09 Wont suck like 08

Eddie_the_Hated

Fighting games are dead,

outside of arcades.

Aren't arcades dead?

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Aren't arcades dead?

Only if you're not Asian.

mastachefbkw

Aren't arcades dead?

Fighting games surely do not sell consoles like they used to but they seem to be steadily on a rise and Devs are certainly churning them out over the last few years, even if it is mainly for the hardcore audience.. DOA4, VF5, Tekken 5, SSB: Brawl, SC4, SFII Remix and SFIV, Tekken 6, Tk vs Cap to come..  No way are they 'DEAD'

Currently playing:
Korg DS 10 (ds) /  Metal Slug 7 (ds)
Rhythm Heaven (ds) /  Fire Emblem (ds)
Super Stardust HD (psn) /  Virtua Fighter 5 (360)
FSX (P

Fighting games surely do not sell consoles like they used to but they seem to be steadily on a rise and Devs are certainly churning them out over the last few years, even if it is mainly for the hardcore audience.. DOA4, VF5, Tekken 5, SSB: Brawl, SC4, SFII Remix and SFIV, Tekken 6, Tk vs Cap to come..  No way are they 'DEAD'

Repeatedly smashing X keeps the genre alive? I'm sure you'll shit yourself when I say this, but Tekken, DOA, VF, SC, its all the same shit under a different name. And SF? What the fuck is this, 1990? Sure it was a great game, but how many rehashes can you get?

They were kept alive during the psx era because of 3D, but they were on the decline even then, last gen they saw a revival again because of better graphics, this gen the graphics are better but fundamentally they don't add anything to the experience.   Soul edge to soul calibur, vf3 to vf4, doa to doa2 were a huge leap because of the technology.   Vf5, doa4, sc4 are the same shit as their prequels with better graphics, they have peaked, there is nothing that can be done to make them faster, more fluid or more interactive, all you can do is make them prettier.

People also want more meat from their games, pretty much every genre of games has some excessive dramatic narrative and story.  That shit doesn't work in fighting games, I don't want to watch a 20 minute plot-twist scene about how Cervantes is Spawn's mother.

emofag


I don't want to watch a 20 minute plot-twist scene about how Cervantes is Spawn's mother.

rofl

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Repeatedly shooting somebody keeps the genre alive? I'm sure you'll shit yourself when I say this, but Halo, Call of Duty, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, its all the same shit under a different name. And Doom? What the fuck is this, 1993? Sure it was a great game, but how many rehashes can you get?

Works several ways.

I'd agree that fighting games aren't in the pink at present, either in terms of raw hard sales or mechanical innovation, but srsly u guys - look at, oh, let's say the Def Jam fighters (variable in quality though they were) or Guilty Gear, or the Fight Night series, or Bleach on the DS, or even craptastic Naruto and chums. It's fundamentally the same template, of course - beat the crap out of somebody, rinse and repeat - but let's not pretend developers have simply been reskinning the same mechanics for each fresh iteration. There's a lot of light between even heavily recycled titles, too - walk into Virtua Fighter with the intention of hammering buttons Tekken-style and see how quickly you get your arse handed to you.

I also think the whole "same-but-prettier" argument rests on the false assumption that somehow more advanced graphics mean nothing. Go on, tell me it doesn't make a difference when you see the shadows of individual tree branches sliding over your rifle barrel in Crysis. Or that the sight of individual drops of blood flying away from somebody's recently broken jaw is besides the point. Even if there's no direct relevance to the supposedly discrete, mechanical category of "gameplay", these details add volumes to the experience.

The story-telling point is valid, though - I wonder if anyone at Namco, Capcom et al has any ideas on that front. Anyhoo, I shan't rant on. VF5 - I don't think you've been out of order in this thread, but we'll have no bloody platform trolling here, thank you very much. Love Thy Neighbour, etc.

Repeatedly shooting somebody keeps the genre alive? I'm sure you'll shit yourself when I say this, but Halo, Call of Duty, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, its all the same shit under a different name. And Doom? What the fuck is this, 1993? Sure it was a great game, but how many rehashes can you get?  Disregard this, I sucks cock

I agree.

Allow me to rephrase :)

I cant be arsed to pay full price for figthing games and sports games, I like the story and campaign exprieince which is non exsistant on those genres.

Edwin


Allow me to rephrase :)

Eww, dont infect this forum with your Jewtube AIDS.

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

Edwin

I also think the whole "same-but-prettier" argument rests on the false assumption that somehow more advanced graphics mean nothing. Go on, tell me it doesn't make a difference when you see the shadows of individual tree branches sliding over your rifle barrel in Crysis. Or that the sight of individual drops of blood flying away from somebody's recently broken jaw is besides the point. Even if there's no direct relevance to the supposedly discrete, mechanical category of "gameplay", these details add volumes to the experience.

The difference is in those genre environments matter.  In fighting games all the shit that goes on in the background doesn't matter, might as well be a 2D background.  You can see people from much further away in modern FPS than in last gen, that adds elements to the gameplay, amazing shit going on in the background adds nothing to fighters.

Destructible environments.

"I'll wager sixty finest English pence that you defeat Big Sister in the end by shagging her to death."

Kikizo.com - Excellence in Journalism

I like fighters.  Always have.  I bought MK v DC, and I played it for quite a while.  Not done yet, either!

I also downloaded Vader for SCIV, and I went through story mode with him.  Seems when you download Vader, they also give you a new intro, and a new ending for Starkiller.  Also some new dialog for other characters (I think), a new board, and some new artwork (ok, so it's one friggin' picture!  So sue me!)

Definitely looking forward to SFIV too!  I just like to play fighters, pure and simple.  I don't need to stinkin' reasons other than that!

emofag

Edwin

I also think the whole "same-but-prettier" argument rests on the false assumption that somehow more advanced graphics mean nothing. Go on, tell me it doesn't make a difference when you see the shadows of individual tree branches sliding over your rifle barrel in Crysis. Or that the sight of individual drops of blood flying away from somebody's recently broken jaw is besides the point. Even if there's no direct relevance to the supposedly discrete, mechanical category of "gameplay", these details add volumes to the experience.

The difference is in those genre environments matter.  In fighting games all the shit that goes on in the background doesn't matter, might as well be a 2D background.  You can see people from much further away in modern FPS than in last gen, that adds elements to the gameplay, amazing shit going on in the background adds nothing to fighters.

If it's "amazing shit" then it does "add something" even where mechanically irrelevant - you can't pretend that being able to see the seams in Sophitia's crotch when she kicks some poor sod in the nostrils means sweet fuck all. And as I've pointed out, there are plenty of fighting games where the visuals are more than just a gloss for the combos and reversals.

All this rests upon a false distinction, anyway - "gameplay" and "graphics" are slippery terms, deployed by reviewers mainly for the sake of convenience, and arguably impossible to consider in isolation from one another. I can tell how close to a knockout my opponent is in Fight Night 3 from the state of his face - is that a graphical element, or a gameplay element, or a little of both?

It's fundamentally the same template, of course - beat the crap out of somebody, rinse and repeat - but let's not pretend developers have simply been reskinning the same mechanics for each fresh iteration.

All this rests upon a false distinction, anyway - "gameplay" and "graphics" are slippery terms, deployed by reviewers mainly for the sake of convenience, and arguably impossible to consider in isolation from one another. I can tell how close to a knockout my opponent is in Fight Night 3 from the state of his face - is that a graphical element, or a gameplay element, or a little of both?

Valid but d'you think the new visual style in SFIV really adds anything to SF in general?  I dunno if they can get much better than the Alpha series imo.

I used to love fighting games, but haven't bought one since Capcom vs SNK 2.  For me it really just comes down to the fact that I can't be bothered to constantly re-learn new combos for each new fighter that comes out, when essentially I'm playing the same basic fighting mechanic I was 10 years ago.

All the shit Emo is stating does not take away the fact that fighters are clearly not 'dead' There's obviously a big enough hardcore audience that are still hooked and will buy, reason why they are still being made. (read the Tekken 6 interview).

Currently playing:
Korg DS 10 (ds) /  Metal Slug 7 (ds)
Rhythm Heaven (ds) /  Fire Emblem (ds)
Super Stardust HD (psn) /  Virtua Fighter 5 (360)
FSX (P

Would you prefer if I said "Passed away" as opposed to "dead"?

???

DoA4 owns...
Tekken: Dark Resurrection owns...
Virtua Fighter 5 owns...
Tekken 6 owns...

Pressing x owns.....

My point, fighting games are more or less the same thing, but have different storylines(which always suck).

Eddie_the_Hated


Destructible environments.

That could be accomplished last gen.

And destructible envronment are far more gameplay altering and visually appealing in other genres.

emofag

Eddie_the_Hated


Destructible environments.

That could be accomplished last gen.

And destructible envronment are far more gameplay altering and visually appealing in other genres.

Destructible Environments play a crucial part in the DOA series since DOA2, and they still manage to make it more appealing than most games in other genres.

That could be accomplished last gen.

But rarely was...

You need to look at developer trends as well, when you're talking about generational gaps. Console shooters have significantly evolved since the last generation, simply in the fact that developers have begun to use ironsight and regenerative health systems. They coulda' done it last generation, but rarely did.

In the console market anyhow. PCs obviously don't follow a generational timeline.

"I'll wager sixty finest English pence that you defeat Big Sister in the end by shagging her to death."

Kikizo.com - Excellence in Journalism

I think regenerative health should be used very very carefully, its fucked up in most games., mostly those that pride themselves with being realistic!

Fuck realism.  If I wanted real, I'd get an M16 and shoot up a police station.

"This is sad. There's no other word for it. The person who invents a way to punch someone in the face over the Internet will make millions from the demand generated by people like this." Youtube comments

i dont want it to necesarily be real! I just find games to easy! you pop out take 2-4 bullets hide a bit and run along, you dont really have to be careful.

Accesesibility is making a lot of games to easy. Its been awhile since iv played a hard game (with the exception of Ninja Gaiden 2)

choupolo

It's fundamentally the same template, of course - beat the crap out of somebody, rinse and repeat - but let's not pretend developers have simply been reskinning the same mechanics for each fresh iteration.

All this rests upon a false distinction, anyway - "gameplay" and "graphics" are slippery terms, deployed by reviewers mainly for the sake of convenience, and arguably impossible to consider in isolation from one another. I can tell how close to a knockout my opponent is in Fight Night 3 from the state of his face - is that a graphical element, or a gameplay element, or a little of both?

Valid but d'you think the new visual style in SFIV really adds anything to SF in general?  I dunno if they can get much better than the Alpha series imo.

I used to love fighting games, but haven't bought one since Capcom vs SNK 2.  For me it really just comes down to the fact that I can't be bothered to constantly re-learn new combos for each new fighter that comes out, when essentially I'm playing the same basic fighting mechanic I was 10 years ago.

My personal take on the Street Fighter series is that Capcom made The Perfect Game with number 2, thereby comprehensively buggering themselves up the arse as far as sequels are concerned ;) My knowledge of the fourth doesn't extend much beyond the visuals and new characters, but isn't there another layer of super moves/counters to bolster the existing move-sets?

Again, I think the fighting genre is actually quite diverse once you look past the shared emphasis on Fucking somebody's Shit up. You've got the holy trinity - Dead or Alive (all about reversals, easy), Tekken (all about combos, intermediate) and Virtua Fighter (all about "technique", ball-breakingly hard); Soul Calibur which is equal parts speed and reach; weird little oddities like Square's Bushido Blade and Erghiez; the 2D genre at large...

You can say whatever you want but the fact remains: youre whittling away at his health bar in  a confined space with no character development or progression. And the whole premise of fight games pisses me off, why doesnt a character just decide to buy a gun and be done with it?

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

the same reason someone in a UFC match doesn't buy a gun and be done with it duh

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

the same reason someone in a UFC match doesn't buy a gun and be done with it duh

I could beat a UFC fighter's ass if he fought by their rules and I didn't. They're such bitches. You can kick while on the ground, you can't choke, you can't punch in the throat, etc. The only rule I would ever apply to a fight is no foreign objects and no low-blows.

mastachefbkw

the same reason someone in a UFC match doesn't buy a gun and be done with it duh

I could beat a UFC fighter's ass if he fought by their rules and I didn't. They're such bitches. You can kick while on the ground, you can't choke, you can't punch in the throat, etc. The only rule I would ever apply to a fight is no foreign objects and no low-blows.

There are no rules in a fight.

And Loco, UFC is a competition in the real world. Emphasis on real.

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

immortaldanmx

mastachefbkw

the same reason someone in a UFC match doesn't buy a gun and be done with it duh

I could beat a UFC fighter's ass if he fought by their rules and I didn't. They're such bitches. You can kick while on the ground, you can't choke, you can't punch in the throat, etc. The only rule I would ever apply to a fight is no foreign objects and no low-blows.

There are no rules in a fight.

And Loco, UFC is a competition in the real world. Emphasis on real.

no duh

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

You can say whatever you want but the fact remains: youre whittling away at his health bar in  a confined space with no character development or progression.

This = 85-90% of console games in existence, including the majority of shooters. Describe anything in a sentence and you can make it sound dull.

The great thing about Tekken et al is that the characters "progress" as fast as you do. You start off with basic three button combos and one-shot knockdowns, then gradually pick up stuff like interrupts, guard breaks, etc. There's no artificial set of "levels" you have to advance through in order to unlock more content - everything's there from the get-go, and the only limit is your skill.

Jeez, I'm starting to sound like a regular arcade nut :)

And the whole premise of fight games pisses me off, why doesnt a character just decide to buy a gun and be done with it?

You might as well say that Mario would have an easier time of it if he brought a couple of Uzis along next time Princess Peach gets kidnapped.


...


I'd quite like to see that happen, actually.

mastachefbkw


Pressing x owns.....

My point, fighting games are more or less the same thing, but have different storylines(which always suck).

Yep the storylines are retarded, the cutscenes are retarded, many of the characters are retarded and the gameplay is extremely limited...

But they're fun to play against friends, and at the end of the day that's what videogames are all about.

Chimura

emofag

Eddie_the_Hated


Destructible environments.

That could be accomplished last gen.

And destructible envronment are far more gameplay altering and visually appealing in other genres.

Destructible Environments play a crucial part in the DOA series since DOA2, and they still manage to make it more appealing than most games in other genres.

Exactly, last gen.

Next.

Vx Chemical


i dont want it to necesarily be real! I just find games to easy! you pop out take 2-4 bullets hide a bit and run along, you dont really have to be careful.

Accesesibility is making a lot of games to easy. Its been awhile since iv played a hard game (with the exception of Ninja Gaiden 2)

If you want to do something "hard" go do a physical activity and push yourself beyond your limit, lift weights, sports, etc.  Get a life.

If you want to casually have fun when you are bored play a videogame.

mastachefbkw

the same reason someone in a UFC match doesn't buy a gun and be done with it duh

I could beat a UFC fighter's ass if he fought by their rules and I didn't. They're such bitches. You can kick while on the ground, you can't choke, you can't punch in the throat, etc. The only rule I would ever apply to a fight is no foreign objects and no low-blows.

Have you watched some of the older UFC fights? They are fucking brutal, and no you wouldn't last 5 secons with or without rules, kiddie.

Originally the UFC had next to no rules.  They didn't even have weight classes.  The creator wanted to discover the best fighter period.  It was beautiful.  It didn't fly well, no one wanted to sponsor the sport so they had to pussy it up for these corporate assholes.  It's still one of the best sports though.   

"This is sad. There's no other word for it. The person who invents a way to punch someone in the face over the Internet will make millions from the demand generated by people like this." Youtube comments

But they're fun to play against friends, and at the end of the day that's what videogames are all about.

I'll give you that one. I remember playing SF all the time with friends. But I can still get that same enjoyment from playing FPS. I don't have anything against fighting games or people who like them. Its just the people who rave on about how its "teh bestest genrez evar!"

DOA2

Exactly, last gen.

Next.

You're putting DOA2's destructible environments in the same league as Battlefield: Bad Company, or COD4's penetrable environments? Heh.

"I'll wager sixty finest English pence that you defeat Big Sister in the end by shagging her to death."

Kikizo.com - Excellence in Journalism