Rest in Peace Japanese Perfection...for PS3 is coming and...

just check this shit - http://ps3.ign.com/articles/716/716890p1.aspx

It' s really bad.In short they are happy that they can patch games cause this way consumers will be the beta testers and they don' t need to do it themselves.


FUCK PATCHING GOD DAMN IT

I know the 360 already does this, but not major patches.

I hope this is only Squaresoft that adopts this..

So does that mean there will be an area of lets say... unfinished texture in the
game, and then they will make a patch available?

Or are they just trying to add to the PS3' s LONG LIST of plus points?

They are just getting desperate to reduce development costs, is the PS3 that
expensive to develop for?

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Let him say what he wants.. Square Enix will test their games religiously before they get released.

ORIGINAL: Dyack

Let him say what he wants.. Square Enix will test their games religiously before they get released.

This is what I don' t get, a company says one thing, and people don' t believe
them.

Square have admitted the PS3 is a pain in the ass to develop for, and probably
costing them millions too. They are gonna want to scrape the bottom of the
barrell to find ways to reduce those costs, with leaving things out. The initial game
development won' t cost much, because they won' t be working against an
impending deadline.

That being said, once the game comes out, they can spend so much time,
carefree doing patches for bugs.

This could really kill a game. If they don' t have people test it, there are certain
bugs that stop the game from progressing, if that' s overlooked, Square and
parent company Sony will have to clean up this PR mess.

THAT is all speculation of course.

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Not everybody has an internet connection. They won' t release anything that isn' t deemed satisfactory.

some find oblivion satisfactory with all those bugs an glitces... It could be a huge problem for many people who value japanese quality games.

I hope you' re right though.

ahhhhhhhh WELL ff13 is still coming

DONT HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rest in PEACE Cetra and GANGSTA you guys will be missed..........

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

some find oblivion satisfactory with all those bugs an glitces... It could be a huge problem for many people who value japanese quality games.

I hope you' re right though.

What bugs and glitches?

hell, so much anger in me but calm down... they r going to give this a try so please everyone, for the greater good dont download the patches and complain so they drop this dumb idea

ORIGINAL: Chee Saw

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

some find oblivion satisfactory with all those bugs an glitces... It could be a huge problem for many people who value japanese quality games.

I hope you' re right though.

What bugs and glitches?

He doesn' t actually HAVE the game, he' s READ somewhere that there are a million (not an actual million) bugs and glitches. Something he claims is due to it being a PC developer/PC port title. He also says that the horses turning circle is unrealistic.

Seriously,i never experience a glitch or bug in Oblivion.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

He doesn' t actually HAVE the game, he' s READ somewhere that there are a million (not an actual million) bugs and glitches. Something he claims is due to it being a PC developer/PC port title. He also says that the horses turning circle is unrealistic.

Yes that' s what he means :)

And he saw Oblivion since then and agrees with IGN and Gamespot Editors that it' s a buglivion with glitches in AI and colission detection and so on.You guys must be blind.

I' m not saying that it' s a bad game in overall though.

There are minor collision detection problems and the only proper bug/glitch i' ve encountered is when i tried riding off the edge of a mountain and ended up landing in and getting stuck in a tree.

I haven' t encountered any of the bugs that hinder progress though although i' ve heard about them.

Same with me Majik,.i have the pc and 360 version.
There is no question whatsoever in mind that there must be a lot of bugs,since the world is so huge with so much items and A.I character living theior own life.
But in my 90 hour of gameplay i have yet to find even one bug.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I never played Oblivion, But i have played Tomb Radier 1!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I have both the X360 and PC versions too and I can say that the X360 version is practically flawless. The only bug I' ve encountered is during the thieves guild forgery quest. The Stranger wouldn' t complete my forgery no matter how long I waited (several days). So I just went off, did some other quests and by the time I came back he was ready to cooperate. And this was a one off too. My brother' s character didn' t have any problems at all with that quest. I havn' t encountered any significant AI glitches and clipping problems are apparant in just about every game out there.

However the PC version is the one I have encountered bugs in. Not gameplay bugs or anything like that, just stability and performance. This is due to the fact that there are millions of different PC configurations out there and to make a game that is that complex and completely scalable/stable is near impossible anyway. Some of the mods I have installed probably aren' t helping either.

some find oblivion satisfactory with all those bugs an glitces... It could be a huge problem for many people who value japanese quality games.

Oblivion is by no means perfect - no game is. But it is not as buggy as some people say it is. It feels quite solid to me and you' ve also got to realise that currently no game that is this complex has ever been attempted before. If you actually played the game for yourself for 10 hours or so you' d realise that not even the " perfect japanese developers" you talk about could have done a better job than Bethesda. Oblivion beats every other recent game in terms of AI, graphics, physics and complexity. Oblivion is a masterpiece (technological and gameplay wise) and I give huge props to Bethesda for making a reality.

you' d realise that not even the " perfect japanese developers" you talk about could have done a better job than Bethesda

While Japanese developers ain' t perfect - this my friend is bullshit, since Bethesda is known for bugs and shit.It' s what people know about their products way before they' re released.

Japanese developers (those great ones) have far better testing of their products while bethesda is a PC developer used to repairing their games on-the-go with patches.

I wonder how many games from Square did you play and found bugs or glitches in them, Resident Evil? Metal Gear Solid?

It' s cool to disagree but it' s even better to validate your point with some arguments.

And yes,this...

There are minor collision detection problems and the only proper bug/glitch i' ve encountered is when i tried riding off the edge of a mountain and ended up landing in and getting stuck in a tree.

...is what I' m talking about (not to mention framerate and lack of detail comparing to PC - that' s why I' m going t finish it on PC)

I don' t care how nicely modeled characters are if they can turn 180 normal way - cause this way it will never be believable.

I know I' ve said a lot of things about OB that are bad , but I' m really excited about spending more time with it - it' s just that I like to enjoy my products without stupid problems - and I just hate any visual glitches - I hate them (and PC devs are the ones who seem to love them, that' s why I' m always so hard on them)

While Japanese developers ain' t perfect - this my friend is bullshit, since Bethesda is known for bugs and shit.It' s what people know about their products way before they' re released.

Japanese developers (those great ones) have far better testing of their products while bethesda is a PC developer used to repairing their games on-the-go with patches.

I wonder how many games from Square did you play and found bugs or glitches in them, Resident Evil? Metal Gear Solid?

For the record, once when I was playing MGS3, after I defeated Fear the crossbow bolts stayed in my body for the rest of the game. I wasn' t able to remove them for some reason. But we' re getting away from the point.

I know Japanese developers make great solid games. I enjoy and play many of them. Every game has glitches regardless of where it' s made. And I know that Japanese games have a high standard of quality. But all those examples you gave don' t help your argument. I could also argue that Jade Empire, Half Life 2, Halo, etc don' t have any " glaring" glitches and therefore their developers are perfect. But they are extemely simplistic and linear when compared to Oblivion. They don' t have 24 hour constant AI schedules, complete physics systems, huge persistant free roaming worlds, hundreds of hours of voice acting and insane levels of detail.

It' s pretty obvious that Bethesda has done everything they could to balance load times, complexity and visuals. When the Japanese get off their asses and do something as complex as Oblivion and pull it off perfectly, I' ll shut up. But until then your argument is flawed too.

Gangsta the Elder scroll worlds has been about creating a mmorpg world into SP.

Its so huge its almost impossible to know where something can glitch or not.
however,i havn' t had any problem with OB.
And to call it glithcy is very dis-respectful.
There seem to be a lot of people who claim ob is glitchy and so buggy and trahs it,and they doesnt seem to have played it at all.

Btw check my gamertag,got 940 points off 1000 in OB,has done soon all guild quest,havn' t had any problem,nor did i have any at the thief guild as unlucky talked about.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I only had one very minor glitch after the first fighters guild quest, but it didnt hinder in anyway! Admit you have a fetich for all things japaneese Gangsta!

I could also argue that Jade Empire, Half Life 2, Halo, etc don' t have any " glaring" glitches and therefore their developers are perfect.

Half Life 2 is the only game taht you mentioned , that I can' t really bitch about - it' s top quality.Halo 2 had stupid glitches and jade empire wasn' t perfect too :)

I' m saying that huge japanese titles/bestsellers like Dragon Quest VIII are perfect comparing to huge US and EU bestsellers lke GTA IV.

It' s not unheard of.While I don' t like what' s going on with jRPGs lately - these games aren' t flawed as much as any american or european game.

KOTOR wasn' t a massive game but it was flawed like fuckin hell.

I like perfection and this I get from Japanese devs and very rare from US/EU people.

It' s pretty obvious that Bethesda has done everything they could to balance load times, complexity and visuals. When the Japanese get off their asses and do something as complex as Oblivion and pull it off perfectly, I' ll shut up. But until then your argument is flawed too.

You' re right , there' s no proof that Square would do Oblivion better - there' s only it' s software library that is always polished - even if the game itself is bad.
I love consoles for polished console productions from japan and some titles from US and EU that are amazing sometimes.

Can you compare people like CAPCOM,NINTENDO or old SEGA to Bethesda? yeah , you probably can, but that' s not a fair comparison - it' s a different league.

i doubt square-enix would do a better oblivion :P

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Halo 2 had stupid glitches and jade empire wasn' t perfect too :)

Every game has glitches! Including the " perfect" Japanese ones!

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=final+fantasy+glitches&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=metal+gear+solid+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=halo+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=half+life+2+glitches&btnG=Search&meta=

How can you turn a blind eye to Japanese ones yet rag on the Western ones? None of the games mentioned - be it Japanese or Western made - have glaring game breaking glitches. But they still do have glitches none the less. None of them are perfect. Are you just biased? Super fussy? Hypocritical? Or do Japanese made games just function as a placebo for you?

I played through all the games listed - Japanese and Western and didn' t notice glaring/severe bugs in any of them! What exactly do you define as a glitch then?

Here' s a point what qualifies as a glitch, bug etc that' s evident in oblivion? because I have seen it being played and didn' t see anything that would put me off it but i' m no professional.

There is bugs/glitches in Oblivion i mean there is places where you can sell and make unlimited money,or kill a certain NPC and steal his gold forever.

However no one will figure that out before someone wrotye it over the web.
Same with those Final Fantasy glitches that unlycky linked to,i played ff4-ff10 and missed all glitches.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

For the record, once when I was playing MGS3, after I defeated Fear the crossbow bolts stayed in my body for the rest of the game. I wasn' t able to remove them for some reason.

Yeah, same here! you could cure yourself, and they didn' t show up in FMV' s but all through the game i had a huge crossbow bolt sticking out of my bicep.

There will be bugs and glitches in every game, and as it stands, no one would be finding all of them if people didn' t like the game, and continue playing, regardless of little problems (or unfair advantages) like those.

How can you turn a blind eye to Japanese ones yet rag on the Western ones?

What I' m saying is that these titles are polished - I' ve never encountered any glitch or anything in most of them and so did 95% of people who finished them - I haven' t heard about anyone who played oblivion and didn' t at least notice some stupid npc behaviour or bug or stupid glitch - except kikizo comunity ofc but people here love their 360 :)

Yeah but dude, people often exaggerate shit like that. I think playing the game for yourself would be the best thing to do.

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made. Their best titles ever. And even those games have some minor bugs.
But then we have the standard japansese games and lots of them have many bugs and gliches and stuff.
The same thing goes for western games. Western AAA titles have bugs, but not many. Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs n' gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching and stuff later on. But other than that they' re pretty much the same.
Well, that' s what I feel anyway but maybe I' ve played the wrong games.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

...I think playing the game for yourself would be the best thing to do.

There' s a novel thought.

Someone judging a game based on what they heard or read is just silly.

For the record, Oblivion is a masterstroke. It' s better than all those games Gangsta mentioned, combined (except RE4)! Of course, this is just my opinion, but since my opinion is infallible...

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made. Their best titles ever. And even those games have some minor bugs.
But then we have the standard japansese games and lots of them have many bugs and gliches and stuff.
The same thing goes for western games. Western AAA titles have bugs, but not many.

I agree with that. Probably one of the reasons why Japanese developed games seem to be of a higher caliber is because only the really great ones get published over here. I' m sure that if you took into account all games on both sides there would be very little difference between Japanese developed games and Western developed games when it comes to glitches.

Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs n' gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching and stuff later on.

Being mainly a PC gamer I can' t fully agree with this. While I agree that sometimes the odd developer (Egosoft for example) can rely on the patch too much, it' s not often used as an excuse for crap games. Developers - be it PC or console would rather get it right the first time then have to continually spend resources to work on more patches all the time.

A lot of the time, whenever some new PC game comes out that pushes systems to the limit (HL2, Doom 3, etc), people will say that the engine is buggy/flawed because they can' t get a playable experience from it. The problem is quite often the users computer. Either they don' t meet a requirement, it' s overclocked to hell, their PC is full of spyware/virii, it' s un-optimized, they don' t have up to date drivers, etc.

PC' s aren' t consoles and people are quick to blame the developer/game rather than find out the sources of the problem on their own machines.

Sure, developers try to take into account as many different systems as possible and try to make the game scalable, but it' s not perfect. It' s very hard to program a game engine that scales perfectly. And yes there will always be bugs in any game but there' s not nearly as many as people say there are.

I don' t know Gangsta, do you have any idea of how many crappy titles the japanese are making? The ones you' re thinking of like MGS, Shenmue and Final Fantasy are the best AAA titles the japanese have ever made.

We' re comparing japanese AAA to Eu and US AAA - it' s been said before.

There' s a novel thought.

Someone judging a game based on what they heard or read is just silly.

Maybe , but when EVERY SINGLE editor points that out in his review - and I tend to read them to know stuff about product before I get it- then something is truly wrong.

And as you probably noticed in my previous post I' m rating oblivion very high and I' m going to finish it anyway.I think we were just talking about bugs here (and many of you forgot about it while blindly defending Bethesda with stuff like " I HAVEN' T SEEN A SINGLE GLITCH!!!" ..." Well ok maybe 1 or 5 but they were minor)

Oblivion is the newest and hottest title lately that suffers a lot from these problems (and yes I do not own it, but I' ve seen those bugs, glitches in action , I' ve read about even more of them and they ARE in this game wether you like it or not).

Being mainly a PC gamer I can' t fully agree with this. While I agree that sometimes the odd developer (Egosoft for example) can rely on the patch too much, it' s not often used as an excuse for crap games. Developers - be it PC or console would rather get it right the first time then have to continually spend resources to work on more patches all the time.

Being a well informed man I think that Xbox 360 Oblivion has already been patched with both good (improved framerate/360/ and some bugs eliminated) and bad (first of all if you have activated some buggy shit , you need to start game from the beginning after applying your patch/some loading issues have gotten worse on 360) features.What that means? oh it means ...

Developers who usually develop for PC tend to have more bugs and gliches in their games since they' re so used to patching later on.

I don' t get it guys what are you fighting for?

It' s a fact that Oblivion is flawed (more on 360 but it has same bugs on PC) - FLAWED A LOT.I' m not saying it' s easy to make a game like that,I' m not even saying that it' s a bad game - hell, I' m not even saying that those bugs ruin the experience.It' s got bugs and glitches (even after that new patch) and everyone knows this so live with it.

PC' s aren' t consoles and people are quick to blame the developer/game rather than find out the sources of the problem on their own machines.

You' re right , but there are countless glitches and flaws in those games that are left unrepaired by developers as well.

It' s more common on PC , cause anyone can make a PC game (not that it' s easy but you don' t need no special devkits and shit and it' s open source), but my point is - when you' re a PC dev and you make your game for a console, move that ass and have some respect for users, cause it' s a different market ,used to developers caring about their products and polishing them as much as possible.

God Damn you Bethesda Fanboys you made me sweat :)

Is it that hot in UK or Sweden? (it' s fuckin 35C in PL)

Let' s not get into comparing the 360 and PC versions of the game regarding bugs/glitches/known issues etc.

Since it' s release the 360 version had been patched/updated, which fixed many of the hinderance problems where people had gotten stuck and couldn' t procede with their quest.

The frame-rate in the outdoor areas has been much improved (the inside and contained outdoor areas have always been fine) and they weren' t THAT bad to begin with.

The loading times ARE slightly longer, but the removal of the loading slider (counter/whatever) from the actual loading screen doesn' t help matters as it SEEMS to make them even longer than they actually are.

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

That' s a nice wrap up of what I was saying and it' s almost 80% accurate - thank you :)

- some games for PC are so amazing that it hurts me inside when I can' t play them - Half Life 2 was like that, but I was able to finish this masterpiece on Xbox (my PC isn' t good for games).

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

The game DOES have glitches/bugs etc and we all agree on that. What i guess we aren' t agreeing on is the severity of said issues. Most of the things we could call bugs/glitches that you encounter and very minor (say collision detection or a hiccup in the Radiant AI) and some of the things like animals/creatures (horses specifically) turing circle being unrealistic that many of us would even notice, Gangsta picks up on.

We also know that Gangsta isn' t fond of PC ported games and i almost agree in some cases (rushed port of Quake 4 being a good example) but i think the variety is needed and when the developer REALLY makes an effort and produces a game like CoD2, you realise that it' s not a matter of PC developers in general, but individual studios being rushed or incompetant!

That' s a nice wrap up of what I was saying and it' s almost 80% accurate - thank you :)

- some games for PC are so amazing that it hurts me inside when I can' t play them - Half Life 2 was like that, but I was able to finish this masterpiece on Xbox (my PC isn' t good for games).

Mine neither. While it runs Half Life 2 and Doom 3/Quake 4 really well, other games (Prey for one) bring it to a crawl. I would consider investing tons of money in a new machine if it weren' t for 360 and PS3 and the increasing number of titles being ported to consoles.

I seriously want to be able to play Crysis and Medievil: Total War 2 when they' re released. I' m hoping for 360 versions and going off the positive reactions of BFME2 on 360 strategy games could even be fun on consoles.

Saying that, i' m buying Wii at launch and i haven' t been so excited about a machine since the Dreamcast. The thing is gonna kick ass!

Mine neither. While it runs Half Life 2 and Doom 3/Quake 4 really well, other games (Prey for one) bring it to a crawl.

I' d feel bad for you, but mine has virtual-memory issues when I play Fallout.

wow eddie, what kind of rig do you have for the MONSTER of a game?

quad geforce 7 sli with duel core porcoessors. 64 bit of course.


at the very least anyway

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I' d feel bad for you, but mine has virtual-memory issues when I play Fallout.

Its a lost cause, most here dont know what it is, and non have played it. Few will know there is a 3rd one in development, and little will know its being made by Bethesda!

I know what it is,haven' t played it for long though and I know that the 3rd one is coming and is made by bethesda :)

I also know when my birthday is , it' s ...oh shit...

...oh shit...

What Kind of Brithday is That!?

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!