do u think the dreamcast would have a had a chance if it would of came out later then the ps1

i think like they said on g4tech tv it wood have had a chance but it came out way before its time so i think they should come out with a dreamcast neo or dreamcast 2

I was about to tell you that this thread is about half a decade late, but you actually got me thinking.

Now that we' ve seen the generation of gaming that the Dreamcast birthed, would any strategy have saved the console for SEGA? What would have had to happen for the Dreamcast to stay alive?

Was pulling out early Sega' s best decision ever, or it' s worst?

I don' t even have an answer yet...need to collect my thoughts.

ny dude i think they really should come out with a new dreamcast i promise on everything i love win i become famous im going to rebirth sega

The Dreamcast DID come out later than the PS1. Much later.

If it came out later than it did then it probably would have had to compete with the PS2, GameCube, and Xbox on DAY 1, meaning that it would have stood even LESS of a chance,

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

This is something about the dreamcast, so i have to say something.

The dreamcast was, and still is a great machine, i did and still have more fun with my dreamcast then any other system.

But alas, the dreamcast had an uphill battle.

Sony had an unlimited supply of money, and bullshit.

Nintendo had it' s clinicaly insane fanbase.

And then microsoft wanted to jump in the ring.
There was just no way for sega to make money.

Now, was going out of the hardware buisness the right idea? No!

But making games for other platforms was a good idea.

If i were sega, i would continue making games for these inferior systems, and secretly plan my next console, make it powerful and make it cheap.

Then come back into the console buisness and have a stunned market ready to buy.

Like an urban legend, it will be on everyone' s mind, and only a lucky few will see it running.


...But i' ve said too much.

Sega did everything right with DC - it was a perfect system for me - it failed because PS brand is too big and they know how to hype things.It couldn' t have done better - some of it' s games are unrivalled today ,so it' s hard to believe that later timing would change that.

It wasn' t quite perfect for me. I was expecting a string of awesomely arcade perfect Model 3 ports, and that' s what SSM at the time had hinted at. But alas no Daytona 2, SpikeOut, Lost World, Scud Race, and only the TB version of VF3.

In this respect the Dreamcast let me down, but all the new games more than made it a system that I loved. Sega' s innovative period brought back a sense of magic resembling the MegaDrive era. Something I had missed since they went arcade crazy (still loved that also though).

The PS2 would eventually almost live up to the DC, as it had some of the most solid arcade games ever from Sega and Namco. But at the end of the day the DC failed because of Sega' s poor marketing attempts in the UK and due to Sony' s overpowering hype. Ultimately they didn' t have the kind of money Nintendo do to sustain two hardware defeats, if you can even call the DC one.

it failed because PS brand is too big and they know how to hype things.It couldn' t have done better - some of it' s games are unrivalled today ,so it' s hard to believe that later timing would change that.

it failed because there was no big support from 3rd parties developers and Arcade only would never ever make a console very successful, it' ll crash and hat' s what happened with the dreamcast, sony was not born with all the hyper and he huge fanbase they fucking build it since PSone and continued through PS2...

oh you can say that if it wasn' t for the ujnlimited supply of money , sega would win and got these developers but that' s not he reality, whatever the means that made sony to the TOP (aka money), that' s what made the difference and thus sony is better than sega.

The dreamcast came out too late, had i a time machine and the blueprints for both the dreamcast, and what both nintendo, that other guys..I would have shown up on day one of the saturn inception.

I would also assume that because i have the time machine, i would be a very wealthy man, and would fund it for my own profit.


The dreamcast was everything right in the industry, and was the last great console before the industry started thinging about one-upping the market.

The last true gaming platform.

I hate the Dreamcast controller...
The analog stick was slippery and the d-pad is the worst ever, tied with Sony' s d-pad.
The L/R triggers felt wrong. Nice that they were the first to have analog triggers though.
The round shape forced you to hold the controller really weird.
No second analog stick.
No built in rumble.
Big startbutton that felt like it needed a buddy, like a selectbutton or similar.

I think the Dual Shock 2 was one of the reasons why the PS2 was more appealing than the Dreamcast.
Sega going from black to white was a mistake. They should' ve made a black console.
The lack of DVD-playback with the Dreamcast probably made some people prefer the PS2.
You could place the PS2 vertically. I know it sounds stupid but I thought that was ultra cool.

meh, i think that if Sega had waited a little, as opposed to getting the DC out early, they could have at least thinned out the market, and maybe prevented sony from getting a total stranglehold on the market. Because if you think about it, even if there was that ten percent of difference in sony' s market control, that could seriously shake them, and maybe slap them out of this cocky stupor they' ve been in for the last six years.

Some... never mind

I ....

How can people put all the blame on Sony for the Dreamcast failing/dying???? lol..
I know two other companies that helped cement the death of the Dreamcast and their names are Microsoft and Nintendo..

The PlayStation brand, as big as it is, is still ONE brand. Sega has proven that they can compete with a juggernaut when they beat Nintendo at their own game during the 16-bit era. Had the PlayStation 2 been the ONLY competitor on the market then Sega could have definitely hung around and tried to compete. But the PS2 wasn' t the only one, and the market became overcrowded with consoles. Something had to give, and given that Sega wasn' t able to build a considerable hardware lead before the competition arrived due to the Dreamcast failing in Japan and Europe (its only true success was in the U.S.) they had no other real choice but to bow out gracefully.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

The last true gaming platform.

Amen :)

Wii could change this since DS brought that feeling to me lately...

Abasoufiane - PS2 sold well because PSX was a great system - PS2 started to be good 3 years from launch so what you say is bullshit that might only explain how Saturn lost to Sony but not DC.With DC people had bad feelings for SEGA after Saturn plus they had enormous Hype for PS2 served on daily basis.

The PlayStation brand, as big as it is, is still ONE brand

Maybe , but PS2 is a good lesson on how big it is.Even Sony Execs said lately that they can launch PS3 with no games and it will sell out in a week.They are completely right.

let' s do just a quick ps2 vs dreamcast

ps2 controler vs Dc controler 1 - 0
ps2 3rd party support vs DC 3rd party support 1- 0
Ps2 features vs DC features 1 - 0
ps2 power vs DC power 1 - 0
# of AAA ps2 titles vs # of AAA dc titles 1 - 0

NO GOOD SOCCER GAME in DC !!! ( virtua striker [:' (] )
extremly few RPG' s
Extremly FEW FPS (none?)
Sega abandoned dreamcast in its middle life
a lot of big franchises from the 32 bit era and 16 bit era are absent.

after sega died i gave my DC for PSone to play all the great titles i missed!!

if you still think that dreamcast is the best console ever, congratulation you are the new generation sega fanboy, pass the torch !!

Abasoufiane - PS2 sold well because PSX was a great system - PS2 started to be good 3 years from launch

ps2 sold well because psone was a great system ... aaaaaaaaannnd what ?? what kind of sily argument is that ?? xbox360 is doing fine in the us because the first xbox did fine over there , doesn' t mean that xbox360 doesn' t deserve its success , people bough PS2 because they were so sure their favorite franchises will run on it simple !!!

PS2 started to be good after its first year (the first ps2 year was truly scary and sometimes ridiculous) but very games started to come out, ico, jax and dexter, devil may cry, gran turismo 3 .... saying 3 years is a joke gangsta and oyu just bought a ps2 (maximum a year ago) as far as i remember right ??

I agree with some things you said but not everything.

ORIGINAL: Abasoufiane
ps2 3rd party support vs DC 3rd party support 1- 0

The PS2 didn' t have much better 3rd party support in its early days so that can' t explain why the PS3 was more popular than the DC that fast.

Ps2 features vs DC features 1 - 0

The PS2 had its DVD-player but that' s all.
The Dreamcast had the first unified online service, visual memory cards, four controller slots, 60hz option and more.

ps2 power vs DC power 1 - 0

The PS2 was more powerful but the titles that were released for both platforms always looked better on the DC. DoA2 is a perfect example of that.

# of AAA ps2 titles vs # of AAA dc titles 1 - 0

Since the Dreamcast was forsaken pretty quickly it never had a chance to get a big AAA library.
The PS2 had a pretty slow start but since it has been around for ages it' s not strange that it now has a big AAA library.

NO GOOD SOCCER GAME in DC !!! ( virtua striker [:' (] )

Ok... like I give a damn.

extremly few RPG' s

Not quite true but Shenmue walks over every RPG anyway!

Extremly FEW FPS (none?)

Oh and I suppose PS2 has? Dreamcast had a perfect version of Quake 3 Arena, a game that' s better than any FPS on PS2. And the wave of good console FPS games came late in the PS2 generation.

Sega abandoned dreamcast in its middle life

Sony would' ve to if they' d had the same results. It was a wise bussiness decision.

a lot of big franchises from the 32 bit era and 16 bit era are absent.

Most of Segas franchises were there. 3rd party companies were bought by Sony. The money choose the PS2, not the quality.

if you still think that dreamcast is the best console ever, congratulation you are the new generation sega fanboy, pass the torch !!

Despite some flaws and mistakes from Sega' s side its very easy to understand why the DC is concidered the best console ever by some people. Those mistakes never affected the great games and the cool ideas that came with the system.

people bough PS2 because they were so sure their favorite franchises will run on it simple !!!

Exactly, the PS2 wasn' t a good machine but people bought it anyway because they knew Sony had companies like Square on their side.

PS2 started to be good after its first year (the first ps2 year was truly scary and sometimes ridiculous) but very games started to come out, ico, jax and dexter, devil may cry, gran turismo 3 .... saying 3 years is a joke gangsta and oyu just bought a ps2 (maximum a year ago) as far as i remember right ??

Yeah but the DC was released before the PS2 so it had lots of great AAA titles and more coming when the PS2 was released. Still people chose the PS2.
Why? Because Sony had bought all the good 3rd party developers. The console itself wasn' t much.

Sony fans were waiting for the PS2 and Nintendo fans were waiting for the Gamecube.
The failed Saturn made non-fans feel insecure about Sega so even though the Dreamcast was good they still remembered the Saturn.
The Sega fans weren' t enough to save the DC.

If it weren' t for the bigger amount of titles on the PS2 I would' ve easily put the DC over the PS2 in my top 10 console list.

Original by: ginjirou

Original by: the other dude
extremly few RPG' s

Not quite true but Shenmue walks over every RPG anyway!

WHOA, duuude!

Well it' s true.

Original by: the other dude
ps2 controler vs Dc controler 1 - 0

I really like the Ps2 controller as well, but the DC controller is imo possibly the best ever (even if it lacks compatibility with FPS games). But if you feel otherwise, that' s OK with me.

Original by: the other dude
ps2 power vs DC power 1 - 0

Ps2 came later. That' s like comparing the power of Xbox with the power of the Ps2.

We all know that Gamespot is a big SONY gamesite,but lets be honest kikizo staff and members are clearly pro SEGA.
Their dream is that SEGA start making consoles again :P

My dream,is to see them as first party dev for Xbox360 :)

And btw Shenmue1&2 is clearly some of the best games ever done however i never liked Dreamcast,i fall in love with SONIC for DC and SHENMUE,and well grandia2,but nothing more.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

i' m sure that either me or you are total lunatic...

let' s just be precise, are u talking about dreamcast vs first year ps2 ?? or dreamcast vs ps2 simple ?,

if it' s the first i would definitly agree, dreamcast was beter than ps2, but after that ps2 picked up result DC ====> dead

i don' t care if it' s sony' s fucking money, or hyping or just name it, the thing is very good games were and are on ps2 today, coparing the whole console life to DC life is pure bullshit.

Not quite true but Shenmue walks over every RPG anyway!

i swear i wonder sometimes if soem people are on crack here when they write stuff on this forum.

first of all shenmue is not a RPG it' s an advenure game, we know what' s RPG is, at least we gamers know what rpg is, you can argue with me but that' s your problem.

please, when you talk about rpg' s, be sure to mention skies of arcadia or at least grandia 2 which are the best rpg' s i can consider on that console , any otehr rpg on dreamcast is CRAP.

shenmue 2 is not a masterpiece , may be for you but for teh industry hell no, that game got so many fluctuations in its score, many poeple loved it, many people thought it' s average, and some even thought it was boring... we conclude then that it' s not an AAA

hey nobody can say Gran turismo 3 is a bad racing game
nobody can say that devil may cry is a bad action game
nobody can say final fantasy 7 is a bad rpg
nobody can say that virtua fighter is a bad fighting game
nobody say mario 64 is a bad platform game
and nobody would say golden eye or half life 2 is a bad fps

my point is , when there are so many people calling a game boring, bad gameplay , repettive, even if the otehr half think otehrwise, you can' t name that game anymore a masterpiece may be to you , but not to the industry? are we cool?

back to teh subject , ps2 has so many great and much beter rpg' s than DC ever had, i don' t fucking care if some of those games were realsed on the 3rd year or 4th year or second , we' re comparing both consoles in gneral.

The PS2 had its DVD-player but that' s all.
The Dreamcast had the first unified online service, visual memory cards, four controller slots, 60hz option and more.

the ps2 dvd feature is for the market much more important than a stupiud visual memory (yah it' s cool and what ??) and the 4 slots
Dc online didn' t work well , it was too early for this, only very very few games took advantage of it anyway.
almost all recent games (since 2 years ago) give the option of 60 hz, and that problem is only for pal territory anyway ( but not anymore)

quote:

NO GOOD SOCCER GAME in DC !!! ( virtua striker )

Ok... like I give a damn.

see you' re talking about yourself , so next time say DC is the best console ever FOR ME and THE FEW LIKE ME you might add :)
many people including me are interested in soccer game , and the abscence in DC was lethal...

Most of Segas franchises were there. 3rd party companies were bought by Sony. The money choose the PS2, not the quality.

like what ?? euuh sonic 1 which was hmm good the others sucked, then what ecco ? virtua fighter ?

let' s talk about sega 16bit that didn' t make it to teh dreamcast

i wanted shinobie
outrun
street of rage
golden axe
legend of thor
comix zone

let' s talk about the 32 bit era

panzer dragon
castlevania
metal gear
......... infinity that didn' t make it to DC which was a huuuuge disapointement since it was supposed to be a next generation , most of us expected to see these franchises on DC , it never happened even after 3 years

ps2 gamepad is better than DC pad... ginjirou what i really feel about your post is that you just want to contradict me hat' s all , specialy when you pointed out each and every comment of mine , man at least there should be some truth there , what i' m THAT stupid !!!

oh man enough already !! i' m sick this is rediculous comparing ps2 to DC is ridiculous

Ok you are being very provocative here but I' ll try to stay calm

let' s just be precise, are u talking about dreamcast vs first year ps2 ?? or dreamcast vs ps2 simple ?,

if it' s the first i would definitly agree, dreamcast was beter than ps2, but after that ps2 picked up result DC ====> dead

I' m talking about the time where DC and PS2 were sold at the same time which of course mainly is the first year of the PS2. Despite the lack of good titles on the PS2 and the amount of good titles on the DC the PS2 still sold better. Simply because the usuall Sony hype, their fanboys and the expected coming 3rd party titles.

i don' t care if it' s sony' s fucking money, or hyping or just name it, the thing is very good games were and are on ps2 today, coparing the whole console life to DC life is pure bullshit.

Well that means that Sony sucks since they don' t make good consoles, unlike the other companies that makes good ones.
Comparing the whole console life with the DC is very important since that explains why the PS2 has got more AAA titles. It' s pretty obvious that the PS2 has more AAA titles than the DC since it was " alive" more than twice as long. And that explains why the PS2 has got more AAA titles than the GC or the Xbox. It' s simply been around longer. It still sucks as a console.

first of all shenmue is not a RPG it' s an advenure game, we know what' s RPG is, at least we gamers know what rpg is, you can argue with me but that' s your problem.

I never meant that Shenmue was an RPG (it doesn' t really belong to any other genre than its own) but I still think it' s better than any RPG.

shenmue 2 is not a masterpiece , may be for you but for teh industry hell no, that game got so many fluctuations in its score, many poeple loved it, many people thought it' s average, and some even thought it was boring... we conclude then that it' s not an AAA

Shenmue 2 was concidered by many to be better than the first game and the first game mostly got top reviews. It' s an AAA title but as with everything in the world you can' t satisfy everyone. At least Shenmue was groundbreaking unlike all the RPG titles for the PS2.

hey nobody can say Gran turismo 3 is a bad racing game
nobody can say that devil may cry is a bad action game
nobody can say final fantasy 7 is a bad rpg
nobody can say that virtua fighter is a bad fighting game
nobody say mario 64 is a bad platform game
and nobody would say golden eye or half life 2 is a bad fps

Actually, you can and lots of people do.

my point is , when there are so many people calling a game boring, bad gameplay , repettive, even if the otehr half think otehrwise, you can' t name that game anymore a masterpiece may be to you , but not to the industry? are we cool?

I suppose you only hang out with Sony fanboys so I guess it' s understandable that you think people feel that way. Pretty much everyone admits that Shenmue was a groundbreaking title. The industry loved the game. The Sony fanboys didn' t and they are many.

back to teh subject , ps2 has so many great and much beter rpg' s than DC ever had, i don' t fucking care if some of those games were realsed on the 3rd year or 4th year or second , we' re comparing both consoles in gneral.

So you' re putting all the focus on RPG' s...ok.
The DC would' ve gotten great RPG' s to if it had been around longer, as the PS2. So the Dc doesn' t suck, it simply weren' t around long enough.
And you' re stupid if you don' t understand why we are comparing the first years. You really are. Stupid. I usually don' t mean that word but in this case I really mean it.

like what ?? euuh sonic 1 which was hmm good the others sucked, then what ecco ? virtua fighter ?

You don' t know what you' re talking about do you? Have you ever owned, played or even seen a Dreamcast?
Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, Virtua Tennis, House of the Dead, Shenmue, Virtua Cop, Ecco, Daytona, Crazy Taxi, Headhunter, Sonic Adventure are just some examples. Those are more than Sony has ever had.

ginjirou what i really feel about your post is that you just want to contradict me hat' s all , specialy when you pointed out each and every comment of mine

Well since i disagree with you it would be most natural to answer all your arguments with my own, don' t you think?

oh man enough already !! i' m sick this is rediculous comparing ps2 to DC is ridiculous

Actually it' s not since the DC was a good console that failed and the PS2 was a bad console that succeeded. It is a very interesting discussion but I understand that a fanboy like you are having a hard time seeing your favourite console getting criticised with good arguments.

Shenmue and ???? Thats basically the only strong rpg on it at all.

Quake 3? Unreal tournament is way better.

People were surprised that Square took sides with Sony after a tech demo for FF6 for Nintendo' s new system.

You shouldn' t give a damn about Soccer games, they are one of the leading biggest hits in the market.

PS2 had 60 hz support, just not with color by the SCART that came with.

-

The ps2 dvd feature made me never buy a dvd player on the side, for that function I am thankful

The DC lacked games in many genres. I have it myself, and atleast here I was never able to get any tempting strong titles. I missed a great platformer, I missed a great modern fighting game, I missed a more true RPG than Shenmue was.

Quake 3? Unreal tournament is way better.

Oh please, are you joking?

The DC lacked games in many genres. I have it myself, and atleast here I was never able to get any tempting strong titles. I missed a great platformer, I missed a great modern fighting game, I missed a more true RPG than Shenmue was.

Once again, you never seem to get the point, the PS2 also lacked lots of genres and great titles but as I' ve said the PS2 has been around longer so now at the year of 2006, several years after the DC died, the PS2 does have most genres covered. If you don' t get the point now I' ll just give up trying to explain it to you.

wait a minute,unreal 2007 or quake 4?

Ofc soon comes wolfenstein,heck ... i love RTCW mp more then any other pc fps online game.

AND YES I KNOW THE NEW WOLFENSTEIN IS COMING FOR 360.
But the pc version for RTCW and the add on with ahum..forgot the name was just kick ass,i never tried the xbox version of RTCW,so cant judge it.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Once again, you never seem to get the point, the PS2 also lacked lots of genres and great titles but as I' ve said the PS2 has been around longer so now at the year of 2006, several years after the DC died, the PS2 does have most genres covered. If you don' t get the point now I' ll just give up trying to explain it to you

we don' t care about that, if ps2 has been longer or not , the truth is since ps2 has much much much interstin games than dreamcast, therefore it is a better console , this was the point of the discution...

i onwed a dreamcast and i played all AA and AAA tiles and soem crap games (like spawn or blue stinger) so please that console i knew it by heart and i had access to every single game, and see man that' s what might make the difference between us , dc library was poor.

don' t call me sony fanboy , hell no boy

Virtua Fighter, arcade
Sega Rally, aracde
Virtua Tennis, arcade
House of the Dead, arcade
Shenmue, no comment (oh i didn' t wanna talk about shenmue 2 but shenmue 1, i don' t know how i ended up putting that 2, and yes i know shenmue 2 was better than shenmue 1)
Virtua Cop, acrade
Ecco, good game by critics but i didn' t like it (i loved the graphics)
Daytona, aracde
Crazy Taxi, acrade
Headhunter, average game


did you notice something?? man as of that list i mentioned , i was talking about the games they were coming from the 16 bit era like shinobie taht didn' t make it to dreamcast ..

Actually, you can and lots of people do.

by people i mean , not the stupid ***s, i mean hardcore gamers, hell just gamers or critics.... 99% of critics thought devil may cry 1 was excellent, that percentage was not true about shenmue.

I also like the Onimusha series, I' ve always seen the devil may cry/onimusha as a paradox series, i went for Onimusha and became a fan instantly, loving the games more and more.

Wouldn' t a place like 1-up.com be better suited to sony fans?

Because this place may not agree with you.

whiteguysamurai , you can start talking about fanboys when you first take off sega' s logo from your avatar

we don' t care about that, if ps2 has been longer or not , the truth is since ps2 has much much much interstin games than dreamcast, therefore it is a better console , this was the point of the discution...

No the point of this discussion has become that the Dreamcast is better than the PS2 because the PS2 as hardware is a piece of crap but the software for it is great. Now do you get it?

dc library was poor.

As I said, it was never given the time the PS2 had to gain lots of AAA titles.

arcade

Something wrong with arcadegames? Most gamers love arcade games and they are very suitable for casual gamers. Except Virtua Fighter.

Headhunter, average game

No the reviews rated it high.

did you notice something?? man as of that list i mentioned , i was talking about the games they were coming from the 16 bit era like shinobie taht didn' t make it to dreamcast ..

*sigh* If the Dreamcast would' ve been around longer it would' ve had titles such as Shinobi and Panzer Dragoon. But the PS2 had so many 3rd party companies and lots of hype and there were fans who waited for Nintendo' s console so the Dreamcast didn' t last long enough.

by people i mean , not the stupid ***s, i mean hardcore gamers, hell just gamers or critics.... 99% of critics thought devil may cry 1 was excellent, that percentage was not true about shenmue.

Devil May Cry: http://ps2.ign.com/objects/015/015620.aspx
Shenmue: http://dreamcast.ign.com/objects/014/014499.aspx

See the average scores they' ve got? Pretty much the same. Take close look at the press score. An average press score of 9.1 which says it' s an AAA title.
Besides, Shenmue was groundbreaking and something new which is very risky and with such a project you can' t expect everyone to like it. Most people who likes Shenmue are TRUE hardcore gamers. It was the casual gamers who wanted something fast and cool who couldn' t stand it. Devil May Cry was just a stylish action game that was destined to be loved by the casual gamers.

Wouldn' t a place like 1-up.com be better suited to sony fans?

Because this place may not agree with you.

This place would be pretty boring with only a bunch of Sega fans.

No the point of this discussion has become that the Dreamcast is better than the PS2 because the PS2 as hardware is a piece of crap but the software for it is great. Now do you get it?

Ginjirou that was not my point, when you say dreamcast is the best console ever , you don' t talk about the hardware of course , you talk about the console in general, if you had say that dreamcst is a better hardware than ps2, i wouldn' t agree but still i wouldn' t argue that much ...

Never seen DC have better ingame graphics than Onimusha or Tekken tag, 4 or 5.

Never seen DC have better ingame graphics than Onimusha or Tekken tag, 4 or 5.

*sigh*

You want friggin amazing Dreamcast graphics? Ecco the Dolphin.. The only current-generation game that managed to impress me a little after Ecco was Resident Evil 4 for the GameCube, and after that it was Monster Hunter Portable for the PSP.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Never seen DC have better ingame graphics than Onimusha or Tekken tag, 4 or 5.

Cetra please give good exemple cus tekken tag sucks and DOA 2 on dc is much better graphicaly...
so you might mention shadow of the colossus , resident evil 4, god of war or metal gear solid .... but i might know what would ginjirous like say , Dreamcast didn' t have a chance like ps2 and if it lived longer you might see the same graphics or even better... the truth is it didn' t but according to them and if it lived longer it would if it could, i mean they really know that and thus dreamcast is a better hardware than ps2... ps2 is just shit shit shit crap.

You want friggin amazing Dreamcast graphics? Ecco the Dolphin..

teryy i agree with you, ecco was sooo impressive, i loved the graphics and specialy water effects i would love to swim there but the game as a whole didn' t appeal to me , cus at that time i had so many other games on DC ... months later i have seen another jet ski game on the ps2 , which had a beter water effetcs it was more impresive than ecco, i forgot its name now... there was even a sequel ...

In my example which you quoted I mentioned Onimusha. Take Onimusha 3 or 4, no DC game has better graphics, neither does DOA2 than tekken 5

teryy i agree with you, ecco was sooo impressive, i loved the graphics and specialy water effects i would love to swim there but the game as a whole didn' t appeal to me , cus at that time i had so many other games on DC ... months later i have seen another jet ski game on the ps2 , which had a beter water effetcs it was more impresive than ecco, i forgot its name now... there was even a sequel ...

It wasn' t just the water effects of Ecco that impressed me --- I' d imagine that the Jet Ski game focused more on the upper portions of the water --- it was the entire undersea atmosphere of Ecco, I found it totally immersive. It was like watching a Jacques Cousteu BBC broadcast of undersea life.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

LOLL people you all suck,Tales of symphonia to GC > ALL.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

When I said that games looked better on the Dreamcast I meant that they looked cleaner. Ofc the graphics on the PS2 were better since the Dreamcast was released some time before the PS2. As someone said, it' s like comparing the PS2 graphics with the Xbox graphics which honestly would be pretty stupid.
Anyway, I think Shenmue is a very good example of how nice a DC game could look and you should also look at the textures in Sonic Adventure as well as the smooth framerate in Quake 3 Arena. The DC version of DoA2 looked much cleaner than the PS2 version.
The PS2 didn' t suck, I overexaggerated, but compared to the Dreamcast it wasn' t much better, if any. It was not good enough to be so much more popular than the Dreamcast anyway. What made the PS2 was the hype and software from companies like Square and others who supported the PS1.

Tales of Symphonia for the GC was really good yeah! But I don' t get the problems with the focus in that game!!! Some things got blurred in some scenes which made it look really ugly.

But we can all agree on that ToS was one of the best game this gen,yes?

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.