heavenly sword is jagtastic!

well you can read the kikizo scoop on it and look at the screen shots. The graphics look pretty good except for all the blatant jaggy outlines!

Perhaps I should await judgement until finished games are out and I see them for myself but as of now PS3 graphics are CLEARLY INFERIOR to xbox 360 graphics.


p.s. I hate sony

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

To be fair, 360' s Too Human is pretty jaggy as well (and that Balder has the pouty lips of a trans Lara Croft) according to the screenshots taken by EGM' s hands-on review of it.

I' ll give it the benefit of the doubt for now, till we get the real deal and the comparison wars between PS3 and 360 begin.

All xbox 360 games are forced to use 2X AA and as far as I can tell they have all used 4X AA. I haven' t seen the screen shots you are talking about but I' ve seen videos for it and didn' t see any jaggies. With 4X you really don' t see any jaggies. Every single xbox 360 game and demo I' ve played have not had any jaggies and I doubt any will ever.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

p.s. I hate sony

hehe.. Like the subtle approach..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

The 360 has outstandning AA in their titles but most good looking 360 titles we' ve seen are finished games or second generation titles. Heavenly sword is an unfinished first generation title for the PS3 so I wouldn' t expect much from it. Comparing it to second generation 360 titles is very unfair. Compared to first generation 360 titles I think it looks amazing.

It' s the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, the one with Balder and Too Human on the front cover. I can' t find any of the pics online, so I might scan my own copy later.

Mmmmmm 360' s 10Mb eDRAM is there for a reason. No jaggies present sir!

The game looks good to me! It does need some aa love, though. And I wonder why someone would copy God of War' s control scheme? It' s not like that game was good, or something.

And why, oh why, does the Kikizo article say it' s being developed by Team Ninja? I got my hopes REAL HIGH there for a minute! Still, it does look promising.

Regular readers of Edge magazine will already be familiar with the hardships Team Ninja has gone through with its first PlayStation 3 game, Heavenly Sword

Should be ' Ninja Theory'

Team Ninja????

How dareth thee cast unholy sayings on thou company that broughteth
us Ninja Gaiden.

Burn em' .

I can see why every1 is pointing out the jaggies, but that is only because
of the amount of things Sony promised. You would notice with the 360,
no-one complained because we knew they were on Alpha kits. They told us
what we are getting, but not we WILL be getting and then falling flat.

So you can see why everyone is quick to point out when SOny under delivers..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

The game itself looks great and so far we' ve only seen cams of the demonstrations. I don' t think there' s any direct feed gameplay footage of it yet and so both the framerate and things like texture quality are more difficult to judge.

The stills look impressive, and there are some jaggies present, but that' s to be expected from 1st generation PS3 titles. I said months ago that if developers push for 4x AA like in 360 games then the 256Mb available to RSX would take a big hit because it would require more than the 10Mb 360 uses as the eDRAM Microsoft' s console has is super fast and has been put in specifically to deal with AA.

My guess is that Sony have been directly helping Ninja Theory as far as getting the E3 demo ready goes. I' d even go as far as to say i suspect that code from God of War 2 was also being used in this title.

I like the combat setup and the fact that you can change the fighting style on the fly, even mid-move. It looks satisfying to say the least.

Hopefully the developer will find a way around the noticable jaggies in the months left before it' s release (remember it won' t be making launch). If the final game ends up being as good as the demonstration looks and has some real depth then it will likely be the first must-have PS3 game.

Her hair is cool.

Yes this is one of my biggest ? regarding PS3. The RSX (as far as SONY' s provided information goes) looks very much like the 7800GTX/G70 processor. SONY hasn' t announced any type of buildt in high bandwidth framebuffer or the likes.
Once the 4x AA kicks in how the hell does SONY expect the RSX to keep up with the 360s counterpart? 4x AA won' t exactly be friendly towards the (little) bandwidth the RSX has. Accoarding to the PS3 specs the RSX has less bandwidth than the 7800GTX regarding video bandwidth. I run two of those cards in my PC and highly overclocked, each of them sporting more video memory bandwidth than the single RSX in PS3. In newer games sporting all the new effects HDR included these TWO cards are struggling to keep up at 1080p with 4x AA turned on. Lowering or raising nothing more than the video memory bandwidth in such occations has a direct impact on how well the games perform.
And SONY was even talking about playing games in 1080p x2(!) on PS3. What type of games did they have in mind? Very wide versions of tetris? Or how about a very wide type of chess game? But a game having high quality textures, effects etc. using full scene AA at 1080p... times two?? Well I guess SONY has finaly figured that one out themselfs since the second HDMI has now been officially removed (the given reason being " we couldn' t figure out a way to split the framebuffer into two HDMI connectors" . Yea that would probably be pure rocket science).

And what happens once the Cell starts throwing a very large number of objects on the RSX needing to be rendered in " movie quality graphics" as SONY usually puts it? Even some developers have claimed the RSX has problems keeping up with the 360 once all the filters are up and running because of the 360s " efficient graphics arcitechture" .
I sure hope they have something up their sleeves but I have a hard time figuring this one out. Any initial calculation or evaluation makes the RSX seem like it will eventually choke. Early games sertainly haven' t proved things to be otherwise as of yet. Hope they prove us wrong though.

I don' t think there' s any direct feed gameplay footage of it yet and so both the framerate and things like texture quality are more difficult to judge.

There are gameplay movies from 1up and ign - that game has been playable at E3 so it' s obvious.

It looks good and what that poor guy was saying is that unfinished games can have jaggies even on 360 (Too Human for instance) so it' s hard to judge it based on such early version.I think at 720p those jaggies won' t be like PS2 jaggies.

Team Ninja? I wonder how they interview people before hiring them :)

Anyway most of the hands-on impression say " good looking , mediocre gameplay"

he RSX (as far as SONY' s provided information goes) looks very much like the 7800GTX/G70 processor.

Can we just comment on a game without making it about processing power...

Numbers hurt, but graphics don' t..

I' m gonna vomit bar codes if this continues..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

Team Ninja? I wonder how they interview people before hiring them

Their whole front garden is filled with burning coal, and you have to pass that
without breaking a sweat.

Next you come up to a Hayabusa-meter and you have to shout louder than
him.

Next when you get into the foyer of their HQ a purple haired girl greets you with
folded leather...

You then have to fit into Hayabusa' s costume.

Then you have to outstare Tomonobu Itagaki..

Then you get the job..

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

There are gameplay movies from 1up and ign - that game has been playable at E3 so it' s obvious

Direct-feed doesn' t mean somebody playing it and it being filmed. Direct-feed would be captured by hardware hooked up to the machine the thing is running on and would only be made available by the developers themselves.

How can you complain about jaggies when you have:

MotorStorm in-game..





Goddamn! Look at those mud effects..

Don' t diss PS3 when you have those graphics my friend!

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

It looks like the xbox version of prince of persia :The sands of time.
I would say some of the later games, but those versions beat the pants off this..

I woud like to point out I wasn' t dissing PS3' s grahpics but defending it cos early builds of games are subject to jaggy-ness (or the opposite if they' re pre-rendered =/) That' s why I was comparing it to Too Human' s demo in EGM (which looks worse IMO, or maybe cos it was a really big close-up)

It looks like the xbox version of prince of persia :The sands of time. I would say some of the later games, but those versions beat the pants off this..

You' re kidding?

While it fails to surpass most of what' s on 360 (ports notwithstanding) -- it' s visually superior to any Xbox game and the control method looks to be instantly accessible.

The game doesn' t just take place in small arenas like the ones from the demo, -- there will be large open environments, hopefully more detailed than those in N3, and while N3' s playable characters are FAR more detailed than in Heavenly Sword, it' s environments are lacking.

The PoP games suck. The first one was stylish, the second was retarded and the third is borderline awful. God of War was cool but i don' t rate it as highly as some do -- i' m a Ninja Gaiden and Otogi kind of guy!

The PoP games suck

God of War was cool but i don' t rate it as highly as some do

I hate you.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I woud like to point out I wasn' t dissing PS3' s grahpics but defending it cos early builds of games are subject to jaggy-ness (or the opposite if they' re pre-rendered =/) That' s why I was comparing it to Too Human' s demo in EGM (which looks worse IMO, or maybe cos it was a really big close-up)

I was joking about dissing the PS3. But check out the Motorstorm screenshots,
clearly we have underestimated CELL....

There are two rules to success:

1. Never tell all you know.

and low resolution photography

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

To be fair, 360' s Too Human is pretty jaggy as well (and that Balder has the pouty lips of a trans Lara Croft) according to the screenshots taken by EGM' s hands-on review of it.

I' ll give it the benefit of the doubt for now, till we get the real deal and the comparison wars between PS3 and 360 begin.

I dont agree at all.

Show me those jaggies.

Back to topic,well its still in alpha coming in 2007.
They probably didnt have 4xAA to make the alpha code run in good frame rate for E3.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Direct-feed doesn' t mean somebody playing it and it being filmed. Direct-feed would be captured by hardware hooked up to the machine the thing is running on and would only be made available by the developers themselves.

I know - it' s just that there are vids from show floor where you see people atually playing this game.

Yeah, and it looks f*cking great!

I dislike cams though. The staff at Kikizo do a superb job encoding their videos, but most cams on other sites are terrible. Compressed into small sizes which greatly degrades the quality of the footage and encoding them as 30fps to keep file sizes down. Sucks!

I download 60 fps ign insider movies some in 720p

ORIGINAL: Utgardaloki

...And SONY was even talking about playing games in 1080p x2(!) on PS3. What type of games did they have in mind? Very wide versions of tetris? Or how about a very wide type of chess game?...

Classic!

Looks like Scott Henson (Director of Microsoft' s Game Technology Group) called it correctly when he said 1080p is basically impossible! We' ll see if Sony can squeeze a game out with such a high resolution. x2!! Gimme a break! How full of shit are those guys? All in an effort to hurt 360 sales! I think they hurt their own credibility more than anything.

Remember look at FEAR to pc.
The dev themself said,run at 1024' 768,its the perfect settings for this game.
What i mean is,even at that it was the best fps i seen so far.

GRAPHIC ENGINE -----> RESOLUTION

dont let 1280' 720 pr 1920' 1080 fool you,graphic engine always win :P

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Actually PS3 will most certainly be capable of displaying games at 1080p and some of the games on the E3 show floor were said to be using it. Its just that it might mean a huge trade off in terms of how much can be put on screen vs. how much could have been put on screen had they opted for 720p.

Content and physics wise the PS3 seems to surpass the 360' s abilities due to the Cell. Cloth physics, hair flow, intricate character animation and the likes will not affect the graphics processor very much since it is affected mainly by the number of pixels that need to be calculated rather than how they behave. And that' s the crux since at 1080p the number of pixels nearly doubles from 720p.
For the 360 they opted for very good and efficient handling of 720p/1080i and gave it the 10MB buffer with added logic to handle things like antialiasing. But because it is so " customised" towards these resolutions it also means it will most certainly be very bad at handling 1080p. Much worse than the PS3. But this trade off seems quite wise. The resolutions the 360 can handle it can do better than PS3 on a pixel per pixel basis. PS3 on the other hand can move all the way up to 1080p but it will handle those just as inefficiently as it does 720p only now it has to produce twice the number of pixels. And consequently twice the number of pixels and bandwidth for antialiasing. Might turn out slow. And thus SONY' s claims of games with scenes of epic proportions having thousands of characters on screen using the latest graphical wizbang for a movie like experience at 1080p seem downright stupid. Hell would it even be possible at 720p?

I thought SONY would announce a processor capable of enormous fillrates and containing some kind of embedded framebuffer but they did neither. So without the antialiasing aid and without the enormous fillrates and without an insane video bandwidth how can they claim it to be so enormously powerfull? In the end the RSX seems to get whooped in all of these cathegories by the 360 regarding the final outcome. Is it simply because it can do 1080p and the 360 can not? If that is all SONY has then they sure don' t have much. The last time I looked the cheapest screens and projectors sporting native 1080p resolution were everyting else than cheap. What is 1080p to brag about seing as just about no one will be capable of viewing their games like that?

And 1080p x2 is just damned funny. What would that have cost? And seing as the most powerfull PCs on the planet start to choke at 3 megapixels in the latest games and SONY had no problem announcing their machine would be capable of pulling off 4 megapixels+ at 60 fps (having a much weaker processor than the above) you just got to love them.

yep you are right the 1080px2 its pointlessssss and sony knows that almost
no one have 2 1080p tvs and that 99 % of the developers will not support it.
its a trick to show how powerfull the ps3.is..
the only advantage i think ps3 will have is on fps ? some added polygs ?
i think the 360 will have better...more.. textures ? we will see........
anyway bring on some good games first

3 megapixels in the latest games and SONY had no problem announcing their machine would be capable of pulling off 4 megapixels+ at 60 fps (having a much weaker processor than the above)

never heard of that 3 megapixels in any benchmark, megapixels of what would you please explain , and i thought that Cell is the most powerful processor out there ....

1280 pixels times 720 pixels = 921600 pixels = 0.921600 megapixels

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

ORIGINAL: Abasoufiane

never heard of that 3 megapixels in any benchmark, megapixels of what would you please explain

In benchmarks people normally refer to resolution. Megapixels are sometimes used in order to point out the difference in detail between different resolutions or to point out the number of framebuffer pixels needed to be filled by the graphics processor in order to create one frame.
On PCs the highest resolution you can run games in right now is 2048x1536 (3,145728 megapixels). SONY claimed 1920x1080 times 2 would be possible on PS3 (2,073600 megapixels x2 = 4,147200 megapixels) at 60 fps.
To put things into perspective: The RSX (most probably) has 24 pixel engines running at 550Mhz which gives a fillrate of 13,2 gigasamples/sec.
Compare that to a PC using two 7900GTX: 15,6 gigasamples x2 = 31,2 gigasamples minus the loss for running in SLI which gives the end result of up to about 25 gigasamples/sec fillrate (an estimate since SLI makes performance shift between different games). Even a fillrate monster like this will start to show signs of smoke once HDR, bumpmaps, normalmaps, 4x AA, 8x anisotropic, trasparent texture AA plus more kick in at 2048x1536 resolution. Even at 1080p this PC has got problems using settings like this. And how ever stupid it might sound SONY has claimed " movie quality graphics" for the PS3. Then these settings are what you need in order to simply begin pulling that off. If a 2000$ PC can' t do it then...

i thought that Cell is the most powerful processor out there ....

Sorry. I wrote processor but I meant graphics processor.
And about Cell being the most powerfull CPU. Cell looks to be the most powerfull CPU conserning things like physics, AI and number of things on screen. As a general purpose CPU on the other hand it looks to be the second weakest of the next gen machines placing itself right above the Wii and below the others. SONY is hoping though that the 7 SPEs will offload the main core in the areas where they are supposed to be very efficient.
The 360 has 3 CPU cores and capable of handling 2 hardware threads each at a time. And they are of the general purpose type. Such cores aren' t very efficient at handling things like physics though. And the more intricate animations, complicated behavior and physics that will start to find their ways into new games the 360' s lead over PS3 conserning general purpose calculations might quickly start to narrow as the 360' s 3 cores will have to dedicate ever more power to things the Cell is most likely better suited for.

So the Cell is very customised towards a certain type of game scene. A game scene that is aimed towards creating a much more movie like type of action rather than the very generic type of action we find in videogames today due to the CPUs' limitations in keeping track of and controling many things at the same time. So for in a scene where most things are supposed to be destructible the 360' s main cores will have to constantly track all destructible things in order to determain whether something is about to change and when ever something does change those cores will have to calculate the physical behavior of it and animate it. On Cell sequential tracking like this can simply be offloaded to an SPE and when ever something happens the SPE will start running the physics sequenses to determain in which direction every bit and piece wil start travelling and with how much force etc. At lest that' s the idea.
The SPEs are mostly designed towards these types of things so while they can' t do much else, in situations like the above they are supposed to be pretty darn powerfull. Take the gas station explosion demo for exemple. That explosion was supposedly not preanimated but rather ran as a pure physics program. In other words that explosion didn' t exist within the PS3 memory. The Cell just created it on the fly accoarding to real laws of physics described by the physics program. If that is true then that is damned impressive. Normal ingame explosions are " stuck" not only conserning the way they look but also regarding the way they behave and the number of ways they can influence their surroundings. Calculations like this can have a huge impact not only on how things will look but rather determain what types of interactivity and consequenses will be possible within a scene. Gameplay could benefit alot from this or at least receive more possibilities if done right.

So the really interesting thing about PS3 for me is the Cell, not the graphics (it just irratates me how SONY keeps claiming the PS3 will blow everything else away graphics wise).
But since Cell is more specialised you probably need more specialised programming to pull that off. That might prove difficult. And the RSX will have to be able to keep up once the Cell starts throwing alot of shite at it.

all right thanks for the info people