yoshi: You know, the only people that believe what you say to be true are Xbox fanboys like yourself. Now why would that be? I keep in touch with dozens of old GW and TGIF forumites through e-mail, and have done so for several years. You can think what you want, but you' re in the vast minority, my friend. I' d also strongly suggest you not act all high and mighty when you haven' t done a thing in this thread but insult me. So, unless you have something productive to contribute, get out. Simple.

Joe: I get what the point of the post was. And it' s not " all" subjective, as you would like to think. Some is, some isn' t. It really isn' t that hard to list out real reasons why you don' t like a game, rather than just flinging useless adjectives around that are not only pointless, but incorrect. Your opinion is your opinion; tell us why you think the way you do. The whole " it sucks to me" thing is extremely tired. The bottom line is, you wrote a whole lot in your post, but none of it is really worth reading, even for entertainment' s sake.

LOL

C' mon fathoms, get something new. I' M an Xbox fanboy? I had all 3 systems and were enjoying them all before you even had 2. I also have to love how EVERYONE loves you, and they try to keep in touch. Everyone I' ve talked to despise you for being you, for things like this.

BTW, I did insult you and I plan on to continue if that' s what it comes to. I found your first post, " annoying" , and decided that something needed to be said. I' m sorry you don' t have a sense of humor and have a major superiority issue. I apologize that not everyone believes the same thing as you. Please forgive me fathoms and let me stay in this thread oh big headed one!

Also, looks to me like I' ve contributed more than you to this thread. Those are actually my thoughts on Ninja Gaiden and Chronicles of Riddick.

yoshi: You' re a moron, you know that? You call me a " crybaby" and then you whine about how I always have to be " right" . Right about WHAT?! There' s not even a right or wrong issue here! Maybe you could explain where that is.

And if you want to deny that 95% of all your posts dating back to TGIF have been Xbox-oriented, go right ahead. I don' t care what you have, or what you say you have; I know what you post about. That' s all I can go on.

So let' s just say this- instead of opening your mouth when it isn' t needed, you can find something better to do with your time. You don' t like me, which is fine. So stay away from me; I have no interest in turning things into flame wars just because some idiot like you feels they have to make their presence known for no reason.

Somebody, Any body, please HOLD ME!!

consider yourself held

I take the opposite stance as Terry on Sonic the Hedgehog. I enjoyed the first one quite a bit, and the second one was kind of cool, but not as good. I didn' t like that orange item following you around. But Sonic 2 was the first console game to ever interlace/run in high res... during the two player screens. Sonic 3 seemed to have chunky graphics and a chunky soundtrack.

Even though I played the original a little bit during the early 90s I didn' t play enough of it to really formulate a concrete opinion. In a nutshell, the original Sonic The Hedgehog was the 2nd to last Sonic platformer I ever really played on a Sega console.

I started off with Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic R on the Saturn, then Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast), then Sonic 2, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic 3 on the Genesis Nomad, and THEN I played the original Sonic the Hedgehog. So by playing everything else first I was so used to their extra features and moves that when I finally got around to the original Sonic it felt way too bare boned. I remember dying a few times in the game because I forgot that I couldn' t do Sonic' s moves from part 2 or 3.

Super Mario 2 (US version) was the best one! I didn' t care too much for Mario 1 and 3 (they were fun, just not as good as part 2). I loved part 4 (Super Mario World).

I adored Super Mario World, I felt that was the best one :)!
After that I liked the original. While it wasn' t as fancy or flashy as its successors, it was still a classic and the only true Super Mario Bros. arcade release. (I don' t count those cheap Playchoice 10 units and Super Nintendo arcade units.)

3rd place, Super Mario Bros. 3, while regarded by many as the greatest in the series, I found the game to be pretty good and completed it recently. However it has the easiest bosses of any Mario game I' ve played. Afterwards comes Super Mario Bros. 2..

Last F' n place is Super Mario Sunshine! To me this game felt like one big public service announcement game. I swear I would NOT be surprised at all if in the next Mario adventure on the GameCube or Nintendo' s next console players are charged with the task of recycling paper and collecting any other piece of trash littering the towns.

Hey Fathoms, I did say why I didn' t like the games. FF7 was boring. You may have had fun with it. That' s great. But to me it was boring. Why? I don' t know. I wish I knew! Anyway obviously my stuff is worth reading and pretty hard to ignore. And you keep reading my replies and responding to them! Look we' re at two pages already! And this thread isn' t even 48 hours old yet. Around here, that' s not too terribly shabby.

Anyway this is a negative thread (games you HATE) and my next one will be the complete opposite.

Joe, I see both sides and realize what is really going on. I' m not saying that you are, but I believe that Fathoms thinks you are representing your opinions as if it were common fact. Yoshimitsu, you haven' t made this any better by insulting someone that you felt was insulting someone else. (And I' m not saying if he was or was not insulting) Now everyone stop this arguing and get on with the productive posts.

I don' t have a problem with whether or not you found a particular game " boring." I have a problem when you equate " suckiness" with a game that is probably the most critically-acclaimed RPG of all time. Objective terms being used to describe a game makes the poster sound like he' s stating opinion as fact. So just change the verbage.

Ben, (I can call you Ben, can' t I?) maybe it' s just the language barrier. Obviously FF7 is critically acclaimed and many peeps like it. It' s just the way that you interpret the language I use to describe it. Take the movie Freddy Got Fingered for example. From a technical standpoint it is one of the worst movies ever made. And for me, it was one of the worst from an entertainment standpoint as well. I could easily say the movie sucks. However, believe it or not, there are some people who love the movie, and love the way it was made. Does the movie still suck? Not to them. But it does to me. With your logic, nothing can possibly suck.

I still say such a term is subjective. Now if I went and said that the game was riddled with bugs, was in black and white, and/or could only move your character left or up because the down and right buttons didn' t work, that' s entirely different. Something can suck for one person and not for another. If you don' t like " suck" , then I can use another word. How about a simple non-threatening word, like " bad" . The game was bad for me because it was boring and it offered no entertainment value... for me. There' s really not any other way I can say it.

Anyway I' m still havin' fun... I' m not pissed at you or anyone or anything like that.

Joe: You' re still not getting this. The English language has words in it that have real definitions. English slang also has real definitions, even though they' re more open to interpretation. By my logic, the things that suck are of low quality. By your logic, nothing sucks unless someone says so. By your logic, there is no such word as " quality" if you think everything is subjective. If you have a Porsche and a Pinto, I suppose it would be possible that someone, somewhere, prefers the Pinto. They like it better, for whatever reason. So they can say, " I don' t like the Porsche," but they can' t say " the Porsche sucks." The first is a subjective opinionated statement, the other is a statement of fact because it' s using a word that describes the quality.

By your logic, you can add the two words " to me" at the end of every factual statement and turn it into a subjective one, and that' s incorrect. I say, " the sun is hot," and you say, " no, it' s only hot ' to you.' It' s not hot ' to me.' " Great, now there' s no more fact anywhere. Everything is gray area; nothing is black and white.

There are subjective parts of games, and there are objective parts of games. You can say that you liked Kabuki Warriors more than Virtua Fighter 4, but you absolutely cannot say that VF 4 " sucks" or that Kabuki Warriors is " better." Creatively and technically, it' s simply not true. It' s not an opinion. As we get closer in comparisons (i.e., Rallisport 2 vs. PGR 2), it gets more and more subjective.

The simple bottom line is that by labeling games with your OBJECTIVE terms, you are insulting them and everyone who can recognize their inherent quality. If you say something is boring, I won' t say a word. That' s your deal. If you say something sucks when it absolutely does not, regardless of your own personal opinion which is being STATED as fact with objective terms, then I will. Call it a pet peeve of mine.

Fanthoms (haha, had to bring that back from the dead)- You' re getting out of touch, pretty much grasping for straws. You used the whole crybaby thing way after the alloted time to. If you wanted to use that you should' ve mentioned that from the get-go. Instead you read it, post something, then after my next post decide that I' m a crybaby...hence the grasping at straws.

As to the 95%...I' m a little sad you even thought to put up a number. Who goes and thinks this stuff up? Oh yeah, 99.9% of the people from Segaweb (shout out to Lotusson) hated you. That last .1% are a combination of figments of your imagination and yourself, divided equally.

Finally, if I don' t like you then it should stand to reason that when you do something that I don' t like I should speak up. This guy comes in here to make this completely harmless thread. Next we have you, Fanthoms, showing up telling us all how crap and suck just aren' t good things to say about a game you do not like, as if we all didn' t know that already. I' m sure you' ve heard this before, but I' ll go ahead and say it again...dude, get a life.

Also, some statistics to enjoy:

100% of Lotusson enjoyed the Segaweb part of this post, and coincidentally 100% of Segaweb enjoyed Lotusson.
79% of the people here do not like you.
100% chance fanthoms replies to this spouting same ole b.s.
90% is my rating of Chronicles of Riddick, an Xbox game because I' m an Xbox fanboy.
100% of the folks at VIP are getting a good life at you right now fanthoms.

I seem to remember someone named Ben who, in the past, had rather serious issues with stating his subjective opinion as fact. He also had a nasty habit of magically showing up in any thread where Final Fantasy or Gran Turismo were discussed in anything but glowing terms and leading productive threads astray.

In an effort to contribute to the thread...

Counter Strike (PC): Marginally good, but over time, hillariously boring...How people can still be playing this today amazes me. What' s truly disturbing is how devoted people get to this game, and rigorously they defend it when questioned.

Warcraft III (PC): Heroes, to me, ruin the concept of an RTS. A single character should not be able to slash through whole platoons of regular units. Admittedly, I think that I just don' t completely understand the mainstream RTS...Something like Close Combat or Shogun is more my thing.

Sega GT (DC, PC): I' m not sure if anyone really loved this, but I' ll put it down anyways. The handling is so, so, so poor,. It' s like you' re driving a full shopping cart or something...Sadly, I actually have three copies of this game (JP DC, US DC, PC), though the last two were dirt cheap on clearance.

yoshi: Gee...99%. Funny...at least a dozen of them are at another forum I routinely post at. Guess you didn' t count them. Just checked e-mail...four more...maybe you missed those too. Oh wait...you' re just counting Sega fanboys, who I' ve always hated, and honestly don' t care a whit if they hate me. Xbox was too young to really have any real followers before GW went down...so, the Sony and General forums had forumites in them too...none of which I remember having a problem with me. Unless of course you' d like to LIST THEM for me. With that 99%, how hard could that be? I' ll be waiting. P.S. Are we including TGIF too? ' Cuz if so, it' s just YOU and maybe Rampage that have a problem. That 99% number just keeps getting stranger and stranger...

After five years in about eight different forums, including nearly 10,000 posts at GS in the past two years, hundreds upon hundreds of forumites I have fun dealing with every day, and you' re the only IDIOT dumb enough to continually attack me for no apparent reason. Maybe you didn' t notice, but there was never an actual flame between Joe and I; we' re actually just debating. No one' s going nuts...' cept you, because you feel the need to say what you want.

You know, I go out out of my way to avoid people I don' t like. I don' t really engage them in flaming contests just because I feel the need to prove something. And seeing as how it' s ALWAYS you coming after me and not the other way around, there is a perfect solution: stay away and shut up. Your " crybaby" comment is typical; you' ve got the emotional maturity of a six-year-old. So just stay out of my face, and I' ll stay out of yours.

And then there' s Anthropic...to this day, has yet to admit he was wrong, about anything. A rampant Sega fanboy if there ever was one (Sega' s official death is sweet justice for deluded creatures like this kid here) who consistently tried to place himself above others. Maximum hypocrisy, and the pitiful technical blather designed to cover up his appalling lack of actual knowledge is always entertaining, and if yoshi wants to keep digging and go for this war, where he just finds old enemies of mine, I encourage it.

I always like revisiting old idiots. They never change. I doubt Anthropic has even stuck his head out of his basement long enough to see what sunlight looks like.

Rodney King: " Why can' t we all just get along!"

lotusson, care to hold me some more??? LOL

Gee...99%. Funny...at least a dozen of them are at another forum I routinely post at. Guess you didn' t count them. Just checked e-mail...four more...maybe you missed those too. Oh wait...you' re just counting Sega fanboys, who I' ve always hated, and honestly don' t care a whit if they hate me. Xbox was too young to really have any real followers before GW went down...so, the Sony and General forums had forumites in them too...none of which I remember having a problem with me. Unless of course you' d like to LIST THEM for me. With that 99%, how hard could that be? I' ll be waiting. P.S. Are we including TGIF too? ' Cuz if so, it' s just YOU and maybe Rampage that have a problem. That 99% number just keeps getting stranger and stranger...

So you keep saying you keep in touch with so many people from TGIF and GW? Prove it. That' s right, PROVE IT. If you are truly being honest, you would have no trouble getting atleast half of that number to come in here and reply.

The fact of the matter is, you' re a hypocrite. Joe has every right to say a game sucks. Do you know why? Because he thinks it does. He' s not implying it' s fact, he' s simply stating his opinion that the game sucks. But then again, this is coming from a guy that thinks everything he says is fact.

And on to Anthropic. You say he spouts technical blather to make people think he' s smart? Do I need to get every single member from both the main forums I frequent along with him that he has helped with technical problems to post in here? Trust me, that number would rank up in the hundreds.

Fathoms, you' re an idiot. And yes, that is fact, not opinion.

P.S. I' d really like to see what you have to say about me, oh GW-all-knowing one. I can almost guarantee that you will make something up about knowing who I am.

I haven' t the slightest idea who you are. Personal insults are always easier than real debate, something none of you are capable of. It' s too bad, really...you don' t even bother to read the thread. I' ll tell you what: anybody has a problem, I' d suggest quitting this flame war and trying a real subject. Pick it, and we' ll talk. Guaranteed that just about everything you assume about me is incorrect, but maybe not.

Go right ahead, whoever you are. Or Anthropic. Pick something, anything. It doesn' t even have to be game-related, although that would make more sense for these forums. As a staff member, I' d like to not do my part and keep this forum from going insane (hey, you can attack my reviews, if you want). So you want something productive, then pick the topic and post it. I' ll deal with it tomorrow. If you' d rather act like children, that' s fine too.

Ya know, the great thing about my previous post is I knew you were going to completely ignore every single point I said. I knew you would just use your amazing selective hearing skills and just ignore every single thing. But then again I' m not surprised at all, you' ve always been conceited and naive. And the funny thing is, you can' t even prove you have friends either.

As for this thread, here are a few games that I can' t stand.

Everquest for starters. IMO it just sucks. I can' t stand the gameplay, and think it' s horrendous.

Another popular one is Project Gotham Racing and PGR2. Ya know why? Cause it sucks. Yeah, that' s right. I hate racing games for the most part, and this one I really don' t like.

Gran Tourismo is another series I don' t like at all. It sucks because I don' t like racing games, and this one series is the most realistic of all. If I play racing games, I tend to go for the more arcade-ish games. Realistic ones like this bother me.

Another game I don' t like is Metroid on the Gamecube. It sucks horribly. They completely went away from what the game was originally about, and changed it to an FPS instead. I think that was a horrible move, because it could have been truly better if they stuck to the original style. Now, it just sucks.

I' ll tell you what: anybody has a problem, I' d suggest quitting this flame war and trying a real subject. Pick it, and we' ll talk.

Fine, here' s the subject: Prove that these mysterious hundreds of friends from GW and TGIF that you claim you have and keep in touch with exist. That' s a real topic I' m sure everybody here wants to know.