immortal: I never quoted GameSpy; that' s GamesSpot. and I only listed IGN and GS because they' re the most popular and most accessible. Mostly, I just go by GameRankings, because it takes the average of many different reviews. You get a little better look at the overall critical response to a game. Using GR, there are three FPS' s that came out in the last three years in the Top 10 of all-time, five if you count PC games...but to lotosson and everyone else, that just means they' re less than Halo. Not great.

He ignores me because he knows I' m right and he knows that he truly is a hypocrite. What' s really funny is that he is still ranting about this so-called objective word, " sucks" even after I have proven that he has used it in a subjective fashion. Single words do not represent something as being objective or subjective-- you have to consider the entire context of the statement.

He ignores me because he knows I' m right and he knows that he truly is a hypocrite. What' s really funny is that he is still ranting about this so-called objective word, " sucks" even after I have proven that he has used it in a subjective fashion. Single words do not represent something as being objective or subjective-- you have to consider the entire context of the statement.

Come on, it' s fathoms. He' s always right!! No way you could actually be right for once! [/fathoms]

PresAgent: And you' re right by accusing me of being a fanboy 38 times, correct? It' s laughable that not a single person in here can admit when they' re wrong. Heh...children.

skurf: You' ve ignored every last thing I' ve said. Words don' t take meaning when you say them, they already HAVE meanings, dimwit. And I' m sorry, was there an " IMO" in that sentence of mine? Gee...I think there was. If you' re going to use objective terminology but have a personal opinion, maybe that " IMO" should be there. Where were all the " IMO" s in that other topic, skurf? You know, for anyone besides ME.

You two are so lame, it' s unbelievable. LOL

PresAgent: And you' re right by accusing me of being a fanboy 38 times, correct? It' s laughable that not a single person in here can admit when they' re wrong. Heh...children.

Ha, you can' t even count too. Maybe you should take some math lessons along with that English course too.

Ya know, the most funny part about that thread in which Fanthoms whines about subjective/objective words is that the thread is entirely about opinions. It' s sad that Fanthoms thinks a thread about opinions is fact. Why should people even bother typing IMO in a thread about OPINIONS and OPINIONS only?

skurf: You' ve ignored every last thing I' ve said. Words don' t take meaning when you say them, they already HAVE meanings, dimwit. And I' m sorry, was there an " IMO" in that sentence of mine? Gee...I think there was. If you' re going to use objective terminology but have a personal opinion, maybe that " IMO" should be there. Where were all the " IMO" s in that other topic, skurf? You know, for anyone besides ME.

Yes, obviously words have meanings, but a word' s meaning has nothing to do with whether or not an entire statement is subjective or objective. Sub/objectivity is directly related to the context of a statement. When someone is talking about games that they like/dislike it is obvious that " IMO" is implied and only an idiot would not realize this. Are you an idiot Fathoms? People don' t have to go around saying " IMO this..." and " IMO that..." when they are talking. It is obviously their opinion.

Damnit Pres, you stole half my post with your edit! Ah well, at least we' re on the same page.

Oh, and one thing I forgot in my last post...

It' s laughable that not a single person in here can admit when they' re wrong.

Bahahahahahahhahaha
BAHAHAHhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

Ok, I' m done.....hypocrite.

PresAgent: So what am I a fanboy of? Just say, " I' m wrong." Can you even manage this?

skurf: You' re under the notion that everything about games is subjective. Too bad that isn' t true. If it' s 100% subjective, then everything is opinion. Unfortunately for your entire argument, there are many facets of games that can be viewed objectively. Or are you one of those moronic liberals who believe that there' s no such thing as " good" or " bad" anymore?

It' s like these pathetic state social workers. " Oh, he killed his three-year-old and broke her piggy bank to get money for crack, but who are we to say that' s ' bad' ? It' s his ' life decision.' " Holy GOD. \

P.S. Say hypocrite one more time. Maybe then it will magically become true! LOL

skurf: You' re under the notion that everything about games is subjective. Too bad that isn' t true. If it' s 100% subjective, then everything is opinion. Unfortunately for your entire argument, there are many facets of games that can be viewed objectively. Or are you one of those moronic liberals who believe that there' s no such thing as " good" or " bad" anymore?

I' m not even going to bother. With a comment like this from Fanthoms, it would be just too easy.

fathoms, who are you trying to fool into believing you? None of us do. You aren' t even capable of debating or arguing your way out of a paper bag with no sides. You have just continued to prove nothing, and even make yourself look more foolish with each reply.

PresAgent: So what am I a fanboy of? Just say, " I' m wrong." Can you even manage this?

I would say that if I was, but the point is, I' m not. You are a fanboy, whether you like it or not. And it' s especially convincing, considering the fact that you call others fanboys to hide your own guilt. It' s like you preaching you have a big d***, but in all reality we know you' re a midget. You just don' t get it fathoms, you' re too blind to everything you say. I' m through. I' ve already shown people what an idiot you are, and that' s enough for this thread.

' ahem' I asked you a question. You were unable to answer it. Or should I just be a fanboy because you say so? I must be an Xbox fanboy for 2004. Do you like temporary labels? Is that kosher?

skurf: You' re under the notion that everything about games is subjective. Too bad that isn' t true. If it' s 100% subjective, then everything is opinion. Unfortunately for your entire argument, there are many facets of games that can be viewed objectively.

Actually, I' m not under that pretense. There are indeed many aspects of a game that should be viewed objectively, such as all the technical aspects of it (i.e. framerate, polygons per character, etc...) as well as some other non-technical aspects such as length, multiplayer capability, and so on. What is not objective is whether or not someone likes the game. If they dislike it then the game sucks to them-- plain and simple.

Or are you one of those moronic liberals who believe that there' s no such thing as " good" or " bad" anymore?
It' s like these pathetic state social workers. " Oh, he killed his three-year-old and broke her piggy bank to get money for crack, but who are we to say that' s ' bad' ? It' s his ' life decision.' " Holy GOD.

And here we can see Fathoms going over the deep-end. I wonder how long until he snaps and becomes the guy in his quote.

P.S. Say hypocrite one more time. Maybe then it will magically become true! LOL

No magic needed. That was an objective statement supported with an example of your hypocrisy.

I' m still waiting for someone to provide substantial evidence that I am in any way biased towards one particular system or company. Please, if you' d be so kind.

I' m still waiting for someone to provide substantial evidence that I am in any way biased towards one particular system or company. Please, if you' d be so kind.

You really want to know what you' re a fanboy of? Yourself and your opinion.

You really want to know what you' re a fanboy of? Yourself and your opinion.

I believe that' s...how do they say it?....game, set, and match.

" Suck" would be objective if used in the literal sense, as in what a hot babe does to my, well, you get the picture. Other things that would be objective would be " red" or similar to describe the color of something. " High resolution" would be objective in describing a game' s HiDef capabilities. " Buggy" or " Incomplete" could be objective in describing a game, since it would be a fact that the game has bugs.

Also, FPS' s tend to give me motion sickness. I have no idea why.

I didn' t bother reading it all..lost all sense after about 2 replies on both sides. Arguing about pointless nothings.

Anyways, personally I really really liked TimeSplitters 2. It' s the only game that seems to have captured the same magic that GoldenEye had (probably because it' s made by the same people). Halo was great, no doubt..I was addicted to it for at least a month, but I was just as addicted to TS2 as well.

Opinions, opinions...I don' t understand this. Fathoms, you are using reviews that someone wrote from their impressions of the game as some kind of proof? That' s laughable. An opinion used to support an opinion. What makes someone who works at IGN or EGM more qualified to say when a game is great than you, me, or my dog who just farted? Maybe a college degree? The fact that they have no lives and do nothing but play games and write boring, unfunny, and ultimately useless articles? The same games that get 9/10 get 4/10 by other just as qualified reviewers. There isn' t nearly as much that is " factual" and " indisputable" about video games as you seem to think. If there was, reviewing a video game would be a college course or at least part of curriculum. It' s not.

You can tweak the words any way you want. All you really want to say is that there is no objectivity in games, and that it' s all opinion. That' s untrue, and if you can' t deal with that, fine. If a word has meaning, it has meaning. The definitions don' t change because you say so, or because you think they should to fit your little agenda of trying to prove an ultimately un-provable point. Then again, none of you have ever admitted a mistake in forums in your entire existence, so should I expect anything more? Nah.

Joe: You' re not the only one that experiences motion sickness with FPS' s. I' ve come across many people that say the exact same thing. I have a friend who will get physically ill just by looking at the screen when I' m playing an FPS. Odd phenomenon, but understandable.

All: Still nothing? I' ve been accused of being a fanboy a billion times in this thread alone. So...anything? Or, should we say, " hypocrites" ? ' cough' Can' t even admit THIS, huh? Gotta twist that too? Just SAD.

You can tweak the words any way you want. All you really want to say is that there is no objectivity in games, and that it' s all opinion. That' s untrue, and if you can' t deal with that, fine. If a word has meaning, it has meaning. The definitions don' t change because you say so, or because you think they should to fit your little agenda of trying to prove an ultimately un-provable point. Then again, none of you have ever admitted a mistake in forums in your entire existence, so should I expect anything more? Nah.

I' m not changing the definitions of any words, fathoms. Not even you can deny that games that, on average by popular sources, get good reviews also get bad reviews from other widely read sources and vice versa. That' s the main point here. While you seem to think that every game has a definable level of quality to it that is irrefutable, I say that you are full of shit because Halo (for example) got excellent reviews, is still one of the best Xbox games, and you yourself say it is over-rated and doesn' t deserve the following it has generated when, by all accounts, it apparently adheres to your objective qualities in determining what is and isn' t a good game. Even low 9' s would indicate a near-perfect product, but you would give this score to a game that you yourself said " it' s not perfect, not by a longshot." Sounds like lip service to me.

All: Still nothing? I' ve been accused of being a fanboy a billion times in this thread alone. So...anything? Or, should we say, " hypocrites" ? ' cough' Can' t even admit THIS, huh? Gotta twist that too? Just SAD.

What' s your deal with saying that nobody will admit they are wrong in this thread? You are a hypocrite and if you want an example, look no further...

https://forum.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=6368&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Joe: I was going to read all that until I realized that it' s just an annoying post to read. See, saying something " sucks" isn' t really enough, especially when you' re bashing some of the best games and series in video game history. Unless you can provide more than the words " suckiness" and " crap," I' d find it very difficult to respect your opinion...on anything.

Nobody should have to say that they are expressing their opinion whenever they say something. It' s just assumed. Nor should they have to use " big words" to describe what they think of something or someone. Facts have scientific proof to support them.

https://forum.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=6476&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Triggers suck ass, IMO. I don' t want them for any game, especially racers. Any controller that has triggers gets trashed by me next generation. Either that, or there better be button configurations so that they' re not necessary.

Wait, wait, wait...didn' t you just say that saying things like " sucks" really aren' t enough. Joe trashed games you like just like you trash a feature of the controller that many people enjoy and many developers use creatively. " IMO" excuse again? You' re a hypocrite with bad excuses...as if you need them at all.

Extreme, don' t bother. He' s just going to ignore all the points you have made. Don' t worry, it' s widely known and accepted that fathoms is just a naive fool in denial.

Pathetic. I addressed all of that earlier. Try reading earlier posts to get the answers.

Abridged version:

I don' t " assume" anything when reading words. I can' t assume it' s an opinion because there are parts of games that are not subjective. Otherwise, it would be an automatic assumption.

I said " IMO" with the triggers. I also said that if you' re going to use objective terminology to describe something specific, you' re going to need that " IMO" in there.

There is, after many more posts, still no evidence of my supposed fanboyism. You' re all getting owned so hardcore, it' s not even funny. Any takers? Come on, you all look so BAD right now! Do something besides regurgitate the same crap I' ve already taken care of eons ago. LOL