720p vs. 1080i

Hey Joe, in ' Working Man' s Nightmare' , the office space looks just like that from the first Matrix movie!

I' m not at liberty to post the professional stuff online, but if something pops up, I' ll link to it. This Friday we are shooting a commercial for some type of chocolate to be sold at Albertson' s.

You can see a few of my " just for fun" videos on Youtube at:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=redifer&search=Search
They are pretty old and I haven' t updated in a long time. Someone has a video of their mom playing a song I wrote or something... I did not videotape that or upload that.

Working Man is beige instead of Matrix green. :)

It' s amazing how this Green palette set the mood for entire movie - many people will tell you that it looks great and has some kind of integrity, but they don' t realise it' s just this green color.

You didn' t even answer my question about the 300 pound TV.

Like I said it' s common sense, I don' t need to explain it.

Why does no one buy vynil anymore, because no one wants a huge disc, why does no one buy a 300lbs HDTV, because no one wants a huge TV.

It' s really simple logic. Are you incapable of thinking on your own and figuring simple things out?

But again you are retarded so I don' t expect more. As for kyo, he simply doesn' t know what he' s talking about, it' s that simple. If you want an explanation, google some of the terms he uses, learn what they are, and come back here and laugh at him because he has no idea what he' s talking about. Or go to any of the hundreds of HDTV forums out there and make the claims he does, you will be banned from half of them just for being so fucking stupid and talking about things you know nothing of.

My question is what make and model this 300 pound TV was, not why people don' t buy CRTs. Your answer has nothing to do with my question. Looks like you' re the one who is retarded here. But we' d all expect nothing more from you since you can only back up yourself by insulting others than with facts.

You have a severe disability to present any facts to support any argument you ever make on any subject. Why do you even post on this forum? Answer that, too.

The answer to both of these questions is: " Evil Man doesn' t know" .

Joe,Evil man doesn' t know!

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Evil, i don' t know what you do for a living, but say you were a doctor (right!), i wouldn' t question your expertise in a medical situation, because you' re (hypothetically) a doctor. I' d listen to you and learn.

Joe works in the audio/video industry. He' s already stated that he shoots HD commercials. Everybody here knows he knows what he' s talking about, and you arguing with him is only making you look foolish

especially when you lack arguments and he gives you good explanation for all your yelling and screaming.

Wasn' t Evil Man some kinda engineer at Intel or something?
Maybe I was just dreaming that....
I see him often in my nightmares...
...he should stop using that Morpheus avatar. It' s scary!

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Wasn' t Evil Man some kinda engineer at Intel or something?
Maybe I was just dreaming that....
I see him often in my nightmares...
...he should stop using that Morpheus avatar. It' s scary!

I actually suspect he' s a 19 year old au pair.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Wasn' t Evil Man some kinda engineer at Intel or something?
Maybe I was just dreaming that....
I see him often in my nightmares...
...he should stop using that Morpheus avatar. It' s scary!

I actually suspect he' s a 19 year old au pair.

I' m thinking younger, judging by this

He was really friendly back then, so maybe he just hit puberty or something and can' t deal with all the changes?

Back then the forum wasn' t full of retards. I' ve been here longer than most of you kiddos, and this place wasn' t full of dumb fucks so I treated everyone accordingly.

Majik - what' s your point? I' ve worked with " Computer Science" Engineers that I had to teach how to configure they' re e-mail addresses on outlook express. You' d think they' d know, they' re geniuses in one thing but complete fucking idiots on another, that is probably the case of joe - he really doesn' t know what he' s talking about when it comes to TVs, we don' t even know if he' s good at what he does actually.

I' ve seen musicians reccomend iPods, oh wow theyre musicians they must know what is good and isn' t - they don' t. They record music, not review portable music players, and ipods suck ass. I don' t even see how you make a connection, working for a company that shoots commercials makes you an HDTV expert?

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

Evil, i don' t know what you do for a living, but say you were a doctor (right!), i wouldn' t question your expertise in a medical situation, because you' re (hypothetically) a doctor. I' d listen to you and learn.

Then you are retarded, alot of doctors don' t know what they' re doing. You should have enough basic know-how to know when someone is bullshiting, what Joe (and especially Kyo) say about HDTVs, is like a doctor saying drinking rat poision is good for your health - I don' t care about their experience, work, degrees, career, whatever - some things are just simply incorrect.

Take a few hours to browse the internet and inform yourself about HDTVs from credible sources, not some loser that makes half-assed commercials. If you do this you will see Joe/Kyo are wrong, and it' s not complex, just some BASIC knowledge and common sense will have you arrive at that conclusion. I don' t simply pull information out of my ass, everything I say about HDTV' s is simply a re-iteration of what actual experts say, unlike some of the guys here that live in a fantasy world where progressive scan images look better on interlaced displays.

Evil Man, I dare you to respond to each of the following points (if you even can):

#1 - How do you know the commercials I shoot and edit are half-assed? Do you know which commercials I do? Do you think commercials are ALL I do?

#2 - Prove my knowledge wrong about HDTVs. Make me look like an idiot in front of everybody. Don' t just SAY I' m wrong. Back it up with facts. You' re all talk and no shock, dude. Of course it' s easy to act like a tough guy on the internet.

#3 - If the forum is full of retards now, why do you keep coming back? Unless you really like hanging out with retards or are perhaps one yourself. This really is an important question and I' d like to know your answer.

#4 - You STILL have not answered my question about the HDTV make and model number. It is now PROVEN that you don' t know what you are talking about.

OK the ball' s in your court now, Evil Man. Show us all how smart you are and how dumb I am. Prove it. Do it. Oh, you can' t? I am betting that you don' t even respond to all of my points, if any at all.

You are a very patient man Joe :)

I actually suspect he' s a 19 year old au pair.

Now, now Majik...

That' s totally uncalled for..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Evil Man.logic = NULL

Anyways...
We just got a 65" 1080P DLP and it looks better when it is set to 1080i than 720p since the native resolution is 1080.

It is pretty cool being able to play 4 player split screen and still have bigger screens than on our 32" LCD.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Hmm I haven' t thought about it this way... with 100" screen from projector each player would have a 50" screen.

So how do 360 games look on a 1080p? are there any differences that you' ve noticed?

Well it isn' t really 1080P its 1080i converted to 1080p.

Oblivion just looks amazing. My friend bought one of the extra things with the huge tower that overlooks everything and went to the top of it and looked down on everything. Wow, it was just amazing.

The contrast ratio on this TV is a lot better so that makes things look better. Otherwise there isn' t much of a difference. Games look slightly sharper when set to 1280x720 on my 2 ms monitor. This is due to no scaling taking place.

In terms of sharpness DVD' s and regular TV look about the same as on our 32" 720P (1366x786 native) LCD. The contrast and size of our 65" DLP make them look better than on the LCD though.

The TV makes our room seem small.

So now we have a 65" 1080P DLP TV, 32" 720P 8 ms LCD, 32" flatscreen CRT SDTV, 27" curved CRT and also my 20" 1280x1024 2 ms LCD. For consoles we have 3 Xbox 360' s, an Xbox 1 and a Dreamcast. We also have a laptop with MCE on it and I found this thing that let' s you stream divx and xvid to the 360 (everything we have is networked). We haven' t tried that out yet though. We also have another computer connected to the TV to play movies like that.

It is tempting to set the 65" TV on it' s side and play Ikaruga how it is supposed to be played.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

ORIGINAL: Joe Redifer
#1 - How do you know the commercials I shoot and edit are half-assed? Do you know which commercials I do? Do you think commercials are ALL I do?

I' m simply judging by the general lack of knowledge and common sense you show in these forums, surely someone so fucking stupid couldn' t produce quality material. You are hinting that you do something else besides commercials which means you go on an off between jobs because no one wants your services for any prolonged period of time.

#2 - Prove my knowledge wrong about HDTVs.

That' s easy,
a) You agree with Kyo, which makes you an idiot because everything he said is wrong.
b) you make assinine statements about how a 1368x768 TV upscaling a 720p image by 3% (I' m counting overscan in its favor) makes it " trash" . That' s something only a noob that doesn' t know what he' s talking about would say, you can' t even acknowledge that for someone who wants to hook up their PCs to an LCD they want that resolution in the first place. Instead of saying something informative like " well, I prefer native 720p, but 768p only upscales the image by 3% making it almost impossible for the human eye to detect a difference, and it' s also a better native resolution for PCs" but no you just call it trash - because you dont know what you' re talking about.

I for instance use my 768p LCD for PC -AND- TV/Consoles, they are both equally important to me to have hooked up, if I had a 720p TV I wont have the best rez for PCs, and if I get a 768p I wont have the best rez for PCs - having to choose between the two I go for 768 because I cannot detect a difference in the 3% upscale, and I like to have a good rez for content coming off my PC. You' d never hear me say " oh 720p TVs are garbage because I dont have one and 768p suites my needs better" .

#3 - If the forum is full of retards now, why do you keep coming back? Unless you really like hanging out with retards or are perhaps one yourself. This really is an important question and I' d like to know your answer.

Because I can.

#4 - You STILL have not answered my question about the HDTV make and model number. It is now PROVEN that you don' t know what you are talking about.

I don' t keep a record of model #s on TV, I don' t even remember the model #s of the TVs that I personally OWN, much would I for a discontinued interlaced TV. I' m sure if you look around for discontinued CRTs on the internet you' ll find the model #.


As for DLPs I' m looking to get one soon too, if I can still return my 1080p LCD, think its only been 2-3 weeks since I go it so I should be able to.

Haha! Just the answers I would expect from a 14 year old. You haven' t proven that you' re smart or that I' m stupid... you' ve only proven that you disagree with me. Your answer to my question #1 is hilarious. You assume that all my job is about is to shoot commercials. My company simply CAN' T do other things so I must go other places and do other things. Awesome! And you revert back to insulting me, which means you are incapable of talking like an adult. But then again you ARE 14.

I' ll address some other stuff later.

As for the model number of the " best reviewed HDTV" , if you can' t remember the model numbers, how do you know it isn' t the one I own?

As for the 720p to 768 scaling, I' ll explain this like an adult, let' s see if you respond with something other than the child-like comments you like to throw out.

I made some quick images for everyone to look at. The images themselves aren' t of anything special, just a bunch of tiled screens from an emulator because I wanted to start from an uncompressed pixel for pixel image and not some crappy image (like a JPEG) to best represent my point.

[url=" http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/720.png" ]Click here to see the 720p image (1280x720)[/url]

[url=" http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/768.png" ]Click here to see the same image scaled up by 3% to 1365x668 (which is not a recognized HDTV format)[/url]

Notice how the 768 version is noticeably more blurry. If it looks fine to you, then that' s great! But to me it is not acceptable. Different TVs use different methods of scaling the image, and they all result in differing quality.

[url=" http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/scaling.png" ]Click here to check an image comparing different scaling methods.[/url]

This image is sized 200% to better illustrate my points. The original 1:1 is a small sample taken from the 1280x720 image, and the rest were taken from the 1365x768 image upscaled in various different ways. Observe.

The original 1:1 is pixel perfect in every way. No distortion anywhere. Everything is represented exactly as the source is, pixel for pixel.
Bicubic resampling is the best way to scale (which is also what the large 1365x768 link above used), but it still results in some loss of sharpness and also introduces some artifacts as a result of the scaling. Notice the new grey lines above the score box that are not in the original image.
Nearest Neighbor doesn' t seem to lose anything in sharpness, but you do get new pixels that don' t belong. Look at the round, green orb thingy in the lower left. It has quite a few new big, black pixels at various points around it that is not in the original source material. As the screen moves or scrolls, these extra nastified pixels will become very apparent. I don' t think too many if any TVs use this type of scaling.
Bilinear resampling is a pretty bad form of scaling as well. It has all of the same stuff introduced to the screen as bicubic, but it also adds and extra layer of blur. Many TVs do this because it is very quick and easy. And speed is important when dealing with common lag time found in LCDs and DLPs.

Overscan is irrelevant as the image is still being scaled by 3%. If the image was being displayed at 1280x720 and the rest of the pixels were beyond the border of the screen, then it is not being scaled at all. But most LCD, DLP and plasma TVs have little to no overscan these days.

Now again, this may all be fine for you, and if it is, that' s great! I personally don' t like it. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn' t mean they are a dumb fuck who can' t keep a job and is a complete loser. Only someone with the inability to express his viewpoints would say stuff like that. I am prepared for your angry childish insults and fanboy-ish remarks. Or you could try talking like an adult to express your points, but somehow I don' t think you are capable of doing that.

EVIL:I would expect you to know how to add nonstandard resolutions to your PC (like 720p) - I guess you' re not that well oriented PC owner after all.

Notice how the 768 version is noticeably more blurry. If it looks fine to you, then that' s great! But to me it is not acceptable. Different TVs use different methods of scaling the image, and they all result in differing quality.

I didn' t think it was that blurry compared to the first one....

eh... uh....

...I have bad eyesight though.

I also didn' t notice differences , but my desktop res it 1400x1050 so maybe it was noticable on 1024x768.

Thankfully I know how it should looks with even minor scalling and can' t deny that Joe is right.That' s why I ask him whenever I have any Video/audio question.

It was extremely easy to tell for me. I do have 20-10 vision though. It would be interesting know the distance/size/resolution images have to be for a person of 20-20 vision to be able to tell the difference.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

That image is a pointless example, you' re showing it off to people who are probably 1 foot away from their monitor, if they step back another 7 feet simulating actual distance for TV-viewing it would be impossible for them to detect the difference. On a medium/large size HDTV you have to view from afar, if you get close enough to detect the difference in those images you are already too close for optimal TV watching.

If you have HD programming the image is fed to you with overscan, yes nowadays they dont need to do that but theres still people on TVs with overscan issues so they still do. When a 720p TV loses say 20 lines, a 768 loses none and upscales the image to fill the few extra lines left.

You assume you' re blowing up 720 lines to 768 but its more like 740 lines to 768.



Gangsta - Some games dont run properly on non-standard resolutions no matter what you do with your video settings. Excuse me for not being able to re-code the game to fit my needs.

Thank you for your well-mannered reply. I agree that the optimal viewing distance will be much further away than one sits from their computer monitor. But to compensate for the increased distance, screens must get larger as you pointed out. So it is more or less the same difference. The optimal viewing distance is about 1 and a half to two screen heights away from the monitor/television/movie screen. If you get too terribly much further away than that, then not only will you not be able to tell the difference between scaled/non-scaled material, but you' ll also start to lose the advantages in the extra detail provided by HDTV.

Evil Man kicked ass

Gangsta - Some games dont run properly on non-standard resolutions no matter what you do with your video settings. Excuse me for not being able to re-code the game to fit my needs.

OK I didn' t know that.I thought PC games are completely customisable.I know you can do it for movies and other stuff though.

Evil Man kicked ass 

I hope that' s sarcasm...

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

It better be.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I' d like to point out once again Joe' s hypocrisy. He says he can' t stand the upscales from 720 to 768p but he is perfectly fine with the upscale from 1280x720p to 1920x1080i - which is about 900 times more noticeable.

Considering most games this gen are/will be 720p that upscale would be atrocious wouldnt it joe? You get a blown up piece of shit image and on top of that it' s interlaced, LMAO.

I' m waiting for you to reply with another brainless half-assed reason why upscaling 720p to the ass-tastic 1080i, a 33% upscale that loses progressive scan in the process, is superior to the unnoticable 3% upscale from 720 to 768.

That time of the month, Evil Man? It took you two weeks to even reply, so I assume you' re just looking for some more fun. You aslo seem to be dragging information from who knows where because I don' t see where I said that upscaling from 720p to 1080i is " perfectly fine" . But this really seems to be bothering you. At least I don' t suck at driving and parking.

Notice how he avoids the question.

Hypocrite.

You preach 1080i and downplay 768p for the sole reason of a 3% upscale, yet you' re fine with a 33% upscale of 1080i because you reccomend them over 768.

And intentionally going on an HOV lane to save 40 minutes of time is sucking at driving? This just confirms you don' t even own a car as you have no idea what you' re talking about.

I learned the art of avoiding the question from you. Why did it take you two weeks to respond?

Show me where I praise 1080i in all of its glory. I am sad to see you turn back into an ass again. You were doing so well, too!

It' s simple.

You claim 768 is trash.
You reccomend 1080i.

By this, one can see that you prefer 1080i.

Yet, the reason you dont like 768 is because of a 3% upscale. But wait, 1080i has to upscale ten times more on the same source. Hypocrisy at it' s finest.

Here is the true story of Evil Man:


I am sick of arguing with you. That' s all you ever want to do with anyone. Seriously. You have issues. You can claim I am wrong all you want, that' s fine by me. You can have fun arguing with yourself (your other personality being that Emo guy).

Actually it all makes sense to me now - you prefer 1080i because you are poor and that' s all you can afford, you don' t actually have a reason. You' re just mad at people that can afford technology not from 80 years ago.

And we know you' re poor because you' re an old fuck that still doesn' t even own a car.

1+1 = 2

You have no argument, I know. I exposed you and you hide behind little drawings trying to grasp on to whatever shred of dignity you still have left, pathetic.

Hey now don' t make fun of my HDTV which I bought in 1926! That was a prime year for HDTVs I say!

But if you want to talk hypocrisy, let' s look at you, Evil Man. I noticed this the other day but didn' t post it because you weren' t starting shit with me at the time. But now since you did, all' s fair:

September 16th - " Post your picture!"

Originally posted by Evil Man:

So that just further confirms that he' s gay, only a pussy fag uses forums features like ignore.

September 29th - " Cheap model PS3 a better value"

Originally posted by Evil Man:

You' re right, I just added him to my ignore list he' s pretty useless, just comes to talk shit and doesnt debate the argument we' re talking about.

Either Evil Man is a hypocrite, or he is a gay pussy fag. Take your pick. Either way Evil Man = Owned!

Oh owndizzle!

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."