The " Game" Breaking Industry?

Im curious as to if colorblindness will be a serious problem. Ive managed ways around it for the most part, but Im quite sure it' ll eventually kick me in the ass.

While I don' t know much about color blindness I would think that a colorblind artist would have no problems with modeling and animating characters and backgrounds... I guess where the real challenges would come in is where texturing is concerned since you' ll have to work with colors at that point.. But from what I' ve read, companies tend to have individuals assigned to different tasks.. For example, one person' s job would be to model the characters/backgrounds, another person' s job would be to apply textures to the created models, and another person' s job would be to animate them, so I think there' s some flexibility there. But that' s just my expired opinion, lol :)

Isn' t Maya like the most expensive 3D package software?

Currently I think the award goes to " Houdini" . I was reading a price listing in a 3D Graphics magazine today and they had Houdini listed for $17,000.. Holy Mackeral!!!!1!

I got so excited when I heard they had used 3DS Max for Orta' s hair (if I
remember correctly) in Panzer dragoon, only the lord knows why I got excited,
I don' t even know myself. That book sounds interesting Terry, any idea where I
can get my hands on one? Ebay? Or any good book store?

According to the book, they used various 3D packages to achieve the results that they did in Panzer Dragoon Orta..

The dragon model was created with 3D Studio max and was animated using Softimage 3D... Here are a few other excerpts taken from the book:

" All the characters excepts the hero were created with the polygon-based modeling of Softimage 3D and the spline-based modeling of 3D Studio Max. However, all of the motions were added with Softimage 3D."

" Almost all of the map backgrounds were created with 3D Studio Max."

" Minoru Kusakabe, 3ds max director, managed the 3ds max team that created Orta' s motions, and Akira Suzuki, Lightwave 3D specialist, supervised the Lightwave 3D team. LightWave was used for action scenes.Takuya Imamura, Orta model designer, modeled Orta using Metasequoia, and Kenichi Kutsugi, facial animator, added all the expressions."

" For the CG model, Orta was created in Metasequoia. The dragon was created in both LightWave 3D (regular edition) and 3ds max (detailed version). Orta was later converted to 3ds max so that her hair, expression and motion animation could set up. The dragon animation was also set up in 3ds max, except for its complex movements, which were transferred and set up in LightWave 3D"

Hehe, I LOVE the behind the scenes techno babble

As for the book, I got it from Amazon.com...

I think one of the more interesting things I read in it was:

" There was a time when the staff tried to figure out whether they should use Dreamcast or PlayStation 2 as the primary platform software for Soul Calibur 2. Many considerations factored into their decision to go with PS2. Take for example, the issue of color setting. Dreamcast is based on YUV color, while designers use full color. However, PlayStation 2 is based on index color and requires time... Even though the increased polygon counts that are possible with PS2 software helped enhance the picturesque quality, the workload also increased and all of that consumed considerable time. It took about twice as long to produce each stage for PS2 platform than it did to produce the same stage for the edition created for the Dreamcast platform. Maya was the main tool used in the production of Soul Calibur 2."

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Don' t rule out journalism as a route into the industry. I started writing for Kikizo about 2 years ago and now work at a developer, though to be fair still as a writer (as that' s what I want to do)... but the opportunity is there to move about the company.

If you have some awesome artwork (2d or 3d) then post on really well known (to the industry) sites like...

http://www.cgsociety.org/

...my man Cliffy B posts there along with other people from the industry and it' s sites like this where they find great digital artists. Oh, and it might be worth getting into jtypes goodbooks (sending him money would be best!) as he has multiple known industry contacts. He runs a games design degree (akin to the one i' m on) and so any advice he gives you should be helpful!

Majik, that site is..... Awesome!

The 3-D stuff I have seen there alone has made me speed up my work, thanks
for that great link, I won' t be posting anything on there until probably the end of
the year.

According to the book, they used various 3D packages to achieve the results that they did in Panzer Dragoon Orta..

Some developers have too much time and money on their hands. Is it absolutely
necessary to use more than one software program to achieve what you want? Or
can you just do it on one program? There are probably things that one program
can do easier than another... Like animation processes. Although I suppose the
more time and effort you put into something, the better it comes out.

Is it always the projects with big budgets that are successful?

And, this is probably a really silly question...

Why on earth are there a lot of crap games out there?

Note: I' ll probably answer that question myself later in the thread.

Original: Hidemoto

as Terry said, online tutorials for 3d suck big time....i tried to learn from them but i ended up with even more doubts than i started.

3DS max comes with its own tutorials, they are pretty good to follow, the only
problem is retaining the information you have learnt, which is one of the most
difficult things to do.

Don' t rule out journalism as a route into the industry. I started writing for Kikizo about 2 years ago and now work at a developer, though to be fair still as a writer (as that' s what I want to do)... but the opportunity is there to move about the company.

Which developer? Or are you not at liberty to say.
Journalism was one point I would have considered, what do you need for that?
I can write well, but what other requirements?

Journalism seems like loadsa fun, you guys seem pretty down to earth and not
stuck up your own arses.. (Some editors/journalists are like that which is annoying).

How many staff are there at Kikizo?

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

I often wonder about what the future holds for me really, I' d love to work in the industry again, but I love the flexibility and freedom I have in my current job.

Saying that I' d switch to PR in a flash was an opportunity come up, but I' d miss the creative input I have currently.

Anyone got any bright ideas!?

Right now im in school trying to get everything straight with my artwork
so once i gradutae,
i' ll have something to take with me and show.
So when i go in to look for my high level entry position ill have something to show.

If you have some awesome artwork (2d or 3d) then post on really well known (to the industry) sites like...

http://www.cgsociety.org/

...my man Cliffy B posts there along with other people from the industry and it' s sites like this where they find great digital artists. Oh, and it might be worth getting into jtypes goodbooks (sending him money would be best!) as he has multiple known industry contacts. He runs a games design degree (akin to the one i' m on) and so any advice he gives you should be helpful!

like tiz already said, awesome link man...after seeing this one i am also feeling extra motivation to work....like they say: " if you wanna do something great then compete with the best"

About the game demo issue...my goal with it isn´t to break in after doing it....this will be a promotional exercise...a way to understand all processes of game making and hopefully to showcase a good story telling ( as many of you may remember me bitching around saying that the most important thing in a game was story while all of you told me " IT´s ALL ABOUT GAMEPLAY" ...it´s true that now i value more gameplay than before but story like shenmue and final fantasy 7 still make go nuts about a game.

I know that in this HD era and even in on current gen there is no way a one man show production could be sucessful but i am aiming for game directing so i order to show the concept of the game i am have to do the rest too.

The posting on the site thing might work
as long as you remember to put your name

I often wonder about what the future holds for me really, I' d love to work in the industry again, but I love the flexibility and freedom I have in my current job.

What did you work as before in the industry? Any great tips you can offer like,
what is the importance of a concept artist, and how important are they?

Right now im in school trying to get everything straight with my artwork
so once i gradutae,
i' ll have something to take with me and show.
So when i go in to look for my high level entry position ill have something to show.

Just make sure that the stuff you had can be games related, theres a difference
between drawing well, and drawing what is required, if you can re-create a Da
Vinci picture really well, that is good, but developers are more interested in your
own ideas and they will look for how they can benefit from your work. Not the
fact that you can copy, but how well you come up with your own ideas..

I know that in this HD era and even in on current gen there is no way a one man show production could be sucessful but i am aiming for game directing so i order to show the concept of the game i am have to do the rest too.

One man shows tend not to do well, but it is a start. I am only talking from
personal experience where I have been able to motivate people just from pitching
the idea to them.

A game demo seems to be one way of showcasing your talents, but I think it
would have to blow everything else away in order to appeal to the developer, I
think most developers are looking for that " Killer App" that they can show and
everyone will be like bloody hell!

In response to my question before:

Why on earth are there a lot of crap games out there?

I was watching Cybernet (not realy on mainstream tv but on sky channel 163,
and it' s on everyday from 4.00pm-5.00pm), and a title called Winback 2:
Project Poseidon popped up.

This game was in the making for 7 years (so they said) but looked like
utter garbage. 7 years???? What the hell were they doing? I reckon I could of
made a game that is far better than that with their time and resources...

If you thought your garbage smelt bad, try this stinker on for size...

jtype, it would be really good if you could share some of your experiences
with those of us still wet behind the ears...

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

They obviusly pulled a Dave Chappelle and blew all the money and time one
reefer.Why else would a 7 seven year game suck.

They obviusly pulled a Dave Chappelle and blew all the money and time one
reefer.Why else would a 7 seven year game suck.

Maybe the timescale was 7 years, but it' s likely they stopped development
in between for other projects, so the total time actually spent on the project
may amount to only 2 months.... who knows.

Jtype, whats the minimum number of people you recommend that are needed
to work on one videogame?

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Man, I' d like to work in the videogame industry but I don' t have any talent and I' m to old to start learning now. But good luck to you guys, make sure you give me some great games in the future or I' ll break your weak developer arms and legs.

Good point and ithink at least 20 people to work on a game
director
graphics coordinator
10 people to work one layouts a movement
5 people to do testing and tightrn graphics
2 people to leak cheat codes to the public
and 1 person to advertise

I thought publishers did the advertising part?

Ok and 1 publishing company

*laughs uncontrollably*

Yeah, if you include the publishers, it' s probably around 30 people per game.

Depending on the size of the
publishing agency it could be 25 or maybe 30
So i guess between 20 and 35 people

what is the importance of a concept artist, and how important are they?

Very. BUT, concept artists don' t work throughout the entire development cycle.

The good thing about being any kind of artist within this industry is the sheer amount of creative input you have. You don' t even need to be a great artist, you just have to be able to come up with tons of stuff very quickly and convey ideas that are easily understandable.

Ofcourse your portfilio would have to have lots of scope and include a multi-tude of different sections (characters, weapons, vehicles, buildings etc), or if you' re specifically looking to be say a character concept artist you' ll be joining a MASSIVE queue and it' ll be hard to get yourself noticed.



The easiest way to get people to see what you can do is put together something like a comic. Make it long enough with a detailed story and get accross most points you' d want in the game and then get a developer to have a look at it. You' ll have shown that you can create likable characters (or not), shown your artistry skills, shown that you can create characters to fit into environments and into a storyline. That kind of thing will get you loads of kudos.

Just remember that developer DO look out for people who can' t draw/model/whatever the human form accurately. It' s almost impossible to cover up.



Cliffy B posts on http://www.cgsociety.org/ and guys like him pay a lot of attention to whatever critism (and you' ll only get good critism there, -- and you need to take notice of what the guys say) your work gets and what you do about it.

If multiple posters suggest adding or altering something to make it better/whatever, it' s worth doing or at least thinking about because you never know who will see it.

Always accept critism, it' s good for you.

Don' t rule out journalism as a route into the industry.

Good point!

Good point and ithink at least 20 people to work on a game
director
graphics coordinator
10 people to work one layouts a movement
5 people to do testing and tightrn graphics
2 people to leak cheat codes to the public
and 1 person to advertise

I think you need minimum, 20 people to work on the intial development, also
some games don' t usually need cheat codes, but hey, I always thought they were
mistakes, but cheat codes aren' t necessarily fundamental to a gameplay
experience...

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

The easiest way to get people to see what you can do is put together something like a comic. Make it long enough with a detailed story and get accross most points you' d want in the game and then get a developer to have a look at it. You' ll have shown that you can create likable characters (or not), shown your artistry skills, shown that you can create characters to fit into environments and into a storyline. That kind of thing will get you loads of kudos.

Pretty much what got Akira Toriyama into the videogame industry eh?

Forget about development team sizes. It' s NOT important and lends nothing to the topic at hand.

Man, I' d like to work in the videogame industry but I don' t have any talent and I' m to old to start learning now. But good luck to you guys, make sure you give me some great games in the future or I' ll break your weak developer arms and legs

Ginjirou, how old are you exactly?

The easiest way to get people to see what you can do is put together something like a comic. Make it long enough with a detailed story and get accross most points you' d want in the game and then get a developer to have a look at it. You' ll have shown that you can create likable characters (or not), shown your artistry skills, shown that you can create characters to fit into environments and into a storyline. That kind of thing will get you loads of kudos.

Just remember that developer DO look out for people who can' t draw/model/whatever the human form accurately. It' s almost impossible to cover up.

The more you say, the more I see that I have a good head on my
shoulders, I am atm storyboarding my story, and trying to animate (when the
time comes) bits and pieces of the story.

And about drawing the human form, lets just say I have had too many naturist
" life" drawing sessions to not be able to draw the human form.

Cliffy B posts on http://www.cgsociety.org/ and guys like him pay a lot of attention to whatever critism (and you' ll only get good critism there, -- and you need to take notice of what the guys say) your work gets and what you do about it.

Something I overlooked a bit. I have only done criticism with the people I " work"
with but I would love open-ended criticism from industry insiders. Can' t put
anything up now, as it is always a good idea to copywright your work first right?

Which I haven' t done yet..

Majik, you should get Cliffy B to post on Kikizo..

Forget about development team sizes. It' s NOT important and lends nothing to the topic at hand.

So when companies boast that they have a development team of 75 people,
thats just to make the work easier right? But you can theoretically make a game
with 10 people, I always thought that you don' t really need too many people
to make a game, but Majik' s right, there' s no point in talking about the team
size at this point.

Pretty much what got Akira Toriyama into the videogame industry eh?

Is that the DBZ guy?

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Man, I' d like to work in the videogame industry but I don' t have any talent and I' m to old to start learning now.

Age is just a numba .. I don' t think you' re too old.. A few years ago I remember reading an inspirational story about a man who got into 3D modeling and animation at the age of 45.. He bought a copy of Lightwave 3D, locked himself away in his room and poured a lot of time and energy into learning the craft. He later (about 2 years later I think) wound up with a job at Industrial Light and Magic.

Some developers have too much time and money on their hands. Is it absolutely
necessary to use more than one software program to achieve what you want? Or
can you just do it on one program? There are probably things that one program
can do easier than another... Like animation processes. Although I suppose the
more time and effort you put into something, the better it comes out.

I don' t ' think' you NEED more than one professional 3D modeling and animation program to achieve what you want but from what I' ve read in the past, 3D artists like to take advantage of the pros of the different packages...

For example, I can get a decent looking animated ocean going in Bryce 3D in a few minutes. Doing the same in Lightwave 3D or 3D Studio Max would take me about an hour.. BUT instead of just taking the easy route and buying Bryce I' d rather just invest the time in learning how to do it all in Lightwave 3D.

For game developers, time is of the essence and if one program can perform a certain task at half the time of the others with comparable or better results then they' ll mix and match em together..

Back when 3D Studio Max 3 was still pretty new, I enjoyed how easy it was to utilize special effects.. I could create a short animation sequence where I blew up the Earth with ease and it looked pretty decent to. But I was never crazy about Max' s Renderer. The images looked too clean. But that was in Max 3, the program has had some massive improvements in various areas since that time. On the other hand, I LOVE Lightwave' s renderer but performing the same Earth destroying effect took more time and tweaking. It could be done but just not as quickly or as easily and I believe that' s one of the major reasons why artists tend to use multiple programs.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

The easiest way to get people to see what you can do is put together something like a comic. Make it long enough with a detailed story and get accross most points you' d want in the game and then get a developer to have a look at it. You' ll have shown that you can create likable characters (or not), shown your artistry skills, shown that you can create characters to fit into environments and into a storyline. That kind of thing will get you loads of kudos.

Just remember that developer DO look out for people who can' t draw/model/whatever the human form accurately. It' s almost impossible to cover up.

Actually i started as a comic artist....i always enjoyed doing comics and i currently have one in progress and another one in develpment phase...also writing a novel ( still struggling to have the best story structure as possible...learning as much as i can). I guess that could be one way but to be honest there tons of people sending scripts and making comics these days ....and many of them are really talented, so that´s why i am focusing on learning game´s mechanics... a fully functional game demo can really showcase your idea. I believe it´s easier to get noticed this way. Also if you post your demo on the web and get great feedback eventually game companies might look at you.

quote:

Man, I' d like to work in the videogame industry but I don' t have any talent and I' m to old to start learning now.

Age is just a numba .. I don' t think you' re too old.. A few years ago I remember reading an inspirational story about a man who got into 3D modeling and animation at the age of 45.. He bought a copy of Lightwave 3D, locked himself away in his room and poured a lot of time and energy into learning the craft. He later (about 2 years later I think) wound up with a job at Industrial Light and Magic.

true...age isn´t everything, in fact age gives you experience in life which can be a big help in game development. It does in every aspect of life.

Back when 3D Studio Max 3 was still pretty new, I enjoyed how easy it was to utilize special effects.. I could create a short animation sequence where I blew up the Earth with ease and it looked pretty decent to.

I get the feeling you' d rather be on a different planet me thinks Terry!

I know who to go to now for tips on how to blow up my home planet!lol

So I suppose I should stick with one program and hopefully I will meet someone
that can creATE like (for example) an ocean quicker and at the same
quality that I can, and then share ideas then. SO I will just stick to one program..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

ORIGINAL: Tiz

I get the feeling you' d rather be on a different planet me thinks Terry!

Actually, in this thread:
https://forum.kikizo.com/tm.asp?m=52149&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1

he says

I really reaaally need to get off this planet!

I took 3d animation course here in denmark, and ended up doing some pretty descent stuff at times, not sure i have any of it anymore! But alas there were no career opotunities with 3d at the time, so i took another path. I still think of getting into the games buisness, but id have to start in the IT-support, and i would like to do some work on game stories, and some basic modelling!

But it' ll probably just be a dream :P

Can u do walk cycles
if you can can you make a
halo walk cycle
with a green master cheif chasing a pink spartan

mis-post

I took 3d animation course here in denmark, and ended up doing some pretty descent stuff at times, not sure i have any of it anymore! But alas there were no career opotunities with 3d at the time, so i took another path. I still think of getting into the games buisness, but id have to start in the IT-support, and i would like to do some work on game stories, and some basic modelling!

But it' ll probably just be a dream :P

I still think you should just chase it, no matter what. Youwon' t know until you have
actually visited the " belly of the beast"

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

$#!t i' d love to get into the games industry! It would be my ideal job.

I would love to be a games designer. Thats really what i want to do, but i also want to get some programing under my belt. Unfortunately i' ll start late, having spent my early Uni years doing Psychology (which i flucked out of) instead of going into computers.

I have many ideas for stories characters and character development. I' ve been developing my stories over many years now and have been putting them down on paper. Maybe is should just write a book, which might become a movie and eventually if its good enough become a game (well thats sort of the plan).

I haven' t done any programming yet (i plan to to go to college though), and i' m artisitically challenged (in other words i suck), but IMHO i can create good stories and concepts that could translate well into games. I just need some motivation and the right direction. I' ll admit i feel a little overwhelmed about what is required to get into the industry, and my chances (slim apparently), but that still does not change the fact that being a games designer is my dream job. Thanks to all the great info (especially you Majik) i have a better understanding of what to expect now.

I don' t know if tis site has been mentioned but
http://www.conceptart.org
is a very cool community site for concept artist. Several famous concept artists are members there. My favourite Andrew Jones (Metroid Prime) is one course. I believe he is a co-founder too.

Where does middleware factor into this?


Actually (sort of an afterthought) wouldnt middleware be a good place for some $$$? You know design one badass product license it out to big name companies and then sitback and watch the money come in. Over time update it and continue licensing it out. Then, hell, once you got the money flowing you could easily start up you own development company. While oter companies our tooling around with your licensed product you create somthing entirely new for your company. This makes people go wow look they got somthing totally unique! So they start buying up your game. Soon youve got a good rep and thats when you begin producing games! Muahahahahahaa!

One small arm works in updating the middleware.
Another cranks out the inhouse games.
And the person in charge starts over seeing oter games to produce and gain from!

If only it were that easy eh?