I think we all need to look back to our roots

Now days all we seem to care about is graphics and how long games are, why you may ask, simple, It' s because were spoiled nothing less than that. No body seemed to care back in the day when you could beat mario or any of the other hundreds of nes games in about 45 min or less, hell i can beat the first mario in about 6 min. They were great times but now a game can be 8 hours long and its short, its not about how long a game is its about the experience that comes along with it. so why do we bitch, because we can? No, it' s because we just wanna be heard what happend to having alot of different kinds of games now days there' s nothing but sequels and bull shit how many fucking grand theft autos and street fighters do we need. We need something new to play like back in the good ol' days with milons secret astle, zombies ate my neighbors, and smash tv. We dont need anymore tony fuckin hawk or racing sims or sports sims what happend to mutant league and base wars im so sick of madden and fifa if i wanted to play real sports id go outside for fucks sake quit half making games too. prime example halo 2 and fable, the only reason halo 2 sold so much was lies they got lucky and the multiplayer was great but th campaign was shit. I want more f-zero and psychonauts and sam and max so plz for the love of god game companies do what you did in the beginning and be original quit rushing games and give them the time they need and if you have to clone games ( true crime, godfather, scarface this means you) dont fuckin make them. There are so many things that can be done these are games they' re not reality you can do anything are people mike miyoto, davi jaffe, and tim shafer (i think thats right) the onlyones that realize this anymore plz these are game and theyre supposed to be fun lets keep them that way. And square enix should have never combined star ocean 2 on ps1 was awsome but til the end of time just felt forced hell squre you haven' t made an amazing game since ff7 the best thing to come from you was dragon quest 8 but that was prolly because of akira toriyama (thank you)! I just wanna know what the hell happened and it will ever be fixed. We need more games like chrono trigger and terranigma or ff6 (ff3). I really hope this generation isnt the death of games worth playing. And what the hell is sony doing with the ps3 trying to kill themselves $700.00 does anyone remember the Panasonic 3DO it was $700.00 and look wat happened to it at least nintendo still knows what they' re doinno more than $250.00 I want a game system not a machine that can recognize 7 controllers play blue ray and make me dinner I want to play fuckin games... I think I' m done for now. thank you!

Paragraphs dude. Use paragraphs.

I look at that huge pile of words and don' t even bother reading it, perhaps if you used paragraphs as said...

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

I suppose you had to vent and just wrote all that huh?
Lots of opinion there.
Games that are short are still appreciated if they have great replay value, like arcade games or fighting games. They always have great replay value.
But games like Splinter Cell, MGS and some RPG' s aren' t very fun to play all over again since the story or the surprice elements are the key features.
That' s why we want long games instead. And if they' re long then you can' t remember everything and you' ll actually appreciate a second playthrough.
Back in the days we were happy to have something that played well.
Now when the competition is harder we have raised the bar for what is tolerable and if we pay $499 for a game, it better lasts!
I think videogame companies are as creative now as they' ve always been. Maybe not within the bigger franchises but look beyond them and you' ll see lots of creative titles.

Now days all we seem to care about is graphics and how long games are, why you may ask, simple, It' s because were spoiled nothing less than that. No body seemed to care back in the day when you could beat mario or any of the other hundreds of nes games in about 45 min or less, hell i can beat the first mario in about 6 min. They were great times but now a game can be 8 hours long and its short, its not about how long a game is its about the experience that comes along with it. so why do we bitch, because we can? No, it' s because we just wanna be heard what happend to having alot of different kinds of games now days there' s nothing but sequels and bull shit how many fucking grand theft autos and street fighters do we need.

We need something new to play like back in the good ol' days with milons secret astle, zombies ate my neighbors, and smash tv. We dont need anymore tony fuckin hawk or racing sims or sports sims what happend to mutant league and base wars im so sick of madden and fifa if i wanted to play real sports id go outside for fucks sake quit half making games too. prime example halo 2 and fable, the only reason halo 2 sold so much was lies they got lucky and the multiplayer was great but th campaign was shit.

I want more f-zero and psychonauts and sam and max so plz for the love of god game companies do what you did in the beginning and be original quit rushing games and give them the time they need and if you have to clone games ( true crime, godfather, scarface this means you) dont fuckin make them.

There are so many things that can be done these are games they' re not reality you can do anything are people mike miyoto, davi jaffe, and tim shafer (i think thats right) the onlyones that realize this anymore plz these are game and theyre supposed to be fun lets keep them that way. And square enix should have never combined star ocean 2 on ps1 was awsome but til the end of time just felt forced hell squre you haven' t made an amazing game since ff7 the best thing to come from you was dragon quest 8 but that was prolly because of akira toriyama (thank you)! I just wanna know what the hell happened and it will ever be fixed.

We need more games like chrono trigger and terranigma or ff6 (ff3). I really hope this generation isnt the death of games worth playing. And what the hell is sony doing with the ps3 trying to kill themselves $700.00 does anyone remember the Panasonic 3DO it was $700.00 and look wat happened to it at least nintendo still knows what they' re doinno more than $250.00 I want a game system not a machine that can recognize 7 controllers play blue ray and make me dinner I want to play fuckin games... I think I' m done for now. thank you!

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Yeah, the Gamecube-Playstation2-Xbox era is the worst generation of videogames so far. I can' t believe such a generation produced Super Monkey Ball and F-Zero GX. I think there might have been a few more good games, but this generation will be known as the " war simulator" generation.

PS - I hope my post is on topic with what the thread is talking about.

Sounds like somebody needs a reality check.

The game industry has changed so get over it. It is now a multi billion dollar industry. Development costs for games have become stupidly high and the cost of failure these days is great. This means game developers tend to stick with what is " safe" . They' ll stick with a franchise like Tony Hawk because they know it' ll sell well.

This is not to say that there' s no innovation. There' s still plenty. I' m still playing Oblivion - the game that practically shattered my conception of what was possible in a game. And in my spare time I' m playing the highly addictive LocoRoco on my bro' s PSP. Both of these games were released in the last couple of months and both are highly innovative in my opinion. There are plenty more out there - you just have to open your eyes a little and look past the franchises. And don' t forget Ninty is still doing it' s thing.

The " good ol' days" as you put it will always seem better because nostalgia blurs your vision of it. We relate games like Smash TV, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, etc to our own happy childhood memories. This makes them, in our eyes, superior to everything else we' ve played because we get that " fuzzy warm feeling" inside whenever we play/remember them.

I agree with what you say about Sqaure Enix. I don' t think they' ve had a good title in a while now. Hironobu Sakaguchi doesn' t even work at Square Enix anymore so that might have something to do with it. He' s got his own studio " Mistwalker" and I am eager to see how Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey turn out. The same can be said about Rare.

edit: I don' t think Halo 2 was a bad game. Personally I didn' t think it was as good as Halo 1 but that doesn' t make it bad.

Joe in my view, this gen has been better than last gen. Check my ' current gen classics' thread and you will see what i have been talkin about.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Thanks goes out to Terry Bogard. I was kinda rushing while I was typing and I believe that, yes, there has been innovation, but not the kind the industry needs. Perhaps companies like EA should go out on limb, like they used to and make new games. Fuck being " safe" , the industry has never been about being " safe" . Look at games like: god of war and psychonauts, hell even guitar hero, they weren' t safe, but they were amazing and the only one that didn' t sell like crazy was psychonauts.

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

Thanks goes out to Terry Bogard. I was kinda rushing while I was typing and I believe that, yes, there has been innovation, but not the kind the industry needs. Perhaps companies like EA should go out on limb, like they used to and make new games. Fuck being " safe" , the industry has never been about being " safe" . Look at games like: god of war and psychonauts, hell even guitar hero, they weren' t safe, but they were amazing and the only one that didn' t sell like crazy was psychonauts.

Guess you have no idea how the business world works eh? It' s all about making money. There are companies out there willing to take the risk of losing millions of dollars on a gamble but you' ll find that the majority of big companies - like EA don' t need to take risks. Their current franchises make a large amount of money as it is. I have next to me a list of the top 20 selling PC games for May 2006 (in Australia because that' s where I live) and EA has 9 of the 20 positions. It also has the number one spot. The top selling game is The Sims 2: Open for Business. The rest of EA' s places consist of LOTOR:BFME2, Star Wars: Empire at War, and then a multitude of Sims games.

The list sounds bogus yes? I certainly wouldn' t have guessed that many Sims games would be that popular but it' s true. Gamers are no longer just the " hardcore people" like it used to be. Gaming has become less of a nerds world and become more accepted by the mass consumers. Companies make what the mass consumers like. That is why brilliant games like Psychonauts fail to make an impact while the ten millionth Sims expansion gets first place. As avid gamers with a lot of experience, games that we think are brilliant aren' t necessarily accepted by the mass consumers. It' s a shame I know but that' s the way things are now.

There are still pioneering companies out there but the real money is with the mass consumer. And any sane company will always head to the money.

Yeah, the Gamecube-Playstation2-Xbox era is the worst generation of videogames so far.

If we put DC into PSX,N64 and Saturn era , then I totally agree.

It' s obvious we' ve become picky cause we' ve deveoped preferences and expactations - it' s pretty rare for anyone to start his sexual life with a playmate , but that doesn' t mean he can' t expect girls to be hot after he' s tried many.

Unluckyone, your right about the masses and that being where the money is, I completely agree. But what I' m trying to get across is that this is a damn shame, it' s a damn shame that the industry has fallen to not only generation whores but now there' s even sequel whores and clone whores and it' s sad that people run out and buy annuel games like madden, nascar, and dont forget the latest 2 fifa games. all I can really say is thank god there are people in the industry that think the way us gamers do and by gamers I' m talking people like myself and I' m sure you can stand beside me on this unluckyone that remember the 8 and 16-bit era' s like they were yesterday. I jumped on the scene in 1987 when i was 2 playing harley davidson and pitfall on my aunts atari 2600 and ive been hooked every since so it really makes me cringe to see it wind up where it is today.

I think there are anough amazing games to play through every generations - but you have to be openminded enough and loose you loyalty.

If you have all systems , or at least play games for all those systems (not neccesarily the day they are out) , then you' re a happy gamer.

There will always be the vast sea of crap surrounding AAA titles , but thanks to reviews , rentals and things like that , we know which one is good and which one is from EA :)

I said EA but to be honest they are becoming at least a decent publisher.I hated EA games for years (they were all the same - max 7,5/10) and now they own SSX, Burnout, Black (pretty nice debiut for criterion)and lot' s of quality games - not all AAA but many of those are 9/10.

Speaking of EA not taking too many chances, it seems like they might be going somewhere with their latest - Army of Two.

If you want something that calls back to the " good days" , Army of Two is a strictly co-op shoot-em-up, in the vein of classics such as Contra and the likes.

Hopefully this title will be successful and fuel the fire for more original IPs.

I agree with both of you! EA ha been doing better and yes black was an amazing game, so was burnout and ssx hopefully Army of two will kick ass as well (the tampon things great). I kinda wish they would take games from way back like zombies ate my neighbors and smash tv and conquest of crystal palace and remake them though so many forgotton classics (need i say little ninja brothers) and remake them for the generation of gamers that didnd get to experience the 8-bit greatness alot of us did.

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

I agree with both of you! EA ha been doing better and yes black was an amazing game, so was burnout and ssx hopefully Army of two will kick ass as well (the tampon things great). I kinda wish they would take games from way back like zombies ate my neighbors and smash tv and conquest of crystal palace and remake them though so many forgotton classics (need i say little ninja brothers) and remake them for the generation of gamers that didnd get to experience the 8-bit greatness alot of us did.

They should just release them over Xbox Live! As a matter of fact...

Smash TV

I dunno Im a heavy beleiver of progression. I wouldn' t opt out of this and newer gens just for a trip down memory lane. Thats what Xbox Live is for and possibly PS3' s service and definatly Nintendos virtual console. Some people just have a phobia of change even the most subtle and meaniless.

Ok, maybe you should read what i said. I didnt say re-release I said remake not just a trip down memory lane it' d be more like deja-vu except alot prettier and a fuller experience as a whole and it would let this new young generation of gamers see that there were great games before Halo, Dead or Alive and so on. Thats what I' m trying to get across, instead of yet another grand theft auto how about a new river city ransom.

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

Ok, maybe you should read what i said. I didnt say re-release I said remake not just a trip down memory lane it' d be more like deja-vu except alot prettier and a fuller experience as a whole and it would let this new young generation of gamers see that there were great games before Halo, Dead or Alive and so on. Thats what I' m trying to get across, instead of yet another grand theft auto how about a new river city ransom.

1. Remakes suck ass (ie, Altered Beast, Golden Axe)

2. You can' t go back. You can' t show the younger generation that there were good games back then because the world (and gaming) has moved on. Memories are great, but forward progression is what we need.

I' m all about the new. If our roots were so good then we wouldn' t need the new. Videogames are one of those few things in life that is always improving and besting itself. Everything else just seems to get worse. That' s why I love videogames so much, theres always something new to be excited about. Ive played hundreds of games on several systems since I was seven when dad bought me a then bran new NES. I have to say the xbox 360 is by far my favorite out of all of them.

Videogames are an artform (in my opinion the highest) and it has always been restricted by technological limitations. Now that technology is catching up, we are starting to see the true potential of videogames.

Ok, Chee Saw how old are you. Yes some remakes do suck ass but thats because they get rushed and have shitty budgets but if they would give them the time and respect they deserve and if you were a true gamer you would see that games are not that innovative anymore yes there are some and they get the props they deserve and qb vision dont count neither does a new targeting system. What nintendo is doing is innovation.

Game Junkie, it would seem your just another generation whore I could show you so many people that would agree when i say the super nes was the best games then were awsome and co-op was great, but i do agree the x-box 360 is awsome I know I had one and got rid of it and as far as the industry improving and besting itself I guess your intitled to your opinion but i' d like to know how cause I' ve owned everything from a commodor 64 and intellivision all the way up to the 360 and the way the industy went is just sad. I believe this gen holds alot of potential lets just hope they dont fuck it up because with this much money involved its almost a make or break situation.

Remakes suck ass!

Almost always it' s a completely different team working on the remake and almost they royally fuck it up.

Ninja Gaiden on Xbox was technically a remake but was in a sense more of a re-envisioning and the Gamecube remake of Resident Evil was created by much of the original team.

Fuck being " safe" , the industry has never been about being " safe" . Look at games like: god of war and psychonauts, hell even guitar hero, they weren' t safe, but they were amazing and the only one that didn' t sell like crazy was psychonauts.

Rubbish. There has always been an aspect of " safeness" in the industry with movie tie-ins and the like being around since the very beginning.

Until 15 or so years ago the " non-safe" games were in general put together by bedroom coders who had no funding in a time when games didn' t make a lot of money.

Now companies spend millions and have to look after their investment, making certain they make more than they spent putting it together.

It' d be nice to have more games like Psychonauts or Beyond Good & Evil but most companies aren' t prepared to take the risk.

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

Unluckyone, your right about the masses and that being where the money is, I completely agree. But what I' m trying to get across is that this is a damn shame, it' s a damn shame that the industry has fallen to not only generation whores but now there' s even sequel whores and clone whores and it' s sad that people run out and buy annuel games like madden, nascar, and dont forget the latest 2 fifa games. all I can really say is thank god there are people in the industry that think the way us gamers do and by gamers I' m talking people like myself and I' m sure you can stand beside me on this unluckyone that remember the 8 and 16-bit era' s like they were yesterday. I jumped on the scene in 1987 when i was 2 playing harley davidson and pitfall on my aunts atari 2600 and ive been hooked every since so it really makes me cringe to see it wind up where it is today.

I feel the same as you. I' m sure most gamers who have been around for a while do. But we can' t go back. We need to go forward. I tend to look past all the generic Sims: Sequel #432, Generic WW2 shooter #212 and focus my attention on developers I know I can count on. Developers like Bioware, Bethesda, Irrational, etc. I' m also always on the lookout for new IP' s like Supreme Commander (spiritual successor to Total Annihilation), Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, etc. Nintendo is still entertaining as always too.

I think because of the vast number of games out there now, you have to look that little bit harder to find what you want.

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

Ok, Chee Saw how old are you. Yes some remakes do suck ass but thats because they get rushed and have shitty budgets but if they would give them the time and respect they deserve and if you were a true gamer you would see that games are not that innovative anymore yes there are some and they get the props they deserve and qb vision dont count neither does a new targeting system. What nintendo is doing is innovation.

I' m 30, and my first video game " console" was this...



The Magnavox Odyssey^2. We had 3 or 4 games on that. My next console was an NES. We got it the first Christmas it was out, and the two brothers who lived across the street from us got the Sega MS. I think I played both about equally. I' ve also owned the SNES, Genesis, Vectrex, Nintendo 64, Gameboy, GBA, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, 360, and have had lots of time with the Turbographics 16 and Commodore 64.

And let me ask you; how is a remake innovative? That, in and of itself, is an oxymoron.

Now let me tell you why remakes suck. As Majik stated, yes, some different team than the original usually fucks it up, but let' s dig a little deeper, shall we. When you remake a game, you are restricting yourself creatively. There is source material that cannot be ignored as well as subject matter. As such, there is usually very little innovation and fewer " chances" being taken than with an original IP.

Secondly, we all have fond memories. Yes we all had that great feeling deep down inside the first time we saw an emotional cut scene in Final Fantasy! We all had that anxiety rushing through our bodies when we first beat Mother Brain and had to escape before the time ran out! How can you remake that? You can' t. You can' t redo a " first time" . All you can do is move forward, and look for the next " first time" . Your first " double kill" in Halo. Your first house purchase in Fable. These are the things to look forward to. Not something that' s in the past. There will be many such things in the future, trust me.

Innovation is rare. It always has been. There' s just a lot more games now to choose from.

When you look back on the old days, you remember the good games. There was a lot of crap back then too.

The seeming lack of innovation we see now is more the fault of the consumer than the industry providers. Innovative and new franchises get created all the time, and they get largely ignored.

Take Psychonauts for example. Look at how much trouble the developers have to go through just to try to get backward compatability on 360. Everyone who played the game loved it, but it simply didn' t sell as well any established franchise, so MS, just like any responsible company, is passing it over for more popular stuff.

You guys all made great points and I loved the comment about first times, sorry for sounding like an ass Chee Saw. And I completely agree but look at movies like War of the Worlds, Freaky Friday, Longest Yard, The Omen, and The Exorcist, they were remade for a new generation that didn' t get the chance to have that first time. And if they put that time behind like Tecmo did Ninja Gaiden Or Capcom did the first Resident Evil (which added a couple of new first times). Then they would make that money.

I' d love to think that some of my favorite old franchises could be remade, and be awesome again. I guess I' m just kind of cynical nowadays because of all the crap remakes. I mean, Tomonobu Itagaki said that Ninja Gaiden wasn' t even Ninja Gaiden. Tecmo just wanted him to use that name, but it wasn' t a remake, or anything. It was fresh and new. I think that' s what needs to happen. For instance, Prey could' ve easily been renamed " Xenophobe" like the old NES game, and people would' ve said " WOW. What a remake!" But it was an original idea that was not hampered by restrictions of an older title.

Personally, I' d like to see Actraiser and Kid Icarus remade and made better than ever, but you know what? If they announced that either of these titles WAS being remade, I' d shed a tear.

I' ve heard rumors of a new kid icarus title for the wii I dont know how true it is but it would be great! I myself would love to see Crystalis for the nes redone I think with newer technologies it would sine like mr. Cleans dome. What games would the rest of you guys like to see and what are your problems with the industy?

ORIGINAL: Jenova_dark

I completely agree but look at movies like War of the Worlds, Freaky Friday, Longest Yard, The Omen, and The Exorcist, they were remade for a new generation that didn' t get the chance to have that first time.

Jenova, we all have the chance to see these movies for the first time, if we want to look them up. I don' t know about Freaky Friday and Longest yard, but the rest of these remakes don' t live up to the originals. Neither did new Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Hills Have Eyes, Assault on Precinct 13, King Kong, blah de blah de blah.....

I think it' s the same for video games. On the other hand, I think making the same characters with different storylines (say like Batman Begins) can work really well, for both movies and computer games. New Super Mario Bros is a great example.

I would love, love, LOVE to see Super Dodge Ball damnit!

There are countless titles I would love to see remade/updated....

Guerrilla Wars, Punch-Out!!, Chrono Trigger (Square keeps shutting down fan-remakes), Mega Man 2 (mainly soundtrack, do a little pseudo-3D effect), just to name a few.

I love ignoring my current- and next-gen systems for days, weeks, or even months and returning to my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Atari. It' s not simply " gaming nostalgia" calling me, it' s the fact that these games truly are good, well-done games. Does that mean that if a game like those (2D Side-Scrollers, Top-Down RPGs) were to be made today, that it would be a classic? Not necessarily.

It just seems as though some companies (not the industry as a whole) have lost their footing when it comes to making good, fun games. Sometimes I want to mindlessly run around on a killing spree, or collect the cool power-up in the middle of a level, or defeat one of eight robot bosses with their own weakness!

I love where gaming is going, but I also love where it has been. It seems as though the Major Three are realising this as well with their emulated titles and the likes. Microsoft is steadily balancing both the new and the old, and I strongly hope Nintendo and Sony can follow suit. I love playing Mega Man after a strong MP battle in LOTR BMFEII!