senate votes over marriage amendment next week

You are right, your comments are still there. I was looking at the wrong post.

How or where did you get the idea that I thought you hated me? I have no reason to believe that you would.

I' d happily befriend any former gay person.

LOL...


I' ve always believed that what this world needs is a good ol Alien invasion that threatens to wipe out our very existence.. Maybe then and only then will ' issues' of descrimination among humans be either wiped out or totally pushed aside. Part of me thinks that people would be too focussed on battling the aliens and preserving the human race to worry about their tail gunner or weapons specialist being gay or of a different religion, ethnicity or something. But that' s just the slightly optimistic side of me.

But yeah I REALLY do believe this world needs THAT drastic of a wake-up call.

I just didn' t want the continous backing of support on either side to turn into tension or hatred.

Terry, what' s so funny about that quote? In my mind, it' s true.

They call that wake up call Armageddon. So, am I the victor of this thread? I was satisfied...

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Victor? Is that your name? Cuz that' s the only way you can win!

Anyway what Terry says wouldn' t necessarily be armageddon (what an awful movie, btw), but we' d need something like that for ALL people to put aside their stupid differences like this and unite. We' re different. You don' t have to like it, but you MUST accept it. You MUST tolerate it.

I didn' t want to get involved, but Alley-Hater did mention something about animals being gay....well, you' re wrong Alley, because there have been documentaries and write-ups about numerous species being attracted and exhibiting " gay" tendencies.

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate

James Owen in London
for National Geographic News
July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn' t risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day " the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

This is taken from http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.htm


However, there are numerous sites that explore this topic. Being a " homeschool" mom, I' m always looking for interesting and sometimes controversial subjects.

Gay animals have been found to be mentally retarded which is the reason for their behavior.

thank you Rampage99

Anyway what Terry says wouldn' t necessarily be armageddon (what an awful movie, btw), but we' d need something like that for ALL people to put aside their stupid differences like this and unite. We' re different. You don' t have to like it, but you MUST accept it. You MUST tolerate it.

Stupid differences? Gay is the reason why people separated. Why dont THEY put their dumb lifestyle and unite...
I dont have to like it, I will NEVER accept it, I will NEVER tolerate it.

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Halo 2

Everyone is different and have different tolerant levels..

You' re not gonna convince a member of the Klan to like or tolerate minorities(even though I was once handed a Klan business card) and you' re not gonna convince homophobes to like or tolerate homosexuals.

The world is just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Let' s just sit and wait for the Aliens.... :)

By " accept" and " tolerate" , I mean live with it. Intolerance usually results in violence. By saying that gays are the reason people are separated, you are basically saying that if it weren' t for them, we' d all be happy together. You act as if gays want nothing to do with straight people or to be involved in our society. It seems to me as if you might not have much confidence in your own sexuality. Right now I imagine you' re STAUNCHLY denying that possibility. That wouldn' t surprise me one bit.

Please answer:

-Do you feel that it is OK to beat up a homosexual, just because he or she is gay?

-If you shook a homosexual' s hand, would you run and wash it right away at your first opportunity?

-Do you think that homosexuals are always checking you out or thinking about you sexually when you are in the same room?

-Do you think homosexuals hate straight people and wish the whole world was gay?

If you answered " YES" to any of these questions, you might either be paranoid or experiencing the beginnings of it.

Also remember that God does not make mistakes. He is perfect. Are you saying He would allow for such an abomination to continue? You yourself said it is a gene defect. He destroyed Sodom and Gamorah, right? Back then it was only those two cities, but now it is worldwide (actually it has always been). Much more widespread. Why no wrath?

I received a telepathic message from Extra Terrestrials earlier and their message was:

" We are coming to Planet Earf.. We are coming to f*** you humans up! The day is near."

We are coming to f*** you humans up!

GAY ALIENS?????!!!?!?!??!?!??!?!??!?

-no
-no (if they have a disease, yes)
-well, they are gay
-i don' t hate homosexuals, i hate their lifestyle. They probably hate straight people for hating their homosexuality. Wish the whole world was gay? perhaps, that would make their desires fulfilled more easily.

Shows you have very little understanding of Christianity. No wonder you have negative attitudes against it. The more you ask me these stuff, the more naive i see your understanding is. Sodom and Gamorah were cities of the Old Testament. We live in the age of the New Testament. Salvation is different then and it' s different now, people in those cities have to obey laws AND love God for, today, Christians depend on grace while still following the more relaxed laws. Those 2 cities were destroyed because they did not have to wait for anyone. Read in Matthews chapter 24, the world will not end until ALL have recieved the message spread by Jesus (so ppl dont say " I didn' t get to hear!!!" ). Christians are promised of Jesus' second coming.
Ever heard of Judgment Day or End-time disasters? go do some MORE research for yourself.

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Halo 2

I see the Bible as fiction and not truth. It was written by men who are falible and who interpret events from their own point of view. It is not a documentary in book form. Anyway.....

-Gays won' t check you out unless they have reason to be attracted to you. Do you check out each and every individual female you come across, even those who are no attractive to you? You have about as much to fear from a gay person as an ugly girl does from you. Unless you are a super hunk or something.

I see the Bible as nonfiction and truth. It was written by men who had guidance and who interpreted events from their own point of view heading towards a Christ-centered teaching. It was several single-focused books put into a documentary form of a book. Anyway.....


sorry, i have no fear of gay people. just dislike and intolerance o their lifestyle.

I have not found unanswered contradictions in the Bible. If you have, then it is the falibility of your shallow understanding.

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Halo 2

To be THAT trusting... WOW!

Intolerance requires action. If no actual action is taken, it is tolerance. What action will you take to rid the world of the gay lifestyle? do you think it will ever be erradicated? What about masturbation? Bible says " no" .

let' s just say you don' t know my future.

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Halo 2

you know the gay marriages at San Francisco? the CA supreme court just voided all the gay marriage licenses and the mayor of that city admited to gay life and resigned. Maybe I' m too young to make critical differences (only 16), but support can mean participation in possible gay abolishment activities. I will defy gay marriages all the way, even if it means ending in failure, which I believe will be the result because I believe in the Bible, which says the world will take way of immorality before Christ descends. Then justice shall prevail. Why am I supporting failure-to-be moralities? Because I choose not to be an immoral person. I believe humans are naturally good. The fact that there is " good" and " evil" in the world means I have to take side. Everybody will recieve consequences depending on their actions. I choose not to add any of that burden upon myself.
And if you don' t believe the Bible, please don' t post it here. The day will speak for itself.

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Halo 2

Then justice shall prevail.

What world do you live in? No matter what you believe, justice (or your version of it) does not always prevail. According to what George W. Bush said today, you can have " too much" justice.

Just remember, just because you believe in the Bible does not mean it is true. Likewise, just because others believe in the Koran (or whatever) doesn' t make their books true. And just because I DON' T believe in the Bible doesn' t make my views true. They are only true to me. The world is full of possibilities, and I refuse to not let those who do not share my exact beliefs take part in this world. You are only 16, and at that age most people are struggling to be accepted and taken seriously by everyone else. I know I was. Hopefully you' ll be more tolerant of people and their differences as you age and mature. :)

i live in your world. True, justice does not always prevail, in finality it does. The fact that there' s " good" gives me hope in it. Justice involves restrictions, for example, people are equal under traffic laws, but the restriction is, u can' t cross red light. In this case, gay marriage is the restriction. Also, freedom in the US doens' t mean u can do bad stuff ( u can, but it belongs to restriction). Righteous, moral justice excludes gay marriage.

Check out the history of religions. Perhaps all except the first religion is true. Which are manmade religions? Which aren' t? May I remind you that Christianity did not start over 2000 years ago by a guy named Jesus? And that approximately 3/4 of the Bible was written BEFORE Christ' s birth? And that people in BC believed in the God that Jesus spoke of? I am not struggling to be accepted or to be taken seriously, I am simply stating my belief.

Hopefully you' ll be more tolerant of people and their differences as you age and mature. :)

I am tolerant of some things and not others. But for gay marriage tolerance, your hope is crushed.

ps, I still don' t hate you. I just have a straight-forward personality.

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But you hate Alleys. What have Alleys ever done to you?

Anyway gays don' t think that their lifestyle is unethical. Suicide bombers don' t think that what they do is unethical or immoral. People who don' t come to a complete stop at a stop sign don' t think that what they do is unethical. People that play video games instead of volunteering their time to help the less fortunate don' t think that what they are doing is unethical. My point? Who is to define ethics? You? Me? Your mom? Your religion? A suicide bomber' s religion?

As much as you believe in what is right or wrong, others who believe differently think that what they do is right and what you do is wrong, just as adamantly if not moreso than you in your beliefs. What if you were raised in a very strict Muslim (or whatever) family? Would you still somehow believe in what you do now? Or would you just fry in hell with all of the other heathens? Would that be fair to you, being that you were born in a strict Muslim (or whatever) family and lived in the type of world that denounces every aspect of Christianity? I don' t think God would love you too much if he let you burn in hell for that. In fact, if God let ANYONE burn in hell for ALL ETERNITY, I don' t think he is a very loving God. Nothing anyone can do on this earth is worth an ENTIRE ETERNITY of extreme torture. Nothing. If you think otherwise, perhaps you have no concept of how long eternity is. And if God can get that angry (anger is a human a flaw BTW), then I certainly want no part of that. I guess God is very vengeful. I think God was created out of people' s need to believe in hope, in something more after death, etc, which is fine. I think religion was created (partially) to keep people " in line" out of fear. It also gives people comfort in knowing that the bad people will " get theirs" after they die. You' ll go to hell for ALL ETERNITY if you don' t follow THESE RULES. Kind of like how some governments control their people... with fear. Fear works very well.

I certainly can' t (and won' t) make you change your beliefs, just as you have no chance at changing mine, no matter what you say. Just as you read my opinions and think of them as false (not intentionally deceptive or anything, just false), I think the same way of yours. And neither of us has any hope of changing the other. So this will basically go on forever and accomplish absolutely nothing at all.

So I' m done. Who' s da winner? Nobody.

I like the way you don' t exclude yourself from comparison and contrast.

I have a lot of comments to post, but since the thread " will basically go on forever and accomplish absolutely nothing at all" , it' s logical to end the thread and let life continue to flow. As I believe one day earth will host an event out of ordinary human events, I will let the possibility of that day answer all our questions. Life began, life must end....until then, eternity ---->forever, check out the root of that word: " until a time unknown" , not necessarily eternity.

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I can' t believe Bush' s daughter (whatser name?) is attending a gay wedding next month. What reputation is she putting on for Bush? She' s gonna further ruin his campaign! I guess Bush can' t have much control on his over-18-year-old daughter (she IS at least 18 right?).

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Halo 2

Ummmm... who cares?

Also she (they) are over 21.

Marriage is supposed to be a decision made by the two partners involved, not by the government.

If two, from the same sex, wish to commit themselves to each other for a lifetime, then who am I to say that they don' t truly love each other and shouldn' t be together.

Love is for everyone...not just an experience for one man and one woman.

Would you rather see people becoming non-social, or even worse - hating each other? That would be just plain stupid to choose non-socialization and/or hatred over love. Life' s too short for that kind of nonsense...

Both the Church and the Government have other issues which they need to address...

The Church has issues like spreading claims that they are the one true religion and -oh yeah-saving souls, feeding and clothing the poor, and stuff like that.

Governmental issues pertain to starting wars in foreign lands based on lies and personal interest (federal gov. specifically), jobs and the economy, education, ending homelessness and poverty, and feeding the poor.

I' ll close by saying that the Government and Church needs to butt-out of our personal lives! This is America...the land of the equal and free, not of the oppressed!

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

But according to some posters here, people actually CHOOSE to live that life.
Do people ***really*** think that ANYONE would " choose" to be gay knowing how most people feel about it and risk being ridiculed, fired from work, joked about, and even killed? Think about it! I don' t think so. People are what they are sexually. And I think people fear what is not the norm. Just look how freaked out people are over gay marriage. Seriously, they are VERY afraid, as if their whole life will change or something.

Technically, marriage is a church thing, but " civil unions" or whatnot can be and should be legally the same thing in every respect.

So how do you new people in the forum (at least new in this thread) think of gay marriages? Vanswa Garbutt, Starman Anthony, what_about_paul, Startrek guy, OBXOR, and some others I don' t remember. You guys should read back the previous pages before putting anything down.

Count of states accepting/banning gay marriages: that' s 2-1
Ban: Luisiana, Missouri
Accept: Massachusetts

Damned Democrats (most of them) and Republicans (a few of them) in the senate. An overwhelming number of Dems voted " Nay" , while an overwhelming number of Reps voted " Yay" . I guess this would lead back to their leaders: Bush and Reps against ssm, and Kerry (opposes but didn' t vote " Yay" , what a flip-flopper) and Dems are against ssm. Shows the difference between moral conservatives and immoral liberals.

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Halo 2

Kerry doesn' t vote " yay" yet doesn' t oppose it? I wouldn' t call that flip-flopping at all. He doesn' t oppose it but he doesn' t ENDORSE it either. That' s kind of like me. I really don' t care of the states officially approved it, but I don' t think they should go out of their way to make it illegal either. Remember Alley_Hater, everything isn' t always black and white (or as the Republicans like to say " You' re either for us or against us" ).

And really, like I' ve said before, who is to define morals? You? Me? Solid Snake? It depends on the society, and societies change constantly. I suppose you could use God as your reference, but then again not everybody believes in the same religion as you do or maybe not even at all. That only makes them immoral in your eyes. In their eyes I' m sure some of the things you do are immoral. You can' t always be right, and you are most certainly not when it comes to morals (neither am I, by the way). You also wrongly accuse all Liberals of being immoral and all Conservatives of being moral. That' s hilarious!

What you are seeing with these votes is the cold hard truth that there really isn' t that much of a separation from church and state. Religion plays a big part in government these days which to me is a bad thing. Gays should be able to marry just like the rest of us but I think way too much time is spent on this issue over others that are more important such as equal wages and stem cell research.

In response to the following complaint I have decided to change my signature:

" by the way, yoshimitsu you might want to click the little checkbox that makes your signature disappear." -Jonah Shoemaker, Residential Dumbass

Well said Yoshimitsu!

You are, of course, going to hell!

Kerry doesn' t vote " yay" yet doesn' t oppose it? I wouldn' t call that flip-flopping at all.

I meant opposing gay marriage but votes " Nay" on amendment.

This world is so blinded that they cannot focus on domestic issues like gay marriage. I have posted this many times, the basis for the world is good and evil, right and wrong. Starting from WWI, the world today was shaped by the most important turn in the century, WWII. If D-Day failed, the whole world would' ve been under dictatorship and today would not be as technologically advanced. To me, the more advance the world is, the more blindly the human judgment on moral issues is. An example on that, maybe you guys think such reality tv shows such as " wife swap" is ordinary, but I accuse it of adultery. Also, there are more violence, inappropriate language, and sex as the world moves forward. Advancement = liberalization, and liberalization means corrupting basic values. I forgot whether this is inductive or deductive reasoning, but, in early human civilizations, these problems did not arise to such a conflict that it has today. Plus, the fact that there is a male and a female gender, concludes me to believe that the union of a man and a woman was meant to be. What about the reproductive ability that both genders must unite to be successful? That is an obvious fact of the tendency for man to marry woman. I also blame on the wide freedom Americans have. The more free they are, the more chaotic they are. In Asian countries, for example, study shows they are more disciplined than Americans. In school, they do their work, they don' t throw paper, they throw their lunch trash in the trash, basura en la basura, they don' t cuss at the teacher, ... In my school, for example, American kids are poorly behaved, they do things Asian kids don' t. They fight, they cuss, they vandalize school properties. The most advanced country in the world is also the most corruptive in morality. Excerps from those who share my view:

Rampage99

I' m against gay marriage. That has a lot to do with my religious beliefs and the fact the way of the world is man and woman unite to make children-it' s how the world works. If they do allow gays to unite don' t call it marriage. Marriage is man and woman, make up a new name for it. Gay animals have been found to be mentally retarded which is the reason for their behavior.

Spacepiston

Look, Marriage is for a man and woman. Thats it. If a couple of gays want to play " man-and-wife" thats just too bad! Mainly because they are not man and wife! If your gay and you want to play man-and-wife, then grow up.

Russian Mobster

In the begining GOD created Adam and Eve not adam and steve. So im against fags and all their ways.

Myself

I believe humans are naturally good. The fact that there is " good" and " evil" in the world means I have to take side. Homosexuals have something wrong with their genes and/or hormones. Abnormalities should' nt be an excuse to change society. Would you follow the behavior of someone with ADHD? People who DON" T have problems with their genes/hormones are just crazy followers of some dumb trend.

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If D-Day failed, the whole world would' ve been communist

Communist? Wouldn' t it be a dictatorship. Certainly you are talking about Adolf Hitler, rather than Josef Stalin. Right?

My mistake Mikey...I keep thinking WWII was the period when the Iron Curtain was built. Yes, I mean dictatorship. I keep thinking of when the Soviet Union took control of Germany and turned it to communism. I will edit that.

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Halo 2

Addressing a few of your points above in no particular order:

What about the reproductive ability that both genders must unite to be successful? That is an obvious fact of the tendency for man to marry woman.

Ya don' t need to be married to reproduce there, smacky! Marriage is man' s (as in the human race) idea. Animals don' t marry. Religion is a loophole and I won' t accept that as an argument. If you want to think that I' ll burn in hell, that' s fine. But that argument carries ZERO weight with me. Anyway back to my point... just because it takes a man and a woman to pop out a kid does not mean they were meant to marry. And even then the purpose of mariage is not always to intrduce another asswipe into the human race. Lots of people marry and don' t have kids. I never ever plan on having kids (yes, I' m straight). The world is way too overpopulated as it is. Once again, marriage is just an idea, not something built in to human nature.

In my school, for example, American kids are poorly behaved, they do things Asian kids don' t. They fight, they cuss, they vandalize school properties.

Your school sucks an incredible amount of ass! And you say that you' re in America' s finest city? I don' t think it has anything to do with " too much freedom" . I think it has EVERYTHING to do with the way parents raise (or don' t raise) their dipsh!t kids. Many parents use the TV as a babysitter and/or don' t get involved enough in their child' s life. They just dictate rules and expect them to be followed. You have to do more than that when you raise your kids. More rules and less freedom wouldn' t make our society better, it would just make us all extremely resentful.

The most advanced country in the world is also the most corruptive in morality.

Holy crap! Taiwan in the most advanced country in the world? Or maybe Cambodia? I could go on and on with that one.

Excerps from those who share my view:

Ummm... who cares? Why not let them speak for themselves? What does YOU bringing THEIR posts back up supposed to convince us all of? Is someone who says things like " So im against fags and all their ways" supposed to make me somehow actually respect them or you?

To me, the more advance the world is, the more blindly the human judgment on moral issues is.

Well once we get to the point where we invent the time machine, maybe you can realize your dream and go back and live in the 1400' s. Things change, and it seems like you are afraid of change. I find your reactions hilarious!

If D-Day failed, the whole world would' ve been under dictatorship and today would not be as technologically advanced.

And you can prove this? Have you ever studied cause and effect? You say this as if you' ve actually seen the alternative present. You are talking out of your ass on this one, just guessing on what would have happened had D-Day (specifically) failed. Yes, the world would have been different, but I don' t think the entire place would be under one rule.

This world is so blinded that they cannot focus on domestic issues like gay marriage.

Why would the world concentrate on US domestic issues like gay marriage? Perhaps you meant to say that " this country" is so blinded instead of " the world" ?

My mistake Mikey...I keep thinking WWII was the period when the Iron Curtain was built. Yes, I mean dictatorship. I keep thinking of when the Soviet Union took control of Germany and turned it to communism. I will edit that.

Haha. Don' t worry about it. WWII is confusing. Nice writing though.

What' s wrong with cursing? I tend to like cursing...some of my favorite words are curse words. Fuck and Shit top the list for me!

In response to the following complaint I have decided to change my signature:

" by the way, yoshimitsu you might want to click the little checkbox that makes your signature disappear." -Jonah Shoemaker, Residential Dumbass

Curse words are just that: Words. They weren' t invented by Satan or anything. But they are words that society have deemed " rude" . You can be even more rude without using curse words, and it' s OK. I agree that curse words shouldn' t be overused or they lose their effect. Use them wisely.

whooooooh....do I regret bringing this topic back. It' s giving me more headaches now with a few posts than it did in the previous debate which gave way to 4 pages of posts. reggrefsdgesref....a leopard cannot change its stripes.

I think it has EVERYTHING to do with the way parents raise (or don' t raise) their dipsh!t kids. Many parents use the TV as a babysitter and/or don' t get involved enough in their child' s life.

That is another point I agree with.

And you say that you' re in America' s finest city?

I didn' t name San Diego " America' s Finest City" . Someone else or another group did, and they did it for particular reasons (although I don' t know which one they considered).

Holy crap! Taiwan in the most advanced country in the world? Or maybe Cambodia? I could go on and on with that one.

Lol...I cannot believe you didn' t understand that . By " The most advanced country in the world" I mean the United States. About corruptiveness, I follow with the fact that the medias are negatively influencing kids the most, therefore they are growing more fond of " liberal stuff" .

Ummm... who cares? Why not let them speak for themselves?

They HAVE spoken for themselves and that is where I get quotes from. Haven' t you ever quoted?

Is someone who says things like " So im against fags and all their ways" supposed to make me somehow actually respect them or you?

I never posted that I wanted anyone on this forum to respect me. I brought up past posts mainly as a means to support my position.

Well once we get to the point where we invent the time machine, maybe you can realize your dream and go back and live in the 1400' s. Things change, and it seems like you are afraid of change. I find your reactions hilarious!

Well, until you can invent one for me. Yes, things changed, and I' m against the changes. How many times have you accused me of being afraid of changes and having fears of this and that? A lot. And how many times have I responded that I am NOT afraid and I have NO fears of such changes. How hard is it to understand that I am simply against it? I will gladly die for just causes. Life ends in a flash, what am I so afraid of? " Hilarious" ?, and I you...

Why would the world concentrate on US domestic issues like gay marriage? Perhaps you meant to say that " this country" is so blinded instead of " the world" ?

And soon to be the world.

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Halo 2

Let' s talk about cussing, then. It' ll be fun!

Do people ***really*** think that ANYONE would " choose" to be gay knowing how most people feel about it and risk being ridiculed, fired from work, joked about, and even killed? Think about it! I don' t think so. People are what they are sexually. And I think people fear what is not the norm. Just look how freaked out people are over gay marriage. Seriously, they are VERY afraid, as if their whole life will change or something.

Joe, Joe, Joe...

Even employers cannot discriminate against sexual preference...it' s against the law.

I don' t really think that most gay people are living in fear like they would have say 10-20 years ago.

Gay people are a fact of life, not to be ridiculed...

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

Yes, you can be fired just because you are gay in a great many states, including the one I live in. And people still beat gays to death because they feel it is the right thing to do.