue playing, regardless of little problems (or unfair advantages) like those.

How can you turn a blind eye to Japanese ones yet rag on the Western ones?

What I' m saying is that these titles are polished - I' ve never encountered any glitch or anything in most of them and so did 95% of people who finished them - I haven' t heard about anyone who played oblivion and didn' t at least notice some stupid npc behaviour or bug or stupid glitch - except kikizo comunity ofc but people here love their 360 :)

Yeah but dude, people often exaggerate shit like that. I think playing the game for yourself would be the best thing to do.

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made. Their best titles ever. And even those games have some minor bugs.
But then we have the standard japansese games and lots of them have many bugs and gliches and stuff.
The same thing goes for western games. Western AAA titles have bugs, but not many. Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs n' gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching and stuff later on. But other than that they' re pretty much the same.
Well, that' s what I feel anyway but maybe I' ve played the wrong games.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

...I think playing the game for yourself would be the best thing to do.

There' s a novel thought.

Someone judging a game based on what they heard or read is just silly.

For the record, Oblivion is a masterstroke. It' s better than all those games Gangsta mentioned, combined (except RE4)! Of course, this is just my opinion, but since my opinion is infallible...

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made. Their best titles ever. And even those games have some minor bugs.
But then we have the standard japansese games and lots of them have many bugs and gliches and stuff.
The same thing goes for western games. Western AAA titles have bugs, but not many.

I agree with that. Probably one of the reasons why Japanese developed games seem to be of a higher caliber is because only the really great ones get published over here. I' m sure that if you took into account all games on both sides there would be very little difference between Japanese developed games and Western developed games when it comes to glitches.

Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs n' gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching and stuff later on.

Being mainly a PC gamer I can' t fully agree with this. While I agree that sometimes the odd developer (Egosoft for example) can rely on the patch too much, it' s not often used as an excuse for crap games. Developers - be it PC or console would rather get it right the first time then have to continually spend resources to work on more patches all the time.

A lot of the time, whenever some new PC game comes out that pushes systems to the limit (HL2, Doom 3, etc), people will say that the engine is buggy/flawed because they can' t get a playable experience from it. The problem is quite often the users computer. Either they don' t meet a requirement, it' s overclocked to hell, their PC is full of spyware/virii, it' s un-optimized, they don' t have up to date drivers, etc.

PC' s aren' t consoles and people are quick to blame the developer/game rather than find out the sources of the problem on their own machines.

Sure, developers try to take into account as many different systems as possible and try to make the game scalable, but it' s not perfect. It' s very hard to program a game engine that scales perfectly. And yes there will always be bugs in any game but there' s not nearly as many as people say there are.

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made.

We' re comparing japanese AAA to Eu and US AAA - it' s been said before.

There' s a novel thought.

Someone judging a game based on what they heard or read is just silly.

Maybe , but when EVERY SINGLE editor points that out in his review - and I tend to read them to know stuff about product before I get it- then something is truly wrong.

And as you probably noticed in my previous post I' m rating oblivion very high and I' m going to finish it anyway.I think we were just talking about bugs here (and many of you forgot about it while blindly defending Bethesda with stuff like " I HAVEN' T SEEN A SINGLE GLITCH!!!" ..." Well ok maybe 1 or 5 but they were minor)

Oblivion is the newest and hottest title lately that suffers a lot from these problems (and yes I do not own it, but I' ve seen those bugs, glitches in action , I' ve read about even more of them and they ARE in this game wether you like it or not).

Being mainly a PC gamer I can' t fully agree with this. While I agree that sometimes the odd developer (Egosoft for example) can rely on the patch too much, it' s not often used as an excuse for crap games. Developers - be it PC or console would rather get it right the first time then have to continually spend resources to work on more patches all the time.

Being a well informed man I think that Xbox 360 Oblivion has already been patched with both good (improved framerate/360/ and some bugs eliminated) and bad (first of all if you have activated some buggy shit , you need to start game from the beginning after applying your patch/some loading issues have gotten worse on 360) features.What that means? oh it means ...

Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs and gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching later on.

I don' t get it guys what are you fighting for?

It' s a fact that Oblivion is flawed (more on 360 but it has same bugs on PC) - FLAWED A LOT.I' m not saying it' s easy to make a game like that,I' m not even saying that it' s a bad game - hell, I' m not even saying that those bugs ruin the experience.It' s got bugs and glitches (even after that new patch) and everyone knows this so live with it.

PC' s aren' t consoles and people are quick to blame the developer/game rather than find out the sources of the problem on their own machines.

You' re right , but there are countless glitches and flaws in those games that are left unrepaired by developers as well.

It' s more common on PC , cause anyone can make a PC game (not that it' s easy but you don' t need no special devkits and shit and it' s open source), but my point is - when you' re a PC dev and you make your game for a console, move that ass and have some respect for users, cause it' s a different market ,used to developers caring about their products and polishing them as much as possible.

God Damn you Bethesda Fanboys you made me sweat :)

Is it that hot in UK or Sweden? (it' s fuckin 35C in PL)

Let' s not get into comparing the 360 and PC versions of the game regarding bugs/glitches/known issues etc.

Since it' s release the 360 version had been patched/updated, which fixed many of the hinderance problems where people had gotten stuck and couldn' t procede with their quest.

The frame-rate in the outdoor areas has been much improved (the inside and contained outdoor areas have always been fine) and they weren' t THAT bad to begin with.

The loading times ARE slightly longer, but the removal of the loading slider (counter/whatever) from the actual loading screen doesn' t help matters as it SEEMS to make them even longer than they actually are.

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

That' s a nice wrap up of what I was saying and it' s almost 80% accurate - thank you :)

- some games for PC are so amazing that it hurts me inside when I can' t play them - Half Life 2 was like that, but I was able to finish this masterpiece on Xbox (my PC isn' t good for games).

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

That' s a nice wrap up of what I was saying and it' s almost 80% accurate - thank you :)

- some games for PC are so amazing that it hurts me inside when I can' t play them - Half Life 2 was like that, but I was able to finish this masterpiece on Xbox (my PC isn' t good for games).

Mine neither. While it runs Half Life 2 and Doom 3/Quake 4 really well, other games (Prey for one) bring it to a crawl. I would consider investing tons of money in a new machine if it weren' t for 360 and PS3 and the increasing number of titles being ported to consoles.

I seriously want to be able to play Crysis and Medievil: Total War 2 when they' re released. I' m hoping for 360 versions and going off the positive reactions of BFME2 on 360 strategy games could even be fun on consoles.

Saying that, i' m buying Wii at launch and i haven' t been so excited about a machine since the Dreamcast. The thing is gonna kick ass!

Mine neither. While it runs Half Life 2 and Doom 3/Quake 4 really well, other games (Prey for one) bring it to a crawl.

I' d feel bad for you, but mine has virtual-memory issues when I play Fallout.

wow eddie, what kind of rig do you have for the MONSTER of a game?

quad geforce 7 sli with duel core porcoessors. 64 bit of course.


at the very least anyway

I' d feel bad for you, but mine has virtual-memory issues when I play Fallout.

Its a lost cause, most here dont know what it is, and non have played it. Few will know there is a 3rd one in development, and little will know its being made by Bethesda!

I know what it is,haven' t played it for long though and I know that the 3rd one is coming and is made by bethesda :)

I also know when my birthday is , it' s ...oh shit...

...oh shit...

What Kind of Brithday is That!?