All of you people that look back at Saturn and N64 and say they were great, puh-lease, did you actually own the consoles back then, or did you just buy it years after they came out? If you actually owned a Saturn or N64 during the 90' s you' d know the systems went MONTHS without even so much as a half-assed game being released

With the Saturn that stuff only applied if you weren' t importing. During the Saturn era I imported 98% of my games so I had absolutely No problems with the system. There were plenty good games to be had. The situation was quite dysmal in the U.S. and Europe though.

Yeah, and it makes sense that I have to go through the trouble of freakin IMPORTING to get quality games when theres another company with their system (PS1) staring at me in the face screaming " pick us, pick us, we actually release our games in the US!" ? Not to mention importing in the mid 90' s wasnt as easy as it is now where you just go online and pay with your credit card and the import arrives a week later, back then you either had to go to an import shop and get raped on the prices, or check magazine ads for some decent deals and not have your game shipped until 2-3 weeks after you payed for it. Overall it just wasn' t worth it, lets see I could import the Shining Force 3 scenarios that never made it to the US for 80 bucks each at an import shop (basically bending over and getting raped) or I could check out the alternatives on PS1, like Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, etc and get them for half as much and actually understand whats going on because its in my language? Obviously I went with option 2 and so did the majority of gamers.

Not to mention importing in the mid 90' s wasnt as easy as it is now where you just go online and pay with your credit card and the import arrives a week later, back then you either had to go to an import shop and get raped on the prices, or check magazine ads for some decent deals and not have your game shipped until 2-3 weeks after you payed for it. Overall it just wasn' t worth it, lets see I could import the Shining Force 3 scenarios that never made it to the US for 80 bucks each at an import shop (basically bending over and getting raped)

LoL, dude where the hell were you importing from??? I got a lot of my stuff from places like Flashbackinc.com among other places (Die Hard Gamers Club, etc.) and on average paid around $60 per game, sometimes even less, depending, and I got the stuff within 3 days :p. But then again I' ve NEVER been a fan of ground shipping. I have all the patience in the world with every other thing in life EXCEPT for shipping. I get too anxious when ordering stuff and can' t bare to wait a week or more, lol. I won' t even mention that I once paid $49 to get some game music CDs shipped via 2nd day from Germany as I couldn' t bear to wait the entire two week delivery time., lol. OH WAIT I just mentioned it!

Muhahaha. I laugh at Evil Man' s posts.

ORIGINAL: Terry Bogard

Not to mention importing in the mid 90' s wasnt as easy as it is now where you just go online and pay with your credit card and the import arrives a week later, back then you either had to go to an import shop and get raped on the prices, or check magazine ads for some decent deals and not have your game shipped until 2-3 weeks after you payed for it. Overall it just wasn' t worth it, lets see I could import the Shining Force 3 scenarios that never made it to the US for 80 bucks each at an import shop (basically bending over and getting raped)

LoL, dude where the hell were you importing from??? I got a lot of my stuff from places like Flashbackinc.com among other places (Die Hard Gamers Club, etc.) and on average paid around $60 per game, sometimes even less, depending, and I got the stuff within 3 days :p. But then again I' ve NEVER been a fan of ground shipping. I have all the patience in the world with every other thing in life EXCEPT for shipping. I get too anxious when ordering stuff and can' t bare to wait a week or more, lol. I won' t even mention that I once paid $49 to get some game music CDs shipped via 2nd day from Germany as I couldn' t bear to wait the entire two week delivery time., lol. OH WAIT I just mentioned it!

Saturn games in 95 were going for more than 60 a pop in japan, you didn' t buy anything for 60 unless it was old bargain bin crap in japan, no shop is going to buy a game for 60 dollars worth in yen and sell it for 60 and not make a profit, so dont be retarded, if you wanted a brand new import it wouldn' t cost less than $80, period. Even today when games are cheaper new imports still cost around $70. It disgusts me how people in here blatantly lie to try to get a point accross.

And you still have no point, ps1 had plenty of stuff to import as well, so? The only point you make is prove how pathetic the situation was that people had to resort to importing to get some games.

Saturn games in 95 were going for more than 60 a pop in japan, you didn' t buy anything for 60 unless it was old bargain bin crap in japan, no one going to buy a game for 60 dollars worth in yen and sell it for 60 and not make a profit, so dont be retarded, if you wanted a brand new import it wouldn' t cost less than $80, period.

And AGAIN you either have your time periods mixed up or were shopping at rip-off joints taking you for a ride. Mega Drive and Super Famicom cartridge games were the ones that cost $79.99 & up. I paid $120 for the Super Famicom version of Street Fighter II. CD-based games didn' t cost as much from the places I frequented. CDs in general don' t cost as much as cartridges do to produce. I bought Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus for the Saturn when it was first released and paid $59.99 for the game alone, with shipping it came out to around $65. I was heavily into importing games during the Saturn era and I NEVER once paid $70 and up for any of the new releases.

And you still have no point, ps1 had plenty of stuff to import as well, so? The only point you make is further prove how pathetic the situation was that people had to resort to importing to get some games.

In case you missed it I believe I already stated that the situation was pretty dysmal in the U.S. and Europe for Saturn owners. My one and ONLY point was that IF you were an importer during that era then the Saturn was a great console to own as there was a lot of support for it in Japan.

Not to mention importing in the mid 90' s wasnt as easy as it is now where you just go online and pay with your credit card and the import arrives a week later

For the most part I think it' s just as easy as it ever was. Back then whenever I saw import games I wanted on an online site, I picked up the phone, placed my order and the stuff arrived within a few days... Today you have more online store options. But I still do the same as I did back in the mid-90s, I see a game I want, I pick up the phone, call NCS and the item is in my hands the very next day... I' ve never been a fan of online shopping, I prefer to call them up, they tend to process my orders faster that way.

Paul lives in England so maybe he is confused about the prices? (Oops that' s not Paul. Hmmm..)

I imported a lot of Saturn games myself as well as a few PC Engine CD games like Dracula X and never paid more than $70 for the A-list titles (maybe $75 for Dracula X, I don' t remember). I bought a lot from Die Hard as well.

PS3 may indeed be a safe system to buy, but they are going to have alot of trouble from Microsoft. Microsoft has nearly an infinate spending budget when it comes to their products, and they can afford to lose more money then Sony can. Also one has to look

Evil Man states: Has complete and total consumer trust, PS1 lasted 6 years, PS2 is on its 5th year and still going strong, and by the looks of it is going to outlast both xbox and gamecube which are newer consoles. People aren' t afraid of buying a PS3 because they know it will last a long time, unlike with sega' s system, when I bought a DC I knew it was going to die in a couple of years, but Im a hardcore game so I dont care, however the average consumer does care about stuff like that.

True, but the MS is new in the console market. And if there is anything MS is good at, it is taking something and buying all competition. I have a feeling that PS3 will sell as many units as X360.

Concerning Halo 3. Bungie development team has grown vastly in size to allow for faster development of another sequel. I have faith that the game will be amazing.

I have very little faith in Halo 3. I pray that it will be good but Halo 2 was so horrible imo that I just can' t put faith in Bungie at this point. For my shooter fix I' m definately waiting for Gears of War.

Rampage99 you won' t believe this but I agree 100% with what you' ve just said :)

I don' t think it' s that easy to finish PS domination especially in Japan and it is a very important market - the one that Japanese Developers care about.
If PS3' s power isn' t as far from 360 as PS2 from Xbox (it might or might not be - don' t be fooled by Sony' s hype + Xbox 360 has some unbelievable hardware innovations all over it where as PS3 has a lot of power based on a new Cell CPU that is not optimised for gaming and nVidia GPU based on old technology) then it will be hard for MS to win No2 spot not to mention No1 (N Rev will be a big competition while PS3 will satisfy gamers wanting HD).

Anyway look where we are now - Gamers winning so much lately:

- You want a cool and fresh approach? NDS and Revolution are for you!
- HD Graphics with cool console experience and best series in the world (FF,MGS,DQ,GT plus more)? PS3' s waiting for ya!
- Amazing HD visuals above everything u' ve seen plus awesome online play and many cool games , new IP' s and many PC ports you were unable to play even though u wanted ? Xbox 360 baby.

Great times are coming cuz core gamers can now have lots of fun in HD graphics and online plus have some fresh Revolution gaming time anytime they want - I' m getting all 3 of them sooner or later :)

I' m not sure if i should laugh at what you said, or feel sorry for you..
Sony is not the great white hope it was in the 90' s, things have dramaticly changed for the company, and it' s seeing less profitability then it has in 10 years.
Just because you did' nt the have the fortunate chance to own either the sega saturn or the nintendo 64 doesnt give you a right to base your judgments on what games were on each system, and of what quality they were.

The playstation' s championship was completely by fluke, sega and nintendo were trenched in battles of marketshare, so fixated nintendo knowingly gave them years of research for the ill fated super famicom cd, sega was so affraid of the nintendo ultra 64, they loaned sony fabrications facilities and materials(such as first generation cases and optical equipment) In fact sony has had no real competition.
The xbox was not designed to steal market share, it was designed to cash in to the profitable entertainment industry.
And what do you think is going to happen now that both microsoft and the ailing nintendo have all sights on sony?
Who' s going to cut sony a break this time around?
Square?
Capcom?
Konnami?
All companies have decided to go multiplatform in some form or other, and ps2 sales have slowly decayed in the face of both nintendo and microsoft.

Now that microsoft has tasted profit, what else will they want?
...probably alot more profit.
Fabled power or not, microsoft is THE juggernaut of the buisness world, and sony knows it.
And i' m sorry to say, you will too.

They are not named " Square" they are named " Square-enix" remember they emerged?!
Anyway,if you think they gone multiplatform for just giving xbox360 a old ps2 port of a mmo then your way of,they pump out massive with ps2 titles and will be still be supporting ps3 heavily.
Yes iwata said they might think of going multiplatform,but as it looks like now,its not even possible,and remember sony owns 8% stocks in the company,its not known how much that means,and what sony gives them for offers,but they gonna have to deliver things to sony,atleast more then ever to xbox,and at this moment we only will see a bad ff11 game,that will not sell.
I mean a old ps2 port with updatde graphic,and then monthly fee beside the game price,when the console is new,who the fukk would even bother going a old mmo to a new console? Im one of square-enix biggest fan but i say never,they gonna lose big time on this.
If not ms pays a lot of that...
About Konami they gonna make a 360 game thats true,but still their best titles will go to ps3.
And i heard rumor about konami buying namco i think,or was that capcom?
Anyhow then there will be even more clear sony support.

Yes, im sure there will be support for the ps3 from square/enix, i know they " merged"
Some time ago.
Still has nothing to do with the fate of sony' s console, that company can' t carry sony forever, even if you like the games, people tend to changing taste after a while.
But you failed to nitice this marks a change in the way japan looks at the xbox console, maybe it' s not as dominant as sony/nintendo over there, but those are japanese firms, and might i add, only 10% of world wide software sales.
Microsoft more then makes a killing in the us and europe, not because people like microsoft, if you have ever been to the united states, people are always ragging(an american slang word for discounting) on microsoft, but they formed an agressive marketing strategy for both markets, and it worked big time!
Better then both sony and nintendo in the xbox' s short span of time.
I agree they neglected japan, but they never expected to make it in japan, hell they never expected the xbox project to make it out of q3, but it did, and it make microsoft a boat load of cash.
Now that they have a better strategy for japan, i will be you start to notice.
Nomatter what your buddy Ken Kutaragi keeps foaming at the mouth about, this isn' t just some company.
Sony can' t bully microsoft, and that worries them alot.
FF11 is being released on the 360 as a show of good faith, a way to capture market share for the company, and a perfect fit for square, xbox live is a much better online content service, and the world knows it.
So what better way to showcase an online game, then to go to the best online experiance ever.
It' s not like sony really has plans for online service anyway.
It' s a foreign idea to them.

It possibly is, however, I do not think that it will be easy - on the other hand, it will be a welcome change of pace. When SEGA dethroned Nintendo, as gamers we all benefitted. When Sony dethroned SEGA, yet again as gamers we benefitted (except for that episode with telling lies about PS2 being able to do Toy Story graphics and using them to destroy Dreamcast - the loss of Dreamcast was a loss for gamers everywhere). The point though is that in this business, change is good. We change systems every 4/5 years bacause change is good. That said, the PS2 has been one of the worst systems in gaming history - right after the N64. No change, no good. The system has had its great moments (I have the games in my collection as proof), but overall, from its launch, it has been a colossal letdown. Part of this problem is the stagnation of Sony, which has to a certain extinct sent stagnation throughout the entire industry - people tend to follow the leaders (ever notice how all the male executives in a given nation, will change their haircuts to match that of that nation' s leader within a year of election?) Humans follow leaders, until we get something that we percieve as better to come along, it' s simply what we do. Sony stagnated, and as a result the industry stagnated with it.

In all this, the Xbox has been a much needed breath of fresh air and fresh ideas. Not initially, but it grew as the company became more successful at making console software and spread its wings; the 3rd parties followed suit. And most gamers (especially the Western hardcore and ' urban' gamer) only in the last couple years have begone to realize this and respond positively to it. Right now, like it or not, the Microsoft machine is just beginning to get rolling; it' s just beginning to catch traction and its picking up momentum, full steam ahead. Here in the States, where people openly and publically expouse hate for Windows, are beginning to love and adore the Xbox - it' s the weirdest thing, but it is happening all the same. Whenever I go to retailers, it is most likely the Xbox they are out of stock of, than any of the the three consoles (followed by the DS). There can be no doubt that Microsoft is on a role and intend to parlay that roll into the next generation. Because of it' s numerous multimedia applications, the Xbox 360 is quickly becoming the next-gen system of choice amoung audio/video-files where that sector overlaps with gaming. And then there is the matter of software. This is extremely important and a lot of people, myself included felt that Ed Fries at MGS did a fantastic job. I mean, in less than a few years, they went from Azurik (super yuck) to Jade Empire (one of the best RPGs in history). Seeing him leave was a pain, and there was considerable worry about where Shane Kim would take the software - immediately he made some changes which pissed more than a few gamers off. He cancelled True Fantasy Online, and pulled the publishing plugs on Stranger' s Wrath and Psychonauts. He made statements that at the time made no sense, that the new focus going forward for MGS was not on making lots of games, but creating exclusive content for the Xbox system(s) that would drive the hardware and inspire 3rd parties to do so as well - in essence, the new direction of MGS was to create more games that would succeed at the same level as the Halo franchise (over 15 million copies sold and $600 million profitted). Well what could possibly be more true to that statement than games like TFO, Stranger' s Wrath and Psychonauts? The two of the three that eventually made it to retail, were both top notch games. Unfortunately, the both sold like azz - neither game made their money back. Then X05 and MGS finally began to show off what they have in mind when Shane Kim made those statements a year and a half ago. Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, and PGR3 are already million sellers - guaranteed. But add to that (for 2006 - no mention yet of holiday 2006 and beyond) Gears of War, Too Human, Mass Effect and Crackdown. And Shane Kim' s vision of a new and improved MGS begins to make a helluva lot of sense. Each of these games, and the developers creating, have solid opportunities of truly being the next Halo. I think that a lot of gamers have already pretty much made up their minds that GOW is the next Halo, but I feel that MGS is taking things a bit further and seriously working with some of the top game developers across the entire industry to create a series of games that as successful and as marketable as Halo or GTA; and that is important. With each and everyone of these titles being system exclusive, we finally return to an age in gaming that has not happened since 1994 - when first party exclusive content, drove a system. If you look at Sony, to this day, outside of Gran Turismo, Jakk and Daxter and a handful of others, they have no exclusive content to move hardware - all their superior exclusives (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, etc.) come from the 3rd parties, and eventually as we learned with Square dropping Nintendo, 3rd parties will always follow where the most money is. True right now that is with Sony, but the question is, can M$ equal or trump Sony in this department over the course of the next generation? When the marketshare numbers begin looking more like 60/40 splits, that' s when 3rd party exclusives begin to disappear. After that, the only real reasons left for gamers to continue to buy your platform is for your 1st party exclusives - this is the #1 reason why Nintendo is still around, their first party library is so strong and varied, that they always manage to sell enough systems and more importantly, software to remain one of Japan' s most profitable companies (in the last decade, they have even been honored on at least 5 occasions for this success by the Japanese government - despite having lost major marketshare to Sony and now Microsoft - they just simple sell enough software to stay grossly in the black).

MGS is betting big on 1st party exclusives, as well they should. As we learned from the GTA and Resident Evil 4 examples, the only true exclusive you have is the one you have 100% ownership over - despite exclusivities, 3rd parties are still free to take their titles where they want to as long as they either honor the complete terms of the contract or if they think that it' s more profitable to break contract than to remain under contract - that' s just simply how business works. By the end game, I think MGS' investment is going to pay off. More often than not, they are going to turn out games that rival Halo/GTA in popularity and sales. This in turn is going to move systems, which in turns, moves more software. Which in turns increases support from both retailers and 3rd parties, which in turn increases sale in both hardware and software.

Ultimately, by the end of the generation, I honestly see Microsoft and Sony positioned neck and neck in the marketplace. Sony has their name which will solidly continue to carry them - despite their inability to actually drive any true innovation. Sony will ultimately be handed their marketshare for no other reason than the fact they that they are Sony. Microsoft on the other hand, will have to actually earn (or purchase), it' s marketshare. But they are already making all the right steps to do just that. They have a truly remarkable machine that does so much more than just games; while at the same time, not compromising games for the sake of doing something else (like the PS2 did just to have a DVD player inside). They have the most solid online strategy that I have ever seen in over 20-years as a gamer (I' ve been gaming online since around 1982 when the only things out there were text-based MUDDs, and in all that time, nothing, and I truly mean nothing has even come close to rivaling Xbox Live (XBL) - and on November 22, Xbox Live is getting x10 better). Now that broadband is becoming widely accepted at all levels of society globabally and now that ultra-broadband is in full rollout stage across most of the developed world, online is the future for not only gaming, but entertainment. Right now, there are only two devices on the whole planet prepared to take on the task of fully exploiting the future of online entertainment - both are either owned or dominated by Microsoft. One is the PC that (unless you are running linux, OSX or BSD on) you are reading this post on right now, and the other will see it' s worldwide launch in November. XBL and wLAN will be the tie that binds these two instruments inextricably to each other. MGS understands the need to create internally produced and owned, exclusive software that will become phenomanons that will drive the hardware, and are following through with creating said software. M$ marketing teams have already proven their worth. They have helped Xbox go from zero to 40% marketshare (North America) 20% marketshare (globally) in under four years. M$ marketing departments are only going to turn up the heat moving forward. All of these things combined, plus a few things that I did not mention, are going to allow M$ to claw its way to an equal market footing as Sony over the next few years - after that, Sony really has to start to worry. Huge mistakes that Sony has been able to get away with in the past, simply because they had no serious competition, will quickly knock them into 2nd place, making similer mistakes against a competitor who is running neck and neck with them. Once the magic spot, of equal marketshare is reached with both companies, there will be little room for error amoung either.

The ultimate winner from it all will be me. That' s right dammit, I said me. I' m going to own all three systems (and any other game system that comes out too). And in an environment where you have two extremely powerful contenders, one desperately attempting to hold on to the top spot, and the other determined to take him down, then end product resulting from the battle is some of the best software that gaming has ever known. The last time anything this fortunate every happened to gaming was during the 16-bit era, and gaming truly hit it' s epitomy during the great battle of Nintendo and SEGA. Those of you too young to remember, or who were not yet gamers, you don' t have a damned clue just how good gaming can get - but starting November 22, you will begin to. Next fall (spring in Japan . . . perhaps), when Sony releases PS3, the battle is going to heat up so fast, everyone is going to feel all tingly and we' re gonna get some of the best software ever, if not the best software ever as a result. As stated before, once you hit that magic zone where the market is a 60/40 split, the sparks will fly and everyone will have to bring their " A" game, or go home. As gamers, especially multi-console gamers, expect to be broke, broke and broker by Xmas 2007. You' re going to have to start taking mortages out on boby parts just to keep up with all the good software - it' s gonna be great and I been waiting more than 10-years for it to happen again.

And all the while in the background, we are still going to have Nintendo, currently the most innovative game company in the world, bringing their " A" game too, plus more new ways to play than you can dream about. We are truly about to enter into a golden age in gaming, and for those of us who are not jaded or biased, those of us who open their hearts and minds to the possibilities, we are the true victors.

nice post, perhaps a little long, but I read it lol. I agree, it reminds me a lot of the Genesis vs SNES. Graphics close to the same, tons of awesome games released to compete. About the same amount Genesises and SNESes sold.

ORIGINAL: 3rdEchelon

We are truly about to enter into a golden age in gaming, and for those of us who are not jaded or biased, those of us who open their hearts and minds to the possibilities, we are the true victors.

Well said, 3rdEchelon. Your view about 1st party vs. 3rd party, and the dynamics of one bolstering the other was very insightful.

Don' t forget; along with our hearts and minds, we must also open our wallets! I' m in the process of spending about $7000 on a home theater system, but come 360 time, I' ll be spending probably another $1000!!

I know what you all are thinking, but don' t worry guys. When my dream theater (or " Chee Saw dojo" ) is complete, I' ll post pics!

We are truly about to enter into a golden age in gaming, and for those of us who are not jaded or biased, those of us who open their hearts and minds to the possibilities, we are the true victors.

Very well said Sir. And though your post was VERY long it was extremely insightful. I too have always purchased multiple systems, simply because I like games. I often frown on fanboys who say " XBOX this.. Sony that" ... and I think to myself these companies dodn' t even have to pay these people to expouse their marketing " dogma." Funny. I personally hope that any company that respects the medium of gaming does well. I do not want to see a singular console emerge and go unchallenged. Thats bad for business, and ESPECIALLY bad for us. So if Microsoft, Sony, and The N, have to declare business " jyhad" on each other, forcing the bar to be raised... then I' m all for it. Ah, I feel victorious, already.

Outside of Japan, it' s over for Sony. Unless you have absolutely no idea what you' re talking about, you may have realized this the moment Microsoft announced it would take on the console market. Microsoft always comes in with zero market share and works its way to the very top. It' s been that way for a while, thanks to great business on Gates' part.

Sony had a hit with the PS1 and PS2, but that' s not saying much when you consider the competition. You think the PS3 will sell well because it carries the next Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid? You' re crazy. Here' s how I see it: XBOX 360 is the new PS1, and PS3 is the new N64.

Yes,i mean ps2 only sold 30 millions in usa and 28 in europe,sony has no fanbase over here at all,no no,and psx sold before 33 millions here.
I see sony ads for ps2 at the biggest event in sports in europe uefa champions leauge,it has been so for many years,i have never seen any xbox ad.
Also when i visit xbox.com it says nothing about xo5 in the swedish section,while it does plenty in american section...excuse me?
Wasn' t xo5 a european event?Apperently not.
Ps3 is not over in europe,in fact i think its gonna win here big time.
But in Usa i think xbox360 might win.

i agree 100% with 3rd echleon. however you forget to mention that the Dreamcast was an innovative machine (and the 1st 128bit console) that had it' s unique features for innovative gaming. the highly ignored VMU was in my own opinion true genius. and SEGA did their best to give us online play with a 56k modem. and i' ve only experienced lag maybe 5% of the time i' ve play through 500 hours of phantasy star online.

my point is like you said...ps2 didnt offer any innovations that really warrented me to purchase it. more polys? sure, but not with those aliasing issues. and their resoultions still to this day can' t compare to the solid visuals the dreamcast was capable of. i popped in Shenmue on my Dreamcast about 3 days ago, and my jaw dropped then as it did when i first bought it. That game' s visuals and attention to details blew away 95% of some of today' s best offerings. only the games behind Team Ninja seems to have resoultions that remains on top of todays games. Playstation 2 has only a child' s handful of titles that offers innovations, but when i look at the Dreamcast, almost every SEGA game released on that system offered innovations on both technology, and gameplay. and that' s special for ' me' .

i bought the xbox because i knew certain sequals of my favorite games were xbox bound. that was good. but then they brought out xbox live....W O W! it was what i' d hope Sega would reach with the dreamcast if Seganet was still growing. and now ps2 rolls out their ' playonline' . where' s the innovations here? more like a downgrade. and now xbox 360 in coming out with yet again our magic word " innovation" , with online features that ' so far' blows the socks off any of the competition. im truely believing that sony really dont care to innovate their products towards this developing industry. like you said, their sitting back, laughing at the industry, letting their name pull in the big bucks. that' s sad. not for them, but for us as gamers.

im not to happy with this new nintendo controller...but at least i' ll admit, these guys are ' thinking' about gaming, and the possibilities that can be given to gamers. and they chose to do this with their controller, as the xbox is doing with xbox live.

what about sony? more polys and cleaner textures? common...that' s not really selling me at the moment. well, at least they got over their aliasing issues. hopfully the games will be different this time around.