Being little more than a button masher myself I wills ay that I enjoy the play of the Soul Calibre series the most. But, that really doesn' t mean too much

Tekken 3!!!!!! that' s my favorite!

followed by the Soul Calibre series.. ah, and back in the day there was Mortal Kombat 3.. that was fun!

Virtua Fighter
King of Fighters
Street fighter
Powerstone

some of the worst efforts of this generation include Tekken 4 - not because it' s a bad game, but because Tag Tournament does the same job at a cheaper price.


Dead or Alive is a shallow but pretty rip off of Virtua Fighter, utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations. I felt like I' d seen everything DOA 3 had to offer in little under a couple of days. VF4 however is another story: it would take a lifetime to fully understand the game, something no other fighting game, or dare I say, no other video game can boast.


I agree that the VF series took a turn for the " trendy" with VF4, but visual and audio flair can' t detract from solid character builds and a game so deep you end up getting swallowed whole by it.

Same applies to King of Fighters - it' s kinda the 2D equivalent to Virtua Fighter, in the sense that the emphasis on gameplay supercedes the outward aesthetic of the game. Still, unlike VF' s competitors, The King of Fighters can sit comfortably at the side of Street Fighter and share the 2D crown. Street Fighter offers an immediancy lacking in KOF, though it ultimately sacrifices a degree of depth to achieve this. This isn' t a flaw with the game, rather a considered and intelligent game mechanic.


The fighting genre has always provided the games industry with plenty to talk about: whether it' s the early 90' s hysteria surrounding Street Fighter or industry revolution that was Virtua Fighter, we owe an awful lot to the fighting genre.

Dead or Alive is a shallow but pretty rip off of Virtua Fighter, utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations.

If you believe that then you have a huge misconception about DOA

FACTS
A) DOA1 originally used VF2' s engine but was the last and only DOA game to have any resemblence to VF.

B) DOA2 brought along a completely new control system, physics system, fighting engine, and the only thing it shares in common with DOA1 are reversals and old characters. The leap between DOA1 and DOA2 is HUGE and should not be underestimated.

C) DOA3 built off the existing DOA2 engine but in no way copied VF. Play the games side by side and you' ll see little in common. One would have to look no further than the vast framerate difference between the two games to see this. (NOTE: Frame as in frame between moves and not frames per second).

DOA3 and SC are perhaps the two smoothest playing 3D fighters on the market. Just about anyone can tell you that for all of VF4' s depth it' s still very stiff and nowhere as smooth as DOA/SC.

D) It' s very easy to string together combos of your own design (assuming you know what you' re doing). Personally if I didn' t think of the combo I don' t use it.

VF4 is deeper than DOA3, but if you' re going to compare games then use facts about both series. DOA2-3 DOES NOT use the same physics engine as VF. DOA2-3 you CAN string together combos of your own design (whether or not they' re " interesting" is up to the gamer).

Dead or Alive is a shallow but pretty rip off of Virtua Fighter, utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations.

Notice no 2 or 3 after Dead or Alive (highlighted in bold, just for you)? Pedantry clearly doesn' t become you. The entire (very small) paragraph was in reference to both series, not specific incarnations - as is this entire thread, fool. And having played both series to death, I can honestly say DOA is still very similar to VF.

Now don' t cry, but here' s how.


Combinations/moves/throws

Tekken didn' t feel the need to mercilessly rip off Virtua Fighter standard PPPK combos, but DOA did and in fact does even to this day. The whole series is riddled with plaigirism of the highest order.


Characters

drunken fighter from DOA3 (don' t really recall his name - crap character) and Shun Di. Bit of a coincidence, no? Ok, I' ll let that one go.


ninja with air-throw (Kage/Hayabusa)...hmmm, see, this one is a little harder to forgive. Oh well, I' m sure nothing else highly derivative and borderline plaigirist will turn up - oh dear...


young chinese martial arts prodigy (Pai/Lei Fang). So even to this day, DOA is taking its cue from VF. Or stealing them, however you want to spin it. You could argue that these types of characters are fighting game staples (you could barely argue that), but given the level with which VF and DOA are already connected, it doesn' t bode well, does it?

VF4 is deeper than DOA3, but if you' re going to compare games then use facts about both series. DOA2-3 DOES NOT use the same physics engine as VF. DOA2-3 you CAN string together combos of your own design (whether or not they' re " interesting" is up to the gamer).

And whether or not they' re interesting was all the paragraph was saying, you blithering idiot - I wasn' t passing it off as fact, as you' re so keen to do. Oh, and whilst you' re at it, take your head out your own arse and drop the condescending tone. Anyone would think you were itching to start an argument. Well guess what? You got one.


You can be as pedantic as you like (though you' ve clearly not anticipated an equally pedantic and pointless reply), but the fact remains that DOA, in whatever incarnation, has its roots in VF - a fact I didn' t go into great detail with because the paragraph was hardly integral to the post. You' ve just picked it out show how knowledgable you are...even if knowledge of DOA is trivial, at best.


I don' t know whether you' re an opportunistic nerd who' s absolutely dying to impart " knowledge" or just genuinely stupid for reading more into one small paragraph than it was even saying. Oh, and for future reference, arguments starting with " anyone can tell you" hold about as much credibility as a Johnny Cochran monologue, and alludes to someone touting opinion as gospel.


On this forum? *GASP* praise be!


I wouldn' t mind so much, but out of my fairly lengthy post you' ve picked the smallest paragraph to exercise your superiority (or given your bizarre and passionate love for DOA, perhaps inferiority?) complex and boost your ego. How utterly, excruciatingly, needlessly vitriolic and pointless.


Next time, don' t bother. It makes for boring reading and makes you look like a pedantic, rude (very rude, in fact) and altogether argumentative forum member.

Notice no 2 or 3 after Dead or Alive (highlighted in bold, just for you)? Pedantry clearly doesn' t become you. The entire (very small) paragraph was in reference to both series, not specific incarnations - as is this entire thread,

I saw that when you posted it. Hence why I stated –

>>If you believe that then you have a huge misconception about DOA

The misconception being that DOA has very little in common with VF when it comes to gameplay.

fool.

And thus it begins. How sad….

And having played both series to death, I can honestly say DOA is still very similar to VF.

Perhaps in your opinion, but you lack any real evidence to support it. I could see if you perhaps broke it down, but you didn’t. In fact, even in your second reply you didn’t even try. Your best attempt was PPPK and that wasn’t much evidence at all. See --

Combinations/moves/throws

Tekken didn' t feel the need to mercilessly rip off Virtua Fighter standard PPPK combos, but DOA did and in fact does even to this day. The whole series is riddled with plaigirism of the highest order.

Yet Tekken does so regardless and did so before DOA. The PPK dial-a-combo system was in fact the starting buttons for many ten hit chains in Tekken. So it’s unfair to say DOA and DOA alone ripped of PPK (or PK or PPPK) when in fact such existed in a little game called Tekken long before DOA came to be.

In fact, such simplified combos have existed since SF2 (albeit in a more primitive fashion).

LK LK LK anybody?

Characters

drunken fighter from DOA3 (don' t really recall his name - crap character) and Shun Di. Bit of a coincidence, no? Ok, I' ll let that one go.

And what does this have to do with gameplay?

That was in fact the argument, wasn’t it? Same physics system. Same combo system. Yet you post character stereotypes as your evidence?

Do they fight the same?

No.

Also

>> And having played both series to death,
>> drunken fighter from DOA3 (don' t really recall his name - crap character)

Sounds a bit contradictory.

End of point.

young chinese martial arts prodigy (Pai/Lei Fang). So even to this day, DOA is taking its cue from VF. Or stealing them, however you want to spin it. You could argue that these types of characters are fighting game staples (you could barely argue that), but given the level with which VF and DOA are already connected, it doesn' t bode well, does it?

Highly disciplined and generic martial arts character in a gi
Street Fighter Ryu / Akira Virtua Fighter / KOF Andy Board (minus gi)

DOA isn’t the only series sharing character designs.

And whether or not they' re interesting was all the paragraph was saying, you blithering idiot - I wasn' t passing it off as fact, as you' re so keen to do.

….. Dead or Alive is a shallow but pretty rip off of Virtua Fighter, utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations.

Sorry buddy, but you threw in DOA and VF having the same physics system. Like I said in my last reply, interesting is up to the gamer. However, you specifically state that DOA and VF have the same physics engine which is what I was focusing on.

Oh, and whilst you' re at it, take your head out your own arse and drop the condescending tone. Anyone would think you were itching to start an argument. Well guess what? You got one.

I didn’t get an argument, I got a very childish flaming.

You can be as pedantic as you like (though you' ve clearly not anticipated an equally pedantic and pointless reply), but the fact remains that DOA, in whatever incarnation, has its roots in VF - a fact I didn' t go into great detail with because the paragraph was hardly integral to the post. You' ve just picked it out show how knowledgable you are...even if knowledge of DOA is trivial, at best.

Roots and still being a complete VF rip-off are two different things. Remember, you did not specify a single DOA game. Instead you grouped the entire DOA series as a whole. Example:

Dead or Alive is a shallow but pretty rip off of Virtua Fighter, utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations. I felt like I' d seen everything DOA 3 had to offer in little under a couple of days.

It’s plain as day. You didn’t specify that DOA1 had roots in VF, you said “Dead or Alive”. If you meant to say otherwise you should have stated so, but as it stands you listed DOA as a whole.

The problem?

You didn’t post any evidence to back this up. No frame data. No breakdown of the physics. No hit property similarities. Nothing. All that was your opinion that you listed as fact.

I don' t know whether you' re an opportunistic nerd who' s absolutely dying to impart " knowledge" or just genuinely stupid for reading more into one small paragraph than it was even saying. Oh, and for future reference, arguments starting with " anyone can tell you" hold about as much credibility as a Johnny Cochran monologue, and alludes to someone touting opinion as gospel.

In short you don’t really have any counter-evidence.

I wouldn' t mind so much, but out of my fairly lengthy post you' ve picked the smallest paragraph to exercise your superiority (or given your bizarre and passionate love for DOA, perhaps inferiority?) complex and boost your ego. How utterly, excruciatingly, needlessly vitriolic and pointless.

Weird you would use the word “inferior” when I myself said:

>> VF4 is deeper than DOA3,

In my very last paragraph. Take it as you will, but I long ago recognized VF4 as being a superior game. An ego boost? Oh please -- I' m a little old for that.

Next time, don' t bother. It makes for boring reading and makes you look like a pedantic, rude (very rude, in fact) and altogether argumentative forum member.

The sad thing is that… well, you didn’t really debunk anything I said. Instead you spent your post taking cheap shots at me, calling me childish names and trying to belittle my intelligence. Did anywhere in my last reply did I flat out call you anything? If this is the type of attitude I’m going to receive then don’t bother responding. It’s obvious you didn’t want your opinion challenged and became pretty upset once it was.

Nowhere did you showcase any evidence of DOA having the same physics engine as VF. Nor did you showcase any evidence that the two games use the same fighting engine. I could care less about you not liking DOA, but if you post misinformation it’s fair game to be corrected.

Now good-bye

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

My favorite fighting series is Dead or Alive. The game has grown on me, and showed me that a beautiful game can be packed with alot of depth. Compared to other 3d fighters, I find Doa to be just as good or better. I appreciate how you cannot use the same 5+ safe moves and techniques over and over again. You have to work a little harder to get that win.

Is this the same VirtuaPAI of gamefaqs.com fame?

Is this the same VirtuaPAI of gamefaqs.com fame?

-Yes it is I. I wanted to see what this message board had to say about the Itagaki interview, and I found this thread. It seems like things never change no matter what board or site you go to

-Im bored, I can' t wait for DoaU...I need some competition

-Yes it is I.

**bows in honor**

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

No ego trips? Man, with that kind of sign-off, you could' ve fooled me...

utilising the same physics engine as VF minus the the capacity to string together interesting combinations

You wrote nearly half a page based on this one comment. Do you really have that much time on your hands? Get a job, or life, or something. I don' t see how you came to the conclusion that I was touting this as the gospel truth - it' s hardly emphasised, is it? I was partially right, but instead of saying that, you instead decided to " correct" me as if I was lying.

some of the worst efforts of this generation include Tekken 4

Quoted from myself...OMG! I didn' t say " In my opinion, some of the worst..." I must be touting opinion as fact! *awaits Lotussons pedantic reply*...



Do you actually see what I' m getting at here? Or do you want me to spell it out? In my first reply I felt the need to defend myself, but now I don' t so much because I realise now that you' re just pedantic. Not so much an insult, just an indication of your character, I suppose.



I' ve seen you participate in some rather nasty fights on this forum before and frankly, I' m not sure I can be bothered to perpetuate one with you. You didn' t need to call me anything to get my attention, you just needed to patronise me and talk down to me for seemingly no other reason than to piss me off. You' re surprised I replied with such vitriol? Jesus, talk about socially inept - your post was hardly polite. Rather than impart your wisdom you probably just got off on the prospect of correcting me.


Geek. Alert.


The fact you started this based on one ambiguous sentence says a lot more than I need to say. I said that this comment was ambiguous from the beginning, but you wouldn' t accept that. Your problem, not mine.


Though the problem was, there wasn' t actually much to correct in the first place because you just read too much into it. If you' re as old and wise as you say you are, you' d appreciate the need to acquaint yourself with new people in a polite and friendly manner.



At least Fathoms knows how to conduct himself in a debate, which gives me some hope for future posting on this forum.

No ego trips? Man, with that kind of sign-off, you could' ve fooled me...

Been doing it for years.

You wrote nearly half a page based on this one comment. Do you really have that much time on your hands? Get a job,

I have two jobs thank you.

I don' t see how you came to the conclusion that I was touting this as the gospel truth

If you’re not touting it as the gospel truth… then why did you defend your statement? Read your post again, there was no “IMO” tag placed within lines like –

“utilising the same physics engine as VF”
or
“The whole series is riddled with plaigirism of the highest order.”

Again, there are no IMO tags anywhere. The obvious conclusion was that you were touting those as facts when in fact they are not.

I was partially right, but instead of saying that, you instead decided to " correct" me as if I was lying.

Not lying, just wrong on many (not all) but many things.

Quoted from myself...OMG! I didn' t say " In my opinion, some of the worst..." I must be touting opinion as fact! *awaits Lotussons pedantic reply*...

Such bitterness young jedi. Anger can only lead to the dark side my child.

Do you actually see what I' m getting at here? Or do you want me to spell it out? In my first reply I felt the need to defend myself, but now I don' t so much because I realise now that you' re just pedantic.

Now dude, I really don’t feel the need to boast. Boast about what? That you said something wrong and I corrected it? Sorry dude, that’s just a wee bit childish. Even more childish than your current replies.

Not so much an insult, just an indication of your character, I suppose.

I like to correct misinformation when I can. That’s all I can say. You don’t like being corrected -- too bad.

I' ve seen you participate in some rather nasty fights on this forum before and frankly, I' m not sure I can be bothered to perpetuate one with you.

Then don’t. You’re the one flaming here, not me. I simple wanted to correct your incorrect statements on the DOA series. Everything else going on in this thread is below me. I don’t participate in flame wars.

You didn' t need to call me anything to get my attention, you just needed to patronise me and talk down to me for seemingly no other reason than to piss me off.

Perhaps that is how you took it. Boo-hoo….

You' re surprised I replied with such vitriol?

Even more amazed by the fact that you would do it twice….

Jesus, talk about socially inept - your post was hardly polite.

Sorry, I’m not the one name calling here. You have little room to talk about socially inept. If there was a handle you have long since flown off it.

Rather than impart your wisdom you probably just got off on the prospect of correcting me.

Like I said, I correct misinformation when I can. I’ve done it before. Chances are I’ll do it again.

Geek. Alert.

So sad….

The fact you started this based on one ambiguous sentence says a lot more than I need to say. I said that this comment was ambiguous from the beginning, but you wouldn' t accept that. Your problem, not mine.

Um… your sentence was far from ambiguous as I’ve pointed out several times now. And what do you mean by “all this”, eh? Last time I checked this argument is mostly just you flaming me. I have no desire to return the favor.

If you' re as old and wise as you say you are, you' d appreciate the need to acquaint yourself with new people in a polite and friendly manner.

BWAH HAHAHAHAHAH

That was the best part, seriously.

At least Fathoms knows how to conduct himself in a debate, which gives me some hope for future posting on this forum

Oh please…. me and Fathoms go WAY back. And last time I checked Fathoms was giving much harder then he was receiving when we last talked.

So now the question is, do you or do you not have any facts to back up what you said about DOA? Anything at all? Any hardcore linkable evidence that we can see and shut everyone up? I mean, if I' m wrong, I' m wrong. End of story. I won' t waste several replies complaining about the other guy. Too childish.

You can flame me again if you want, say this say that, but dude, I really don’t have any more spare time to donate to nothing.

And I seriously mean that. If you' re going to waste another post bad-mouthing me, go ahead. Soon you' ll realize that no one cares.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One