Do you think this would have been a generation of sub-par FPS' s? There has been some pretty good shooters like Rainbow Six 3 and Counterstrike, but nothing really great, IMO. And take out Live and perhaps even RS6 and CS would have been forgotten by now. So what' s your opinion on the matter?

Yes, without LIVE these would have failed, but that' s because most shooters are not as enjoyable in single player as they are in multiplayer. But it has been an OK time for FPSs. But games like Half Life2, Halo 2, Killzone, UC2, and MechAssault 2 will most likely make up for this.

Isn' t there a new TimeSplitters game being made? I hope so. TS2 was damn good and very fun.

yes, timesplitters 3: future perfect is being made.( there' s a vid, too)

and halo isn' t all it' s cracked up to be. yes, it' s got awesome ai, but at it' s core, it' s still just another fps. i think people who praise halo so much are too blinded by their fandom to admit its flaws.

Halo brought in a new generation of FPS' s so I think it' s understandable why people praise it so. It' s one of those games that every new FPS will be compared to, at least on the console front. Sure, it really did nothing new but it did those things very well.

that' s true, but it' s just overrated, imo.

No. TimeSplitters 2, Medal of Honor: Frontline, MoH: Allied Assault, Far Cry, Unreal Tournament 2k4, Red Faction, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and Unreal Championship are all great FPS' s. Contrary to popular belief, Halo is not the be-all and end-all of gaming.

I thought Far Cry and UT2k4 weren' t out yet? And defeinitely not out on consoles.

Aside from the above mentioned games, those other FPS' s won' t even have a summarization in the history books. Whether or not you think they' re great is your opinion, but Timesplitters 2 received one of the biggest tongue lashings I' ve ever seen for a FPS because of the controls. Both MOH games are considered sub-par, simplistic, and get zero mention when tales of great FPS' s are told. Red Faction was good before Halo came out, now it' s a joke. RF2 was even worse. Unreal Championship might be great on the PC, but didn' t wow many X-Box owners in the long run. And as for Wolfenstein, take out Live and you have a game no one would be talking about. Again, if you think those games are great, that' s your opinion. But when great FPS' s are spoken of, no one speak of any of those titles.

Aside from the above mentioned games, those other FPS' s won' t even have a summarization in the history books. Whether or not you think they' re great is your opinion, but Timesplitters 2 received one of the biggest tongue lashings I' ve ever seen for a FPS because of the controls. Both MOH games are considered sub-par, simplistic, and get zero mention when tales of great FPS' s are told. Red Faction was good before Halo came out, now it' s a joke. RF2 was even worse. Unreal Championship might be great on the PC, but didn' t wow many X-Box owners in the long run. And as for Wolfenstein, take out Live and you have a game no one would be talking about. Again, if you think those games are great, that' s your opinion. But when great FPS' s are spoken of, no one speak of any of those titles.

Thats perfectly said.


HALO is the BEST FPS on any console.It did everything other games tried to do.
The vihicles in FPS' s never had good controlls and it wasnt fun driving them.In Halo vihicles are one of the best features.Its fun just crashing the warthog' s.
Even Far Cry doesnt have good vihicle controlls or phisics.

I never liked FPS' s on PC.The only one i injoyed was Operation Flashpoint.
As for Unreal,I always hated these games,they are toooo fast and stupid.

lotusson, I would STRONGLY suggest you do some research before making such statements.

TimeSplitters 2:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/timesplitters2/review.aspx

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/373/373633p3.aspx

GameRankings Average: 90.0%

There' s your " tongue-lashings" for that one.

Medal of Honor: Frontline

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/medalofhonorfrontline/review.aspx

(notice that whole " Editor' s Choice" thing)

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/361/361335p2.aspx

GameRankings Average: 85.6%

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/medalofhonoralliedassault/review.aspx

(Gee, is that another " Editor' s Choice" I see?)

http://pc.ign.com/articles/165/165983p1.aspx

GameRankings Average: 91.5%

" Both MOH games are considered sub-par, simplistic, and get zero mention when tales of great FPS' s are told."

Uh-huh. They' re only two of the highest-scroing games ever.

Far Cry and UT 2k4 are not out on consoles, but I' m sorry, does that mean they don' t count? Oh, and just so you know, more 9' s and Editor Choice awards accompany these titles. And you were dead wrong about MoH and TS. There are a lot of great FPS' s this generation, some of which I liked more than Halo. Your question of this being a " sub-par" generation for FPS' s is downright absurd, seeing as how many critics clearly believe that this is the BEST generation for FPS' s...with, or without, Halo.

All the last gen. really had was a UT title and Half-Life. Before that, the genre was in its infancy stage. And now, DOOM 3 is on the way. Heck, Chronicles of Riddick is essentially an FPS, and that' s already here (9.3 at GS, rave reviews elsewhere). This is by far the best generation of FPS' s, and it would be if neither Halo or Halo 2 existed. Those are just more icing on the cake.

Fathoms, I looked all those up before I even attempted to reply.

Timesplitters 2 - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
The only game in the bunch to reach 90% and is still one of the most laughed at FPS’s on the market.

MOH Frontline - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
An average of ‘B’ is decent -- not great. Ultimately it’s forgettable, and has been.

(notice that whole " Editor' s Choice" thing)

Metal Slug 3 won Game of the Month yet is averaging 77 %
http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp

“Editor’s Choice” means little.

MOH Allied Assault -http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
Not on console. Don’t care.

MOH Rising Sun - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
Horrible reviews.

Red Faction - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
Again, nothing special and has long since been forgotten.

RtCW - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
Average of a B is again nothing to shout about. Plus take out Live and that score would drop even further.

Unreal Championship - http://gamerankings.com/itemrankings/itemsearch.asp
Another B average but also suffers from horrible framerate problems and lag on Live.

Far Cry and UT 2k4 are not out on consoles, but I' m sorry, does that mean they don' t count?

As I’m only talking about console FPS’s -- yeah, they kinda don’t.

Oh, and just so you know, more 9' s and Editor Choice awards accompany these titles.

The only console FPS to get a 9 is Timesplitters 2, and it’s still one of the most made fun of shooters in history.

And you were dead wrong about MoH and TS. There are a lot of great FPS' s this generation, some of which “I” liked more than Halo.

Your question of this being a " sub-par" generation for FPS' s is downright absurd,

Not really. Every console FPS shooter you just listed has long since been forgotten throughout the realm of FPS fanatics. I’m talking about GREAT FPS’s. Not games that got people excited for the time, but games that lasted. Halo 1 is the only FPS still drawing attention since it’s initial release. Heck, it’s still the only FPS shooter where tournaments are still held across the country. Not a single other console FPS of this gen can say that.

Hell, have you ever seen a nationwide Timesplitters 2 tournament? Hell, has there ever been a media recognized tournament for Timesplitters 2 anywhere?

seeing as how many critics clearly believe that this is the BEST generation for FPS' s...with, or without, Halo.

Yes…. if you add in PC games and games that haven’t been released yet like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. In the realm of console games this hasn’t been a great generation for FPS shooters at all. Nothing mind blowing. Nothing revolutionary. Nothing besides Halo.

Chronicles of Riddick is essentially an FPS,

It’s played in first person, but is far from a first person shooter. You’ll go hours without touching a weapon. And some people have beaten the game in less than 8 hours. Not saying Riddick isn’t good, but great? -- naw.

Halo or Halo 2 existed. Those are just more icing on the cake.

I find that hard to believe since Halo 1 is still the only FPS drawing any attention from the gaming media in regards to console FPS’s that have been released.

How can you even argue that MOH series is good? The AI is a joke, the sound and graphics are horrible, and the physics are laughable.

lotusson, I' d like you to list these sources of where all these FPS' s are " laughed at," when all the real sources of reviews have given them extremely high reviews. GameSpot and IGN don' t normally give a " laughable" game high 8' s and low 9' s. TimeSplitters 2, regardless of online activity, is one of the most well-thought-of games out there. You' d know that if you were in the GS forums last year when a thread of over 1000 replies was made regarding the customizable map-making. So find all these sources of yours that call it " laughable."

Second of all, you mentioned Rainbow Six and Counterstrike in your original post, and to me, those count as PC games. FPS is still the best possible platform for FPS, and although personally I' d rather play on a console, this is a widely accepted fact. Heck, IGN just slammed the Xbox version of DOOM 3 when thrown into a compare and contrast version vs. the PC. So I listed Allied Assault, UT 2k4, and Far Cry, and if you knew any real PC fanatics, every last one of them would say they ALL stand on near-equal or flat-out equal ground with Halo. Do you really think that nobody plays UT 2k4 online? Time to check out some server numbers, my friend.

And if you want to say that Red Faction is a " joke" now, go right ahead. I don' t call the original Super Mario Bros. or the original Gran Turismo or the original Zelda " jokes," just because they' re outdated now. I go by what was available at the time, and it was the best FPS available on consoles, another WIDELY-accepted fact among game critics.

Finally, exactly what was so great about last generation? Goldeneye? Perfect Dark? Medal of Honor? All great FPS' s, but am I missing something? You don' t want to count PC FPS (which makes virtually no sense, seeing as how it is THE platform for it), so what else was there in the FPS realm on consoles last generation? ANY generation? Taking a line from you, all those old FPS' s are now " jokes" , yes? Or are you contradicting yourself?

I know that Halo worshippers think the world revolves around one game. I realize that they think that nothing can ever touch it, and it' s invincible (' cough' hype for Halo 2 ' cough' ). I realize objectivity goes right out the window when discussing the " legendary" Halo. But you want to know what I think?

-- The ultimate copout in development design by refusing to create new levels at the end, and just have the player run back out the same way they came in.

-- The inside environments...could they BE any more repetitive?

-- So, we take first-person mode, change to third-person for use of vehicles, and......keep first-person control? Who' s grand idea was this?

-- Am I walking or running? It doesn' t seem to matter...I may as well be crawling on both counts. You want a speedy FPS? Play the new UT.

I played it through once, and I' m very glad I did. It' s one of the best ever, and probably the best FPS for console ever. But it' s not perfect, not by a longshot, and it doesn' t deserve this insane following. You scream about letting everyone have their opinion, so don' t freak out when I voice mine. I' d give Halo a review score somewhere in the low 9' s, and there are about a half-dozen games this generation I' d give higher scores to.

And there are other great FPS' s. The review scores speak for themselves, whether there are " worldwide tournaments," or not.

lotusson, I' d like you to list these sources of where all these FPS' s are " laughed at," when all the real sources of reviews have given them extremely high reviews.

Find where I said all those FPS’s are laughed at.

TimeSplitters 2, regardless of online activity, is one of the most well-thought-of games out there.

So care explaining why no one talks of it now?

You' d know that if you were in the GS forums last year when a thread of over 1000 replies was made regarding the customizable map-making. So find all these sources of yours that call it " laughable."

Link?

Second of all, you mentioned Rainbow Six and Counterstrike in your original post, and to me, those count as PC games.

Both of which have appeared on the X-Box. I made no mention of PC FPS’s.

FPS is still the best possible platform for FPS, and although personally I' d rather play on a console, this is a widely accepted fact.

Point? Because it doesn’t refute my point at all.

Heck, IGN just slammed the Xbox version of DOOM 3 when thrown into a compare and contrast version vs. the PC. So I listed Allied Assault, UT 2k4, and Far Cry, and if you knew any real PC fanatics, every last one of them would say they ALL stand on near-equal or flat-out equal ground with Halo. Do you really think that nobody plays UT 2k4 online? Time to check out some server numbers, my friend.

NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT PC GAMES.

Hopefully you’ll listen that time. Had I wish to talk about PC games in my original post I would have listed some PC only titles (or at least titles that haven’t been ported yet).

And if you want to say that Red Faction is a " joke" now, go right ahead. I don' t call the original Super Mario Bros. or the original Gran Turismo or the original Zelda " jokes," just because they' re outdated now.

Because those games are still considered great. Much like how Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Goldeneye, and Halo are still considered great. No one looks at Red Faction in the same light. It did not stand the test of time.

You don' t want to count PC FPS (which makes virtually no sense, seeing as how it is THE platform for it),

If I don’t play PC games, why talk about them?

Listen -- NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT PC GAMES.

I know that Halo worshippers think the world revolves around one game. I realize that they think that nothing can ever touch it, and it' s invincible (' cough' hype for Halo 2 ' cough' ). I realize objectivity goes right out the window when discussing the " legendary" Halo. But you want to know what I think?

Look out world, he’s getting ready to preach!

-- The ultimate copout in development design by refusing to create new levels at the end, and just have the player run back out the same way they came in.

-- The inside environments...could they BE any more repetitive?

-- So, we take first-person mode, change to third-person for use of vehicles, and......keep first-person control? Who' s grand idea was this?

-- Am I walking or running? It doesn' t seem to matter...I may as well be crawling on both counts. You want a speedy FPS? Play the new UT.

*snooze*

Welcome to 2 years ago when people were saying that at Christmas. Didn’t slow Halo down then, won’t slow it down now.

I played it through once, and I' m very glad I did. It' s one of the best ever, and probably the best FPS for console ever. But it' s not perfect, not by a longshot, and it doesn' t deserve this insane following.

Opinion.

You scream about letting everyone have their opinion, so don' t freak out when I voice mine.

Yeah…. I’m so freaked out…..

And there are other great FPS' s. The review scores speak for themselves, whether there are " worldwide tournaments," or not.

If the rest of the gaming world doesn’t care, why should I? If a game can' t stand the test of time, why consider it great?

I' m not going to do this quote for quote. You can blather on all you want about " the test of time," and I don' t really give a damn. You asked a particular question, and I answered it. You did not specify that no PC games can be involved (which is downright idiotic for a FPS-oriented topic, IMO), nor did you say that all games involved had to have a certain number of people playing the game online in its never-ending " test of time." You asked the question, " Without Halo, is this a sub-par generation of FPS' s?" Of course it isn' t. If Red Faction didn' t " stand the test of time," then how can Goldeneye or Perfect Dark?

This generation has seen the explosion of FPS' s on consoles. If you want to be permanently narrow-minded and just say that the only FPS that matters is Halo, go right ahead. I come across that all the time. I also come across the people discounting Halo' s flaws because...well, I don' t really know why. You say " snooze" as if they just don' t matter. Typical.

You could just accept my opinion that Halo, while great, does not deserve its ascribed status, and accept my opinion that this is not a " lackluster" generation for FPS' s (to say otherwise, IMO, is just being blatantly ignorant), or you can continue on in this thread, trying to shove Halo down everyone' s throats when it' s already crammed in there miles deep in the first place. I wasn' t asking for a Halo discussion, and I provided some excellent FPS' s that have garnered some of the highest praise in the industry. Ignore it if you want.

P.S. I cannot provide a link to that thread; after GS dropped Lithium and transferred their whole forums over to a different system, all threads and topics were erased. If you want me to recruit some die-hard TS 2 fans, that can easily be done. They will argue to the death that TS 2 multi-player online is more fun than Halo ever thought of being. I don' t agree or disagree on that issue, but you seem to think that such people don' t, and can' t, exist. No one has " laughed" at TS 2 besides Halo fanboys, and the reviews prove as much. THAT much, I know.

I' m not going to do this quote for quote.

Then don’t. I’m not going to make you.

You can blather on all you want about " the test of time

Great games should be able too.

You asked a particular question, and I answered it.

Yes, you did give an answer. I have just as much right to point out flaws in that answer too.

You did not specify that no PC games can be involved (which is downright idiotic for a FPS-oriented topic, IMO),

Not idiotic for a topic about console FPS. How many times must I repeat that?

nor did you say that all games involved had to have a certain number of people playing the game online in its never-ending " test of time."

You can play Halo over Live? How?

If Red Faction didn' t " stand the test of time," then how can Goldeneye or Perfect Dark?

To this day I still see threads praising Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. None for Red Faction or any of the console FPS’s you mentioned. That’s greatness in my eyes.

This generation has seen the explosion of FPS' s on consoles.

Yes, there has been many, but not all are great.

If you want to be permanently narrow-minded and just say that the only FPS that matters is Halo, go right ahead.

The only one that ”mattered”? Why, I never said that. I said it’s the only great FPS on a console.

I come across that all the time. I also come across the people discounting Halo' s flaws because...

I’ve never seen a flawless game. Even DMC, Ninja Gaiden, Gran Turismo, and Splinter Cell has flaws. Doesn’t mean those aren’t great games. The “flaw” argument is it self flawed.

well, I don' t really know why. You say " snooze" as if they just don' t matter. Typical.

Typical? Somebody sounds like they’re ready to explode.

You could just accept my opinion that Halo, while great, does not deserve its ascribed status, and accept my opinion that this is not a " lackluster" generation for FPS' s

Oh, I accept your opinion. Doesn’t mean I can’t voice my own counter opinion.

or you can continue on in this thread, trying to shove Halo down everyone' s throats when it' s already crammed in there miles deep in the first place.

But the only person arguing in this thread is -- you….

I wasn' t asking for a Halo discussion,

But you’re in a Halo topic…?

and I provided some excellent FPS' s that have garnered some of the highest praise in the industry. Ignore it if you want.

Yeah, for PC. Your console selection is questionable.

P.S. I cannot provide a link to that thread; after GS dropped Lithium and transferred their whole forums over to a different system, all threads and topics were erased. If you want me to recruit some die-hard TS 2 fans, that can easily be done. They will argue to the death that TS 2 multi-player online is more fun than Halo ever thought of being.

Irrelevant. I’ve seen threads stretch over 3,000 replies with only TWO people. One topic with TS cannot dismiss years of topics from Halo.

Yeah, whatever. MoH: Frontline is considered to be one of the best FPS' s ever, on consoles or otherwise. So is TS 2, and so is Red Faction. You can keep trying to tell me that the only " great" FPS is Halo this generation on consoles, and I will keep telling you otherwise (along with every other reviewer on the planet).

To be perfectly honest, I am AWFULLY sick about discussing Halo, and I' m even more sick of people trying to sing its endless praises in veiled threads, which is exactly what this was. You never had any intention of discussing other great FPS' s; you just wanted to push Halo...of course, I shouldn' t be surprised. You don' t have to admit it, but it' s painfully obvious. Just refer back to my first answer in response to your question, which is " No." Okay?

TimeSplitters 2, Medal of Honor: Frontline, MoH: Allied Assault, Far Cry, Unreal Tournament 2k4, Red Faction, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and Unreal Championship are all great FPS' s.

Red Faction is a piss-poor fps, even for a console. The only MOH I' ve played is MOH: Rising Sun and didn' t like it too much so haven' t played Frontline (which I actually own and is just sitting on my shelf...I' m sure I' ll get around to it sometime as I' ve heard good things about it). RtCW' s single player mode is average at best, and the online is better, but not by that much. Unreal Championship? You' re kidding right? Please tell me you' re kidding. That has to be the single worst FPS I' ve played on Xbox, yes even worse than Rising Sun. And talk about no single player mode....all it has is lame bot battles in the multiplayer arenas. LAME. I' ve never played TS2 so I can' t say yay or nay for that game, and don' t care to comment on the PC games since lotusson has made it obvious that' s not what we' re comparing here.

Halo 1 is the only FPS still drawing attention since it’s initial release.

That' s not true. Rainbow Six 3 logs the most Live activity (or so I' ve heard) than any other game in existance and it was released quite a while ago. Also the fact that they continue to support the game with free downloads sends the message that this game is popular enough to continue to support even after it' s been out for so long.

And take out Live and perhaps even RS6 and CS would have been forgotten by now.

I also find this to be false for RS3 (but obviously true for CS considering it doesn' t have a single player mode). It has an extremely immersive single player game-mode. I had a friend who played more total hours on single player RS3 then I did with Morrowind...and let me tell you, that' s no easy feat. He went through the single player campaign more times than I care to count and did all the extra terrorist hunts as well. He' s played it so much that he literally knows where every single enemy comes from, and when I watch him play, I' m like, yeah, let' s see you do that online, which for some reason he doesn' t like.


*All of the above statements were my opinion, which from this point forward will be known as hard facts. If you disagree with said statements then your opinion is obviously wrong simply because of the fact that I know everything....that' s right, EVERYTHING!!!*

*snaps out of Fathoms mode*

*whoa, that was weird*

skurf, when you stop acting like a colossal moron, maybe you' d like to point out anywhere, ever, that I said my opinion was fact. I used the phrase " IMO" twice as much as anyone in this thread. Until you can figure this out, you' re not worth my time. Furthermore, compare the reviews for Frontline and Rising Sun. Rising Sun was crap, and the reviews state as much. And when you can find a bad review of Red Faction, or even just an average review, let me know.

Personally, I think you need to develop a sense of reading comprehension. Either that, or find substantial evidence of this " passing off my opinion as fact" crap, when I say " IMO" twice as much as anyone else here.

HALO after 2 years of release still pops in to NPD' s Sales Chart of top 10 sold games each month.

Name one FPS that does that.

+The only thing thats good about PC FPS is that u can download them for free.