Eddie, why would you associate yourself with this scum?
It' s not like we go get sh17-faced at a bar together on Fridays. We both believe that Jesus Christ was and is the savior of mankind. I' m positive that we must have
some other similarities in faith, but it' s not what makes us the same that' s important. It' s how we' re different.
His view of Christianity, and faith in general is that some group of people on earth has
all the answers, and that we must follow this. You believe this, or you suffer for all of eternity. I believe that Jesus came for everybody. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews... everybody. Including atheists.
I chose my religious affiliation the way I did, because there was not a claim that they had all of the answers.
Before I continue though, I should probably explain a little bit about my religious past. I was raised in a very strongly Roman Catholic household. Not like the stereotypical Hispanic " votive candles and a love for Jesus" kind of " strongly Catholic" either. Oh no, it was Dark-Ages religion at its best. " This is the truth. They have all the answers to all of your questions, and if you stray off of this path, may God have mercy on your soul" .
You know what? I actually
believed that crap for years and years. It wasn' t really an active sort of belief mind you, nor was my expression of faith an active thing either. However, I had had this mentality driven into my brain from such a young age that it made it nigh impossible for me to think anything else, lest I be sinning in thought.
It was a rough way to grow up, I won' t say I liked it. But it had its advantages. It gave me an opportunity to create reasonable arguments from a very young age. It instilled for me a very basic, very strong belief system (Not a Catholic one mind you.) It helped me see what I disliked, and what I wanted to change. Most of all though, it gave me a tolerance for differences that I never got to see growing up.
There' s a reason why fundamental Christians don' t go looking to convince people like me. They know they can' t construct an argument, they don' t have a leg to stand on.
Well, in which case you' ve apparently not met a lot of fundamental Christians. Not having a leg to stand on is one of the basic tenants of religion vs. atheism. Nobody I' ve ever met has done it right.
I' ve never once actively tried to convert you or anybody else here. I know how little tolerance I had for people telling me what was right and wrong. I' m of the belief that actions speak far louder than words, and that if you really want somebody to change, you lead by example.
History has proven that the people who wrote the bible were elitists who wanted to rule over the poor. That' s all it is. They wanted more for themselves and less for others.
Out of curiosity, have you read the bible? John the Baptist, one of Jesus' disciples spent the remainder of his life as a recluse in the desert, owning nothing more than what was required for subsistence, not a penny to his name.
According to Jesus himself (I' m assuming you believe in Jesus as a historical figure at the very least) his apostles were to leave everything behind, all their land, money and possessions to follow him. And while that' s a very extreme devotion that all Christians aren' t required to share, it disproves your theory that the Bible was created by people who wanted rule over the poor. Portions of the Bible were
written by poor people.
Everytone wans to find out the ultimate truth to base philosophy and morality on. So lets say that God is one possible explantation to everything. There are many explantions that don' t involve a mystical being. Who would you trust more? The people who we know lied through their teeth in order to control people and made up rules suppsedly dictated by God, people who today are trying to cling on to power.
You' re assuming that the people who wrote the bible and the people currently in power in the church are one in the same. A lot changes in 2000 years, the Christians went from the persecuted to the persecutors, one of the reasons I' m non denominational. I don' t want to associate with some high-up in Rome telling me what' s right & wrong.
Or people who have nothing to gain and are only motivated by discovering the truth? The former is basing their evidence on a book that is thousands of years old written by liars in a time where modern science didn' t exist, the latter has evidence to back up their claims. Infact the latter won' t even make a claim unless there is evidence first.
And what did the writers of the Bible have to gain exactly? You have to remember that the New Testament was being written
after Jesus' death (and if you believe, resurrection). His followers were scattered, underground, they lived in constant fear of being exposed. The consequences for praising a King other than that of Rome were severe. These people had nothing to gain physically or financially from writing the Bible. In fact, logically speaking, the physical consequences of harboring and expressing these beliefs would prevent anybody who was in it for the money, fame or power from even considering it.
I can understand your anger against organized religion. I really can. I looked around at the atrocities that had been committed in the name of a specific religious body. Shiite vs. Sunni, Catholic vs. Muslim (apologies, I' m not sure there was a specific denomination Muslims attended to during the crusades), Catholic > Orthodox Jew.
But then it hit me.
None of those were about faith.
They were about religion.
Edit:
They can' t even teach Evolution in American schools! That' s how ***ed up the system is. Why even give organized religion a chance in shools? It' s all proven to be bullshit. We' re granting special priviges to religion in school but we' re black balling science and factual ideas about our origin.
Actually, you' re only half right there. They refused to teach either. All the students in my courses (religious and non) agreed that it' d be best to hear both theories, and make their own conclusions. However, the idiots on the school board were terrified of pissing-off the Angry Letter-Writing Mothers of America, so our education got shafted because of it.
< Message edited by eddie_the_hated -- 8 Oct 07 1:09:32 >