Why can' t we get it right?

I was watching Fox News this morning and they were running a story about eco-terrorism, and I just had to stop and think. Not about terrorism in America, or terrorism as a whole, but about pain and suffering. How people... nations spend their entire existence hating others, killing the innocent, whose only purpose in live is tit-for-tat. You hurt me so I' ll hurt you. To never forgive, to never regret. This world has seen so many great atrocities, but it’s as if we refuse to learn from the past. If anything, it is the past that gives us reason to hate. But is blind hatred not the most pointless cycle of all? After so many deaths, so much destroyed, and so many tears -- why can’t we get it right? I’m not looking for some big philosophical theory, just what you think is one of the many reasons this world is so screwed up.

A lack of open-mindedness
If people were more open minded then things wouldn' t be as bad
A large amount of the wars are due to religious beliefs because many cultures believe that their religion is the right one (or something like that) rather than having an open mind and seeing that different people believe in different things

Also peoples unwillingness to forgive and forget doesnt help
The eye for an eye thing is sometimes very (or too) difficult to step away from

If we were all followers of Buddhism (the philosophy, not the religion, perhaps I' ll start a thread explaining the difference) there might not be any problems. Well, okay, maybe between the Muslims and Jews, but they REALLY hate eachother. (Of course that would have nothing to do with Muhammed ripping off the Torah- the Jewish bible, pretty much the old testiment)

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

In my opinion, the single greatest and most destructive flaw of humankind is the desire for control over their realities. It is this that underlies all evil in the world - greed, hatred, fear, lust, etc., are all the result of people seeking to reshape their world according to their own design. Ultimately, in every case, the desire for power always leads to anguish, either on the part of the one who desires or those around them.

Unfortunately, there is no one in the world who is free of this defect. Furthermore, it seems to be a curse that cannot be removed by any human effort (after all, to try to change it is to give in to the desire for power right there). Even religion, with the possible exception of monotheism and Buddhism in their pure forms, usually turns into yet another effort to achieve power.

The question we are left with, then, is " What can be done?" For my own part, I believe that only through outside intervention can there be any hope for humantiy. Left on our own, we are doomed to desruction, one and all.

" The greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves."
-from Oedipus Rex

Religion!

Yes, everyone thinks that their religion is the one true religion. Somehow it is the only religion which manages to get it right. So why do people love religion so damn much? Fear of their own mortality. It lets them believe in an afterlife, and makes them feel more comfortable. People are simple folk and need the artificial comfort that religion provides.

I think the world would be much further along if it wasn' t for religion. George W. Bush put an end to stem cell research because it uses cells from aborted fetuses, and his religion tells him that abortion is wrong. Stem cell research could lead to cures for many diseases and better treatments for others. It' s almost as if George thinks people are having abortions JUST for stem cell research. Many religions also prohibit the use of birth control. People are gonna have sex no matter what. Why not endorse it and help fight overpopulation? Waitaminute... I know why... Because if birth control is not used, then there will be more " future members" born into that religion.

I really should shut up now.

I' m not trying to flame you or anything, but I do respectfully disagree with the statement that without religion we' d be further along. The early Christian church was a major supporter of the arts and sciences, and has been a major bringer of social reform throughout the ages. Also, it seems to me that a great many of the great scientific minds of the Western world have been fairly devout followers of their religions (I' m thinking of Einstein and Newton in particular).

I will say, though, that in my opinion, all humans could be considered religious. People have a natural tendancy to worship something, whether it be a deity, a concept, another person, or an object.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. It might be wise for someone to keep an eye on this thread so as to lock it before this gets ugly

" The greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves."
-from Oedipus Rex

Very well said.

My problem is when people begin to think that they are on higher moral ground because of their religion when compared to other religions. That' s when it gets ugly. If people could just learn to let others have their own beliefs and not worry about them, I think we' d do much better as well.

Yes, and the dark ages would have destroyed us had not the Hindu and Islamic followers had not been furthering science while we fought and killed eachother in Europe and forgot about science. My question to you, Idekii, is what did you mean by monotheism. Monotheism means you believe in one god, which the Muslims do. I' m not saying anything bad about them, but isnt there something wrong when the founder of your religion (Muhammed) tells you that to get to heaven you must kill people of other religions? I know that it does not go exactly like that, but that is what it has turned into.

Also, one of the largest religion conflicts are Jews and Muslims. IMO, which means try not to hate me for this, the Quaron (muslim holy book) and the Torah (Jewish holy book) are the exact same, except the Quaron replaces Jews as Gods chosen people with the arabs. IMO, Muhammed copied the Torah and made slight changes. (NOTE: The Torah was written a few hundered years before the Quaron, and if you dont believe me, read a history book) Also, during the christian crusades, in order to get the Muslims to fight, Muhammed conviniently claimed that an angle told him that if you died fighting for your religion that you went to heaven and got 71 virgins. (I got that number from my friend who is a Muslim)

Really, IMO, I dont see a point in killing over religion, because all religions to my knowledge discourage violence.

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

I was referring to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (yeah, I should have been clearer on that). And if memory serves, I think it' s only certain groups that believe that you enter into heaven by blowing yourself up. And it wouldn' t have been Muhammed saying that during the Crusades, since he was dead for about four hundred years at that point.

" The greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves."
-from Oedipus Rex

I tend to think it is poor logic and a copout to blame religion for teh evils of the world. Yes, there are religious fanatics, but you also have political fanatics, environmental fanatics. Fanaticism is just wrong, no matter what you tag before it. Yes, many wars have been fought for the sake of " religion" but many of hese had politcal roots and used religion as a cover. As well, take a look, there are many wars fought for political gains - many of the major wars of modern history as a matter of fact.

I guess only the most violent ones are based on religion then (look at what Isreal is going through). I don' t think it is poor logic, and surely not the ONLY reason, but I do think it plays a role.

You know who says that religion isn' t a negative factor of any kind in world relations? Religious people.

Actually, it seems to me that the concept that has started more wars than anything is the concept of land ownership. Countless wars have been fought throughout the years over territorial rights, which in some cases leads to bitter hatred between the sides, preventing compromise. I actually think that the current conflict in Israel is just as much about territory as religion (after all, the nation was founded on territory taken from the Arabs).

As for why religious wars tend to be so bloody, I think that goes back to the desire for control over the universe - after all, when someone comes along and declares that someone else' s beliefs are false, they will see it as a direct challenge to their very existence. In many cases, anything but war would be an indication of lack of control over their life - ironic, seeing how war is really the ultimate in chaos.

" The greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves."
-from Oedipus Rex

We as a species are able to commit terrible atrocities just as easily as we create things of beauty. Forget religon, wealth or whatever, if your ex-girlfriend can hold a grudge against you for five years then what hope is there ever going to be for world peace. Letus not forget however that in order to love you must be able to hate, both go hand in hand. The great contrast allows us to find a whole range of emotions allow the spectrum between love and hate.

Gosh so philosophical...swear it isn' t obvious I was out drinking last night ;)

Actually after thinking about it, I think MONEY would be much more of a culprit than religion. Everyone wants it. And when money is not directly involved, some form of " posession" usually is.

" It has always been easier to destroy than to create"
-Spock from Star Trek II: Da Wrath of teh KhaNxor.

Yes, and the dark ages would have destroyed us had not the Hindu and Islamic followers had not been furthering science while we fought and killed eachother in Europe and forgot about science. My question to you, Idekii, is what did you mean by monotheism. Monotheism means you believe in one god, which the Muslims do. I' m not saying anything bad about them, but isnt there something wrong when the founder of your religion (Muhammed) tells you that to get to heaven you must kill people of other religions? I know that it does not go exactly like that, but that is what it has turned into.

Also, one of the largest religion conflicts are Jews and Muslims. IMO, which means try not to hate me for this, the Quaron (muslim holy book) and the Torah (Jewish holy book) are the exact same, except the Quaron replaces Jews as Gods chosen people with the arabs. IMO, Muhammed copied the Torah and made slight changes. (NOTE: The Torah was written a few hundered years before the Quaron, and if you dont believe me, read a history book) Also, during the christian crusades, in order to get the Muslims to fight, Muhammed conviniently claimed that an angle told him that if you died fighting for your religion that you went to heaven and got 71 virgins. (I got that number from my friend who is a Muslim)

Really, IMO, I dont see a point in killing over religion, because all religions to my knowledge discourage violence.

i could go on all day talking about this religion says this or my friend said this, if u can' t b bothered to find the truth for urself then ur patetic.

the answers r out there, use ur brain and the internet. very good combination that.

ORIGINAL: jet2230
the answers r out there, use ur brain and the internet. very good combination that.

now that is some advice you should take from yourself

ˆHa ha!

Idekii and Joe, I think you two have got it. It is about possession, monetary or land or otherwise. The thing it, " religion" provides a great cover. Secretly the plan is to take back a territory, but if we do it in the name of our god it is justified.

Secretly the plan is to take back a territory, but if we do it in the name of our god it is justified.

Using religion as justification seems to go both ways. On one end it does act to justify acts of war but on the other most religious ideologies are totally against taking lifes and all about respecting the importance of life.

Another thing is that it is never anyones fault
It' s always I killed a lot of people yes BUT it was their side that caused me to go that far and then the other side essentially says the same thing
Eye for an eye but who took the first eye?

For sure. I think it is hmmm, shall we say ironic? But i guess, when a person truly believes they are right, they will go a long way to prove it.

No one likes to be told they are wrong and will go to great lengths to " convince" others to see things their way

lotusson,

You' re absolutely right.

There are enough natural disasters to worry about, that we (as humans) should be working together to overcome obstacles...not creating more of them.

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

.

Games I want: Starcraft: Ghost (went to gamestop and saw it on the shelf labeled " coming soon, reserve your copy today"
Halo 2

Everything relates back to religion (threads): senate votes over same-sex marriage, Kerry-Edwards or Bush-Cheney, why can' t we get it right?...Religion is a big concern...

Everything is based on good and evil, similarly are love and hate, right and wrong, negative and positive, happy and sad...I believe these are factors of SOME KIND OF ROOT. Such great philosophies cannot be undeveloped. " In order to love you must be able to hate." so I conclude as Rousseau (or was it Voltaire or some other philosophers?) stated " Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains." and " humans are naturally good." , the evil came later due to influence of some kind of negative effect that CAME TO humanity...
so...to be or not to be...to do or not to do...those are the questions...who, what, why when, where, how? Those are the questions.

Yes...somebody needs to keep an eye on this and lock it before it gets ugly.

Games I want: Starcraft: Ghost (went to gamestop and saw it on the shelf labeled " coming soon, reserve your copy today"
Halo 2