Yeah, whatever. MoH: Frontline is considered to be one of the best FPS' s ever, on consoles or otherwise.

With an average of 85%???? Okay…

So is TS 2, and so is Red Faction. You can keep trying to tell me that the only " great" FPS is Halo this generation on consoles, and I will keep telling you otherwise

Sure thing fathoms.

(along with every other reviewer on the planet).

Sure thing.

To be perfectly honest, I am AWFULLY sick about discussing Halo,

Then stop.

and I' m even more sick of people trying to sing its endless praises in veiled threads, which is exactly what this was.

Then don’t’ read it. I don’t care to hear how you’re “backed up” on games, but you don’t see many in that thread, do you?

You never had any intention of discussing other great FPS' s;

We discussed FPS’s, but great ones -- naw.

you just wanted to push Halo...of course, I shouldn' t be surprised.

Sure thing.

You don' t have to admit it, but it' s painfully obvious. Just refer back to my first answer in response to your question, which is " No." Okay?

M’kay.


-----------------------------------------

That' s not true. Rainbow Six 3 logs the most Live activity (or so I' ve heard) than any other game in existance and it was released quite a while ago.

But as a great title, or great to play online? I think RS3 is a good game, but I question it’s popularity without Live.

Also the fact that they continue to support the game with free downloads sends the message that this game is popular enough to continue to support even after it' s been out for so long.

No doubt it has a significant following, but I question it’s place in the history books.

I also find this to be false for RS3 (but obviously true for CS considering it doesn' t have a single player mode). It has an extremely immersive single player game-mode. I had a friend who played more total hours on single player RS3 then I did with Morrowind...and let me tell you, that' s no easy feat.

I can see that happening. But I rarely hear people talk of the single player of RS3. Not to say it’s bad, but it doesn’t have any sort of large buzz around it. Like, no one really brags about what they’ve accomplished in RS3 offline.

bottom line- halo is overrated, despite the many standards it has set. and i' m not aiming for an argument here, just trying to be the voice of reason. one way you could put it is- halo has a superior single player experience, and ts2, for example, is much more fun in the multiplayer dept.. don' t know about you, but i found that halo was lacking in multiplayer. you both brought up some good points though, but i think you kept going at it just for the sake of argument.

there, case closed ( i hope )

Good. So we' ve proven that lotusson is nothing but a massive Halo fanboy. I doubt you' ve even played any of the FPS' s I mentioned. You haven' t, have you?

panzer: Careful- you' re not allowed to say that about Halo in here. It' s some form of sacrilege. Remember, there are no other great FPS' s on consoles this generation. Yep, none. You best remember that, or lotosson here will respond with his one-word comebacks that mean little and prove nothing. And don' t bother substantiating your argument with actual evidence (i.e., reviews), because they don' t count unless people are " talking about them." Those are the rules.

Good. So we' ve proven that lotusson is nothing but a massive Halo fanboy. I doubt you' ve even played any of the FPS' s I mentioned. You haven' t, have you?

*yawn*

Fanboy is the first thing you scream every time someone disagrees with you. It only shows a lack of maturity and debating ability on your part. And lets be honest, you were never a great (or good) debater. Your best debating tactic is to destroy the image of the other post by screaming out FANBOY FANBOY FANBOY over and over again.

psst…. i think people are starting to catch on.

panzer: Careful- you' re not allowed to say that about Halo in here. It' s some form of sacrilege.

*yawn*

Why do you always respond like a hurt child whenever someone gets into a debate with you. You can keep a cool head for about 2 replies then you fly off the handle. M-a-t-u-r-I-t-y. Learn it. Use it. Save up to 10% on your dignity.

Remember, there are no other great FPS' s on consoles this generation.

And I still stand by this. None of the FPS’s shooters you listed have withstood the test of time. RS3 maybe and Counter-strike maybe, but take out Live and they don’t garnish much attention. Great games don’t get forgotten like TS2, Red Faction, MOH Frontline, and the rest of the games you mentioned.

Example: (and this is only using this forum as an example)
Goldeneye –

Greatest levels
forums.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=506&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=goldeneye&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#733

Favorite 5 of all time
forums.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=2697&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=goldeneye&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#2699

Favorite of all time
forums.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=2378&appid=&p=&mpage=2&key=goldeneye&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#2656

Goldeneye on DS
forums.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=5403&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=goldeneye&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#5406

Goldeneye in a F-Zero topic
forums.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=2090&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=goldeneye&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#2090

And please, note the name of the topic.
“Greatest levels”
" Faovrite 5”
" Favorite of all time."

Now do a search for Timesplitters 2 and you’ll see the person who brings up TS2 the most is – you. When one poster brings up a single game more than the rest of the forum it only shows that perhaps that game is greater in his mind than the rest of the gaming community.

Also note that TS2 did not make a single “Best of list” period.

Yep, none. You best remember that, or lotosson here will respond with his one-word comebacks that mean little and prove nothing.

*yawn*

One-word comebacks?

This comeback is already at least 10 words long you fool!

*yawn*

And don' t bother substantiating your argument with actual evidence (i.e., reviews),

You mean like your “Editor’s Choice” argument? Shot that down already. Plus, no matter how many “reviews” you bring up, the only console game you listed that got over (or even close) to 90% was TS2, and I’ve already showed how much of a joke that is.

because they don' t count unless people are " talking about them."

Great games wouldn’t be pushed aside. TS2 has been. Frontline has been. Red Faction sure as heck has been.

Lets face some facts fathoms – none of the games you listed withstood the test of time. A fad will best describe their place in history. A time of “good” FPS’s, but not great. A time of “many” FPS’s, but few worth keeping. A time when the king of console FPS’s is still waiting to be topped.

And since it’s apparent you’re plum ready to blow your lid, I take my leave before you cry on my shoulder even more.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

lotusson: I' m more capable of debating than you ever thought of being. " Yawn" doesn' t mean anything, and for that matter, neither does " snooze." Disagreement means that you concede points, which you haven' t done once. People disagree with you, and you respond that they' re just wrong. I don' t see any " IMO' s" from you...just me. And I' m the one that states my opinion as fact? LOL

I' ve already asked you to accept my opinion, which you clearly can' t do. I gave an answer and a reason why. I' m not the only person in the world who thinks that there are great FPS' s out there this generation other than Halo. You can think that I' m the only one if it will make you feel better, but in the end, what you think is of little interest to me. Why? Because you deem unproductive comebacks as being " rational."

If I say Halo is overrated, you can accept it or not. If I point to several glowing reviews of games, you can disregard every word written about them for your precious test of time. You can provide feedback in this forum, which is primarily Xbox-based in the first place, and you can even grow as tired as you like. None of that matters to me. I have my beliefs and you have yours, but because they don' t mesh, you have to freak. You keep suggesting in every post that I' m about ready to " blow my lid," but I find the entire exchange extremely comical. You asked a question, I replied, you didn' t like it, so proceeded to continue to state YOUR opinion as fact.

You, like skurf, lack reading comprehension. I already said that Halo was probably the best FPS ever on consoles. Did you miss it? I also listed viable complaints that others have voiced, but those were discounted without any real thoughts...your patented " yawn" just acted like an override button. Well, it did to you, at least. You addressed nothing, and came out looking like someone who never wanted to ask the question in the first place; just someone who wanted to worship Halo' s " greatness" . Next time you want to do that, just entitle the thread appropriately, and I won' t say a word. I thought we were talking about great FPS' s, and I' m sorry if they don' t pass your " test of time" exam.

Oh, btw, GR has TimeSplitters 2 ranked in the Top 10 ALL-TIME of FPS games. If you combine MoH, MoH: Frontline, and Allied Assault, those scores would put it 7th on that list. And so, in conclusion, obviously the only " great" FPS to you is Halo. You could' ve just said that straight out, like I suggested, instead of covering it up with a topic that you apparently know nothing about. I also asked you whether or not you' ve played any of them, and clearly, you haven' t.

It' s tough to debate when you' ve played none of the games you bash, yet I' ve played every game mentioned, isn' t it? Heh...of course you have to go by word of mouth and " test of time" ...you' re clueless on the issue yourself.

lotusson: I' m more capable of debating than you ever thought of being. " Yawn" doesn' t mean anything, and for that matter, neither does " snooze." Disagreement means that you concede points, which you haven' t done once.

[YOU EARLIER]
Yep, none. You best remember that, or lotosson here will respond with his one-word comebacks that mean little and prove nothing.

Why should I give replies like that any attention? I’ve addressed all the main points; I don’t bother with side comments like that. Comments like these deserve one word replies.

Disagreement means that you concede points,

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=concede

concede –
1. To acknowledge, often reluctantly, as being true, just, or proper; admit. See Synonyms at acknowledge.

2. To yield or grant (a privilege or right, for example).
If I concede I agree, not disagree.

I' ve already asked you to accept my opinion, which you clearly can' t do.

You want me to accept your opinion but will refute mines? That’s hypocritical. If you’re allowed to debate my opinion I can debate yours.

You can think that I' m the only one if it will make you feel better, but in the end, what you think is of little interest to me. Why? Because you deem unproductive comebacks as being " rational."

[EARLIER]
Good. So we' ve proven that lotusson is nothing but a massive Halo fanboy. I doubt you' ve even played any of the FPS' s I mentioned. You haven' t, have you?

panzer: Careful- you' re not allowed to say that about Halo in here. It' s some form of sacrilege. Remember, there are no other great FPS' s on consoles this generation. Yep, none. You best remember that, or lotosson here will respond with his one-word comebacks that mean little and prove nothing. And don' t bother substantiating your argument with actual evidence (i.e., reviews), because they don' t count unless people are " talking about them." Those are the rules.

And what was so “productice” about this? In fact it seemed a bit childish. I’ve been ignoring your side comments and sticking to the main points. In fact I’ve addressed and brought up way more points then you have, so lets not try and decide who’s more “productive.”

If I say Halo is overrated, you can accept it or not.

Already did. I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, am I? Merely that the games you listed aren’t as great as you think.

If I point to several glowing reviews of games,

The best game you came up with is Timesplitters 2 and I’ve already shot that down several times now. I’m not going through that again.

You can provide feedback in this forum, which is primarily Xbox-based in the first place,

Dude…. my above search involved Goldeneye…. on the Nintendo 64…. which isn’t related to the X-Box at all. In fact, my whole point is that games like Red Faction, Frontline, and TS2 will never be as fondly remembered as games like Half-Life, Doom, Counter-strike, or Halo. They’re not fondly remembered NOW. When great FPS’s are spoke of, names like TS2 hardly come up.

None of that matters to me. I have my beliefs and you have yours, but because they don' t mesh, you have to freak.

[YOU EARLIER]
Good. So we' ve proven that lotusson is nothing but a massive Halo fanboy. I doubt you' ve even played any of the FPS' s I mentioned. You haven' t, have you?

panzer: Careful- you' re not allowed to say that about Halo in here. It' s some form of sacrilege. Remember, there are no other great FPS' s on consoles this generation. Yep, none. You best remember that, or lotosson here will respond with his one-word comebacks that mean little and prove nothing. And don' t bother substantiating your argument with actual evidence (i.e., reviews), because they don' t count unless people are " talking about them." Those are the rules.

Really, who’s freaked out here?

You, like skurf, lack reading comprehension.

[ABOVE]
>>>Disagreement means that you concede points,<<<

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=concede

concede –
1. To acknowledge, often reluctantly, as being true, just, or proper; admit. See Synonyms at acknowledge.

2. To yield or grant (a privilege or right, for example).

If I concede I agree, not disagree.

I really wouldn’t be discussing “English” if I was you.

I also listed viable complaints that others have voiced, but those were discounted

Bringing up 2 year old points doesn’t change the fact that Halo is still as loved since it’s release more so than any other game you listed. We’ve heard all that stuff before.

Well, it did to you, at least. You addressed nothing,

I’ve addressed way more points than you have. Searched way more facts. Backed up way more of my points, and has flat out just out-debated you…again. Deal.

Oh, btw, Gamer’s Republic? has TimeSplitters 2 ranked in the Top 10 ALL-TIME of FPS games.

Source? If any. Your word isn’t too “trustworthy” if you know what I mean. I know you probably have a scanner, show us some scans.

I also asked you whether or not you' ve played any of them, and clearly, you haven' t.

Aside from Rising Sun (which I’ve only played at work) I’ve played them all. But… why would I ever expect you to believe that? Hence why I said nothing, because I doubt it would have made a difference.

It' s tough to debate when you' ve played none of the games you bash, yet I' ve played every game mentioned, isn' t it? Heh...of course you have to go by word of mouth and " test of time" ...you' re clueless on the issue yourself.

Yes, TS2 has been all but forgotten. Despite how great you believe it to be – look at the gaming media.

There simply is ZERO talk of TS2.

This is an example of how bad your example is.

Timesplitters 3 was announced and there’s not a single topic dedicated to it.

Hell, has there even been one preview for the game yet? Screenshots? Has anyone made a big deal out of it?

Doesn’t sound like much of a legacy to me.

Like I said, when great FPS’s are spoken of, Timesplitters is kept out of the conversation.

Now, do you have anymore meaningless cheap shots and malicious character attacks left? Because this whole “FPS” debate died a long time ago.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

Same old crap.

Hey lotusson, King of Addressing Points: HAVE YOU PLAYED THE GAMES IN QUESTION?

If not, you' re through. You can' t " shoot down" my opinion on a game if you' ve never TOUCHED it, genius. That goes for the rest of your argument, such as it is.

Hey lotusson, King of Addressing Points: HAVE YOU PLAYED THE GAMES IN QUESTION?

[MY LAST FREAKIN’ REPLY]
Aside from Rising Sun (which I’ve only played at work) I’ve played them all. But… why would I ever expect you to believe that? Hence why I said nothing, because I doubt it would have made a difference.

I just told you I played all those games. You’re not even reading my replies.

What a waste of my time.

I’m out.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

Fathoms, if you need an example of you passing your opinion off as fact just look through that thread about ' Great games that you can' t stand' or whatever that thread was called...you know, the one that got locked because you were being a little bitch.

Oh, and I really could care less about Red Faction' s reviews. Do you think it getting good reviews will change my opinion of the game for some reason? I think one thing that turned me off of the game was that I played it after Halo.

skurf: I shouldn' t have to explain this to you. Subjective vs. objective terms was the point of that thread; too bad nobody was bright enough to grasp it. Not once did I single out a particular game. It was a question of what certain words mean...unfortunately, few here can even figure out the English language, so there wasn' t much I could do.

I can see that happening. But I rarely hear people talk of the single player of RS3. Not to say it’s bad, but it doesn’t have any sort of large buzz around it. Like, no one really brags about what they’ve accomplished in RS3 offline.

The thing about great games that also incorporate a great online experience is that no matter how good the single player game is, what' s going to be talked about is the multiplayer. For me, once I beat a single player game there' s really not much to talk about, especially when there' s an ever-growing online userbase that is constantly improving. Take one of the best games of all time, StarCraft. It had a terrific campaign mode that everyone loved, but it' s multiplayer experience is what' s still talked about today. If Halo had Live do you seriously think we' d be discussing the single player mode still? I highly doubt it.

skurf: I shouldn' t have to explain this to you. Subjective vs. objective terms was the point of that thread; too bad nobody was bright enough to grasp it. Not once did I single out a particular game. It was a question of what certain words mean...unfortunately, few here can even figure out the English language, so there wasn' t much I could do.

It' s because you have a subjective view that you see as objective. In other words, you see your opinion as fact. Someone saying a game sucks is blatantly obvious that the word " sucks" is a subjective view. Why you can' t see that is beyond me. You were trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert on objective/subjective terms when what really matters is the content in which those terms are presented. You can' t just single out one word and say, " Whoaaa there, your entire post is not valid because you used an objective word in your subjective opinion," which is exactly what you did. You took a single word out of his entire post and said he was wrong because of it. That' s just ridicculous.

lotusson: Good riddance. Btw, GR is GameRankings, and taking into consideration all reviews in its database, TR 2 is in the top 10, as are the three MoH games.

skurf: A word is uttered. It' s " suck." It means, " bad," or " low-quality." It isn' t subjective. The word is always spoken or written by someone (this is how a word comes into being, if you couldn' t figure it out for yourself), so what that person believes changes the definition? I think not. Say what you mean, and use the appropriate words. The words describe your feeling, so it is strongly suggested that you select words that accurately depict those feelings. Feelings are subjective. Words like " suck" are not. That was the whole point, and it' s not that difficult to understand.

You' re such a hypocrite. You posted this recently in another thread:

" Triggers suck ass, IMO. I don' t want them for any game, especially racers. Any controller that has triggers gets trashed by me next generation. Either that, or there better be button configurations so that they' re not necessary."

If I were you (wow, what a scary thought) here' s how I would reply based on your veiw of subjectivity and objectivity:

*Ehm, ehm, turns back into Fathoms*
" Triggers cannot ' suck ass' in your opinion. You cannot use the word " suck" while describing your opinion on anything as that word' s sole purpose is for use in objective statements. By saying that a controller with triggers sucks, you are implying that the Controller S is a poor quality contoller, which it is not. You invalidate your entire opinion by saying that it sucks and are completely wrong--no matter if it' s just your opinion--you' re still wrong."

skurf: A word is uttered. It' s " suck." It means, " bad," or " low-quality." It isn' t subjective. The word is always spoken or written by someone (this is how a word comes into being, if you couldn' t figure it out for yourself), so what that person believes changes the definition? I think not. Say what you mean, and use the appropriate words. The words describe your feeling, so it is strongly suggested that you select words that accurately depict those feelings. Feelings are subjective. Words like " suck" are not. That was the whole point, and it' s not that difficult to understand.

You really have no clue what you' re talking about, do you? Suck is entirely subjective. So you' re saying if I were to say TimeSplitters 2 sucked, that means it' s utterly fact, and the game sucks and EVERYBODY, including the reviewers, think it sucks too? If anybody in this thread needs to learn the english language, it is entirely you. We all know you' re a hypocrite. We all know you' re a fanboy. We all know you try to use so much big words that people actually believe you' re smart or know what you' re talking about. We all know you' re a liar. There, done. Blatant fact right there. You can use your big ego all you want and try to deny it, but that' s exactly what you' ll be: in denial.

ANYWAY, on to the actual topic of this thread. I believe Halo is horribly overrated, however I think it still is a very good game. Hell, I still play it frequently to this day. Don' t even try comparing TimeSplitters 2 or the MoH series to it. None of them are anywhere near the popularity level in which Halo resides. GameRankings doesn' t mean a thing. Go to Xengamers/CloudChaser. Every time someone brings up GameRankings, they are flamed out of the freakin thread. Ratings don' t mean a thing; what does mean a thing is the popularity of the game. Halo is insanely popular compared to the games you have mentioned. And don' t even try claiming I don' t know a thing about those games because I haven' t played them. That' s complete BS right there. I' ve played every single one of those games numerous times through. IN MY OPINION AND MANY OTHERS, they are nothing compared to Halo.

I' m through. Arguing with you is worse than arguing with Ultrasabre at XG. Ya know why? Because you' re far more ignorant, naive, conceited, and flat out stupid than he is. In my entire forum going career, which has been around 6 years, I have never come across anyone more hypocritical than you. And yes, you DO present your opinion as fact. IMO doesn' t mean a thing when you phrase your opinions the way you do. And ya know what the great part about it is? Dozens of people fully agree with me. Get over yourself Fanthoms, you' ve already lost.

P.S. Try calling me a fanboy, I wanna see you try to weasel your way out of this and prove your hypocrisy once and for all.

All I have to say on the subject is that I had always hated FPS games until Namco' s BREAKDOWN.. I LOVE that game!!!

I think it adds that bit of innovation that the genre was lacking for so long.

You really have no clue what you' re talking about, do you? Suck is entirely subjective. So you' re saying if I were to say TimeSplitters 2 sucked, that means it' s utterly fact, and the game sucks and EVERYBODY, including the reviewers, think it sucks too? If anybody in this thread needs to learn the english language, it is entirely you. We all know you' re a hypocrite. We all know you' re a fanboy. We all know you try to use so much big words that people actually believe you' re smart or know what you' re talking about. We all know you' re a liar. There, done. Blatant fact right there. You can use your big ego all you want and try to deny it, but that' s exactly what you' ll be: in denial.

Woah...somebody didn' t pass 3rd grade. If " suck" is subjective, may I ask what is an objective term? Please, enlighten me. I' d like to know what terms you consider to be objective. Also, please do tell me what I' m a fanboy OF. No one has ever been able to answer this question...sad, really. And if you think these are " big words," you need to read a few more books. I do my best to dumb things down for certain low-IQ invalids like yourself, but hey, sometimes it' s too difficult to do.

By the way, this sentence:

" If anybody in this thread needs to learn the english language, it is entirely you."

...should not be written by someone who is attacking another' s grasp of the English language. Great sentence structure.

Woah...somebody didn' t pass 3rd grade. If " suck" is subjective, may I ask what is an objective term? Please, enlighten me. I' d like to know what terms you consider to be objective. Also, please do tell me what I' m a fanboy OF. No one has ever been able to answer this question...sad, really. And if you think these are " big words," you need to read a few more books. I do my best to dumb things down for certain low-IQ invalids like yourself, but hey, sometimes it' s too difficult to do.

By the way, this sentence:

" If anybody in this thread needs to learn the english language, it is entirely you."

...should not be written by someone who is attacking another' s grasp of the English language. Great sentence structure.

How am I not surprised? I knew you' d either deny or ignore everything else.



Once again, suck is subjective. What' s an objective term? When describing your own opinions about a game, there really are none. All words are entirely subjective, because, guess what, IT' S THEIR OPINION. How can you not see that? Oh I forgot, it' s because A) your opinion is fact and B) you' re always right!

What are you a fanboy of? PS2. You have always been one as far as I can remember, and that goes pretty far back to GW.

And about that last part? Sorry, I was mocking you.

EDIT: Oh btw, nice job at ignoring skurf pointing out your hypocritical statements. And mine in that thread too. Damn, you really are ignorant and naive.

PresAgent: Okay, what does any of this have to do about me? It' s a subjective vs. objective argument, not about my opinion. Unfortunately, you still can' t understand the simplest thing- if something is your opinion, use subjective words. If something is fact, use factual (i.e., objective) words. If it' s your opinion, say " in my opinion." Why am I the only one that can manage this?

Finally, I still laugh every time I see that someone says I' m a fanboy of PS2. I' m playing Onimusha 3 now, but it' s basically the first time in five months I' ve touched that system. Mostly Xbox and several PC and GBA games have taken up 90% of my game time in 2004. But of course, you know me better than me, because...well, because you think you do. LOL

Wow Fathoms. I' m not saying who is right or wrong, but using IGN and GameSpy as sources for what games are good/bad? Please tell me your kidding.